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Possible Survey?
#56764 11/03/20 09:00 PM
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On another Mac discussion board, one individual stated that only about 10% of Mac users use SuperDuper! and Carbon Copy Cloner combined. I disagreed with that, and have started a poll there to get some valid numbers. The choices are Time Machine, SuperDuper!, Carbon Copy Cloner, Something Else, or None (do not do backups).

I am wondering if such a poll has ever been done here. If it has, can someone point me to the results? If not, would it be beneficial to to conduct one?

Last edited by MartyByrde; 11/03/20 09:22 PM.
Re: Possible Survey?
MartyByrde #56765 11/03/20 10:56 PM
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Interesting idea. For the record, I use Time Machine and CCC backups. I have SD (and used it exclusively for cloning at one time) but I have come to prefer CCC (nothing against SD, however).


Jon

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Re: Possible Survey?
jchuzi #56766 11/03/20 11:02 PM
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Originally Posted by jchuzi
....I use Time Machine and CCC backups. I have SD (and used it exclusively for cloning at one time) but I have come to prefer CCC (nothing against SD, however).
Which would be my reply, exactly...although I have likely not been a CCC user as long as you. Only the past year or so for me.


ryck

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Re: Possible Survey?
jchuzi #56767 11/03/20 11:33 PM
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Originally Posted by jchuzi
Interesting idea. For the record, I use Time Machine and CCC backups. I have SD (and used it exclusively for cloning at one time) but I have come to prefer CCC (nothing against SD, however).

Totally agree about both SD and CCC. One cannot go wrong with either one. And while I use SD, I always give positive accolades to CCC, even though I've never used it.

If I decide to start such a survey, can someone let me know how to do that here, so that the votes are counted correctly (no mail in ballots allowed!)?

Last edited by MartyByrde; 11/03/20 11:34 PM.
Re: Possible Survey?
MartyByrde #56768 11/04/20 12:57 AM
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I guess that I opted for early voting! grin


Jon

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Re: Possible Survey?
MartyByrde #56769 11/04/20 01:46 AM
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Originally Posted by MartyByrde
On another Mac discussion board, one individual stated that only about 10% of Mac users use SuperDuper! and Carbon Copy Cloner combined.
I don't think a survey of FTM responders will be particularly meaningful, because
  • the body of Mac users it would engage is pretty minimal, and because
  • the technical competence of the responding population would likely far surpass that of the general body of Mac users and lead to skewed results.


(Surveys may be started only by mods.)


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Re: Possible Survey?
jchuzi #56770 11/04/20 10:12 AM
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Functionality and GUI aside, let's not forget that SD!'s got a free mode and CCC hasn't.


The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire
Re: Possible Survey?
artie505 #56771 11/04/20 08:52 PM
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Originally Posted by artie505
Originally Posted by MartyByrde
On another Mac discussion board, one individual stated that only about 10% of Mac users use SuperDuper! and Carbon Copy Cloner combined.
I don't think a survey of FTM responders will be particularly meaningful, because
  • the body of Mac users it would engage is pretty minimal, and because
  • the technical competence of the responding population would likely far surpass that of the general body of Mac users and lead to skewed results.


(Surveys may be started only by mods.)

That's too bad. On the other site, the folks are a "mixed" bag in terms of technical competence. So far I have received 33 responses (including mine), which is not bad. I was planning on posting the results here, if folks want to see them.

Last edited by MartyByrde; 11/04/20 08:57 PM.
Re: Possible Survey?
artie505 #56772 11/04/20 08:55 PM
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Originally Posted by artie505
Functionality and GUI aside, let's not forget that SD!'s got a free mode and CCC hasn't.

Yes, that is certainly accurate! But I think SD's paid mode has a few enhancements, although I don't know what they are. Also, after using it or free for 1 year, I paid Shirt Pocket Software for SD, and did not mind at all (upgrades/updates are still free), as it is a critical program. And Dave Nanian is excellent!

Re: Possible Survey?
MartyByrde #56773 11/04/20 10:04 PM
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Dave Nanian is, indeed, excellent. As I recall, the major difference between the free and paid versions is that the paid version allows "smart" (incremental) updates; the free version requires a complete clone, which takes significantly longer.


Jon

macOS 10.15.7, iMac Retina 5K 27-inch, late 2014, 3.5 GHz Intel Core i5, 1 TB fusion drive, 16 GB RAM, Epson SureColor P600, Photoshop CC, Lightroom CC, MS Office 365
Re: Possible Survey?
jchuzi #56781 11/05/20 06:24 PM
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Originally Posted by jchuzi
Dave Nanian is, indeed, excellent. As I recall, the major difference between the free and paid versions is that the paid version allows "smart" (incremental) updates; the free version requires a complete clone, which takes significantly longer.

That sounds about right. But I always do a complete copy/clone for both of my Macs (2 copies each to two separate external SSDs).

Also, on that other site, with 50 ballots cast (no write ins or mailed in!), it's 50% for Time Machine, and 50% for SuperDuper! and Carbon Copy Cloner combined.

Last edited by MartyByrde; 11/05/20 06:27 PM.
Re: Possible Survey?
MartyByrde #56797 11/06/20 06:49 PM
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Folks, I can use some help. If you were to guess/estimate the percentage of Mac users who use either SuperDuper! or Carbon Copy Cloner for their backup tasks, what would that be? The more responses the better.

Re: Possible Survey?
MartyByrde #56798 11/06/20 07:16 PM
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Keeping in mind that most of us here are atypical......

I'm going to estimate that less than 20% of the TYPICAL of MacOS users are actually performing ANY backups at all! For those in my experience who come from the Windows world to the MacOS (most of them grudgingly), the Time Machine function is often not even recognized as an option!

....and for those long-time MacOS users who know about Time Machine, I'm going to estimate that only 50% are actually using it!

As to buying a third-party backup solution....I would estimate that less than 25% of ALL MacOS users who backup regularly fall into this category.

Color me a pessimist if you like.....


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Re: Possible Survey?
MacManiac #56799 11/06/20 08:17 PM
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Originally Posted by MacManiac
Keeping in mind that most of us here are atypical......

I'm going to estimate that less than 20% of the TYPICAL of MacOS users are actually performing ANY backups at all! For those in my experience who come from the Windows world to the MacOS (most of them grudgingly), the Time Machine function is often not even recognized as an option!

....and for those long-time MacOS users who know about Time Machine, I'm going to estimate that only 50% are actually using it!

As to buying a third-party backup solution....I would estimate that less than 25% of ALL MacOS users who backup regularly fall into this category.

Color me a pessimist if you like.....

Thanks for that perspective. On the other site where I have put together the poll, not a single response for "None - do not perform backups". Not really expecting any, as such folks do not want to admit to it.

As for the "less than 25%" you mentioned, SuperDuper! is actually free (as long as you are satisfied with its basic functionality). But possibly most folks are not aware of that.

Also, it seems that a good portion (maybe somewhat well over 50%) of individuals insist on using Apple software, no matter what other excellent products are available, and thus the high percentage for Time Machine.

Last edited by MartyByrde; 11/06/20 08:18 PM.
Re: Possible Survey?
MartyByrde #56800 11/06/20 10:32 PM
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Originally Posted by MartyByrde
Thanks for that perspective. On the other site where I have put together the poll, not a single response for "None - do not perform backups". Not really expecting any, as such folks do not want to admit to it.

As for the "less than 25%" you mentioned, SuperDuper! is actually free (as long as you are satisfied with its basic functionality). But possibly most folks are not aware of that.

Also, it seems that a good portion (maybe somewhat well over 50%) of individuals insist on using Apple software, no matter what other excellent products are available, and thus the high percentage for Time Machine.
  1. Of the many Mac users I know, including members of my family, I am the only one who is even vaguely aware there are such things as user support forums, much less log onto one.
  2. From many years of using and moderating various support forums, I'm convinced that of the relative few who are aware of such things the vast majority only visit a forum if and when they have a problem. Even Apple's own Discussions are heavily biased by that fact and they are a LOT bigger and a LOT better known.
  3. From this same several years experience I am convinced that habitués of forums are heavily influenced by the opinions of a relatively few "power posters" (my term 😉) and the most highly recommended solution for any given task can vary significantly from forum to forum.
  4. Taking a survey of the habitués of any given forum may be representative of that forum, but is a self-selected, sample of a self-selected sample and does not in any way represent a valid cross section of the general population.
  5. Without knowing the number of people who logged onto the forum while the survey was being conducted it is impossible to determine if there were sufficient responses to constitute a statistically valid sample of even that population.
  6. I provide technical support to fifteen or so Mac using friends and family members scattered from Florida to California and of that number only four do any sort of regular backup, in spite of my constant nagging (I know I am the one who will end up having to pick up the pieces). One is my wife (I didn't give her a choice); another is a former son-in-law who realized the necessity after his hard drive crashed and he lost three years of business records a week before he was to turn them over to his tax preparer, one is a friend who gave in to my preaching on the subject, and the fourth a minister friend that I bought and installed the drive for after she accidentally erased two years of her sermon files. None of the rest do any backups at all.
  7. It is vastly easier to convince the TYPICAL user to plug in an external drive click one option in system preferences, select the drive and forget it; than it is to get them to select, purchase, install, configure, and run CCC or SD on any sort of a regular basis.
  8. Time Machine's ability to resurrect versions of the same file from multiple points in time cannot be readily recreated using CCC or SD. (Albeit CCC's ability to manage and recover from APFS snapshots is workable over the short term.)
  9. Time Machine and CCC/SD have their legitimate uses, but they are not equivalent, especially in a "production' environment.


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Re: Possible Survey?
MartyByrde #56801 11/06/20 10:42 PM
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Yeah, my biased response comes from an admittedly smaller sampling of friends / relatives / neighbors / etc. that represent a pretty broad spectrum of experience and comfort within the personal computing world....ranging from my brother who is an admitted Windows advocate, grudgingly drawn into the MacOS world and slowly discovering that he no longer needs to dis-assemble and re-assemble his shovel prior to digging any further in the ditch (an allegory) to my now deceased and sorely missed mother in law with whom I had MANY long and interesting Skype / FaceTime troubleshooting sessions which always required me to direct her eyes either to the keyboard or to the screen when getting her to perform an input or describe what is being shown.

For my Mom-in-Law, it was a simple thing to configure Time Machine to use the handy external USB drive which I mailed to her for backup.....for my Brother, it was less simple in that he insisted on buying a third-party NAS which had MANY configuration options to work through before he finally got it to marry with Time Machine - and then he was AMAZED to find out how seamless and easy it really was despite his attempt to make it "Windows normal"! (I still get calls from my brother complaining about how un-Android his new iPhone is and how difficult it is to make it perform as he expects it to.....) blush


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Re: Possible Survey?
MacManiac #56802 11/07/20 05:39 AM
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Thanks everyone for the thoughtful and well-stated responses. I guess I was hoping for too much, but it was kind of a shot in the dark.


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