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#9177 - 04/03/10 02:57 AM Command-Control-D and Wikipedia
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Thanks for the info; I never knew Wikipedia was included in Dictionary.app.

I've never seen it offered as an option in a command-control-D drop-down, though; any idea why, or can you suggest something I can try that will show it?



Edited by dkmarsh (04/03/10 05:37 AM)
Edit Reason: Detached from "Japanese Plugins in Computer/Library Dictionaries" and retitled.
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#9179 - 04/03/10 05:34 AM Re: Command-Control-D and Wikipedia [Re: artie505]
dkmarsh Offline

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Registered: 08/04/09

Quote:
...any idea why..?

Wikipedia content is downloaded to the Dictionary.app window in real time, since (obviously) the entire Wikipedia database is not preinstalled via OS X and continuously updated.

The Command-Control-D Lookup in Dictionary feature is already not instantaneously responsive; I'm guessing that the additional overhead that would be required to add WebKit functions to it would make it significantly slower. Plus, it uses a small, fixed-size window which would make perusing any typical Wikipedia entry an entire magnitude worse than, say, reading web pages on an iPhone (and downright impossible for the zealously keyboard-centric, since there appears to be no way to scroll that window's contents other than by pointing device.) I suppose this could be changed, but again, doing so would introduce additional window-management overhead, further bogging down what is clearly meant to be a quick, light way of looking up words.
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#9184 - 04/03/10 08:40 AM Re: Command-Control-D and Wikipedia [Re: artie505]
alternaut Offline

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Registered: 08/04/09
FWIW, both the inclusion of the Japanese-language dictionary Daijisen (followed by other languages*) and Dictionary's Wikipedia functionality were introduced by Leopard, and are not available in Tiger.

*) These additional plugins are optional, and not installed by default. They include Arabic, German, Thai and possibly others, and differ from independent dictionaries like Chinese-English or Czech-English.


Edited by alternaut (04/03/10 09:07 AM)
Edit Reason: Added details.
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#9249 - 04/06/10 01:29 AM Re: Command-Control-D and Wikipedia [Re: dkmarsh]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Thanks... All good points, but...
  1. I find command-control-D to be instantaneously responsive.
  2. Since my cursor is so close to a c-c-D window, just a tiny move enables me to scroll with SideTrack (which, VERY unfortunately, has reached the end of its run due to what Alex Harper, its developer, has described as "back-end legal issues").
The only point, of which I can think, that you missed is that much Wikipedia content is phrase based, and if there's a way to c-c-D a phrase I've been unable to discern it.

I find it odd, though, that Apple chose to include Wikipedia in Dictionary.app; it's hardly intuitive, and users familiar with c-c-D are not likely to ever run across it.

Aside: Can anybody explain why neither "cocoa" nor "WebKit" (and, I assume, other such terms) are not in the Apple dictionary?

And I just noticed that "Desktop," which is capitalized in all Apple documentation that I've ever seen is l.c. in the Apple Dictionary, and that "Command," which Apple apparently considers at least somewhat proprietary (as indicated by its capitalization) is not in there at all.

Much contradictory stuff...
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#9254 - 04/06/10 04:26 AM Re: Command-Control-D and Wikipedia [Re: artie505]
dkmarsh Offline

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Registered: 08/04/09

Quote:
I find it odd, though, that Apple chose to include Wikipedia in Dictionary.app; it's hardly intuitive, and users familiar with c-c-D are not likely to ever run across it.

On the contrary, it strikes me as perfectly intuitive—perhaps because since long before the arrival of Leopard, I've been looking things up in Wikipedia via an AppleScript script which takes a highlighted word or phrase and constructs a URL around it. (I wish there were a Look Up in Wikipedia command in between Search in Google and Look Up in Dictionary in Safari's contextual menu.)

As for users who somehow learned about Command-Control-D hovering (which I'd argue is itself non-intuitive) despite a disinclination to look at documentation or Apple PR, you'd think the presence of Wikipedia in Dictionary.app's window would be a tip-off (unless such users unchecked Wikipedia in Dictionary.app's prefs when first encountering it, then promptly forgot it ever existed...)

Or are you really stating that the Dictionary "panel" (that little floating fixed-size window invoked by Command-Control-D) so fulfills your word lookup needs that in Leopard, you've never bothered to use Dictionary.app itself? shocked
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#9272 - 04/06/10 05:18 PM Re: Command-Control-D and Wikipedia [Re: artie505]
dianne Offline

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Registered: 08/04/09
artie505,
Quote:
. . . it's hardly intuitive, and users familiar with c-c-D are not likely to ever run across it.
Does this repeat something you have already found? Command-Control-D > More > Wikipedia.

This assumes that Wikipedia is selected in Dictionary > Preferences.
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#9320 - 04/08/10 02:58 AM Re: Command-Control-D and Wikipedia [Re: dkmarsh]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Quote:
On the contrary, it strikes me as perfectly intuitive—perhaps because since long before the arrival of Leopard, I've been looking things up in Wikipedia via an AppleScript script which takes a highlighted word or phrase and constructs a URL around it.

I, too, have been using Wikipedia for ages (via an option-W Butler search window), and I agree that Apple's including a link to Wikipedia somewhere is intuitive...just not in a dictionary window.

Quote:
(I wish there were a Look Up in Wikipedia command in between Search in Google and Look Up in Dictionary in Safari's contextual menu.)

As a rule, I never wish for anything, but... Right on!!! (That would be intuitive.)

Quote:
As for users who somehow learned about Command-Control-D hovering (which I'd argue is itself non-intuitive) despite a disinclination to look at documentation or Apple PR, you'd think the presence of Wikipedia in Dictionary.app's window would be a tip-off (unless such users unchecked Wikipedia in Dictionary.app's prefs when first encountering it, then promptly forgot it ever existed...)

c-c-D is, indeed, non-intuitive, but it was visibly hyped as one of Tiger's new features.

On reflection, what I think happened is I hit dianne's "More" once, took a quick look around, and, being in dictionary mode, saw "Wiktionary," rather than "Wikipedia," and, indeed, promptly forgot about it. (Try c-c-Ding "quick" or "look" in the preceding sentence, and see if all you get is Apple and Wikipedia references to "Quick Look" [with Dictionary and Thesaurus grayed out] like I just did. Hmmm... c-c-Ding either word in quotes calls up their real definitions. confused)

Quote:
Or are you really stating that the Dictionary "panel" (that little floating fixed-size window invoked by Command-Control-D) so fulfills your word lookup needs that in Leopard, you've never bothered to use Dictionary.app itself?

If c-c-D's definition doesn't satisfy me I control-W to a Butler Webster's search window or flip open - dare I say it - my unabridged. shocked (I've now taken a look in Dictionary.app, and I see that it does not expand on the definitions presented in the pop-up.)
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#9321 - 04/08/10 03:00 AM Re: Command-Control-D and Wikipedia [Re: dianne]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
The answer to your question is included in my response to dk.
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#9325 - 04/08/10 05:27 AM Re: Command-Control-D and Wikipedia [Re: artie505]
roger Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Vermont
Originally Posted By: artie505
Quote:


[quote] (I wish there were a Look Up in Wikipedia command in between Search in Google and Look Up in Dictionary in Safari's contextual menu.)

As a rule, I never wish for anything, but... Right on!!! (That would be intuitive.)


there used to be such a third-party plug-in for an earlier iteration of Safari, but I can't remember what it was called. I currently use Glims, and though it isn't a CM, does add multiple search choices in the Google search bar, which can speed things along nicely.


found it: AcidSearch
sadly, it hasn't been updated. frown


Edited by roger (04/08/10 06:29 AM)
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#9351 - 04/08/10 11:24 PM Re: Command-Control-D and Wikipedia [Re: roger]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Thanks, Roger, but neither AcidSearch nor Glims turns the trick that dk and I are after, i.e. being able to select text anywhere, control-click on it, and click "Search in Wikipedia."

Personally, I never use Safari's Google search window, relying, instead, on my Butler Google search window, but I do see the benefit that may be derived from searching multiple engines at the same time.
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#9613 - 04/21/10 09:45 AM Re: Command-Control-D and Wikipedia [Re: artie505]
alternaut Offline

Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Five Dictionary tricks describes additional goodies you may not have been aware of. cool
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#9629 - 04/21/10 11:25 PM Re: Command-Control-D and Wikipedia [Re: alternaut]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: alternaut
Five Dictionary tricks describes additional goodies you may not have been aware of. cool

cool Thanks! smile
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Moderator:  alternaut, dianne, dkmarsh