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BTW beachball is back, darn, thought over..

Have you recently installed the macOS 12.15.1 update?

The next time you get a “beach ball”, look closely at the Time Machine icon on the menu bar to see if it is “rotating”.

Thanks JOe, I'm on 12. 5. 1 (though was not sure till you brought it up!)

Ok never looked at that TM icon before, will do. KEep an eye on it.

Also Code 42 is in activity monitor top a lot. Crash Plan, nice 3rd party cloud back up for Terrabytes you back up.. in cloud...... though I do remember the beachball when Code 42 was disabled. So not sure culprit I 'll try to test that more.

"Window Server" is also at very top, All the time, though not sure what that is.

Joe don't think maybe that exist anymore where TM spins in menu bar?

From the layers of protection in your system, I presume you wear at least two belts and two pair of suspenders. Seriously, multinational corporations don't have as many levels of protection as you. Code 42 duplicates a portion of Apple Platform Security, but only a portion. Crash Plan replicates of what is already provided by Time Machine and CCC. With all of that going on in the background, slowdowns, collisions, etc. are inevitable.


It is a macOS function that manages the windows and icons on your desktop. The more icons on your desktop, the more CPU cycles Window Server will use to generate the desktop image.


It still exists here on Intel and M1 Macs running Monterey and one running Ventura. However, the processing time is so short it is hard to notice.

JOe thank, so $10 month Crashplan, but here is deal: While have TM in house and have external at Bank.... this is let's say robbery/ fire, and have not updated at bank for couple months.. so all you work would be safe, ie in cloud Crashplan, still think overkill? or worth $10 in that "robbery/ fire " situation.? Not using Apple icloud as you are I think ( I just use iclould for 30GB of important documents), so that the backup for that.. opinion

Ok not Crashplan, Code42, I did pause, and beachball still up.

That older external Seagate however just rated 92% down yesterday from 99% in Drive X, hence, think might be good for $110 or so replace right? At 97% this morning, hang onto it, ok.. or?

Ok have been using desktop as convenience for projects, for sure, a lot, you say bail on that? Not actually only 7-8 things on desktop, still beachball. so? Could Try clear desktop? . Window servers is always top of activity monitor, but this article says, lot of other issues Window server, including Launch agents, tone other thing, too much to deal with quickly,

https://macsecurity.net/view/393-windowserver-mac#:~:text=First%20things%20first%2C%20here%20is,behavior%20on%20the%20Mac's%20screen.

Not even sure mention desktop in article.

Ok, will clear desktop as test. see what happens, but that article?

Update, break for beachballing bit, not sure why but Window server still high in activity monitor even with desktop cleared off. 27%

Aslo CCC and Dropbox in there quite bit, even though not being used, wonder way,/ good get them our of activity monitor somehow.

Activity Monitor is a useful tool that has been around since the days of single core processors and while it has been updated to work with multicore processors, it has not been fully adapted to the new reality. Too many people still read Activity Monitor as if the system still has only a single processor core, which makes it easy to misinterpret the statistics. Focusing entirely on the percentage will invariably lead you to false conclusions, and bad decisions.

• The number is a percentage of the CPU cycles for a single CPU core. The M1 processor has eight CPU cores. So, even if a task shows it is using 100% of a given core that is still only 12.5% of the available CPU cycles.
• In your case that would mean Activity Monitor is using a bit over 3% of the available CPU cycles. (It is a bit more complicated than that because not all cores are equal. Some are much faster than others, and macOS switches tasks between the high-speed and low-speed cores on demand.)
• Any given task can show it is running 200, 300, or greater percentage of the CPU cycles by running on multiple cores, which occurs frequently.
• Activity monitor does not indicate whether the core is a high-speed or low-speed core
• Window barely reaches the level of background noise and is certainly nothing to worry about.

The only way to get Dropbox and CCC out of Activity Monitor is to delete them from your system. That way, they can't run and therefore will not use any CPU or GPU cycles. Activity Monitor is intended as an analytical tool. To remove items from the analysis would distort the results and render the analysis invalid.

Thanks JOe.

1- would say don't look at activity monitor? Is better tool invented yet?
2- Would you say that if DRivex shows a hardrive 97%, then dips to 92% replace that drive (this is one 5-6 years old) or the drives is still good to go?
3- Did see that link on Windows issues, and is this culprit or not culprit. Would you keep things off the desktop? (did test oddly even with desktop cleared that still shows) maybe negligible? That article had endless amount of possible culprits.
4- From what described as backup system, ie, bank, every 2 -3 months, would still bail on Crashplan, and save the $120 year.... and the extra processes takes from computer? ( ie is unlikely calculated risk, that all local drives here could be wiped out..in one shot.. fire/ theft/nuclear war.. never happened but, curious your opinion)

Activity Monitor is useful tool when the results are carefully analyzed by an informed and knowledgeable user. When used by the average or uninformed user, it can be very misleading.
Marcel Bresink's System Monitor and the add on System Monitor Plus provides some of the same information and offers multiple ways to display it, but it still requires informed analysis to use correctly. He also has Macpower Monitor that is custom tailored for M12 Macs and shows usage/peformance on a CPU by CPU basis, but tells nothing about what tasks are using the CPUs. To get the full picture, a knowledgeable user would end up using all of these tools.


When it gets down to the 25 to 30% I would start shopping.


I never have more than one or two items on my desktop.


In the event of a nuclear war, I can't believe you would give a D@^& about your data. I put my Desktop and Documents folders on iCloud which is free and uses a negligible amount of CPU resources.

Ok Joe thanks final bits

1- going to get those three monitor apps thanks.
2- ok lets say burglary/ fire... never happend but don't think crashplan worth trade off if did? I'd have to go bank, and that could be 2 months old... I think, too expensive Mac to do icloud for 3-4 tB I have on main data drive. IDea: Maybe cold some new folder icloud for "new" work and transfer that over every couple months after updating the bank drive, but bit of hassle. Also I've had a conflict in past where lost some icloud files, thing got mangled there, so kept it to minimum
3. I did not know having things on desktop is so bad... but that's what you have realized? Why is that? DEsktop is just another folder in Mac HD, no? And it's not that many things... 6 screenshot, few new folders, then all get eventually sorted to other drives.
4 That link on Window server... is bunch of hocus pocus or is that a good link?

No offense, but based on your questions and responses, this additional information is more likely to cause you more confusion and less clarity.


If you go to System Preferences > Apple ID an...n [url=https://imgur.com/ghmhCET]Options and check Desktop & Documents folders, everything on your your Desktop and in the Documents folder are automatically and transparently mirrored on the iCloud Drive. Whaat could be simpler and easier than that?


The Desktop is a folder but a special kind of folder as well as a Window. Everything you see [b]in any window is a graphic image that must be processed, generated, and managed by Window Manager. The only way of eliminating Window Manager is to open Terminal and do all of your work using nothing but command line tools.


It is a good attempt at explaining everything that is going on in Window Manager. Window Manager is not a single task with a single purpose rather a collection of many tasks necessary to provide the GUI interface that is the hallmark of macOS. To re-iterate, The only way of eliminating Window Manager is to open Terminal and do all of your work using nothing but command line tools.

Ok Joe, thanks, will try to learn these (System Monitor, Power Monitor, and System Plus) over time, but ask now : If you had a beachball flare up, what is the first things you would immediately, look for there?

In Activity Monitor I would start by attempting to discern the bounding hardware resource by looking at...

1. The overall system CPU load to see if the beachball is a result of a “compute bound” task.
2. IF the CPU load is high then I would look at how much of that load is due to user tasks
3. I would also look at Memory Pressure to see if the problem was caused by insufficient memory resources.
4. Finally I would look at how much disk activity to see if the task is I/O bound.

System Monitor will give a more dynamic customized picture of CPU, Memory, and I/O load and does not use as many CPU cycles as Activity Monitor but requires constant user attention. Mac Power Monitor provides a unique picture of how the load is distributed among the M12 cores. But neither of these indicate specific tasks.

Once the bounding resource is determined, then, and only then, will you know where to look for potential problem tasks. If none of these areas is maxing out, the beachball may be related to the physical connections to external devices or the configuration or those connections.

Joe, funny, I do look at that first, and interestedly, when beachball, come.. The idle number is not too bad. But what is compute bound mean? The system number you circled you would like over or under what number?

Same question on user task, and memory, and disc activity. Trying get feel what numbers/ thresh-hold you consider disturbing.

What does this mean, "not use as many CPU cycles as Activity Monitor "

I see 8 cores from menu items.. Just blue waves, not too high, and only 5 cores have waves. 3 are blank. So if wave is very high arching, thats the sign?

"be related to the physical connections to external devices or the configuration or those connections." You are saying cables could be the culprit? Those from external hard drives to Mac Mini. I think now all brand now.. with an exception, have to look... Ever discovered that a cable causing beachball.. But generally it's 96% you'd say it's something in those 3 areas: user task, and memory, and disc activity? You vote for then, making sure all cables are new? Pity not a cable tester

Has System / Mac Monitor helped you solved anything activity could not, or just nice interface?

The number in read is the percentage of that total number of CPU cycles available on all the cores that are currently on use. The number below that is the percentage of the cycles in use are user tasks. To get under the percentage indicated would probably require shutting the computer down and never turning it on again. Computer Bound means the computer is continually using 100% of all the CPU cycles on all eight cores. The cure for that is to get a faster computer with more cores, or run fewer jobs, or be patient and wait for the job to run.


There are no disturbing numbers or values. That is simply information to be analyzed.


It means Activity Monitor uses a lot of CPU cycles when it runs.


That is a sign the task running on that core, just ran and used a spurt of CPU cycles which is 100% normal operation. The three blank cores simply have nothing to do at the moment.


Cable testers are available, but cost well into six or seven figures and take extensive training to use. Typically, they are not cost-effective for the individual. A few “Rules of Thumb” are:

• You get what you pay for, and that includes the “free” cable that came with your device.
• High-quality cables are an investment, not a commodity.
• Never use a 1 Meter cable when a 1/2 Meter cable will reach
• Unless a cable is clearly marked with standard markings assume it is no better than USB 2.0.

The best Activity Monitor, System Monitor, or Mac Monitor can do is help narrow the solution space. However, Activity Monitor has served as an argument to present to my wife when I wanted to buy a new Mac. THERE IS NO MAGIC NUMBER, FORMULA, TOOL, ETC FOR SOLVING COMPUTER ISSUES OTHER THAN THE ONE LOCATED BETWEEN THE USER'S LEFT AND RIGHT EARS AND ITS CONTENTS..

Thanks JOe, well if you can get that cable tester one day in just mid 50-60 k range let me know!

Funny, guy I say it's never too late to do stand up.. Rodney D started late in 40s. Good wit.

"There are no disturbing numbers or values. That is simply information to be analyzed."... So , again, hard to find culprit. Anyway, I did clear desktop, and got externals in their own ports in back of mini. May replace cable on old one... Yet, it Still may beachball every now and then. More of the Rust, thing discussed, than brutal beach balls get in 90s and 2000s, so get used it it....


information to be analyzed.. keep learning; sent email to learn more bout those new apps recommended but seems we are, even with these apps in bit of a hall or mirrors looking outwards?

Lastly, This came up this morning

https://imgur.com/a/WsdpQqh

See it every week or so; and what's odd, it the volume is already back and running when I see the error message. Its like went out in middle of night or something.

There are special purpose systems with Artificial Intelligence problem analysis algorithms that produce a list of potential problems ranked by the probability of being the actual cause do exist, and typically cost somewhere in the lower ten digit range. Such a system for a general purpose machine like your Mac would be infinitely more complex and the database to support such a system for your Mac could take petabytes of storage.


It would be tempting to believe Quantum Computers would have the speed and processing power to solve these issues, but they will simply bring their own kinds of problems, such as super-cooling to the table. (You do keep a tank of liquid Nitrogen under your desk don't you?) (IBM does have quantum computers for sale.)


I see that occasionally as well. From personal experimentation and information bread crumbs picked up on the internet, I BELIEVE...

• ...occurs when a drive does not respond quickly enough to a read or write request from the CPU
• ...can occur with Thunderbolt and USB connected drives (but likely will require different fix for each connection type)
• ...is mitigated, but not completely solved, by setting System Preferences > Energy Saver as shown here
• ...the ultimate “fix” is up to Apple and has been in process for a few years. (Apparently the “fix” is neither simple or obvious)

Ok Joe just mirrored your settings for energy saver though enable power nap was not where, assuming cause you are in beta?

JUst had beachball, and this look, EVERY little Apple things that hangs up is there! (I'm sure 100 more, but this is pretty nice list) How does your Greek/ Latin decipher it.. ha ha.. disguised stuff, what is going on?

https://imgur.com/a/sXz7IjK

Launched, kernel task, backkups, mds stores, cloudd, isd, logd. safari browsing..

I would guess couple you never heard of, ... know mdstores is spotlight right?.. kernal task is this catch all, middle finger saying sorry you can't know... Launched though at 50 GB? top list?
And did not even get to the memory or disk...

The screenshot was from an Intel Mac mini running Monterey -- NOT BETA.


Too bad you didn't take a screenshot of the entire window, it would have been interesting to see what was shown at the bottom. With the exception of Code42service and Mail every task shown are routine macOS tasks. Backupd is, of course, Time Machine so that means a Time Machine backup was in progress and if it was backing up to your older USB 2.0 drive, that could account for the beachball. Try disconnecting the older drive and see if that has any effect on the Beach Balling. this article on mdstores has some ides in it. Kernel task is not a catchall, it is the central coordinating task of the entire system. This article covers Launchd. Any others you are curious about can be found with a simple DuckDuckGo search.

Thanks JOe here is a new one, most same stuff maybe not quite as process heavy, but similar

https://imgur.com/a/cZMbnxD

The older 5TB Seagate is 3.0 or 3.1, I tested week ago when only thing plugged in to see.

BTW, I created, "kevs desktop".. ie folder on what used to put there on new Main External. Turns out you cannot put anything data wise (right?) on Mac HD.... which is a pity as it's internal fast SSD and has 3/4 of Terrybyte free!

Nothing remarkable in any of those. For the most part you M1 Mac mini is loafing waiting for something to do.


Then there was something in the circuit that was USB 2.0


WRONG!

The Macintosh HD you see in Finder is a virtual construct consisting of elements from various volumes on the internal SSD. Some of which are untouchable by anything but the macOS installer, and most of which is freely available for your use. Everything in your home folder, including the Desktop folder, the Documents folder are on your internal SSD. The Desktop folder and the Documents folder may also be mirrored on iCloud if in System Preferences > Apple ID > iCloud > Options you have Desktop and Documents selected. The Finder display can be misleading because those folders can appear in the sidebar under iCloud and in the sidebar itself. If you look at the iCloud Drive, you will find a Desktop folder and a Documents folder. These are mirror images of the corresponding folders on the internal drive (at least until you run out of space on the internal drive, but that is another topic altogether. You can open and edit a file in either location, and the changes take place in both iCloud and the internal SSD (allowing a few seconds for synching to occur). The only difference in either one of the two copies is it may take two or three seconds longer to open the iCloud copy. That 3/4 of a Terrabyte is free and available for your use. JUST BE SURE THE FOLDER YOU PUT IT IN IS IN YOUR USER FOLDER Ie. /Users/Keys where "/" represent the root of the boot volume on your internal drive.

LEST WE FORGET

You got me so focused on Activity Monitor, I overlooked another invaluable source of information that you already have, Etrecheck Pro. Activity Monitor, System Monitor, and Mac Power Monitor show resource utilization dynamically, but Etrecheck Pro with the “Power User” option shows what is going on over time. If you go to the Performance tab in the Etrecheck Pro sidebar, you will see...

• The overall system load
• The CPU Usage overall and by core, the top CPU using tasks, the top memory using tasks
• and the top energy using tasks
• clicking on Detailed Analytics shows Usage over the last 72 hours

If there is a villainous task, it is most likely to show up here, and takes a lot less analytical prowess than Activity Monitor. As far as I am concerned, Etrecheck Pro, with the “Power User” option, is the most comprehensive and useful analytical tool available.

Under Storage, you will find the complete partition/volume structure of the boot drive. NOTE: The Macintosh HD volume is in actuality an encrypted and sealed “snapshot” created by the macOS installer, and any attempt to modify that snapshot or its contents breaks the seal and renders the system unbootable.

I find this graphic helpful in understanding the relationships between the various boot drive volumes. NOTE: It takes some time and careful study to comprehend the implications. So, good luck.

Thanks Joe,

I'm on MOnterrey, and I do not see the power nap.

"Then there was something in the circuit that was USB 2.0"
That is the 10 port Hub, or something on that Hub.

Maybe I'm rare Joe, but I choose to uncheck share desktop on my lap and imac. I like 2 distinctive desktops and documents not mirroring. Actually now after this thread, I really don't have much on desktop anyway! Also, once you choose to mirror those, then you need to pay up Apple $$ icloud drive space. I prefer just doing 50BG.

The documents folder, I've never used. I've always had my own documents folder originating on the main external for years.
That said, that would be the place then to start, if I decide to utilize that 2/3 of TB Data on an internal SSD. That user documents folder right? You cannot make a folder on root called Kevs Stuff. right?

But you used to be able too? Anyway, You agree this could be a good idea or.. But I think others have said don't put important data on you Mac HD because that is where the system is and if things for bad with system you could be screwed... Mac HD is pretty well backed up (except crashplan does not back up Mac HD, I don't think maybe ..... Anyway it's an idea as the internal SSD, is supposedly (even according to J at ettra), the Hard Drive the M1s are designed to work with best.

As far as Etra, I have Pro. Can't remember when if paid for "pro', but I did last week send $18 to upgrade to Etracheck Pro, "Power User".. I think Power User part just give nice graphic interface?

Thanks for tips on Etra I never really looked at the Performance sidebar and it does have a great look to it.. Real elegant. and shows all cores. Honestly, everything generally look, "ok", normal - I get excellent rating consistently on the new M1.. Still have not found a culprit for the M1 beachball, keep thinking.. could be as J said that M1 not made for external spinning hardrive.. more for internal SSDs... (who knows yet..)

You numbers are on the whole higher than mine about double on.. cpu %, memory used GB etc.

Storage in nice, but don't fully understand all the preboot/partition stuff, see them even on externals. (not sure it's even important to understand it)



"As far as I am concerned, Etrecheck Pro, with the “Power User” option, is the most comprehensive and useful analytical tool available."
With this newer ringing endorsement, would you say that Etrecheck Pro, with the “Power User covers virtually everything the beloved system monitor plus/ Mac Power Monitor does? (and in a more elegant way?)


BTW etra talks about it's ability to spot malware, "f you do get tricked into installing malware, EtreCheck will detect, and help you remove it"
do you know where that is?


PSS "EtreCheck has an in-app purchase available called the Power User package. This upgrade provides a enhanced user interface, additional information, and links to information on the internet. The Power User package also includes access to EtreCheck’s automated solution generator. "

Joe, even though I bought / got power user package, last week, not 100% sure where it is.. Is there way (asking here oh well), what is easiest way to know the power user package is what I'm seeing? ie, don't see anything saying "power user"

Ah ok, I think in menu, says activated, so going on.. but just don't see things obviously "power user" in the report.. so don't kind of know what is the power user stuff on the fly.

Hmmmm? I see this on my running Intel Mac mini, and thisi on my M1 Mac mini. Apparently, Power nap is not supported on Apple silicon.


FYI I have had two “unexpected disconnect” notices in the last few days, both of them were on a USB 2.0 network. This makes me suspect a timing issue with USB 2.0 connected drives. I am in the process of reconfiguring my drives in hopes I can get them all working, at least at the USB 3.0 level.


The macOS Desktop & Documents folders are not downloaded to iOS or iPadOS devices, but are accessible via the Files app and from wihin several apps. The only thing that is downloaded to your iPhone are the Music and Photos Libraries and those are reduced resolution to save storage space on the iPhone/iPAD.


The pace to start would be moving the contents of “keys Stuff” to the ~/Documents folder in your user account. If you are stuck on the name or location of the folder, create an alias of the Documents folder, name it Key's Folder and put it where you want it.


It is more complicated than Macintosh HD being where the system is: the system is in its own read-only volume on the internal drive and cannot be written to. Your data is in a separate Read & Write volume, Macintosh Data. The Macintosh HD that you are seeing is a sealed and encrypted Snapshot with firmlinks into both the system and data volumes. Backing up the system files is pointless because any attempt to restore them will break the Macintosh HD snapshot, rendering the system unbootable. The only way to restore sysstem files is to re-install the system from the Recovery Drive or a bootable installer on a thumb drive.


The detailed analysis is in the Power User option


My system has the M1 Max processor.

You don't have to understand the various volumes and what they do, just that they are there and each plays an essential role in the system.


Here is all I know.


Other than the notice in Etrecheck Pro > Power User package > there is nothing that says it is Power User or Power User Only. And, since I have Power User Package activated on all my systems I have no way to compare versions with and without.