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It's Ventura Time
#62036 07/11/22 07:11 PM
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Like everyone else that has installed Ventura, the first, and most immediately noticeable item is: System Preferences have been replaced with System Settings, lifted almost directly from iOS/iPadOS. In fact, the Preferences menu in all Apple apps has become the Settings menu. Like it or hate it, my immediate reaction is, "at least it consistent across Apple OS variants", which IMHO is as good thing. One thing that has not changed is the download and install time estimates are still wildly inaccurate until the final ten minutes which are dead accurate. The initial estimate started out at 2 1/2 hours and a bit over half an hour I was up and running in Ventura. So far...
  • Sounds Source is broken, but a Ventura fix is promised by fall
  • Carbon Copy Cloner 5 won't run, but there is a version 6 beta available
  • ScanSnap Home that was broken in Monterey 12.5 beta 5 works in Ventura
  • DEVONThink 3 plugin for Mail is broken
  • there has been an update to Safari Technology Preview
  • ???

...and this is only fifteen minutes after booting. All-in-all not bad at all for a first public beta.

Now it is time for iOS 16 and iPadOS 16.


If we knew what it was we were doing, it wouldn't be called research, would it?

— Albert Einstein
Re: It's Ventura Time
joemikeb #62038 07/11/22 11:21 PM
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MAYBE THE BEST FEATURE

In theory, it isn't that much, but Stage Manager may be one of the biggest productivity features yet. Open two, three, four, or even more applications, click on Stage Manager and the application with current focus appears front and center on the screen and the others are lined up in nice neat little windows on the left side of the screen. Click on any one of those windows and that window takes the focus and pops up front and center. Simple, elegant, and works like a dream. Even better, if you have multiple monitors, it works on bother monitors and even across monitors.

I just had A bill paying session, and it cut the time to scan a bill, store it in the database, record the transaction in Quicken, copy the bill into quicken, and cut a check or pay it online dramatically. Each step flowed smoothly from one app to the other in a contiguous stream. As far as I am concerned, Stage Manager has just become a full time feature of my computer work flow. The next question is if and how this will work when I throw the iPad Pro into the picture. But more time for that tomorrow.


If we knew what it was we were doing, it wouldn't be called research, would it?

— Albert Einstein
Re: It's Ventura Time
joemikeb #62044 07/12/22 07:32 PM
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COOL RUNNING

Whether I ham-handed Mail or found a glitch in Ventura, I ended up needing to use some new features that carried over from Monterey to recover and it was way cool.

The Situation

I received an email in Ventura with an attached document I had forgotten to sign. So I printed it out, signed it, scanned it, attached the scan to a reply in Mail and hit send. Mail promptly crashed! to make a long story short I re-attempted to send the email and ended up with half a dozen stacked Mail windows all hung and all resisting being closed and the message had yet to be successfully sent. confused

The Fix

Opened my iPad Pro then using the trackpad on the Mac moved the cursor to the far right edge of the monitor and beyond until the cursor appeared on the iPad. Still using the trackpad and keyboard on the Mac I was able to open iPad Mail and draft a reply to the message I had been unable to send on the Mac, move the cursor back to the Mac to select and copy the attachment. Back to the iPad once again and paste the attachment to the document on the iPad and send it easily.

Then I noticed the Mail icon on the Mac had an icon attached to it that resembled an iPhone. Click on that and A new window opened in Mail on the Mac mirroring the window on the iPad. The data from the iPad is transfered to the Mac and the Mac actually handles the traffic.

Conclusion

The ability to smoothly move between the iPad and Desktop and pass processing tasks from one to the other started in Monterey, but Ventura has significantly refined it and it has become a powerful and useful tool. I can' wait to see this when iPadOS


If we knew what it was we were doing, it wouldn't be called research, would it?

— Albert Einstein
Re: It's Ventura Time
joemikeb #62045 07/12/22 08:03 PM
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STILL MORE ABOUT STAGE MANAGER

It has taken me a while to catch onto something about Stage Manager, it not only neatly organizes open apps along the left side of the monitor, if an app has multiple windows open, those windows are placed in a stack you can sort through by clicking on the stack. It is not the application that takes the focus, it is the specific window that takes the focus. Any other open windows remain in the stack on the left edge of the monitor. I have already discovered this makes windows preferable to tabs in numerous instances.


If we knew what it was we were doing, it wouldn't be called research, would it?

— Albert Einstein
Re: It's Ventura Time
joemikeb #62050 07/13/22 05:42 PM
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STAGE MANAGER IN IPadOS 16

I had forgotten that Stage Manager was coming to iPadOS as well as Ventura. To my surprise and pleasure, it is functionally identical on both platforms. Stage Manager effectively brings real multitasking to the iPad and blurs the distinction between Tablets and laptops into a very fuzzy line. If the iPad apps come up to full strength (and given the iPad Pro uses the same M1 processor as the MacBook Air that should mostly be a matter of validating compatibility) the distinction is going to what features the iPad has that are not supported on the MacBook (telephone modem and Apple Pencil come immediately to mind) and for many road warriors the iPad would easily be the handiest and more versatile choice.

SO FAR BETTER THAN GOOD

This is the first public beta of Ventura, IPadOS 16, and iOS 16 and (fingers crossed) the best first beta in memory.
  • game changing new features that actually work, right out of the box cool
  • several issues I was having in the last couple of Monterey betas don't exist in Ventura cool
  • no major app broken grin and one significant app that was broken (ScanSnap Home), has been restored to functionality. grin grin
  • the few broken apps I have encountered are so minor I will probably end up deleting them smirk
  • Preview has hung intermittently when annotating a document but the hangs are not reliably repeatable confused
  • reboots are many times faster than they were in Ventura confused cool
  • My devices are more stable in Ventura and iOS/iPadOS 16 than they were in the last few Monterey/iOS/iPadOS betas grin
  • OS/iPadOS 15 and particularly Monterey are the culmination of a major structural reshape of the OS. Ventura and iOS/iPadOS 16 seem far more focused on user features and experience.


If we knew what it was we were doing, it wouldn't be called research, would it?

— Albert Einstein
Re: It's Ventura Time
joemikeb #62071 07/16/22 03:20 PM
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STARTUP ITEMS

If anyone had intimated I would be touting startup items as a significant new and improved feature of macOS, I would have laughed at the idea, but that was then and this is Ventura. The fact that System Preferences in Ventura is now System > Settings with a very iOS-like look & feel is well known, but this morning I ran into a new feature in System > Settings that could be a troubleshooting game-changer. Startup Items has been moved from the Users & Groups pane to General pretty much intact. The important change is a new section, Allow in the Background has been added including all the various LaunchAgents and LaunchDaemons along with toggle switches to turn each of them on or off! This opens a new troubleshooting dimension in Ventura, and I immediately found it useful. NOTE: I submitted a suggestion to add the toggle switches to the Login items.


If we knew what it was we were doing, it wouldn't be called research, would it?

— Albert Einstein
Re: It's Ventura Time
joemikeb #62072 07/16/22 04:19 PM
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Originally Posted by joemikeb
I submitted a suggestion to add the toggle switches to the Login items.
I don't follow that specific part, but I love the general idea, because it apparently replaces safe boot with a much easier and more practical way to troubleshoot.


The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire
Re: It's Ventura Time
artie505 #62074 07/16/22 04:52 PM
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Originally Posted by artie505
Originally Posted by joemikeb
I submitted a suggestion to add the toggle switches to the Login items.
I don't follow that specific part, but I love the general idea, because it apparently replaces safe boot with a much easier and more practical way to troubleshoot.
You have the right idea, Safe Boot is a shotgun approach and this is precision targeting. However, Safe Boot also disables extensions while this does not.


If we knew what it was we were doing, it wouldn't be called research, would it?

— Albert Einstein
Re: It's Ventura Time
joemikeb #62078 07/16/22 05:30 PM
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Originally Posted by joemikeb
Originally Posted by artie505
Originally Posted by joemikeb
I submitted a suggestion to add the toggle switches to the Login items.
I don't follow that specific part, but I love the general idea, because it apparently replaces safe boot with a much easier and more practical way to troubleshoot.
You have the right idea, Safe Boot is a shotgun approach and this is precision targeting. However, Safe Boot also disables extensions while this does not.
Any idea why it doesn't deal with extensions?

And I still don't understand what you suggested.

Thanks.


The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire
Re: It's Ventura Time
artie505 #62079 07/16/22 09:46 PM
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Originally Posted by artie505
And I still don't understand what you suggested.

Thanks.

As it currently stands Settings > General > Login Items is divided into two sections
  1. "Open at login" (heretofore Login Items) that can be added or deleted ( + or - )
  2. "Allow in the background" (LaunchItems & Launch dragon and a little more) with individual switches to enable or disable each of them.


I am asking that the switches be added to the "Open at Login" items in addition to the add and delete option. Not only would that facilitate troubleshooting, it opens the possibility of different settings in different focuses and/or configurations. For example, a laptop user might have apps they want launched automatically when they are in the office, but not on the road, or an instructor might want different sets of apps to launch automatically for different classes.


If we knew what it was we were doing, it wouldn't be called research, would it?

— Albert Einstein
Re: It's Ventura Time
joemikeb #62080 07/16/22 10:27 PM
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CONTROL CENTER

Another feature that has come into its own in Ventura is the Control Center. That rather ho-hum item just to the left of the time/date at the extreme right end of the menu bar has become an alternative location for many of those icons cluttering up the right side of the menu bar. It takes, not just one but two settings screens to control all the items that can go into Control Center instead of or in addition to the menu bar. I typically have several things running, and my menu bar is often overcrowded. In Ventura, much of that clutter has migrated to Control Center, where it only appears when active. (Now I suppose I will have to de-clutter my physical desktop. tongue )

It is a little thing, but these little things are adding up to a new, macOS experience. Fortunately, for those who hate change, many of them can be switched off.


If we knew what it was we were doing, it wouldn't be called research, would it?

— Albert Einstein
Re: It's Ventura Time
joemikeb #62086 07/18/22 12:14 PM
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Originally Posted by joemikeb
I am asking that the switches be added to the "Open at Login" items in addition to the add and delete option. (Emphasis added)
Got it, thanks.

You're requesting that switches, NOT "the switches" be added to the Login Items pane.
"The" implies the same ones as are in the menu bar dropdown, which is why I was lost.


The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire
Re: It's Ventura Time
artie505 #62097 07/22/22 04:00 PM
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BOOTABLE CLONE FAILURE

This must be taken in light of the fact I am running a beta version of CCC 6.1.3-b1 (7374), on a beta OS version macOS 13.0 Beta (22A5295i), but when I select the Legacy Boot Copy utility in CCC, and click on “Allow CCC to erase…”, CCC returns instantly to the “Task Plan” window and I cannot get beyond that. The failure has been reported to both Apple and Mike Bombich. At least for the moment, there is no way to create a bootable clone of Ventura. In the meantime, CCC has added significant features for managing APFS snapshots, which offers a shotgun approach to versioning as opposed to Time Machine's "sniper rifle" versioning. I was going to test this using a newly created bootable, but I will have to postpone that until I can create a bootable clone.

Last edited by joemikeb; 07/22/22 05:38 PM.

If we knew what it was we were doing, it wouldn't be called research, would it?

— Albert Einstein
Re: It's Ventura Time
joemikeb #62098 07/22/22 05:40 PM
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blush The CCC failure was on my side of the keyboard. The sequence of events changed slightly, and I missed it.


If we knew what it was we were doing, it wouldn't be called research, would it?

— Albert Einstein
Re: It's Ventura Time
joemikeb #62099 07/22/22 05:56 PM
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Originally Posted by joemikeb
BOOTABLE CLONE FAILURE

This must be taken in light of the fact I am running a beta version of CCC 6.1.3-b1 (7374), on a beta OS version macOS 13.0 Beta (22A5295i), but when I select the Legacy Boot Copy utility in CCC, and click on “Allow CCC to erase…”, CCC returns instantly to the “Task Plan” window and I cannot get beyond that. The failure has been reported to both Apple and Mike Bombich. At least for the moment, there is no way to create a bootable clone of Ventura. In the meantime, CCC has added significant features for managing APFS snapshots, which offers a shotgun approach to versioning as opposed to Time Machine's "sniper rifle" versioning. I was going to test this using a newly created bootable, but I will have to postpone that until I can create a bootable clone.
"Executive" editing privilege, huh? wink


The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire
Re: It's Ventura Time
artie505 #62218 07/31/22 09:19 PM
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UNIVERSAL CONTROL IS BACK

Universal Control was touted in Monterey (macOS 12) but didn't become functional until macOS 12.5. It disappeared in Ventura (macOS 13 public beta 1) but has returned to life in macOS 13 and iPadOS 16 public beta 2! Like Stage Manager, the power of Universal Control is difficult to describe to someone who has not experienced it. But for many users, it is a potential game changing feature. Activation simply requires turning on an iPad Pro running iPadOS 16 on within Bluetooth range of a Mac running macOS 13. At that point, moving the pointer past the right edge of the Mac's monitor or the left edge of the iPad Pro's screen, transfers keyboard and keypad or mouse control between the two devices. Since the two devices also automatically share the clipboard and open Safari pages, sharing data processed on one device is almost instantly available on the other. A drawing created using Apple. Pencil on the iPad Pro can be pasted into a document on the Mac. I am still working out work-flows between the two devices, but yesterday, I balanced my books on the Mac while verifying the transactions using the bank's app on my iPad then signed a contract on my Mac by signing it using Apple Pencil on the iPad. I could have done both tasks entirely on one device or the other, but it was just so darned convenient to split the work between the two devices. grin

The only downside is keeping track of which screen the cursor is on,


If we knew what it was we were doing, it wouldn't be called research, would it?

— Albert Einstein
Re: It's Ventura Time
joemikeb #62359 08/22/22 04:21 PM
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Here's something Interesting: There's hope that older Macs will be able to run macOS Ventura I don't know that I would trust my iMac to this way of running Ventura. Hopefully, it would be OK but I hesitate.


Jon

macOS 11.7.10, iMac Retina 5K 27-inch, late 2014, 3.5 GHz Intel Core i5, 1 TB fusion drive, 16 GB RAM, Epson SureColor P600, Photoshop CC, Lightroom CC, MS Office 365
Re: It's Ventura Time
jchuzi #62360 08/22/22 04:35 PM
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Ventura might run on the older Macs, but the hack would automatically rule out any possibility of support from Apple and with any hack, the next Ventura update might not work.


If we knew what it was we were doing, it wouldn't be called research, would it?

— Albert Einstein
Re: It's Ventura Time
joemikeb #62581 09/21/22 11:28 PM
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I just installed macos 13.0 beta 8 and after zero problems with previous betas, of all things this one broke Books (all of the books report unrecognized format) and Mail requires a separate step to download remote content. The latter is an understandable security precaution, but it is annoying as H3!!


If we knew what it was we were doing, it wouldn't be called research, would it?

— Albert Einstein
Re: It's Ventura Time
joemikeb #62587 09/23/22 06:24 PM
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Originally Posted by joemikeb
I just installed macos 13.0 beta 8 and after zero problems with previous betas, of all things this one broke Books (all of the books report unrecognized format) and Mail requires a separate step to download remote content. The latter is an understandable security precaution, but it is annoying as H3!!

Fixed! Restart didn't solve the issue, but complete shutdown and cold boot did.


If we knew what it was we were doing, it wouldn't be called research, would it?

— Albert Einstein
Re: It's Ventura Time
joemikeb #62700 10/20/22 10:29 PM
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I see Ventura is due for release on the 24th. I have only just upgraded to Monterey and got everything running the way I like. I presume Ventura will run on a 2019 iMac.

Question: I don't own an Apple phone or iPad, but I do have a MacBook Air. Is there any point in me upgrading to Ventura?

Thanks.
Jerry


iMac (19,1, 3.1 GHz i5, 12.7.2, 40 Gb RAM) with Mac Pro (5,1, dual-2.4 GHz, 10.13.6, 24 Gb RAM) used as a server and to run 32-bit apps via Screen Sharing. MacBook Air (1.8 Ghz, 8 Gb RAM, 10.14.6, 256 Gb SSD) Vodafone router and Devolo Wi-Fi Extender, Canon TS8351 printer/scanner.
Re: It's Ventura Time
freelance #62701 10/21/22 05:16 PM
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Since I have been running the Ventura betas for months now, I have pretty well forgotten Monterey, but my observations are:
  • Over time I learned to understand and like the changes in Catalina, Big Sur, and Monterey. I loved Ventura since I first booted it up.
  • I have been running beta release macOS versions since the original Mac OS X Public Beta and Ventura has been the least problematic beta I can recall. It was stable in public beta 1 (developer beta 3), and has only become more stable with each subsequent beta update.
  • The most significant new feature in Ventura is Stage Manager, and in my opinion, it is a game changer. Stage Manager is dead simple to use, took three seconds to turn it on, and after less than five minutes of use, I never wanted to turn it off. It is difficult to explain and at the same time immediately intuitive when you turn it on. This feature alone is enough to make Ventura a worthwhile upgrade, it has literally changed my entgire workflow.
  • The most in your face change in Ventura is the switch from System Preferences to System Settings. Not that much new, but a reshuffle of the various settings more in line with iOS and iPadOS, and most definitely the wave of the future.
  • There is nothing in Ventura that should affect or change the way things are running in Monterey.


Everyone around here should know by now that I am a firm believer in taking advantage of every upgrade and update. But this is one I can heartily recommend, even for the faint of heart.


If we knew what it was we were doing, it wouldn't be called research, would it?

— Albert Einstein
Re: It's Ventura Time
joemikeb #62702 10/21/22 07:40 PM
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Thank you, I expect I'll be an early adopter. cool


iMac (19,1, 3.1 GHz i5, 12.7.2, 40 Gb RAM) with Mac Pro (5,1, dual-2.4 GHz, 10.13.6, 24 Gb RAM) used as a server and to run 32-bit apps via Screen Sharing. MacBook Air (1.8 Ghz, 8 Gb RAM, 10.14.6, 256 Gb SSD) Vodafone router and Devolo Wi-Fi Extender, Canon TS8351 printer/scanner.
Re: It's Ventura Time
freelance #62705 10/25/22 12:20 PM
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Here are some caveats for early adopters: macOS Ventura review: Great features & promise, but not all here yet My iMac cannot go beyond Big Sur so I can't relate any personal experiences with Ventura.


Jon

macOS 11.7.10, iMac Retina 5K 27-inch, late 2014, 3.5 GHz Intel Core i5, 1 TB fusion drive, 16 GB RAM, Epson SureColor P600, Photoshop CC, Lightroom CC, MS Office 365
Re: It's Ventura Time
jchuzi #62706 10/26/22 08:25 AM
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Thanks, Jon, for the link. After reading the article, I think I'll hold off upgrading until, maybe, 13.3 as I have done in the past. I don't really need another learning curve right now.

I did update my OS to 12.6.1.


iMac (19,1, 3.1 GHz i5, 12.7.2, 40 Gb RAM) with Mac Pro (5,1, dual-2.4 GHz, 10.13.6, 24 Gb RAM) used as a server and to run 32-bit apps via Screen Sharing. MacBook Air (1.8 Ghz, 8 Gb RAM, 10.14.6, 256 Gb SSD) Vodafone router and Devolo Wi-Fi Extender, Canon TS8351 printer/scanner.
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