An open community 
of Macintosh users,
for Macintosh users.

FineTunedMac Dashboard widget now available! Download Here

Topic Options
#50488 - 11/16/18 01:51 AM Translation please!
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
I tried to send an email to a developer to whom I've sent countless previous emails, and it bounced with this message. (I tried sending from two different Yahoo email accounts.)

Emails sent to myself at Yahoo and to my daughters at Gmail went through.

Who's doing what to my emails?

Thanks.
_________________________
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

Top
#50494 - 11/16/18 09:23 AM Re: Translation please! [Re: artie505]
Ira L Offline


Registered: 08/13/09
Loc: California
If I were to make up an explanation it would center around the fact that the recipient is a German ISP. The EU has recently imposed some stringent privacy measures and maybe your ISP, while not blacklisted, has yet to meet the foreign standards?
Just a guess. crazy
_________________________
On a Mac since 1984.
Currently: 27" iMacs, Macbook Air, macOS 10.14.x,; iPhones, iPods and iPads galore!

Top
#50497 - 11/16/18 09:48 AM Re: Translation please! [Re: Ira L]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Thanks for the guess.

Based on it, I sent a test email to a .de email address, and it didn't bounce.

I'm not sure if the problem lies with the German ISP or AOL, nor do I even fully understand what the problem is. confused
_________________________
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

Top
#50498 - 11/16/18 11:00 AM Re: Translation please! [Re: artie505]
joemikeb Online
Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas
Being a German email address is not the issue. The issue is that somewhere in its travels it appears that the sending SMTP server was retransmitted by another SMTP server so the sending SMTP server indicated in the outer wrapper is different from the source SMTP server in the message header. Messages are often forwarded through two or more SMTP servers so their may be multiple transmission layers each referencing a different forwarding server. Spend some time looking at the RAW headers and you can get dizzy trying to trace the route taken from server to server.

In this case it would appear that the receiving POP/IMAP server in Germany found one of the links suspect and their policy (implementation) of the tightened EU and German regulations, rejected the message. The policy under which the message was rejected is unique to the receiving POP/IMAP server so particularly in light of the new rules there is a possibility of legitimate traffic being rejected.

Therefore the problem is not in your computer it is most likely in the receiving POP/IMAP server's policy mechanism or it could be a failure on the part of some SMTP server in the chain to notify the internet of a new or different server to server linkage. This will get fixed, but in the meantime you may have to use another email provider to send messages to this address.

I have seen a similar case recently on another forum so yours is a rare but not unique situation. This is reminiscent of a period probably 30 or more years ago when SPAM was first becoming a problem and the U. S. government put the onus on the ISPs to control the explosion of SPAM that was estimated to be eating up to 60 0r 70% of internet bandwidth of the time. It was relatively easy to get your personal email address on a list of ill-behaved email senders and could take days to get it removed from the list or longer for it to age off of the lists. I got on some lists because I did a Reply All to a message from an organization that had over 100 addressees.
_________________________
joemikeb • moderator

Top
#50499 - 11/16/18 11:23 PM Re: Translation please! [Re: joemikeb]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Thanks for the explanation.

I was dreading the possibility of having to call AOL support and am delighted that such will not be the case; I'll just wait it out with crossed fingers.
_________________________
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

Top
#50502 - 11/17/18 09:06 AM Re: Translation please! [Re: artie505]
joemikeb Online
Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas
Originally Posted By: artie505
Thanks for the explanation.

I was dreading the possibility of having to call AOL support and am delighted that such will not be the case; I'll just wait it out with crossed fingers.

If memory serves, and in this case I am certain that it does, AOL accounts were the most frequently blocked back in those earlier days because they were the single biggest source of SPAM. Since then AOL has tightened their controls and spammers have figured out how to turn PC's into SMTP servers for SPAM without the knowledge of the user. But because of AOL's history it is not too surprising that your German recipient might be overly cautious about your message.

By-the-way, although I haven't run into this in decades, from prior experience with blocked accounts, it might be necessary for you to contact AOL and have them contact the rejecting server to finally get the situation corrected. An easier solution might be an alternate email account with another provider.
_________________________
joemikeb • moderator

Top
#50504 - 11/18/18 01:21 AM Re: Translation please! [Re: joemikeb]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Again, thanks.

It occurred to me that even though Verizon stripped me of phone support when they dumped me into AOL's lap I could still email them. (Duh!)

I'll post back when...if there's a resolution to my problem.

(I'd have to open a Gmail account as a workaround, and that involves more involvement with Google than I care for. Happily, my current issue isn't critical, and I've got time to wait. )
_________________________
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

Top
#50506 - 11/18/18 05:00 AM Re: Translation please! [Re: artie505]
joemikeb Online
Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas
Originally Posted By: artie505
(I'd have to open a Gmail account as a workaround, and that involves more involvement with Google than I care for. Happily, my current issue isn't critical, and I've got time to wait. )

I too am trying to limit my involvement with Google, but since you have a Mac, why not set up an iCloud email? Doesn't cost anything and I have found it to be highly reliable.
_________________________
joemikeb • moderator

Top
#50513 - 11/18/18 11:53 PM Re: Translation please! [Re: joemikeb]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: joemikeb
... since you have a Mac, why not set up an iCloud email? Doesn't cost anything and I have found it to be highly reliable.

Thanks for the tip; I wasn't aware that I could send mail through iCloud without benefit of my ISP. For the moment, though, I'll stick with my policy of avoiding iCloud.

I was able to contact Russell via MacUpdate, and his response was

Quote:
you mail server isn't sending a valid SPF. I hardened up my mail server, as I was tired of sifting through countless spam messages each day, to find the real messages. I'll see if I can dial it back a little

That sounds as if he's got some sort of "pref" to allow "suspicious" mail through?

In addition, I've emailed AOL about the problem, which seems to arise on their end, and which, hopefully, they will fix.
_________________________
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

Top
#50514 - 11/19/18 06:37 AM Re: Translation please! [Re: artie505]
joemikeb Online
Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas
Originally Posted By: artie505
Thanks for the tip; I wasn't aware that I could send mail through iCloud without benefit of my ISP. For the moment, though, I'll stick with my policy of avoiding iCloud.

I have multiple active email accounts and only one of them is with my ISP (Charter/Spectrum) but of course all communication with all of the other accounts travels through the Charter/Spectrum network but not the Charter/Spectrum SMTP or POP/IMAP servers. However at one time, in response to heavy pressure from the United States congress and several state legislatures to stem the flood of SPAM coming from their network, AOL established a policy that all outgoing email communications had to go through their servers and come from a duly registered AOL account. All direct communications with other provider's SMTP servers was blocked. I have no recent experience with AOL (say the last 30 years or more) but that may still be the case. In my experience AOL's policy was unique, but there may be others.

As to your avoidance of iCloud, that is of course your choice.

Originally Posted By: artie505
In addition, I've emailed AOL about the problem, which seems to arise on their end, and which, hopefully, they will fix.

Good luck with that, but I hope you are not holding your breath waiting for it to happen. tongue
_________________________
joemikeb • moderator

Top
#50519 - 11/20/18 05:23 AM Re: Translation please! [Re: joemikeb]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: joemikeb
Originally Posted By: artie505
In addition, I've emailed AOL about the problem, which seems to arise on their end, and which, hopefully, they will fix.

Good luck with that, but I hope you are not holding your breath waiting for it to happen. tongue

Nope, I'm not, but it's totally irresponsible of AOL; they've got to have people screaming on both sides of the Atlantic. mad

At any rate, Russell was able to get me past his gauntlet, and we're back in business. smile
_________________________
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

Top
#50525 - 11/21/18 08:36 AM Re: Translation please! [Re: joemikeb]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: joemikeb
Originally Posted By: artie505
In addition, I've emailed AOL about the problem, which seems to arise on their end, and which, hopefully, they will fix.

Good luck with that, but I hope you are not holding your breath waiting for it to happen. tongue

Well, I'll be damned! cool

Originally Posted By: AOL
Good Day,

Thank you for contacting the AOL Email Support Team.

We would like to inform you that we are now escalating the case to our Postmaster team for further evaluation. They will be in contact with the administrator of the domain you are having issues sending emails to and will make the changes necessary to ensure email delivery to and from your account goes back to normal.

Unfortunately, providing a time frame is not possible at the moment since they are handling a very large number of requests in queue and the complexity of the issue hasn't yet been determined.

We sincerely appreciate your patience and understanding regarding this matter and please accept our sincere apologies for any inconvenience created until the issue is fixed.

Sounds like the problem is pretty widespread.

Any ideas about why it affects one German recipient and not another (who presumably uses a different ISP)? If it is, in fact, the result of new EU rules it seems like it should be universal.
_________________________
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

Top
#50529 - 11/21/18 09:55 AM Re: Translation please! [Re: artie505]
joemikeb Online
Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas
Originally Posted By: artie505
Any ideas about why it affects one German recipient and not another (who presumably uses a different ISP)? If it is, in fact, the result of new EU rules it seems like it should be universal.

Rules are rules. How they are interpreted and implemented is something else entirely and each site is responsible for their own interpretation and implementation. Your recipient appears to have chosen a very conservative (strict) interpretation or it may be that AOL's response to the. new EU requirements may have been based on a very loose interpretation. That is common any time new rules or standards are promulgated and it can take some time, even years, to work the kinks out and every provider is fully compatible with everyone else.

(Technology changes so fast that sometimes full compatibility is never achieved because newer technology has made it obsolete.)


Edited by joemikeb (11/21/18 10:05 AM)
Edit Reason: add comment
_________________________
joemikeb • moderator

Top
#50573 - 11/30/18 09:12 PM Re: Translation please! [Re: artie505]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
I received an update from AOL...

Quote:
The Postmaster Team investigated the issue you have encountered. Based on the bounce back message that you sent us, they determined that you are sending Verizon email from a non-Verizon host. This usually happens when using third party email applications, such as Microsoft Outlook, Mac Mail, Windows Live Mail, Mozilla Thunderbird, to send emails. (Emphasis added)

Unfortunately, the settings they advised me to use are the same ones I"ve been using for at least two years...

Protocol    Server Settings                                                         Port Settings
POP 3        Incoming mail server (POP3): pop.verizon.net           POP3-995-SSL
                 Outgoing mail server (SMTP): smtp.verizon.net         SMTP-465-SSL

Sigh! frown
_________________________
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

Top
#50576 - 12/01/18 07:53 AM Re: Translation please! [Re: artie505]
Ira L Offline


Registered: 08/13/09
Loc: California
So are they saying that unless you use their Internet webmail site to send e-mails, this sort of problem can happen? Or do they have their own e-mail application?
_________________________
On a Mac since 1984.
Currently: 27" iMacs, Macbook Air, macOS 10.14.x,; iPhones, iPods and iPads galore!

Top
#50577 - 12/01/18 08:05 AM Re: Translation please! [Re: Ira L]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: Ira L
So are they saying that unless you use their Internet webmail site to send e-mails, this sort of problem can happen? Or do they have their own e-mail application?

The former sounds like what they're saying; AOL has got a mobile app, but I'm not aware of a desktop app.

But I don't buy into their answer, because it's flat out wrong.

Let's see what their next response is.
_________________________
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

Top
#50588 - 12/01/18 02:43 PM Re: Translation please! [Re: artie505]
joemikeb Online
Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas
Originally Posted By: artie505
The former sounds like what they're saying; AOL has got a mobile app, but I'm not aware of a desktop app.

AFIK AOL has never had a mobile app, but they do have a webmail client you can access via Safari or any other web browser. Their answer does fit with AOL's historical practices and security workarounds over the years, running up against stricter European security regulations or perhaps a more stringent interpretation and implementation of those regulations.

The adage, "Friends don't let friends use AOL" rings a bell from my past memory. I thought AOL had gotten past that, but maybe not. crazy
_________________________
joemikeb • moderator

Top
#50593 - 12/02/18 02:11 AM Re: Translation please! [Re: joemikeb]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
I've got no idea if AOL Mail for Mobile is brand spanking new, old as dirt, or somewhere in between.

I'm not with AOL by choice.

Verizon bought it and transferred its email functionality - all but free 24/7 phone support mad - to it (but at least allowed users to keep their existing @verizon email addresses).

So, like it or not, here I am. frown mad
_________________________
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

Top

Moderator:  alternaut, dianne, MacManiac