Home Forums Hardware Mac Desktops & Notebooks I've had an idea and can't see much wrong with it

I leave the computer on 24/7, and just sleep the monitor when I'm not using it. Beyond issues of wear and tear and security, you might want to consider energy use. My Mac's a mini, which uses only 85 watts; the MDD draws on the order of 7.5 amps, or about ten times as much power.

same as jooemike

uptime
20:44 up 22 days, 22:05, 3 users, load averages: 0.71 0.86 0.89

I only reboot when needed or when over a month. the laptop gets sleeped all the time of course but the other machines do not. I keep running into people with macbooks that have no idea you can sleep it and avoid the restart delay when you get it out.

I wonder if that quote is based on old designs. I have always turned televisions off when not in use - which would be several times per day - and they've always lasted for years. I'm not a Mac Technician but I would assume that they're built with a device that adjusts the power in stages when the computer is turned on, to reduce the impact of full voltage.

My practice is always to logout and set the monitor to sleep during the day. At night the computer is off.

ryck

My former computer, a G4 DP 450, had problems sleeping. Consequently, I shut down whenever I was finished with a session, often several times a day. I had that computer for 7 years with nary a hiccup.

To my personal knowledge the argument to shut down or not shut down has been going on since the very early 1970s and there has never been a definitive conclusion either way.

The argument for powering down when the computer is not in use holds that turning the computer off saves energy (no argument about that from here) and leaving it on causes the components to age prematurely and thus shortens the life of the machine. Corporate users generally find the energy savings the most compelling argument and shut down.

The argument for leaving the computer on is the "thermal shock" created by the components continually cooling and then reheating tends to weaken solder joints on the logic board, and the frequent expansion and contraction can eventually cause components to suffer mechanical breaks and thereby shorten the life of the machine.

Pick your side, either side, and you will have plenty of company but no genuinely scientific evidence to back it up.

I have chosen the "leave it on" position for four reasons:

1. Modern OSs take so blooming long to start up, I haven't got the patience to sit around waiting on the computer to start up. NOTE: Staged power up would make the boot time even longer and would almost certainly have a negative effect on sales of systems using such a scheme
2. I got in the habit in the early days of the OS X Public Beta when the Daily, Weekly, Monthly maintenance routines ran late at night and of course did not run unless the machine was not only on but awake. I know I could have used Cocktail to manually run the routines but that is a pain and I always forgot. (That was before Cocktail would run automatically and even longer before OnyX or any of the other maintenance utilities were written.)
3. I never remembered to do regular backups, so I used automated backup routines that took a long time and I ran them at night when I was in bed. Again the computer had to be on and awake for that to happen
4. I have never had any problems leaving my Macs on 24x365 and most computer failures I have encountered too often seem to correspond with booting up.

I hear what you're saying about no scientific evidence but, on this one, I have to say "I'm from Missouri." It just doesn't jibe with my simple-minded reality check which is:

a) I have lots of stuff that generates much more heat, but still lasts an awfully long time without that kind of failure. My old cathode ray TV is a good case in point.

b) To affect a solder joint, I assume the heat inside a device would have to be close to the heat at the end of a soldering iron, but that kind of heat would have to have a serious effect on other things before affecting solder.

ryck

It is not the heat that effects the solder joints it is the expansion and contraction of the circuit board that eventually causes the solder joints to crack and break loose.

The title of this thread offers nary a clue as to what its content might be, and now that content has branched off into an entirely different line of thought that I think deserves its own thread. (I've notified the Mods.)

What amazes me, though, is that Mods are active participants in this hi-jacking without recognizing it as such.

Bensheim's original post had to do with a strategy for acquiring a back-up G4. That strategy, along with various related issues, was discussed at length, apparently to Bensheim's satisfaction.

He then posed an additional question which grew organically out of the original discussion:


Following this, while you were trying to get an answer to your initial question (a question which itself, ironically, might be regarded as off-topic), there were a few posts dealing with other side issues: replacing internal optical drives, whether or not one should use Norton products in OS 9.

Then Bensheim reiterated the earlier request for feedback: "Does anyone else here leave their Mac on 24/7? Thanks." The nine subsequent posts all dealt with this question or with issues directly relating to it. Since the question was posed by the original poster after satisfactory resolution of the issue raised in the initial post, no moderator intervention was called for. Note that this is not at all analagous to the situation in which a participant other than the original poster raises an off-topic question in a thread whose initial issue has yet to be resolved.

Since this thread-within-a-thread is clearly off-topic by pretty much any definition, though, let's not continue it here.

Hallo again. I expect you've all been wondering where I've been and how The Big Project is progressing.

It's been a bumpy ride......

The Original Mission was to replace the two (in full production) G4s which run OS9, with (used (obviously)) G4s, to continue to run OS9. I did weeks of research on the internet. As I said, I was up for this. Somewhere along my research route, someone told me on another forum that "I did not know enough about this and should get proper IT support", or words to that effect. I dismissed this as just plain rude verging on offensive. Later on, however, I learned some more, the hard way.........

The MDD G4 arrived from Amazon first. It is ASTONISHINGLY HEAVY. It is a beautiful machine and I'm sure it runs splendidly. However, the seller had loaded Leopard 10.5, not Tiger 10.4. Therefore it would not boot into OS9 which I could see on the disk. I contacted the seller and he offered to send me a hard disk in the post containing Tiger and instructions how to carbon-copy it over. This avenue was discontinued and the MDD is now back in its box under my dining table.

Then I had very traumatic dental surgery necessitating stitches in my jaw, that was new.......

The e-Bay iMac G4 arrived next. It is a beautiful machine and looks like this: http://images.apple.com/support/_images/hero_imacG4.jpg It has 10.4 installed. It came in original packaging and all original system disks.

Still in my dogged quest to have another OS9-bootable new Mac here, I found to my surprise, that it did not have OS9 installed. It would, however, run Classic. That's when I found out that Classic's not much use.....it would see other OSX machines on our network but not the OS9 ones, of course. STUPID ME.

The next thing I did was Very Stupid Indeed. I am perfectly capable of beating myself up and calling myself an idiot, so you can have a good laugh now.

I reinstalled the OS from the disk provided, thinking that that way I'd get the OS9 I desired, on this machine. However, the disk provided was 10.2, Puma, only. No OS9 despite what it says in the handbook. That installed as it should but left the iMac G4 in a worse state than it was when I unpacked it. STUPID ME. STUPID ME. STUPID ME. I retired to bed with sleeping pill and painkillers.

The next day I had a good long hard bike ride and a good long hard think. I then had a good long hard talk with my boss and stated that the Original Mission was now unachievable. Too much time has elapsed. Technology has moved on in the interim 10 years and we have not kept pace. Therefore, this hopeless devotion to OS9 (Specifically, ClarisWorks) has come to an end. All the DTP work must now be done in Pages which we already have. The accounts work is already half-being-done on Numbers anyway and spreadsheets are pretty much the same. I achieved grudging consent.

Today I re-unpacked the cute iMac G4 (photo above) and started over. I had by now discovered how to change the Admin password (THANK GOODNESS) and had to do that first. Then I installed OSX 10.4 Tiger from a family pack which I have here anyway (Thank Goodness). That worked fine. I did a clean install to get rid of the STUPID ME Puma episode.

Now, I have to get the updates for Tiger; then I can load iWorks (also from a family pack I have here) and FileMaker which THANK GOODNESS runs on both PowerPC and Intel Macs.

THEN I must find a way of transferring the large customer database from the old OS9 G4s in ClarisWorks to the iMacG4. FileMaker's support site is full of help. I'll have to use a data stick.

I can't proceed any further atm, however, because I'm working right up till Christmas, then I'm going away, then I'm working again as soon as I get back on the 28th. There's no space in the office to put the cute iMacG4 to download the Tiger updates while we are working. That'll have to wait till next weekend.

I don't know what I'm going to do about the MDD. I might never use it. I'd prefer to get the database converted on the iMacG4 first and then maybe buy another one of those. I don't fancy becoming an eBay seller either, I don't have time for that rigmarole. That can all wait for a bit.

Thanks for reading and I don't mind if you also call me stupid. I'd prefer a salute for my determination to get something out of this and move on, though. Thanks......

When I clicked to your post my room immediately began filling with smoke, and all that was left after I opened a coupl'a windows and cleared the air was...


Let's get real... Bensheim hijacked his own thread (It has still not reached its logical conclusion.), and, in the process, changed a relatively uninteresting (in my opinion, anyhow) thread with a totally uncaptivating name into an interesting one (and I mean interesting content as well as of general interest) with the same totally uncaptivating name.

As a result, any number of visitors to FTM may never (have) look(ed) at the thread, and any number of others may (have) look(ed) at it but never see(n) the interesting stuff at the bottom of the page.

(How can my initial question can be considered off-topic when it was the logical first response to "My trusty old G4 when switched on, displayed the Question Mark instead of booting up. Couldn't find a bootable disk. OH MY GAHHHHDD!?")

> However, the seller had loaded Leopard 10.5, not Tiger 10.4. Therefore it would not boot into OS9 which I could see on the disk.

Did you actually try to boot into OS 9?

My understanding is that a Mac that is capable of booting OS 9 can do so regardless of which version of OS X is installed on it as long as "Mac OS 9 Drivers" have been installed, and if you couldn't boot your MDD into OS 9 it may be no more of an issue than installing those drivers (installation instructions being readily available).

The Tiger/Leopard thing applies to "Classic Environment," support for which was discontinued in Leopard.

Your determination and fortitude are certainly admirable; keep at it, and good luck.

Edit: > Then I installed OSX 10.4 Tiger from a family pack which I have here anyway (Thank Goodness).

I really hate to do this to you, but I must tell you that your use of a Family Pack to install Tiger may be a violation of Apple's "SOFTWARE LICENSE AGREEMENT FOR MAC OS X."

The Leopard SLA, found here, states (on page 73):

(Emphasis added)

I believe the same limitation applies to your iWorks discs.

Artie,

I'm glad you've posted again today. Your previous post - "relatively uninteresting" and "uncaptivating" I found quite hurtful. WRT the thread title and the possibility that others going down the same trail as me might not locate this thread, there's always the Search function. I get the overwhelming majority of my help/research needs on the Apple Support site and forums nowadays and usually find what I want by using Search rather than scrolling down pages of not-exactly-titled threads. I also can't help thinking that if any of the Mods had had a problem with the title they would have dealt with it by now.

Did I try to boot into OS9? Of course. It was the very first thing I did. How else would I know that it would not boot into OS9?

Anyway, as I said in my previous post, this pursuit of OS9 has now come to an end.

You might be faintly interested to hear that last night I had a blinding moment of realisation, aka The Penny Drops. I just wish I had had this epiphany a year ago; it would have saved a great deal of time, effort and money. The only software I need to buy (and it has now been ordered; I found a vendor on the net) is AppleWorks. AppleWorks 6.4 is both PowerPC and Intel installable; AND will read all the current ClarisWorks files including the vital customer database. Therefore I could use it on the two Intel iMacs AND the two PowerPc G4s if necessary. Since by then they'll all be running OSX they will finally all talk to each other as they should.

The blinding moment of realisation was thus: "It's not the processor, it's the operating system!".

So therefore I'm going to keep the MDD, especially since I now know how to change the admin password without which I couldn't load any new s/w.

And if that don't work I'll cross that bridge then. I am very determined. I have to be!

> Your previous post - "relatively uninteresting" and "uncaptivating" I found quite hurtful. WRT the thread title and the possibility that others going down the same trail as me might not locate this thread, there's always the Search function.

1. I certainly didn't mean to be hurtful, Bensheim, and I'm sorry that my post struck you as such, but I still think that your quest for a new, ancient Mac was "relatively uninteresting" to much of FTM's readership, and that since the title of your thread offers nary a clue as to its content it would not have attracted the attention of people who might have been interested in your quest but were unaware of it because they simply cruise FTM's thread lists to see if anything interests them rather than visit every thread as I and others do.

2. I didn't mention "others going down the same trail," but since you have, what search term would you suggest that would call up your thread? It just plain doesn't have a specific topic.

3. It's true that people interested in the question of turning a Mac off as opposed sleeping it could search for the subject and find your thread, but the topic is one that many people who would never ask themselves the question would find interesting enough to read were it stuck under their noses.

> So therefore I'm going to keep the MDD, especially since I now know how to change the admin password without which I couldn't load any new s/w.

Rather than using the MDD "as is," I suggest that you first run a surface scan to see whether its HD has got any bad blocks, and if not, follow that with an erase and install of whichever version of OS X you elect to run; if so, post back here for assistance.

> Did I try to boot into OS9? Of course. It was the very first thing I did. How else would I know that it would not boot into OS9?

No offense intended, but you might have simply assumed that the MDD would not boot into OS 9 by virtue of the fact that it has Leopard installed on it.

> I also can't help thinking that if any of the Mods had had a problem with the title they would have dealt with it by now.

I'll be good; I swear I'll be good!

And finally, I'll say that although your journey has wound up, apparently successfully, with your company upgrading its hardware and software it all might have been totally unnecessary had you originally posted (or searched for) "My Mac boots to a question mark."

Accordingly, and although I realize that you may not the least bit inclined to do any favors for me, when you finally reach the point at which you're comfortable turning your "trusty old G4" off would you please follow the instructions in "Resetting your Mac's PRAM and NVRAM", reselect your startup disk in /Apps/Sys Prefs/Startup Disk after the G4 has booted (Give it some time.), restart, and let us know how you make out.

In closing, I'm pleased that you've apparently worked your issue out to your satisfaction, and I wish you the very best of luck with your new hardware/software configuration.