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Re: New warning Mac HD pre fail
kevs #62127 07/25/22 10:24 AM
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Originally Posted by kevs
This implies article implies you should just see progress bar outta gate.. maybe something bad with the old 27"..

https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202731
The linked doc is from November 20, 2020, and the step-by-step has obviously been changed without its having been updated.

I just ran Apple Diagnostics/AHT on my 2019 16" Intel MacBook Pro:
  1. I shut down.
  2. I powered up and hit D after the chime.
  3. After a moment I got a second chime and then a "Select Your Network" screen.
  4. I selected my network and entered my password.
  5. I next got a "Starting...may take a while" screen.
  6. I then got a "Choose your language" screen.
  7. I finally got a "Run diagnostics" screen which offered me options to
    1. Run the test off-line and
    2. run the test on-line.
  8. I tried both options, and didn't have to wait for a d/l with either option, both of which completed pretty quickly.


(Trying to get that list within a list to render correctly was driving me crazy until I remembered a 12 1/2 year old conversation between cyn and Hal. Whew!)


The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire
Re: New warning Mac HD pre fail
kevs #62128 07/25/22 07:37 PM
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Originally Posted by kevs
PS re-reading you post again JOe, ok, clarify, is you are saying, no, don't be happy, that no errors and great looking now. That fact that is had all those errors once, even once, for couple of days, means, trouble is coming... and you would bail.

I am saying the errors are real and an indication of something wrong in the hardware associated with the internal drive in your iMac. There is no question the drive will fail [b]all drives fail eventually[b]. The question is not IF it will fail, but WHEN will it fail? The S.M.A.R.T. and NVMe attributes that propose to predict failure are based on statistics which means they are roughly accurate within one standard deviation of the mean or about 70% of the time, but the others can fail anywhere from the next few milliseconds to some time in the next decade. So there is a 15% chance that your drive will fail soon and a 15% chance you will have disposed of the iMac before it fails.

Originally Posted by keys
ie, odds of it going another nice easy year or two is unlikely? It's not freak glitch,, maybe..? if reading that right... Software may say otherwise....? if have that right.

Just because a condition is intermittent does not mean it isn't significant or that it is not a reliable indicator of system health. Anything that would cause a CRC error is not going to go away. The odds are it will get worse. More importantly, it makes it more likely that errors will occur, perhaps undetected, and you won't know when they happen and therefore will never know when your last GOOD backup occurred, making recovery very difficult.

Originally Posted by keys
Of would take calculated risk and go with no errors and hope stays ok until: M2?

I hate to lose, so I am not a good gambler. How good a gambler are you? And remember this, if you wait for the M2 iMac, there will always be an M3 iMac just around the corner.


"Sacred cows make the best hamburger"

- Mark Twain
Re: New warning Mac HD pre fail
joemikeb #62146 07/26/22 05:36 PM
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Thanks Joe, will do.

1- I had payboo card BH, but they changed banks, could not get with new bank, thinking because lost SS card, (new bank Commenity rare bank demand that), got SS card now, so may reapply, 10% off, So could save couple hundred on Mac Mini.
Called BH, and and asked if internal hardrive or Ram you add... could be 3rd party, guy said no, they get all from Apple. Besides being delayed couple weeks, any disadvantage, waiting, buying from BH over Apple direct?

2- Any software that can check integrity of CF or SD cards the as Drive X does with externals?

Re: New warning Mac HD pre fail
kevs #62152 07/26/22 07:42 PM
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Nevermind Joe on BH question, just applied Payboo, but 14 days for them to decide, and even then you part 2 with 25 forms, and then wait again, so just ordered Mini from Apple, but want comment on it anyway ok...

Re: New warning Mac HD pre fail
kevs #62154 07/26/22 08:00 PM
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Originally Posted by kevs
Nevermind Joe on BH question, just applied Payboo, but 14 days for them to decide, and even then you part 2 with 25 forms, and then wait again, so just ordered Mini from Apple, but want comment on it anyway ok...

I just wanted to point out that the reason B&H does not use third-party replacements or add-ons in Macs with Apple Silicon is they are built into the same blanket as the CPUs and GPUs and for all intents and purposes impossible to replace. Having everything “on the same blanket” is a major contributor to the performance of M1/M2 Macs because it makes communications between the processor, memory, and storage so much faster by eliminating the necessity of moving data from one to the other.

As to checking CF or SD cards and thumb drives they have no reporting technology analogous to S.M.A.R.T. or NVMe, so there is nothing to analyze. CF and SD cards were initially created for use on cameras and similar devices that lacked the processing power to analyze or do anything about that kind of data, so it was never contemplated in the standard. Similarly, thumb drives were never intended for use apart from transferring data from one device to another, so the added expense was deemed unnecessary. There are a few thumb drive like SSDs on the market and although I no longer have one I could test, I assume those would support NVMe attribute reporting.

Last edited by joemikeb; 07/26/22 08:13 PM. Reason: More information

"Sacred cows make the best hamburger"

- Mark Twain
Re: New warning Mac HD pre fail
joemikeb #62155 07/26/22 08:11 PM
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So he was telling truth? BH using all Apple stuff to create more ram, more hardrive.. anyway ordered from Apple

#2 Joe... 2- Any software that can check integrity of CF or SD cards the as Drive X does with externals?

Last edited by kevs; 07/26/22 08:11 PM.
Re: New warning Mac HD pre fail
kevs #62161 07/27/22 12:26 PM
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B&H cannot add any product by any manufacturer to an M1 or M2 Mac. They have to custom order it from Apple, just like you just did.

As for the SD and CF cards, I don't know of any tool to test their integrity. Your device will report any errors when writing to or reading from one of the cards, at which point you should immediately consign the card to the shredder.

Last edited by joemikeb; 07/27/22 12:55 PM. Reason: add SD and CF card comment

"Sacred cows make the best hamburger"

- Mark Twain
Re: New warning Mac HD pre fail
joemikeb #62168 07/27/22 06:09 PM
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kevs Offline OP
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Thanks Joe, final question while waiting for Mini to come:

All my 3 externals HD are TypeA. The mini only has two Type A ports -- and one will be for Type A hub. (other ports are thunderbolt/ usb 4 right) What think idea, (if possible/ exist), of getting a Type A to USB 4 or Thunderbolt. coverter, so at least the all external hardrives are going direct into computer (as they are all now) and not into a Hub.

Currently: Main data external, back up for that external, TM, and Hub going direct back of 27" -- 4 things, 3 hardrive and one Hub cord directly into back of 27"

Re: New warning Mac HD pre fail
kevs #62172 07/27/22 08:10 PM
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Originally Posted by kevs
Thanks Joe, final question while waiting for Mini to come:

All my 3 externals HD are TypeA. The mini only has two Type A ports -- and one will be for Type A hub. (other ports are thunderbolt/ usb 4 right) What think idea, (if possible/ exist), of getting a Type A to USB 4 or Thunderbolt. coverter, so at least the all external hardrives are going direct into computer (as they are all now) and not into a Hub.

Currently: Main data external, back up for that external, TM, and Hub going direct back of 27" -- 4 things, 3 hardrive and one Hub cord directly into back of 27"

In general I like your idea...






--- wait for it ---







--- wait for it ---






but.... (you knew I would have a but didn't you) grin

  • I had mixed results with USB 3.x devices connected to one of the Thunderbolt 4 ports using USB 3.x cables. It wasn't until I switched to a certified Thunderbolt 4 cable and a USB Type C female to USB A male adapter that I was able to achieve a reliable connection. To be honest, once I realized I could always get a reliable connection to almost any USB device using Thunderbolt 4 cables, I didn't explore the issue any further, so I have no experience using USB cables with a Type C adapter plugged into a Thunderbolt 4 port.
  • Certified Thunderbolt 4 cable is EXPENSIVE and once it goes over three feet in length it gets even more expensive because "active" connectors must be used. (I have had good results with Apple, Anker, OWC, and Cable Matters brands.)
  • Discard any connecting cable that is not clearly marked with a specific protocol on the connector or cable itself.
  • Use Female Type C to male Type A adapters rated for 3.1 gen 2 It won't make your drives exceed the USB 3.0 speed (5Gbps) but will help assure you get the maximum availalble.
  • Your USB 3.0 drives cannot send or receive data fast enough to stress the capability of the protocol, even if all three drives were daisy chained.
  • At some point it is likely you will want a Thunderbolt 4 port to support an external SSD.
  • It may take some experimentation switching cables, adapters, ports etc. to get everything right and the configuration that works on one of your external drives may or may not work on the others. confused (It all depends on how closely the builders adhered to the USB standards and there is a lot of "slop" or wiggle room in the standard.)


RECOMENDATIONS:
  • Give it a try, but be ready to do some switching around and experimentation to get everything working
  • Be sure and use only high quality certified cables and adapters.
  • If one of, or more of your drives has two USB A ports, consider daisy-chaining one or more of your drives to keep a Thunderbolt 4 port free on the Mac mini.
  • keep your cables as short as practical


"Sacred cows make the best hamburger"

- Mark Twain
Re: New warning Mac HD pre fail
joemikeb #62178 07/27/22 08:54 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
kevs Offline OP
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Thanks Joe, short cables, drives will just be foot from mini; I could use the cables i already have with adaptor?
Do you have a link?

Or.... is this worth it necessary -- if I have a couple of ports on my 10 port usb type A hub open -- so Is better, adapter direct to to mini or just use the old hub... always best to not put hub in mix correct? or does the adapter complexity here, cancel that theory out?

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