An open community 
of Macintosh users,
for Macintosh users.

FineTunedMac Dashboard widget now available! Download Here

Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 5 of 5 1 2 3 4 5
Re: New Mac every thing slower
joemikeb #62442 08/29/22 08:58 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
kevs Offline OP
OP Offline

Joined: Dec 2009
Joe, thanks.

Etra, malware, like me, you have no idea what he is talking about in that Etra will tell you if you have Malware. No real obvious check..
(ok I use Malwarebytes, but would be nice since etra brings it up to know if there really)



Again, would you say that Etrecheck Pro, with the Power User then covers virtually everything System monitor plus/ Mac Power Monitor does? And maybe then those latter ones are not needed at all?



Finally, ok I have 3/4 TB on my 1TB SSD empty. Am I correct, I think decade ago people put data on Mac HD, but then 5 years ago the prevailing wisdom when came out with first internals SSD (only 500GB), was to not put important date on Mac HD, right? But now that you can get 1TB and more and with power of M1 it's gone back to yes go ahead and put you most important data on Mac HD since larger and internal, SSD, and M1?


Honestly, though I've testing opening big files in Photoshop, word , excel files on the internal SSD, VS. external mechanical, HD, and still don't see much of a difference. And I still don't think putting this data on the SSD internal will, solve this new M1 beachball issue. Ultimately we cannot find a villian or culprit for this.... It just is.. and annoying, goes away for couple days, but then back.. crazy. Who would think buy new apple computer and more beachballs than old computer.... baffling.... But done key things: Put each external in it's up port, trimmed apps, isolated the USB 2 to just the hub with mouse etc...etc, etc, no real culprit.. yet.

Re: New Mac every thing slower
kevs #62445 08/29/22 10:07 PM
Joined: Aug 2009
Likes: 7
Moderator
Offline
Moderator

Joined: Aug 2009
Likes: 7
Originally Posted by kevs
Etra, malware, like me, you have no idea what he is talking about in that Etra will tell you if you have Malware. No real obvious check..
(ok I use Malwarebytes, but would be nice since etra brings it up to know if there really)

Adding anti-malware software to macOS is akin to "Carrying Coal to Newcastle" because of Apple's Platform Security bit I run MalwareBytes too.

Originally Posted by keys
Again, would you say that Etrecheck Pro, with the Power User then covers virtually everything System monitor plus/ Mac Power Monitor does? And maybe then those latter ones are not needed at all?

I don't use Mac Power Monitor, System Monitor, or Activity Monitor often, maybe once every six months or so, but they each tell a slightly different story and may contribute a few breadcrumbs along the trail to solving a riddle. But Etrecheck tells a far more fulsome story with more details about other topics. If I had to make a choice of one of the four, it would be Etrecheck. If I had to choose between Activity Monitor and System Monitor, it would be tossup. System Monitor gives more overall system information, but Activity Monitor identifies specific tasks. (Did I waffle enough on that answer to confuse you?)

Originally Posted by keys
Finally, ok I have 3/4 TB on my 1TB SSD empty. Am I correct, I think decade ago people put data on Mac HD, but then 5 years ago the prevailing wisdom when came out with first internals SSD (only 500GB), was to not put important date on Mac HD, right? But now that you can get 1TB and more and with power of M1 it's gone back to yes go ahead and put you most important data on Mac HD since larger and internal, SSD, and M1?

You are talking about hardware and OS that are approaching senility. I haven't got time to go into the hundreds (thousands?) of changes that make that advice passé but a priniciple change lies in swap files and where they are located. We used to avoid putting too much on the internal drive because that is where the swap files are located. APFS, compressed memory, SSDs, and virtual memory management combine to render that advice antiquated and no longer advised. For one thing, the swapfiles now have their own dedicated volume on the internal drive, and for another they are not required as often. In fact, there are many features in Catalina, Monterey, and Ventura that have been carefully optimized with the assumption the user data files will be on the internal SSD.

Originally Posted by keys
Honestly, though I've testing opening big files in Photoshop, word , excel files on the internal SSD, VS. external mechanical, HD, and still don't see much of a difference. And I still don't think putting this data on the SSD internal will, solve this new M1 beachball issue. Ultimately we cannot find a villian or culprit for this.... It just is.. and annoying, goes away for couple days, but then back.. crazy. Who would think buy new apple computer and more beachballs than old computer.... baffling.... But done key things: Put each external in it's up port, trimmed apps, isolated the USB 2 to just the hub with mouse etc...etc, etc, no real culprit.. yet.

Your internal drive is 40 to 50 times faster than your external drives, but unless your tasks are close to being I/O bound you are unlikely to be aware of the difference. As for me, the unexpected drive disconnections are an annoyance I want to eliminate. So, I am proceeding with my plans to reconfigure my USB drive connections. I just found the drive that is slowing that entire USB network to USB 2.0 speeds. Now where do I put it because it is one of my Time Machine drives. (I may end up investing in a new enclosure for the drive, but that same enclosure has my only remaining optical drive. That seemed like such a good idea five or six years ago. crazy

Last edited by joemikeb; 08/29/22 10:09 PM. Reason: grammar

"Sacred cows make the best hamburger"

- Mark Twain
Re: New Mac every thing slower
joemikeb #62447 08/30/22 12:13 AM
Joined: Dec 2009
kevs Offline OP
OP Offline

Joined: Dec 2009
"Adding anti-malware software"

Thanks JOe, not implying, that, I don't even have the paid malware plus, just saying that Etra claims to handle this , and I cannot find that , can you? Not big issue.

OK confirm: "We used to avoid putting too much on the internal drive"

Was not aware of that change until, today! With you confirming it, but was kind of deducing that in last few days. There is no announcement online "hey better now to keep your data on the internals SSD now... as you have been told not to do for last 10 years...

Ironically, I paid the extra $200 for a 1TB internal because I was using Parallels which huge; which discovered wont work anymore with old copy of Dreamweaver so in short, I have 750GB of free internal!

"you are unlikely to be aware of the difference"... I would guess that is true, In fact today, just clicking a test file I put in internal, got that little short beachball. And as mentioned the little beachballing comes up on icloud finder.. So maybe don't bother filling up that 750GB? Opinion?

My main word/ excel data folder (kevs documents) etc is 125GB I could put it in there, but maybe not even bother, ?

And the important images work on folder is no 400GB, (and growing) I could "squeeze it in too" , but would you bother?.. or just leave them on the massive new 8TB external?

Re: New Mac every thing slower
kevs #62449 08/30/22 07:03 PM
Joined: Aug 2009
Likes: 7
Moderator
Offline
Moderator

Joined: Aug 2009
Likes: 7
Originally Posted by kevs
"Adding anti-malware software"

Thanks JOe, not implying, that, I don't even have the paid malware plus, just saying that Etra claims to handle this , and I cannot find that , can you? Not big issue.

This is all I could find in Etrecheck,

Originally Posted by keys
OK confirm: "We used to avoid putting too much on the internal drive"

Was not aware of that change until, today! With you confirming it, but was kind of deducing that in last few days. There is no announcement online "hey better now to keep your data on the internals SSD now... as you have been told not to do for last 10 years...

[quote=keys]Ironically, I paid the extra $200 for a 1TB internal because I was using Parallels which huge; which discovered wont work anymore with old copy of Dreamweaver so in short, I have 750GB of free internal!

Computers, in general, are continuously evolving, and keeping up with the latest recommendations nearly a full-time job. Apple products evolve more and faster than most, and the last four years have seen more highly significant under the hood changes than at any time since the conversion from OS 9 to OS X. Utilities that were standard for nearly twenty years are struggling to justify their existence, routine maintenance tasks we used to preform religiously are no longer needed and some may be harmful. What we "see" in Finder and other tools may appear similar to what we are used to, but the physical reality is dramatically different. If you have been keeping up to date the steps are relatively easy, but if you fall behind they become more like mountains than steps.

Originally Posted by keys
"you are unlikely to be aware of the difference"... I would guess that is true, In fact today, just clicking a test file I put in internal, got that little short beachball. And as mentioned the little beachballing comes up on icloud finder.. So maybe don't bother filling up that 750GB? Opinion?

My main word/ excel data folder (kevs documents) etc is 125GB I could put it in there, but maybe not even bother, ?

And the important images work on folder is no 400GB, (and growing) I could "squeeze it in too" , but would you bother?.. or just leave them on the massive new 8TB external?

I take maximum advantage of Apple's various features for several reasons. For example: I have most of my critical files in my Documents folder and synchronized between my computer and iCloud Drive. The Documents folder is backed up to two Time Machine Drives. Your disaster recovery drive is stored in a bank vault and updated every few months. Mine is stored on one or more Apple server farms and is updated every several seconds, and in addition, all of my documents are available to me at any time on, my Studio desktop system, my Mac mini server, my iPhone, my iPad, even a public computer if all else fails. I could go on at length about the advantages of having your Documents & Desktop folders backed up to the iCloud Drive and Keeping your data files and folders there, but hopefully, you get the idea.

The beach ball "on iCloud Finder..." is the result of the inescapable delay created by your internet connection to the iCloud drive and independent of any I/O issues with local drives.

Where you keep your Photo and Music Libraries is a personal choice, and if the option is enabled, they too can be on iCloud as well.

DOPE SLAP:
While researching a new enclosure for my backup drive. IO had a flash of insight.
  1. The drive in most enclosures connect to the enclosure using a SATA port.
  2. SATA ports come in three common speeds 1.5Gbps, 3Gbps, and 6Gbps burst speeds.
  3. The SATA adapter is then connected to a USB connector (both may be on the same chip).
  4. Most current HDDs are 6G SATA
  5. If you have an enclosure with a USB 3.1 Gen 2 (10Gbps) connection, the maximum sustained throughput from the drive and enclosure is limited to 6Gbps by the SATA connection on the drive. (There may be faster bursts of data thanks to the memory buffer on the drive).
  6. SSDs with SATA connectors and internal SATA HDDs are subject to the same limits.
  7. SSDs with NVME connectors are eight or more times faster.


"Sacred cows make the best hamburger"

- Mark Twain
Re: New Mac every thing slower
joemikeb #62450 08/30/22 11:54 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
kevs Offline OP
OP Offline

Joined: Dec 2009
Thanks JOe,

I had a VERY VERY bad experience with icloud messing up timestamps and spent of time with apple tech, hence, never again use icloud for except bare minimum.
(granted if never had that experience I'd be gung ho) If have it once, your done with icloud forever trust me... Hours and Hours of grief.... BTW remember I stilll have Crashplan, so I had it all in some lcoud.. and the Bank, is just if robbery, so have BAse replacement...... Cloud would take months to download 4 TB.

Great post on that paragraph about computers evolving.

Ok so your answer is get as much in the internal SSD as you can? Darn, had I known this month ago I would have ordered a 2TB internal, Did not know, and of COUrse, of course, for first time ever buying a new Mac -- you CANNOT UPGRADE. funny right?

OH well.

"The beach ball "on iCloud Finder..." is the result of the inescapable delay created by your internet connection to the iCloud drive and independent of any I/O issues with local drives.
Question on that one Joe: But that did not happen ever in 6 years on the imac 27"..

Big new info:

Today had totally unrelated meeting with expert Photoshop printing and mentioned the M1 Beachball, and he asked, "Did you use migration assistant?"

He said he had all same crazy things happen with Photoshop and more, migrating over. He said tons of stuff wrecks havoc bringing over from Intel to Silicon and he gets many calls from others saying same thing. Recommendation was same as J, Etracheck: Clean install.

IN short nothing else really fixes the beachball.... JUst clear, migrating from INtel to M1.. big issues. Funny how nothing online or no Apple tech know about that... or mention it much.

That said: in my mind, if do it: then just screenshot every app and every setting I've made, ir workspace, docks etc etc etc, and then don't bring anything over at all, which is SO tempting to do, I can't even fathom amount of stuff right now that would have to be redone. But you agree, the key if do that is to RECREATE everything one keystroke at a time. The one thing kill me is Word Style I have. Have not done those in years. Would not even know how. ... Macros etc....And workspaces, and accounts.. etc etc... ANY other warnings on that? But you agree if do it, don't give into temptatioin to drag over a preference or some folder with old workspace, styles , macro, keyboard shortcut... redo it all.

Re: New Mac every thing slower
kevs #62452 08/31/22 03:51 PM
Joined: Aug 2009
Likes: 7
Moderator
Offline
Moderator

Joined: Aug 2009
Likes: 7
Originally Posted by kevs
"The beach ball "on iCloud Finder..." is the result of the inescapable delay created by your internet connection to the iCloud drive and independent of any I/O issues with local drives.
Question on that one Joe: But that did not happen ever in 6 years on the imac 27"..

Probably because the iMac was too slow to be aware of the delay.

Originally Posted by keys
Today had totally unrelated meeting with expert Photoshop printing and mentioned the M1 Beachball, and he asked, "Did you use migration assistant?"

He said he had all same crazy things happen with Photoshop and more, migrating over. He said tons of stuff wrecks havoc bringing over from Intel to Silicon and he gets many calls from others saying same thing. Recommendation was same as J, Etracheck: Clean install.

IN short nothing else really fixes the beachball.... JUst clear, migrating from INtel to M1.. big issues. Funny how nothing online or no Apple tech know about that... or mention it much.

All I can say is I have migrated from Intel to M1 using migration assistant to retrieve the data from a clone volume, and another time from Time Machine and I did not encounter anything like you and he describe.

Originally Posted by keys
That said: in my mind, if do it: then just screenshot every app and every setting I've made, ir workspace, docks etc etc etc, and then don't bring anything over at all, which is SO tempting to do, I can't even fathom amount of stuff right now that would have to be redone. But you agree, the key if do that is to RECREATE everything one keystroke at a time. The one thing kill me is Word Style I have. Have not done those in years. Would not even know how. ... Macros etc....And workspaces, and accounts.. etc etc... ANY other warnings on that? But you agree if do it, don't give into temptatioin to drag over a preference or some folder with old workspace, styles , macro, keyboard shortcut... redo it all.

I have installed, upgraded, reinstalled, numerous times including installing and re-installing over an existing system, nuke & pave installs using Migration Assistant to recover data from another computer, a data volume clone, and Time Machine backups. In one case my data recovery consisted solely of setting up the user account and turning on iCloud sharing. Other than a day or so of slow running while the system sorted everything out and the occasional incompatible app, I have never had a problem such as you describe. Much of my success I ascribe to having all my settings, passwords, Libraries, etc synched with iCloud.

If your system is full of antiquated detritus, a rebuild such as you describe might be an alternative, but the 500+ unique passwords in my keychain are enough to make that alternative very unattractive. (I do clean out the keychain regularly to keep it to a manageable size.)


"Sacred cows make the best hamburger"

- Mark Twain
Re: New Mac every thing slower
joemikeb #62456 08/31/22 07:03 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
kevs Offline OP
OP Offline

Joined: Dec 2009
Thanks Joe, well this guy specialist in Photoshop printing etc, and he said he had all sorts of problems, (maybe not the beachball , but other things from using migration assistant, and heard from many others.. issue being Intel to M1..)

My beachball issue, not long 1 min ones you had day... just 10 sec, but it is everyday, so might be worth it to do a clean wipe and manually add everything back slowly over while.. see how goes. You concur? Especially since, don't think ever done it since my first Mac G4 got in 1998.. my guess. Kind of sad, as working fine with the older 6 year old 27", but alas... maybe it is M1 system..

That said, so preparing: if in my shoes, would you recreate all preferences, or some so tedious you might try to bring over on case by case, for example Mail: with the accounts and the rules is nasty one to redo..

Passwords.... go over that...keychain... besides internet, what are passwords, I've taken for granted on keychain for so long, might not even be aware of them any more.. have few examples of what keychain is saving me time on my mac (again beside internet sites) . And if I wanted to manually bring over later keychain.. how to do.. but Keychain, would probably be a good not not to bring over right.. just cleanse it out, and rebuild it slowly over time?

Contacts, and many other icloud thing, no worry, all in cloud. But lot other little thing oh well....

As for discussion in internal SSD, being ok now for Data, you agree, I should have gotten then 2TB on internal... of course, not too late, have wait the 5-6 years until buy next machine..

Re: New Mac every thing slower
kevs #62478 09/02/22 05:27 PM
Joined: Aug 2009
Likes: 7
Moderator
Offline
Moderator

Joined: Aug 2009
Likes: 7
Originally Posted by kevs
That said, so preparing: if in my shoes, would you recreate all preferences, or some so tedious you might try to bring over on case by case, for example Mail: with the accounts and the rules is nasty one to redo..

Passwords.... go over that...keychain... besides internet, what are passwords, I've taken for granted on keychain for so long, might not even be aware of them any more.. have few examples of what keychain is saving me time on my mac (again beside internet sites) . And if I wanted to manually bring over later keychain.. how to do.. but Keychain, would probably be a good not not to bring over right.. just cleanse it out, and rebuild it slowly over time?

Contacts, and many other icloud thing, no worry, all in cloud. But lot other little thing oh well....

I would not attempt rebuilding all of that from scratch unless there were no other alternatives.

FYI: I previously reported unexpected disconnects on an external HD that reported itself as being USB 2.0. I spent $30 on a new USB 3.1 enclosure and less than five minutes, switching the drive mechanism to the new enclosure, and the disconnects are gone and the USB network now reports that it is USB 3.0 (there are other USB 3.0 devices on that network).

Originally Posted by keys
As for discussion in internal SSD, being ok now for Data, you agree, I should have gotten then 2TB on internal... of course, not too late, have wait the 5-6 years until buy next machine..

You have a lot of free disk space on your internal SSD and I have no idea how much stored on your external drive, but I am not sure I would agree you should have gotten a 2TB drive. If you would be willing to use the iCloud Drive, as intended, and possibly some judicious re-arranging of where what is stored, 1TB is probably adequate.


"Sacred cows make the best hamburger"

- Mark Twain
Re: New Mac every thing slower
joemikeb #62480 09/02/22 06:37 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
kevs Offline OP
OP Offline

Joined: Dec 2009
Thanks Joe, the enclosure stuff bit over my head, but I trust you did well with it.

Yesterday, I created a new MAc HD test volume (ie a test clean install) and booted into it, going great but at about an hour got beachball on the older external, (even though that external still test great in drive X).

Today, my Mac HD, is doing well. So this beachball issue intermittent.. Few days fine, then comes back..

But maybe the clean install wont help? Who knows have to test more which might do...

Re: New Mac every thing slower
kevs #62481 09/02/22 10:28 PM
Joined: Aug 2009
Likes: 7
Moderator
Offline
Moderator

Joined: Aug 2009
Likes: 7
Originally Posted by kevs
Thanks Joe, the enclosure stuff bit over my head, but I trust you did well with it.

Assuming the drive has a SATA connection to the enclosure, it can communicate to the enclosure at 1.5, 3, or 6 Gbps. The enclosure, in turn, has a USB 2.0 external connection which limits the throughput to the computer to 480 Mbps. So, even if the drive in the enclosure is SATA 1 (1.5 Gbps) the USB port on the enclosure limits the throughput to roughly 1/3 of what the drive mechanism is capable of. By swapping the drive to an enclosure with a USB 3.1 port effectively triples the throughput of the drive and enclosure pair. In my case, the drive is SATA 3 (6 Gbps) so my throughput went from 480 Mbps to 5Gbps, roughly a 10x improvement.

Originally Posted by keys
Yesterday, I created a new MAc HD test volume (ie a test clean install) and booted into it, going great but at about an hour got beachball on the older external, (even though that external still test great in drive X).

Your test is likely invalid because the internal drive is so much slower than even a Thunderbolt connected SSD it will distort the results. (I found that out the hard way, in case you are wondering.)

Originally Posted by keys
Today, my Mac HD, is doing well. So this beachball issue intermittent.. Few days fine, then comes back..

Which makes me suspicious that occurs when multiple tasks are accessing that same USB port on your Mac mini simultaneously, or that your USB 2.0 drive is slowing the entire USB network through the port. The most likely candidate would be Time Machine.

Originally Posted by keys
But maybe the clean install wont help? Who knows have to test more which might do...

:shrug:


"Sacred cows make the best hamburger"

- Mark Twain
Re: New Mac every thing slower
joemikeb #62482 09/02/22 11:14 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
kevs Offline OP
OP Offline

Joined: Dec 2009
Thanks Joe, "Your test is likely invalid because the internal drive "

But Joe, the test Mac HD is not essentially clean install; it is a clean install! Since I have to much space, I'm able to create a Mac HD clean install, while not erasing anything. (ie while being able to go back later to the normal Mac HD which got the migration from the 27")

So remember, I don't have a USB 2.0 drive — even the 5 years old Seagate is USB.. The 10 port hus is also USB 3, Only USB 2 is mouse, card reader etc.

TM could be the cause: But I did not have all beachballing on 27" and had TM going...

BTW Joe, I do notice that older Seagate does seem to beachball a bit more than the other drives, just by clicking on it even though is get 99% oten in Drive X. Weather it's on its "own netword" ie plugged in back of the machine or the hub. Now if something on it, "own network" as you say, that should not effect anything else right.

Also noticed today a beachball a bit while in Excel, which I would not see on the 27" on Excel.

Last edited by kevs; 09/02/22 11:26 PM.
Page 5 of 5 1 2 3 4 5

Moderated by  alternaut, dianne, MacManiac 

Link Copied to Clipboard
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.4
(Release build 20200307)
Responsive Width:

PHP: 7.4.25 Page Time: 0.031s Queries: 38 (0.022s) Memory: 0.6584 MB (Peak: 0.7922 MB) Data Comp: Zlib Server Time: 2022-09-28 12:03:19 UTC
Valid HTML 5 and Valid CSS