Home Forums Hardware Mac Desktops & Notebooks New Mac every thing slower

Though start separate thread..

New Mac Mini, getting 10 second beachballs constantly, have not seen years: opening finder windows, icloud finder windows, opening folders external internal hardrive, saving word doc,

Coming from 2015 27: to new 2020 bought 2022, 16 GB Ram M1, much slower, stumped.

May be improving with shutdown, reboot see, not sure...startling to see beach balls again...

Leave it up and running at least overnight. There is a lot of processing going on in the background right now.

Thanks JOe, did not know. starting to see improvement.. see what happens.

It should settle, but it can take a few days to complete the changes, rearrangements, indexing, etc. and all that eats CPU cycles and slows everything else down.

Update:
Did sell old 27" $400... mentioned could be internal hd issues down the road.

The beachball is around. This is real killer, come and goes, but when comes... 5 to 15 sec, so have to figure that out. They say M1 needs less ram but maybe not true -- only 16 ram? Crazy, as feels like a slower computer by far than the old 2015 27"

Drive X did form and direct email no response. So the software that instigated the upgrade, does not work on externals for M1 or the owner does not care about customers?

At this point, I am beginning to wonder if your two issues, beach-balling and DriveDX not reporting external drives, are related

1. Did you ever uninstall and reinstall DriveDX?
2. Please describe how your external drives are connected including any hubs, cable types, port adaptors, etc.
3. Is "Put Hard disk to sleep when possible" on or off?

Thanks JOe

Yes did delete Drive X to trash, (not uninstall, did not find uninstall tool) deleted and reinstalled drive X

2 externals are in hub per force, but the one important one is not in hub, it's direct to Mac Mini

Put Hard disk to sleep when possible was in fact unchecked. Checking it now. Let's hope help?

Called apple , same issue with test user. Did reinstall Mac OS, same issue, beach balls all over . I'm stumped, would you recommend returning computer? or?

PS... or maybe after the reinstall of Mac os beachball is normal? Things rebuilding again?. Gotta tell you JOe. Of four apple techs today, no one had a clue about why a new machine would have a beachball issue. You are only one who has said, implied this is not abnormal ie, things have to settle, (ie spotlight) so who knows, maybe needs a 2nd settling time after putting in a new OS?

Also tech guy did not do the hardware diagnostic.. so do that in a bit..

Then if times goes on.. take it in store? These techs are just pulling things from articles reading. They have no clue..

JUst when want access folders either in icloud or external plugged into M! then 10 - 15 sec beachball. .. Could live with it for 5 years really unitl next Mac.... don't know if have stomach to continue doing another migration even if they give me a new machine -- just really weird to have beachballs again, kind of like back to '98 and G4 first one got....

Final point/ questions. "maybe " better after reinstall Mac os.. Bottom line, seems to beachball when touching a hardrive, whether external or icloud or... and has not visited that hardrive or folder in awhile or that part / folder in awhile. Then ok.. then some times goes on and does again. Hence do see beach ball every day. Then knows that folder or hardrive and is ok for ahile.

Maybe bit better.... Diagnostic test went good , no issues. Would still take in store, bother with that? 3 days left to get money back.. would try ask new machine? (huge pita doing all that migration again though.. but? )

Or just live with it? Test so far, first aid DU, Diagnostic, reinstall OS, could new same machine be better or? Maybe just nature of M1 vs older Silicon had? (just odd see beachballs again) They not for 5min.. just 15 sec... then normalize, comes back.

There is nothing wrong with your M1 Mac mini, but there are possible issues with some of your settings in System Preferences. I should have thought of these earlier, but I have been distracted by family matters.

The beach-ball is the normal delay necessary for "rotating rust" drives to come “up-to-speed” when they have been asleep. Go to System Preferences > Energy Saver > and be sure “put hard drive to sleep when possible” is turned OFF (unchecked). While you are there, consider turning "Prevent your Mac from automatically sleeping ON to further reduce startup lag.

As to the DriveDX issue, go to System Preferences > Security & Privacy > Privacy > Files & Folders and verify DriveDX appears, and Removable Volumes is turned ON.

One more thing. You can download the M1 compatible SAT SMART driver used in DriveDX here

Joe, great thanks Whew, lotta work but got Drive X to work! Have to approve: of guy never heard of with Russian sounding, name, how is that for starters... Kirill Luzanov. suppose super smart guy who created Drive X, but does not answer emails or his own contact form, and does not put the more normal DriveX name in that list.. but scary Kirill Luzanov to approve check (googled it it's drivex) but oh well works, now.

That said, this all required me to change from FULL SECURITY to REDUCED SECURITY
https://support.apple.com/guide/security/startup-disk-security-policy-control-sec7d92dc49f/web

Your opinion on that Joe? (was I on reduced security while using drivex on the old imac, and is that not so Kosher to be on reduced security?

Ok beachballs, did the system pref, stuff, thanks...as you said.. still think the plague of them will continue on. Not life and death.. not 1 min beachblass from 90s to be fair.. Mostly 10 15 sec when accessing folder/ hardrive.
Still have not seen that even in long time, and every day...

But I think that's just way it is you agree? Maybe something with my system and M1 that creating this "rotating rust" as you call it? Boy lot more "rotating rust" with me and M1 than the silicon 2016 27".......

And I can call 10 apple senior techs and they don't even get this "rotating rust" concept.. they just go to the boilerplate reinstall, test this.. blah blah, fine.

But no more hope for that correct. Just get used to it? btw the rotating rust, only last few hours even with hardrive not sleeping, or at least with M1... by afternoon, few hours rust sets in again... Maybe the M2 M3..will be better?

I have had to run with reduced security since getting an M1 Mac because it is the only way to install some kernel extensions such as SoftRAID until Apple finishes work on their long promised extension “kit” which will permit third-party kernel extensions to run in the user area. Personally I would prefer to run with full protection, but the fix is in Apple's court.


Rotating rust is an old timer's nickname for hard drives. A hard drive is a rotating glass or aluminum disk coated with a layer of media capable of holding a magnetic charge. The media is typically a form of ferrous oxide, and ferrous oxide is the chemical name for “rust” – thus the nickname “rotating rust”. When a hard drive “sleeps” the disk stops spinning to save energy, so when the drive wakes up the disk has to spin up to speed (5,400 or 7,200 rpm) before it can be accessed. Because the drive motors are low powered and, do not have much torque there is an inevitable lag between the drive being awakened and reaching the proper speed for accurate reading and writing. There are two possible ways to eliminate the lag...

1. Replace the hard drive with an SSD, which has obvious cost implications.
2. Never allow the drive, or system, to sleep (ie. spin down), which explains the settings changes.

Even if a hard drive is already rotating at the correct rpm, there is still a delay, called “seek time” while the read/write head is mechanically placed over the proper track and still further delay, called “lag time”, waiting for the desired sector to rotate under the read/write head.

All of this has always been there, but your M1 Mac mini is tuned to work with an SSD that is literally on the same “fabric” as the memory and CPU and therefore has virtually zero communications or access time delay. External hard drives are so slow in comparison that a “beach ball” is generated. It is the computer's equivalent of “twiddling its thumbs”.


Always look to see what else is going on, and how your external drives are connected. For example, if you have two drives connected to the same USB 3.0 port, whether it is through daisy chain or hub, if Time Machine, or another task is accessing a drive on the port it will delay and slow access to the other drive.

Actually, the solution is not in the computer, rather in replacing the external hard drives with something like this, or this. Even this would work because the enclosure has a large built-in memory buffer. (Look at the prices and you will know why I continue to use HDs for my Time Machine backups )

Thanks Joe, well I love DRive X, ... still how dangerous is running with reduced security. I don't understand it the details on it.., what could happen more likely than full?


BTW I think (can't remember now if I was sleeping hardrive on the 27" imac - ie sleep when possible, I think I had that at yes...)... sleep hardrive if possible, is that optimal, ie go to bed. 8 hours and then uncheck the HD wont sleep, bad, if have it for 5 years? In other words with that unchecked, the hardrive will last less? or...? not?


On rotating rust.. but I mentioned this happens also, lag, beach ball with the Cloud folder and things in that folder not just externals. Maybe sometimes even with the Mac HD ssd, but don't know, as don't click on it too much.

So its the M1 with old style hardrives and the icloud folder... better with pre M1 computers? the Lag, Rust?


Yeah, my Seagate 8TB were $100 to $150.. yet no issue with the 27".. so this will continue, and you vote to just get used to it... ? Right weird new trade off, but I suppose no choice.... still that icloud folders beachball lag same as external, nothing one can do for that..?

You would think this would be known subject, but no apple tech, and nothing online I can find talks about this topic.

Assuming you have information on your computer, which if revealed could result in grave harm to the security of the United States then I would not run with reduced security. Otherwise while it is not optimum, I find it an acceptable risk.


There are three schools of thought on that:

1. Sleeping the drive will extend the drives lifespan
2. Stopping and starting the drive is more harmful that letting it run
3. Technological advances and need for more storage will be the probable reason for its replacement, not wear and tear.

Number 3 has proven true for me in the majority of cases.


Unless you can repeal the speed of light or your computer is colocated in the same room with the iCloud servers, a slight delay in accessing files is inescapable. Accessing a single file may involve hundreds of data packets, each traveling through a unique set of network servers and links and potentially thousands of miles of wire, microwave, and even satellite links to reach your computer, be checked for accuracy and finally reassembled in the correct order.

As for the external drives, use SSDs instead of HDs, and Thunderbolt instead of USB and $ instead of ¢. The apparent slowdown is because the computer is proportionally so much faster that it spends more time waiting for the data than your iMac did and the beach ball is the equivalent of the computer tapping its feet waiting for the external drive to respond.


It is a known subject called “computer engineering”. It is a five-year degree to get the very basics, and half of what you learn in that five years will become obsolete within the next five years. Even then, it typically takes years of experience for it to really gel into a comprehensively coherent whole.

Thanks Joe good insights, final observation:
Just remembered my M1 Macbook Air, got year 1/2 ago. Now only use it lightly in kitchen, email/ internet, no external hardrives on it.. still I do command N finder defaults to that same Icloud drive folder, and have not seen a beach on that laptop. Any idea on that, and why then seen beachball on same icloud... drive with M1 Mac Mini - but not the M1 lalptop?

Without spending your money on network analysis software I can only make wild guesses, but just because both devices are on the same network does not mean they are on the same band (2.4GHz vs 5GHz), the same channel, are subject to the same signal interference, and have equal signal strength from the router. Any one, or more, of those factors can effect Wi-Fi network speed and response time and therefore iCloud response time. That is at least six semester hour topic.

Interesting Joe, thats a good enough answer right there! I'll take that.

Also Joe, don't know can guess, but Magic keyboard f1, f2 keys wont change brightness anymore with the new Asus monitor, though some other keys don't care about ie, F4 and F5 work...

I have had mixed results with the brightness function keys.

1. On my studio running Ventura, they work on my LG Fine Thunderbolt monitor, but not on the LG Full HD HDMI monitor.
2. On my wife's M1 Mac mini running Monterey, they have no effect on her Apple LED Cinema Display.

All I can suggest is to verify the settings in System Preferences > Keyboard > Keyboard and be sure the box labeled “Use F1, F2 keys as standard function keys” is checked. Also look at System Preferences > Displays and try different monitor profile settings. (NOTE: The Fn key mentioned in System Preferences > Keyboard > Keyboard has disappeared from the extended keyboards.)

Thanks Joe, darn no luck; in reverse: when uncheck use F1 F2 and standard function keys, do work as the icon it has on key.... ie volume, which I suppose most useful after brightness. The F3 and F4 also both both work when that is unchecked, never use those two. Should be opposite you should have box checked for those to work right? Alas, F1, F2 don't work checked or unchecked. Sent a message to ASus, Apple tech thought odd the brightness slider was not there in display. so mentioned that to them. I did test fer other monitors with dropdown, still did not work. (of course I don't have those monitors, so maybe thats why it who knows..)

PS Joe, this just in right now, I sent an email to owner of esteemed Mac software that studies your system give it a rating, good / excellent with pdf ... (that think you may have recommended starts with an "E"), after four days his response. . Anyway he does not have the background of whats going on as deep as you do, on this current question of beachball and m1, but I did mention the beachball, and going from the 27" to mac mini M1.

Honestly, don't know if I have stomach to do an erase and manual reinstall of everything as he is suggesting.. man PHotoshop, Mac Mail..email that take hour and hours of time... I wrote him just because we exchanged a bunch of emails in past on how to run read/ understand his software analysis, which I still don't understand fully.. In reality my old and current machine both say "excellent"..

You would do all that erase if in my shoes right? I actually did a full erase an reinstall of a backups of Mac HD just 3 months ago or so.. but not all apps etc. From him just now:
Maybe the bit about the hub or usb, you can speak to? or just leave all alone.. ok?



"Hello again Kevs,
When I looked for your previous e-mails, I found 38 of them. That strongly suggests that whatever you are doing, you should probably do the exact opposite. Clearly, this isn’t working.

My recommendation would be to erase your hard drive and reinstall the operating system. When you restore your data, restore only your user accounts and user data. Do not restore any “applications” or “other files”. Then, manually reinstall only the software that you absolutely, literally cannot live without.

Also, you have a USB 2.0 hard drive connected. The drive appears to be USB 3.0, but is connected using a “Via Labs” USB 2.0 hub. That can slow down your entire system.

Your other hard drives are USB 3.0, but two of them, including the USB 2.0 connection, seem to have operating systems installed. That can also slow down the entire system. External hard drives should be for Time Machine backups or data files. External files with operating systems installed with slow down the entire computer.
"

BTW Joe if you think this analysis is bunch of hocus pocus, I'm ok with that.. don't have to analyze it if don't want to ; or maybe just be amusing... or ?

Most of what ...says unlike with you... flies over my head -- which is why I had that email exchange in past as could not understand the pdf readouts... really just looked at if said performing good or excellent. That said, if have energy to be amused, this bit later:

since last post:




from J..."Kevs,
If you restore user accounts and user documents, then it should restore all app settings too. You need to avoid restoring applications and “other files”. You don’t want things like “tinker tool” or Virtual Box on the new computer.

There is a good chance that one of those 3rd party system modifications, or some combination of them, is what is giving you all these problems.

If your external drive was an SSD, there would be no difference. USB 2.0 is much slower than even the slowest mechanical hard drive."





My reply:

J...thanks. I bought a 10 port Xcellon Hub few years ago. I not sure if its’ usb 2 or 3, I think 3, I just sent them an email right now to ask. I don’t see word Excellon in system report sadly.

I just bought two brand new hardrives by Seagate:

https://www.amazon.com/Seagate-Expansion-Desktop-External-Drive/dp/B093BWLBYY/ref=sr_1_6?crid=1TIH4GHBTBDE7&keywords=seagate+expansion&qid=1660625035&sprefix=seagate+expansion%2Caps%2C132&sr=8-6

and

https://www.seagate.com/consumer/backup/backup-plus-desk/

Both 8tb, one for data going right into the Mac Mini, other is TM, going into Xcellon hub.

The third external is a 5TB year old Seagate. Guessing that is usb 3

Both of these are advertised at usb 3.0. Here are screenshot.

The part about them having operating systems is completely over my head, have no idea what that means. I did not install any Seagate software. Also I dont’ see Tinker Tool, or Virtual Box in my app folder.

Besides all that if you don’t think SSD drives would solve beach ball issue having with M1 Mac Mini (can’t afford that anyway); then what is your theory on why this entire setup had no beachball problem with the 2016 iMac 27” that preceded the new M1 Man Mini?

some screenshot from dRive x and the system info Thanks.

https://imgur.com/a/jocH1Kd

https://imgur.com/a/W9x7VN4

The complete “nuke & pave” (erase & reinstall) sounds like overkill to me, but that is always an option. Unfortunately, unless you do it correctly, you risk re-installing the same problem. I have no experience with Virtual Box, but it could slow down your I/O. I have used Tinkertool for decades and have never had an issue with it. Personally, I can't imagine how it could affect I/O performance.

I agree completely with the remarks about USB 2 and USB 3. The maximum throughput of any USB is limited to the speed of the slowest device in the chain. That includes the ports, cables, and devices and why I asked about your exact configuration. If the Hub is USB 2.0, then it determines the speed of the entire circuit, and you are limited to 2.5 Gbps, regardless of what speed the attached drives are capable of. Hubs are cheap, but often their supported USB protocol is unmentioned and can be difficult to ascertain. The USB hubs I use are all rated USB 3.1 Gen 2 (10 Gbps) and are hard to find. I have actually replaced all my USB cables with cables rated for Thunderbolt 4 (which was expensive). The trick there is finding Type C to Type A port adapters rated at least USB 3.1 Gen 2 (10 Gbps) and those too are difficult to find.

JOe, thanks, will be going with your advice! I don't even see Virtural Box in app folder! Maybe I tested it years ago , not never.. Tinker tool same.

Ok he is saying though that the 2 new Seagates bought, have apps and an os..? I don't see any of that... It not clear which of my 3 external are usb 2 or 3.. totally confusion. I think the 10 port hub is USB, confirming now with the company.
Joe, did see those links / screenshot, that is the configuration too no? He is not clear on what could/ should do pertaining to the externals... see my question on that... maybe I could get you the Etra report too i



This just in this morning from J:

There is some internal data in the EtreCheck report regarding USB hubs. It is difficult to understand and show, so I don’t show it. But the word “Xcellon” never occurs. All of your USB hubs are identified as "VIA Labs, Inc.”. Some are USB 3.0 and some are USB 2.0. Perhaps some ports are USB 3 and some ports are USB 2. This particular drive seems to be “close” to a Canon D530/560 device and a Logitech MX518 Gaming Mouse.

Your screenshots clearly show “USB 2.0”.

The 8 TB “Seagate Expansion” USB 2.0 and the 5 TB “Seagate Backup+ Desk” USB 3.0 both have Preboot, Recovery, and VM volumes. This means they are macOS boot volumes. All of the apps on those volumes could potentially be run at any time. If you try to launch an app, or some other app launches an app on your behalf, or if you try to update an app, the app that is picked could be on any volume. The operating system doesn’t care. Perhaps you should carefully review what is on these volumes and why you have them attached.

As I’ve said before, you have many years of old software installed on this new computer. Some of that software is incompatible. It could be buggy. Some of it doesn’t run at all.

Your EtreCheck report does not show any performance problems. Therefore, any performance problems you are experiencing are due to normal operating system behaviour. All of those old apps and ancient data busses are simply too slow. The operating system expects all of its apps and data to be designed for macOS Monterey and installed on the internal SSD running at 3000 MB/s. Instead, it has to search through 3 different hard drives, one running 10 times slower, and the other running 100 times slower, installed on three different operating systems. It does this tens of thousand of times per day. That’s what causes the beachballs.



My reply:

thanks, the apps in the external hard drives is over my head. I don’t see any apps or Os in in those hard drives- just my data..

The canon 530 is my printer connected, and I have Logitach corded mouse.

Some of those you mentioned I don’t see in my app folder.

The million dollar question John, is why with all this… same hardrives.. was running fine on the 2016 imac 27” with no beachball issue.

The beachballs are annoying, daily, but not so bad.. 10 sec here, 15 sec there, never got this before with older 2016 imac, same hardrive same everything.


PS J , I don’t think stomach to do erase and manaul install of everything, would take dozens and dozens of hours.

You think if replaced hardrives… or the 10 port hub that could solve it? Can you say which ones ( 3 externals there)

Also I don’t see Virtual Box or Tinker Tool. Most software I use every now and then… you would scour hard and delete any apps not usuing.