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#8243 - 02/07/10 04:33 AM Re: iPad [Re: Hal Itosis]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
> (except for implying i visit lawless websites)

Sorry about that; it demands clarification... "Lawless" was not meant to be taken literally, rather I used it to label those sites, social networking, torrent, porn, et al, that are known to be "drop boxes" for the sort of stuff that Security Updates address as well as other "bad" stuff.

> I'm just trying to encourage all readers (you and others) to adopt the healthy practice of keeping current with OS versions and security updates.

And I'm questioning the importance of not only the Security Update aspect of your post, but of your premise in general.

It is, perhaps, healthy, but, as I've pointed out, hardly necessary to jump on Security Updates, and what's so all-fired important about keeping current with OS X in general?

I've not run across even a single reason to regret never having run Tiger, and I don't feel any differently about Snow Leopard so far. (It's most useful feature, in my eyes, anyhow, is its compactness, and I have taken advantage of that to install it on an 8Gb flash drive.)

>I use the drop down menu (off the back-arrow key) to "snapback" several times a day. Have you even tried the menu method yet? [it's hard to tell, but it doesn't sound as if you have. The difference is so minuscule that there's no way you would get this worked up about it.] EDIT: either way, your pronouncement that Safari 4 has "NO" snapback is simply inaccurate. It has a slightly different snapback feature, that's all.

I haven't tried the "menu method," because I wasn't aware of it, and now that I am, I'm not certain how it works; I'm open to change, and clarification will be appreciated and may even be catalytic.

> EDIT: either way, your pronouncement that Safari 4 has "NO" snapback is simply inaccurate. It has a slightly different snapback feature, that's all.

Clarification, please... Is Safari 4's "slightly different snapback feature" a new feature or merely a resurgence of a Safari 2 feature that was perhaps meant to have been upstaged by SnapBack.

> Besides being blissfully unaware of which thread you've posted in [....]

I'm fully aware of both which thread I'm posting in and that it was you who prompted me to post with
Originally Posted By: Hal Itosis
10.5.7 confused [try running software update grin ]

> [...] you are missing out on some fun technology.

...none of which I even covet, let alone need; heck, I probably wouldn't even have a computer if my daughter hadn't knocked on my door one day and handed me a leftover PowerMac.

(To give that a bit of perspective I'll mention that I wear a mechanical watch, I write with a fountain pen, and, although I use a phone with a memory for dialing, I have an old rotary-dial job that does the ringing. grin)
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#8244 - 02/07/10 05:39 AM Re: iPad [Re: artie505]
dkmarsh Offline
Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09

Quote:
I haven't tried the "menu method," because I wasn't aware of it, and now that I am, I'm not certain how it works; I'm open to change, and clarification will be appreciated and may even be catalytic.

Hal should have said, "I use the drop down menu (off the back-arrow button)"; you ought to be aware of it, since it was mentioned in the the very post you linked to. (Your take on it then: "Hmmm... I don't know about much better, but I'll play with it; thanks for the thought.")

Quote:
Clarification, please... Is Safari 4's "slightly different snapback feature" a new feature or merely a resurgence of a Safari 2 feature that was perhaps meant to have been upstaged by SnapBack.

Actually, pretty much every modern general-purpose browser for the Mac allows you to click-and-hold on the Back button to display a navigation menu comprised of all previous pages which have been loaded in the tab you're in (or window, if you're not using tabs).

I can't speak for when this feature was introduced or when it became universal, but it's available in all the browsers I have easily at hand (Safari 4, Camino 2, Firefox 3.5, iCab 4, OmniWeb 5.9).


Edited by dkmarsh (02/07/10 09:42 AM)
Edit Reason: Added OmniWeb 5.9. to the list.
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#8246 - 02/07/10 09:42 AM Re: iPad [Re: artie505]
Hal Itosis Offline


Registered: 09/03/09
Loc: 10.6.8 (build 10K549)
Originally Posted By: artie505
And I'm questioning the importance of not only the Security Update aspect of your post, but of your premise in general.

My
premise? I think that the merits of keeping our software up-to-date (especially where many security-specific fixes are part of the package) is a fairly universal premise. You are of course free to disagree... but, it's not only "me" with whom you'll find this particular disagreement. (Indeed your viewpoint is most certainly the minority).

So, i'll continue to encourage users to stay up to date, and leave you to set the counter example (extolling the virtues of running less secure systems). My objective was merely to serve notice, and that much seems to have been achieved.

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#8277 - 02/08/10 10:13 AM Re: iPad [Re: macnerd10]
ryck Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Okanagan Valley
Originally Posted By: macnerd10
I've read that a Chinese company is pretty angry with Apple because they may have "stolen their idea".


Well, that's certainly novel....coming from a company in a country that has little respect for copyright and is the home to a huge business manufacturing knock-offs.

ryck
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#8279 - 02/08/10 11:02 AM Re: iPad [Re: ryck]
Hal Itosis Offline


Registered: 09/03/09
Loc: 10.6.8 (build 10K549)
Originally Posted By: ryck
Originally Posted By: macnerd10
I've read that a Chinese company is pretty angry with Apple because they may have "stolen their idea".


Well, that's certainly novel....coming from a company in a country that has little respect for copyright and is the home to a huge business manufacturing knock-offs.

ryck

Seems a little late in the game too. Arguably, all Apple has done is made their (Sept. 2007) iPod touch larger. [edit: and the iPhone started out (was announced) in Jan. 2007]


Edited by Hal Itosis (02/08/10 11:04 AM)

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#8284 - 02/08/10 12:15 PM Re: iPad [Re: Hal Itosis]
alternaut Offline

Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
The main reason the Shenzhen Great Loong Brother Company is now making a stink is because they're already selling a tablet (the P88) that happens to be a design knockoff of the iPhone/iPod Touch: see Chinese ‘iPad’ Maker Threatens to Sue Apple for Plagiarism. I doubt they’ll get far should they decide to pursue this in court.
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#8304 - 02/09/10 03:04 PM Re: iPad [Re: alternaut]
macnerd10 Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
I agree that their chances are slim, but lack of a camera (cheap stuff) on iPad is really a turn-off. No Skype, guys...
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3.1 GHz 13" MacBook Pro 2015, 8 GB RAM, OS 10.11.2, Office 2011, TimeWarner Cable
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#8306 - 02/09/10 04:30 PM Re: iPad [Re: macnerd10]
Hal Itosis Offline


Registered: 09/03/09
Loc: 10.6.8 (build 10K549)
Originally Posted By: macnerd10
I agree that their chances are slim, but lack of a camera (cheap stuff) on iPad is really a turn-off.

Camera? Maybe one will come. I've had a camera in my various cell phones since 1999 (i think) and probably taken less than 20 snapshots.The [current] lack of a camera is not something many people are concerned with (at least not in terms of complaints posted on the web so far). Although the iPad will undoubtedly get outdoor usage, i think the primary target areas intended are living rooms and offices. [and photography buffs probably have 3 cameras already.]


Originally Posted By: macnerd10
No Skype, guys...

I posted this link back on page 2: VoIP on iPad, iPhone, iPod touch?
Have you got any news which contradicts those expectations?


Edited by Hal Itosis (02/09/10 04:34 PM)

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#8308 - 02/09/10 05:30 PM Re: iPad [Re: Hal Itosis]
crarko Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Minnesota USA
Originally Posted By: Hal Itosis

Originally Posted By: macnerd10
No Skype, guys...

I posted this link back on page 2: VoIP on iPad, iPhone, iPod touch?
Have you got any news which contradicts those expectations?


I believe he's referring to the video chatting feature of Skype. I suppose there might be a dock based camera for the iPad sometime. Maybe Logitech.
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#8310 - 02/09/10 07:35 PM Re: iPad [Re: crarko]
Hal Itosis Offline


Registered: 09/03/09
Loc: 10.6.8 (build 10K549)

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#8312 - 02/09/10 07:57 PM Re: iPad [Re: Hal Itosis]
macnerd10 Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
Like many people said: a fluke...
I did indeed mean video chat (thanks, Crarko), so standard these days on laptops. Pretty sure that a lot of folks would part with a hundred bucks more to get a fully functional internet machine. I may be wrong, but this looks like the first time that Apple's innovation did not go far enough to even be at the same level as the competition...


Edited by macnerd10 (02/09/10 08:00 PM)
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3.1 GHz 13" MacBook Pro 2015, 8 GB RAM, OS 10.11.2, Office 2011, TimeWarner Cable
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#8313 - 02/09/10 08:04 PM Re: iPad [Re: macnerd10]
Hal Itosis Offline


Registered: 09/03/09
Loc: 10.6.8 (build 10K549)
Um... it's not a laptop. It's a hand-held device.

I'd imagine that picture (video chat) will be bobbing around a bit, as the user moves the iPad around in their hands. But anyway... if that's a "must-have" for someone, then they "must-wait" i guess.

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#8315 - 02/09/10 10:14 PM Re: iPad [Re: artie505]
tacit Offline


Registered: 08/03/09
Loc: Portland, Oregon, USA
Originally Posted By: artie505
>And second, I do not visit untrustworthy websites; my Safaris do not take me into the lawless areas of the web, so I do not consider myself sufficiently at risk to need to downgrade my computing experience in order to upgrade my security.


Just as a side note, unrelated to the issue of whether or not modern Safari versions are lacking or security updates are important:

It used to be that most computer malware was spread through phony porn sites, and it was once true that by staying away from the "lawless areas of the internet" you were in fact a lot safer.

Today, this is no longer the case. The vast majority of malware is served up from big-name, reputable sites. The New York Times, Travelocity, Delta.com, Expedia, MSN, and other sites have ended up dishing out computer viruses and malware in the last year.

There are three ways this happens:

1. Organized crime gangs set up fake businesses, sometimes even with business licenses and the whole nine yards. They set up Web sites for these phony businesses, then buy banner ads from legitimate banner ad companies like Doubleclick. These ads are Flash, and contain hidden payloads; they usually go to the phony business site, but are rigged so that occasionally, or after a certain time, they start silently redirecting to malware sites instead. The malware sites attempt to use a cocktail of browser and Flash exploits to download malware.

2. Organized crime gangs probe large, popular, top-name Web sites searching for security vulnerabilities such as SQL injection vulnerabilities or the like. Surprisingly in this day and age, a lot of big-name Web companies that should know better, sometimes even including companies like credit card processors, do not have security auditing teams within the company and don't have programs in place to look for this sort of error. All it takes is one Web programmer making one trivial mistake. When the criminals find a vulnerability, they hack the site and place invisible, silent redirectors, or JavaScript or iFrame code, into the site. The site then attempts to silently download malware on anyone who visits it using various browser and plug-in vulnerabilities.

3. Organized crime gangs troll large, big-name Internet sites looking for user forums, customer service forums, and the like. They then register and create profiles on those forums. Some forum software allows users to type JavaScript, ASP code, or other forms of content into a profile or a user page, which is suicidally insane; it's hard to imagine that forum programmers are dumb enough to allow this, but they do. The criminals will then place hostile ASP or JavaScript code into the user profile that attempts to silently download and install malware. Then they seed the profile with popular Google keywords and attempt to lure people doing popular Google keyword searches to these rigged profiles. For example, in the last few weeks, these gangs have used Google keywords like "haiti earthquake" or "donate haiti charity" to lure users to rigged profiles that either redirect to malware sites or try to install malware directly.

So far, I have not seen Mac malware distributed using technique #1 or #2. I have seen Mac malware, specifically the DNSchanger Trojan, distributed using technique #3. In fact, there is an Intuit (the accounting software company) official online forum that has been compromised and is being used to spread malware to visitors, and is also using rigged Google keywords to lure visitors to booby-trapped profiles. I wrote an article about the Intuit hack recently, in fact.

So thinking that you're safe if you keep to the "right" part of the internet is actually a dangerous fallacy, I'm afraid. frown
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#8316 - 02/10/10 05:06 AM Re: iPad [Re: tacit]
Hal Itosis Offline


Registered: 09/03/09
Loc: 10.6.8 (build 10K549)
Originally Posted By: tacit

Interesting exchange in the comments there too (i.e., quicktaxgeoff on Dec. 22nd, 2009 and later on Jan. 27th, 2010). Unbelievable. [Intuit pisses me off on so many levels.]

Great work man.


Edited by Hal Itosis (02/10/10 05:08 AM)

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#8317 - 02/10/10 09:48 AM Re: iPad [Re: Hal Itosis]
dkmarsh Offline
Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09

Some interesting insights into possible business uses for the iPad:

Apple's iPad for Business Is Being Underestimated.
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#8318 - 02/10/10 10:15 AM Re: iPad [Re: Hal Itosis]
macnerd10 Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
What is a mobile phone? A hand-held device. And their cameras can do video for quite some time. Not really a camcorder, though, I agree. Still no excuse for Apple; besides, if your reference to the camera enclosure is right, even more weird. At least some competitors have it, like Nokia, with a smaller and probably even less functional gadget http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qojPvrOwI2c


Edited by macnerd10 (02/10/10 10:21 AM)
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3.1 GHz 13" MacBook Pro 2015, 8 GB RAM, OS 10.11.2, Office 2011, TimeWarner Cable
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#8319 - 02/10/10 10:37 AM Re: iPad [Re: macnerd10]
Hal Itosis Offline


Registered: 09/03/09
Loc: 10.6.8 (build 10K549)
I'll bet dollars to doughnuts that -- if/when a video option is finally included -- they'll sell more iPads without it than with. I mean, it might be a nice addition and all... but for living room, classroom, and/or office use... not vital by any means. [So why add more cost?]

Besides... if it had every single bell and whistle on day zero, where would they go from there? <--EDIT: to expand on that, it seems many folks are wanting (or expecting) the iPad to instantly be a "100%" device for "100%" of the people. I don't believe its current incarnation is even trying to be that. Can i get a command line terminal and look at all the hidden files like i do on a real Mac? I doubt it... it's not a computer. Nor a phone (yet), nor a camera (yet), nor (merely) an e-Reader. What will really determine its value are whatever "apps" people develop to make it do stuff. I could see users preferring to bring their iPad places where a MacBook might be more than necessary (coffee shop, a night on the town,Thanksgiving weekend at Grandma's, etc). There are many situations where it might be the perfect "in-between" machine for many different types of users. As i mentioned a few pages back: new venues as yet unexpected. It's small (but not too small), it's cheap (but not entirely unproductive).

Time will tell. [it's kind of tricky: Apple doesn't want to cannibalize either the MacBook or the iPhone entirely... but some users may eventually give up one of them. There are many ways this iPad thing can go, and Apple is smart by leaving it room to grow. If people demand video (and want to pay for it), i'm sure that's already part of the plan. Meanwhile, users who don't require that particular amenity are getting the first crack.]


Edited by Hal Itosis (02/10/10 11:24 AM)
Edit Reason: yack.yack. ;-)

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#8329 - 02/10/10 04:20 PM Re: iPad [Re: Hal Itosis]
macnerd10 Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
Your reasoning is valid, of course, but lack of webcam has been cited so many times already that it seems a glaring omission. The iPad seems to be geared for Internet users and video chat is now very popular. Given Apple's innovative approach many are disappointed with this obvious glitch in forward thinking.
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3.1 GHz 13" MacBook Pro 2015, 8 GB RAM, OS 10.11.2, Office 2011, TimeWarner Cable
2.8 GHz Xeon Mac Pro 2010, 16 GB RAM, OS 10.11.2, Office 2011, LAN

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#8335 - 02/11/10 06:49 AM Re: iPad [Re: macnerd10]
crarko Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Minnesota USA
Originally Posted By: macnerd10
Your reasoning is valid, of course, but lack of webcam has been cited so many times already that it seems a glaring omission. The iPad seems to be geared for Internet users and video chat is now very popular. Given Apple's innovative approach many are disappointed with this obvious glitch in forward thinking.


You assume it's a glitch of Apple's; I assume it's a 'Let's not take out the rest of AT&T's network while waiting for 4G do be deployed in 2011.' smile

It's OK to wait for next year's model.
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#8336 - 02/11/10 06:56 AM Re: iPad [Re: crarko]
dkmarsh Offline
Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09

You'd almost think Apple learned something from the me.com rollout. laugh
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#8337 - 02/11/10 08:03 AM Re: iPad [Re: macnerd10]
Hal Itosis Offline


Registered: 09/03/09
Loc: 10.6.8 (build 10K549)
Originally Posted By: macnerd10
Your reasoning is valid, of course, but lack of webcam has been cited so many times already that it seems a glaring omission. The iPad seems to be geared for Internet users and video chat is now very popular. Given Apple's innovative approach many are disappointed with this obvious glitch in forward thinking.

Nah... that's overstating the importance of an expensive option which many will be glad not to be forced to pay for. If the iPad later offers video chat, are you gonna rush out and pick one up? Or are you merely a disinterested agitator? grin

+ FWIW, i've been using personal computers at an increasingly geeky level since 1989 (though actually, i did learn some BASIC back in 11th grade... c.a., 1972), and i've never done any video chatting. The first thing i'll do with my (soon-to-be-released) MacBook Pro is put some opaque tape over that iSight camera lens. cool If there was an option to pay less and have no camera, i would probably do so (depending on the cost savings).

Guess i never was much of a "Dick Tracy" fan. (edit: oops, that wasn't video... was it?)


Edited by Hal Itosis (02/11/10 08:17 AM)

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#8338 - 02/11/10 08:27 AM Re: iPad [Re: Hal Itosis]
crarko Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Minnesota USA
I use video chatting on Skype reasonably often. On a Mac with a broadband connection.

I would not like to have any more phone calls dropped because people are trying to do it over the 3G network of my dreams (sic), though.
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The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth. - Niels Bohr

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#8341 - 02/11/10 11:32 AM Re: iPad [Re: tacit]
ryck Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Okanagan Valley
You once wrote a piece on how to read the information following http:// correctly, to avoid being led to a nasty site. The piece may have been at your own website, I don't recall, but I do remember it was about checking the information before the first "/" slash.

This post reminded me of it, and that it's worth a re-read, but I can't find it. Is it still available? Perhaps it can be shared with the FTM family.

Thanks

ryck


Edited by ryck (02/11/10 11:34 AM)
Edit Reason: Additional Info
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#8347 - 02/11/10 02:12 PM Re: iPad [Re: Hal Itosis]
macnerd10 Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
For the first question, the answer is yes, I would get one. For the second question about iSight, even grant reviews are now done in the videoconferencing format. So some people like me need that for work (true, not necessarily all the time). But I imagine that the young buyers would have jumped on it if it had a camera. Our generation does not need it that much, there you are right.
_________________________
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3.1 GHz 13" MacBook Pro 2015, 8 GB RAM, OS 10.11.2, Office 2011, TimeWarner Cable
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#8360 - 02/12/10 02:12 AM Re: iPad [Re: dkmarsh]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
> Hal should have said, "I use the drop down menu (off the back-arrow button)"; you ought to be aware of it, since it was mentioned in the the very post you linked to. (Your take on it then: "Hmmm... I don't know about much better, but I'll play with it; thanks for the thought.")

Aaah... The back-arrow button that never crossed my mind, because, having not had one in my Safari toolbar since day-one, Hal's "back-arrow" reference (in your linked post) misled me. (I did play with the back-arrow and, of course, found that it contributed no useful functionality.)

Since you posted your clarification, though, I restored the back-arrow button to my Safari toolbar and tried Hal's method for a while, and it still comes down to the same bottom line for me, i.e. "keyboard-centricity." SnapBack allows me to get to where I want to get without using my trackpad.

Thanks for setting me straight, though.
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