Home Forums Mac Software Mac Operating Systems Backups gone wonky - TM & CCC

I just upgraded to big Sur and my backups are not what they should be.

Time Machine is showing a couple of hundred GBs more than it should.

Carbon Copy Cloners is just non-functional. The three previous backups are no longer there. Also it seems to think Mojave is still around.

I'm assuming I need to start from scratch but the size of the data no the hard drive, couple with CCC's impression, make me wonder if I need to do something else first. The upgrade from Mojave to Big Sur increased the size the the main drive by about 120 GBs, and that just doesn't feel right.

Thoughts?

And, to add to the wonkiness, there are little things happening that just seem weird. For example, after the Big Sur update, the main drive had a list of Relocated Items. Now an attempt to open it gets the message "The operation can’t be completed because the original item for “Relocated Items” can’t be found."

Edit: Possible clue....one of my old 32 bit apps, Passwords Plus, still works. Could it be thinking that Mojave is still on the main drive?

The fact that a 32-bit app works indicates you do not have a 64-bit only operating system.

You might need to do a complete erase of the hard drive and reinstall of the newer system using System Recovery and then bring everything over via Time Machine during the new system installation process. I still maintain that with Time Machine as the source during restore for all your stuff you will not lose anything.

suggests that TM may not be the way to go.

I'd go with an erase/clean install (as you've suggested) combined with migration from the old iMac.

Update on Time Machine. It's on a 1TB drive and indicates only 73 GBs left, so it has clearly added 100's of GBs. Prior to the upgrade, my drive had less than 400 GBs on it.

By way of clarification...this is not my newer machine. This is still the old one, so a complete wipe becomes a dicey proposition. I had upgraded to Big Sur only to see if the new Quicken would work for me.

Just a thought. This machine is capable of going to Ventura. Would a Ventura install, using the System Preferences link, clean things up?

I'm confused.

Didn't you say that you want to give the old iMac to the grandkids but wipe it first?

Absolutely correct, and that's still the plan. I wanted to make sure everything was okay with this machine, like removing digital detritus, so that I would have the Time Machine as clean as possible if I was going to use it to populate the new machine. Definitely this machine is going to get wiped and get a fresh OS install, but I can't wipe it without knowing my stuff is okay.

So now I'm faced with getting this machine sorted out before I can get a reliable Time Machine. Or....

By this, do you mean forget about Time Machine altogether, boot the new machine (still in the box), and try to get my stuff from this machine Mac-to-Mac? I'm not clear on how that would be done, given that Migration Assistant doesn't seem to offer options other than entire accounts, all Files and Folders, et cetera. Wouldn't I be taking a chance on porting over all the problems? So, to my earlier question...

Would the Venture install get rid of all existing system stuff, whether Mojave or Big Sur?

Although the Time Machine drive is jam packed, Disk Utility appears to tell a different story about what should be on the Time Machine drive:

• APFS System Snapshot - APFS
• macOS 11.7.2
* Used 15.32 GB
• Other Volumes 537.76 GB
• Free 474.6 GB
• 1.03 TB Shared by 5 volumes

• Capacity 1.03 TB
• Available 484.57 GB (9.96 purgeable)
• Used: 15.32 GB
• Type APFS System Snapshot
• Owners: Diabled
• Connection: PCI-Express
• Device: disk2s5s1
• Snapshot UUID: 9955E931-36BA-4A11-9EBB-B8FA2A6A9615

Possibly interesting bit of information....

I was just updating my Epson Scanner software and the Epson site "detected" OS 10.15.x instead of OS 11.7.2. Does that mean Mojave is hanging around?

1. Time Machine NO LONGER BACKS UP OR RESTORES SYSTEM FILES.
2. Carbon Copy Cloner NO LONGER BACKS UP OR RESTORES SYSTEM FILES.
3. Restoring the System is accomplished by booting from the Recovery Drive and re-installing the OS.

Without full hands on access to your systems potentially for several hours, I can only make a W.A.G. about the what or how of either of your backups much less whether or not they could be relied on. It is highly doubtful that any such analysis would be productive. What would be productive is restoring your old system to a stable, clean operating state for your grandkids and getting your new system up and running with your data.

• If, by any chance, you have your data and especially your Desktop and Documents folders synchronized with iCloud, Boot up your NEW computer, recreate your account and password, log on to your Apple ID, turn on iCloud synch and in a few hours you will be up and running with all your data and settings. Then erase the time machine drive and select it as the Time Machine drive on your new computer.
• Boot your OLD computer from the Recovery Drive, erase the hard drive, re-install the OS, and give the computer to your grandkids.

Have booted the new computer but can't see how I do that. There isn't even an iCloud icon in System Preferences.

I found Apple ID and added Desktop to the choices and it looks like the desktop is just appearing. However, I assume iCloud Sync, once I know how to find it, should update everything else (like my Mail, which shows zero messages), and also recreate my wife's account. Yes? No?

I have gotten the same thing from the Epson website when updating printer drivers. Apparently, Epson has not figured out how to detect the correct OS. When I did this, I clicked the arrow to select a different OS and OS 11 appeared. I then proceeded to download the driver. It installed with no issue.

Thank you for that but my concern wasn't Epson's ability to detect OS's. I wondered if their detection of OS 10.15 was evidence that Mojave was still on the hard drive. i.e. Did the Big Sur installation fail to remove the existing OS?

I was aware of those facts, which caused me to wonder why TM and CCC now want to copy material that is vastly more than previously. There has not been a dramatic increase in the non-system material.

Important Question

I am able to connect the two machines via an ethernet cable. If I do that, and then instruct Migration Assistant to bring over my account and my wife's account, will it do so without any of the system stuff that appears to be the issue?

That's unlikely. Epson's failure, in my case, was theirs alone and not a faulty OS installation.

I don't think an ethernet connection will work.

I think you'll have to boot the source iMac into FireWire target disk mode (or its current equivalent) and connect it to the destination via USB or one of the other protocols.

Once you do that, you can instruct MA to migrate only your accounts.

Question: Have you examined your old iMac with a "where has my space gone" app such as DaisyDisk for Mac?

No, but that's an interesting suggestion.....first time I've heard about DaisyDisk. And, reciprocating with a question..."Will it identify two separate OS's, if they are present?

My preference would be to have the ability to take a good Time Machine backup drive and attach it to the new machine which, of course, means I need to know the TM has reliable information. I continue to be puzzled by the fact that "Get Info" says the TM drive has used 917GB of 999.86 GB capacity. However, "Get Info" says the computer's drive with a capacity of 1.03 TB has only used 555.96 GB.

Assuming the new computer is running Ventura you will find iCloud settings by...

1. Opening System Settings
2. clicking on Apple ID
3. click on iCloud
4. click on iCloud Options
5. Select the folders and applications you want to synchronize

Assuming it was synched in your old system, YES!

The new computer is running Monterey. Is this the show-stopper?

I did open ICloud anyway and all the boxes are checked but there is no button to initiate an action.

In my account, which is a new account required to boot the machine (it has a different name than my account on the old machine) most stuff is there except Mail. Mail is mostly vacant, which seems odd because that is the one thing definitely synched acroos the iMac, iPad and iPhone.

My wife's account is not there.

I may have found the answer to the TM problem.

I went to an Apple Reseller store and talked to a person there who had a reasonable explanation. He said the problem is an issue between Big Sur and previous operating systems, and the way they are structured. Time Machine "thinks" the Mojave system is still on the hard drive and therefore keeps the Mojave backup. Then, also on its drive, TM does a backup of the Big Sur system and all the files. Ergo it indicates much more information than is actually on the iMac hard drive and gets full very fast. He said that Apple has been aware of this issue for two years.

His suggestion was to erase the TM drive and do a new backup, then use that hard drive to establish the accounts et cetera on the newer iMac. I have done the new TM backup and its content is now equal in size to the iMac, and it is doing its regular backups.

Still outstanding question - need help with it.

Earlier in the thread I mentioned that the folder with all my data files (brought over by Drag and Drop), is now on the desktop whereas it was previously always on the hard drive icon. How do i get it back there? Dragging and Dropping does not work.

I took a look at that problem in Ventura, and I was unable to either create a new folder at that location or drag one there.

The best I could do was under /Users.

I tried to create your folder in Terminal with "cd HD" followed by "makdir..." I had no luck...not even with "cd."

I dunno what's up, but man seems to have changed in Ventura, and I'm having all sorts of trouble working with it.

Even my old reliable Bwana app has stopped working.

With that minor edit, you got that last right!

I have no idea what you did, or why it failed but obviously it did fail. My suggestion is to start over and this time, do it Apple's way.

1. DO NOT MOVE ANYTHING VIA DRAG AND DROP
2. Disconnect the Time Machine drive from your old computer
3. Connect the Time Machine drive to your new computer
4. Follow these instructions to boot your new Mac into the Recovery Drive mode
5. From the Utilities menu on the Recovery Drive launch Disk Utility
6. Select Macintosh HD (the Volume not the Drive itself
7. On the Disk Utility menu select Erase
8. Choose GUID partition scheme and APFS as the format
9. Click Erase
10. Quit Disk Utility
11. Launch Install macOS and follow the instructions until it asks if you want to recover from a Time Machine backup
12. Choose the Time Machine drive
13. Choose all the restore options
14. Go watch a good movie on TV for a few (2 or 3) hours
15. When the installer and Migration Assistant have completed, your system will reboot from Macintosh HD and all of your and your wife's data files will have been restored.
16. Log onto your account and trash the "Recovered files"folder on your desktop, if it exists.
17. Launch System Settings > Time Machine and choose the Time Machine Drive
18. When asked if you want to assign the Time Machine backups on the drive to the new computer, answer in the affirmative.
19. Enjoy your new iMac.

ryck was trying to restore a "Data" folder to the TOP level of his iMac, i.e., the same level as /Apps.

I'm not sure how he got it there in the first place, nor was I able in any way, shape, or form of which I'm aware to create such a folder on my MBP. (The best I could was get a new "Data" folder into /Users.)

Will Time Machine be able to do the job, or is it simply precluded in current macOS versions?

That folder should NOT be trashed until it's been looked into and it's been determined that nothing in it is important.

It has contained pretty much the same files every time I've examined it, but on one occasion I got careless/lazy and wound up trashing the part of Keychain Access that contained my self-installed passwords.

AAARGH!!!

The instructions that followed have worked and the newer computer is now the same as the old. There are still a few things to do, like decommissioning MS Office on one and recommissioning it on the other, but things otherwise seem to be okay. Except....I'd sure like to get that Data folder showing up on the HD icon instead of the Desktop.

There are a few items like the Epson Scanner not wanting to work with the new OS but I'll start separate issue-specific threads.

Thank-you.