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13.4.1
#64124 06/24/23 08:33 PM
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jaybass Offline OP
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OS 13.4.1

When I log in to Ventura, it takes from start to finish, 5 minutes and 20 seconds. The desktop appears after 3 minutes and 40 seconds. Also, after clicking on safari, it takes about 55 seconds followed by a beachball.

I only have (2) startup items. Is this normal. Any ideas anyone?

jaybass


OS 13.6.6 iMac (Retina 5K, 27", 2017, 3.4 GHz Intel Core i5, 24 GB RAM, 2400 MHz DDR4. SuperDuper. 1 TB Lacie HD
Re: 13.4.1
jaybass #64125 06/24/23 08:39 PM
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I updated to 13.4.1, and from chime to desktop takes pretty much the same amount of time as all other versions of Ventura have taken...on the order of 1-1 /2 minutes.

What you're experiencing isn't normal.

In your situation, I'd go to the App Store and d/l and run the complete 13.4.1 installer. (Enter macOS Ventura in the search field.)

Running the installer will NOT affect any of your existing data.


The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire
Re: 13.4.1
artie505 #64127 06/25/23 01:09 AM
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I went to the app store and typed in mac OS Ventura and all I could see was to "get" and nothing about uninstall etc so I went to recovery and reinstalled 13.4.1 and from chimes it took 3 minutes & 20 seconds to desktop and then a total of 5 minutes

& 35 seconds...even longer than before!! Tomorrow I will give apple a call and see what they have to say, I will let you know how it goes.

jaybass


OS 13.6.6 iMac (Retina 5K, 27", 2017, 3.4 GHz Intel Core i5, 24 GB RAM, 2400 MHz DDR4. SuperDuper. 1 TB Lacie HD
Re: 13.4.1
jaybass #64128 06/25/23 01:38 AM
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In the case of Ventura, "Get" means you get a downloaded installer which you then run yourself, as opposed to many/all(?) other App Store items for which "Get" means they install on their own.

I didn't direct you to Recovery, because I'm always unsure of which option to use.

I've got no idea why your problem persists, and I'm anxious to hear what Apple's got to say.

(I've always gone the App Store, rather than Recovery, route, because it leaves me with the installer in case I need it again, so I don't have to waste time d/l'ing it again.)


The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire
Re: 13.4.1
artie505 #64131 06/26/23 12:50 AM
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What a day! Over (4) hours on the phone, and (3) different advisers. Began by checking Activity Monitor > %CPU and Memory both ok. Must have rebooted (5) times. System settings> General> removed the (2) start-up items. Also checked storage.


Privacy & Security> turned off FileVault. Booted into Recovery and reinstalled Ventura twice during the sessions. Also booted into Safe mode. All (3) of the advisers, took over my screen during the sessions.

Now the log-in time is about (2) minutes. In order to reduce the log-in time, I simply switched some items off. I was surprised that I was advised to turn off FileVault. Comments?

jaybass


OS 13.6.6 iMac (Retina 5K, 27", 2017, 3.4 GHz Intel Core i5, 24 GB RAM, 2400 MHz DDR4. SuperDuper. 1 TB Lacie HD
Re: 13.4.1
jaybass #64132 06/26/23 07:57 AM
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Comment: You must have the patience of a saint!

Rather than perpetuating a guess, I finally got around to actually timing a restart on my MBP, and from chime to desktop is 45 seconds unless I'm booting into a volume other than my startup disk, in which case it takes longer, but still not your 2 minutes. I assume that you've checked System Info > Startup Disk and the proper disk is selected. My machine is faster than yours, but not that much faster.

I'm at a complete loss as respects possible software issues, so at this point, my only guess is the possibility that your logic board is failing and the issue was exacerbated by the most recent update. Have you run Apple Diagnostics?

If AD doesn't give you an insight, I can only suggest an Apple Store, where more sophisticated, in-depth tests can be run by a "Genius." Is there one in reasonably close proximity to your location? I realize that your iMac is unwieldy and a major nuisance to shlep around, but...


The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire
Re: 13.4.1
artie505 #64134 06/26/23 02:27 PM
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Originally Posted by jaybass
When I log in to Ventura, it takes from start to finish, 5 minutes and 20 seconds. The desktop appears after 3 minutes and 40 seconds.
Originally Posted by artie505
Comment: I finally got around to actually timing a restart on my MBP, and from chime to desktop is 45 seconds
To offer a bit of comparative data, I have an iMac similar to jaybass... For me, from the start of the chord to the log-in window is 51 seconds.

Last edited by ryck; 06/26/23 02:29 PM.

ryck

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Re: 13.4.1
artie505 #64139 06/28/23 03:06 PM
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I tried to run Apple diagnostics several times but it failed but I did run TTP 17 & ran both 'check computer' & 'partition repair' and everything is fine.

So I guess there is nothing seriously amiss.

jaybass


OS 13.6.6 iMac (Retina 5K, 27", 2017, 3.4 GHz Intel Core i5, 24 GB RAM, 2400 MHz DDR4. SuperDuper. 1 TB Lacie HD
Re: 13.4.1
jaybass #64140 06/28/23 03:48 PM
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When you say "Apple Diagnostics failed" that raises at least caution flags. Can you be more specific in how Apple Diagnostics failed?

If you were unable to launch Apple Diagnostics, did you try these combinations to initiate the process?

For what it is worth, the boot/load process has changed significantly during Ventura. I frequently find I am up and browsing the internet while startup apps are still loading and external drives are still mounting. It is not that things are taking longer, rather they are happening in a different order and my system is already working before everything settles.

Last edited by joemikeb; 06/28/23 04:00 PM. Reason: FWIW

If we knew what it was we were doing, it wouldn't be called research, would it?

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Re: 13.4.1
joemikeb #64141 06/28/23 05:30 PM
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jaybass Offline OP
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I did try restarting with D & also D option over the internet, I then turned off firmware and tried again without success. I turned firmware back on.

I did read that Apple Diagnostics is sometimes difficult to access. BTW, an apple advisor told to remove the startup apps including FileVault in order to reduce the startup time and now I have no startup apps.

Doesn't running TTP 17 do the same job?

jaybass


OS 13.6.6 iMac (Retina 5K, 27", 2017, 3.4 GHz Intel Core i5, 24 GB RAM, 2400 MHz DDR4. SuperDuper. 1 TB Lacie HD
Re: 13.4.1
jaybass #64142 06/28/23 11:41 PM
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I have a friend whose 2017 iMac 21.5 w/8GB ram and a 2.3 GHz Intel i5 processor is having the exact same LONG startup and beachball issues as jaybass reported with his iMac...also 2017 but the 27" version with 24 GB ram.

We've removed ALL startup items, there is no FileVault, it gets a clean bill of health with Apple Diagnostics, TTP, MalwareBytes and any other suitable utility that I've tried. It has no indication using TOP in Terminal that there is any disk caching going on, but that is EXACTLY what it feels like with abnormally long startup times for apps with MANY bounces in the dock and many spinning beachballs if too many actions have been requested at once. TOP shows 28-30 stuck processes that eventually clear over about a ten minute period as the system tries to catch up.

I've nuke & paved twice now in hopes of a resolution, but so far nothing has made a difference. Ventura 13.4.1 is where the OS stands at this point.

FWIW, I have an OLD iMac from 2010 that runs lightning fast.....go figure!

Suggestions?


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Re: 13.4.1
MacManiac #64143 06/29/23 03:14 AM
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My initial reaction after reading your post is that your friend's duplicated experience has saved jaybass from a trip to the Apple Store, but after thinking about it and digesting the fact that your and ryck's different vintage iMacs, my 2019 16" MBP, and joemike's silicon Macs aren't experiencing the same issue, I'm now wondering if, in fact, a trip and some deeper diagnostics may be worth the effort. It's, of course, based on a minuscule sample, but it's sure beginning to smell like there's an issue with the 2017 iMac's logic board that needs to be brought to Apple's attention, with the possibility of at least an update to the 13.4.1 update, if not a recall, being in order.

My best suggestion at this point is to roll back the offending iMacs to macOS 13.4, with my next best suggestion being to start a Facebook page to rally the troops and build a base to confront Apple.

For what it's worth, I try, but usually fail, to remember to keep a d/l of the most recent installer from the App Store around so I've got a working version to revert to if the next update goes bad. (D/l'ing at the moment, in fact.)


The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire
Re: 13.4.1
artie505 #64144 06/29/23 05:16 AM
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Thanks Artie, however, it looks like the rollback would need to be more than one generation of the OS as this particular problematic computer was brought to my attention long before Ventura came into the picture. Truthfully there were other issues to resolve in seeking a solution to how horribly slow this thing was, but having done a thorough cleanup and renew using every trick I've learned over the past 10 years plus, this one still beats me.

I think my next effort will be another complete wipe and then a full reversion to the initial OS that this thing was delivered with and populate that with a squeaky clean admin account with no third-party additions....then run speed tests to see how it behaves with that baseline configuration.

I will hold off on installing any past user files or applications until later....in a perfect world, this thing should behave properly in the original baseline, then upgrade OS's sequentially and successfully without reverting to molasses. According to all the Apple documentation this hardware should be capable of fully supporting MacOS 13.4.1.

(edited to correct a typo...)

Last edited by MacManiac; 06/29/23 05:17 AM.

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Re: 13.4.1
MacManiac #64145 06/29/23 06:19 AM
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Well, that certainly confuses the issue!

Your plan sounds like a good one, but I wonder how many of the updates/grades you'll be able to access?

I'll stick with my suggested Facebook page, though, because it may generate some sort of helpful consensus.

I think I'd have thrown my Mac through a window rather than having put up with what your friend has been going through.

Now, if someone can explain why my MBP has been "hesitating" since I upgraded to Monterey, I'd be much indebted to them. tongue


The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire
Re: 13.4.1
artie505 #64146 06/29/23 11:06 AM
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You've now got me curious about whether you'll correct your friend's original problem only to have it recur when you get 13.4.1.


The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire
Re: 13.4.1
artie505 #64148 06/29/23 03:00 PM
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Time will tell....


Freedom is never free....thank a Service member today.
Re: 13.4.1
MacManiac #64149 06/29/23 06:24 PM
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It's gonna be a heck of a job on top of what you've already put into it. I wish you the best of luck.

I hope I can find as good a friend should I run into a problem like your friend's.


The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire
Re: 13.4.1
joemikeb #64150 06/30/23 01:00 PM
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As I have said, I could not access Apple diagnostics but when opening 'About This Mac', and clicking Diagnostics, I see this report,


Diagnostics Name Last Run Result

Apple Diagnostics 2023-04-23
Power On Self Test 2023-06-29 Passed




which I don't understand. This 'Power on Self-Test' shows "passed" What is a 'Power on Self-Test' and how did I do it?

It also says I ran Apple Diagnostics which I could not access.

The only test I ran was TechTool Pro 17.0.2 which showed everything as passed, completed or checked. I also opened DriveDx which didn't show any problems.

jaybass


OS 13.6.6 iMac (Retina 5K, 27", 2017, 3.4 GHz Intel Core i5, 24 GB RAM, 2400 MHz DDR4. SuperDuper. 1 TB Lacie HD
Re: 13.4.1
jaybass #64151 06/30/23 10:19 PM
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The power on self test is run automatically every time a cold boot is performed. The only way to not run it is to never boot your Mac. For more information see this article. For details or running Apple Diagnostics read these Apple instructions carefully and from end-to-end.

This has absolutely nothing to do with TTP regardless of the macOS or TTP version.


If we knew what it was we were doing, it wouldn't be called research, would it?

— Albert Einstein
Re: 13.4.1
joemikeb #64152 06/30/23 10:56 PM
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joe,

I read "this article" and if I understand it correctly, my computer has no hardware problems. So, if you boot up from a cold start and it completes the process, your hardware is fine.

Btw, Is there a time limit on how long you can leave your computer in sleep mode?

Thanks for the info.

jaybass


OS 13.6.6 iMac (Retina 5K, 27", 2017, 3.4 GHz Intel Core i5, 24 GB RAM, 2400 MHz DDR4. SuperDuper. 1 TB Lacie HD
Re: 13.4.1
jaybass #64153 07/01/23 03:32 PM
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Originally Posted by jaybass
joe,

I read "this article" and if I understand it correctly, my computer has no hardware problems. So, if you boot up from a cold start and it completes the process, your hardware is fine.

Yep!

Originally Posted by jaybass
Btw, Is there a time limit on how long you can leave your computer in sleep mode?

Nope! But there is a school of thought that it is not a bad idea to do a cold boot (completely power down and boot up again) every month or so.

My Mac never actually sleeps because I donate the idle CPU time to BOINC running binary pulsar searches and mapping cancer markers. I contributed CPU cycles to SETI (Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence) for decades. While SETI was abandoned because of damage to the Arecibo radio telescope, SETI's data analysis confirmed another facet of Einstein's theory of general relativity, by verifying space/time is not a smooth continuum, rather more like a choppy ocean sea constantly perturbed by waves of micro gravity pulses.

Last edited by joemikeb; 07/01/23 03:33 PM. Reason: typo

If we knew what it was we were doing, it wouldn't be called research, would it?

— Albert Einstein
Re: 13.4.1
joemikeb #64155 07/01/23 03:43 PM
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This topic moved from Other OSs on the Mac as Ventura is a macOS.

joemikeb


If we knew what it was we were doing, it wouldn't be called research, would it?

— Albert Einstein

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