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Re: Bank Hard Drive replace less?
kevs #61897 06/22/22 05:27 PM
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Originally Posted by kevs
Joe thanks Today, different status Tm look

https://imgur.com/a/tK5JWxx

Is till heat?

There is no indication of heat or any other problem in this report, it is about as good as you can get.

Originally Posted by keys
no, other drives will not suffer, as all next to each other in same place to unique to that one Seagate for some reason. No stomach for doing any of that troubleshooting or case, just replace. That said it could still go years? You don't have a rule to how many issue.. don't even get numbers what mean 4/ 1... 1/0 dont' understand any of it.

This picture is worth 1,000 words. Don't get wrapped around that axle over numbers, DriveDX interprets those for you. The numbers are for the more technically sophisticated users. Colors are important too, green is good, yellow/amber is not so good (failing), and red is bad (failed).

Originally Posted by keys
These D2 brand new, their elite model, any guess why would not be at standard for 20gb,

Minimal development cost (technology upgrades are expensive), insufficient market demand, the PC products are a commodity market based on price not performance.

Originally Posted by keys
what is that called 3.2? ANd you don't notice much performance bump from 5gb, 10gb, 20gb..?

3.2 is a USB Standard that hasn't gone much of anywhere and is often confused/conflated with USB 3.1 Gen 2. The nomenclature has switched back and forth over the years, and to be honest I am not sure where things have landed other than 3.1 Gen 2 is 10 Mbps.

Yes there is a very noticeable difference between 5 Gbps, 10 Gbps, 20 Gbps, and 40 Gbps data transfer rates. Whether that is important depends upon the task. If I were using a disk drive for professional video production I would demand the fastest data transfer rate I could get and insist on Thunderbolt 4 SSDs and probably some type of RAID array to ensure data integrity (think in terms of $20,000 to $30,000 or more in data storage alone). If my tasks is archival data storage of company records replace the SSDs with Tape drives but I would probably stick with Thunderbolt 4 because of the bandwidth. For most backup purposes 5 Gbps will get the job done and best of all the technology at that level is CHEAP. Uping that to a 10 Gbps data rate would not add much to the price and might be nice in a particular circumstance, but I wouldn't pay much to get it.

Originally Posted by keys
I don't think great externals, 8TB in $200 range any better...?

LaCie is good but like many enclosure makers the drive inside (which is the whole point of the exercise) was purchased from Seagate, Western Digital, or Toshiba on a low cost bid basis and may be different from one production run to the next. My personal preference has been OWC enclosures with Toshiba HDs or OWC SSDs/NVMEs.


"Sacred cows make the best hamburger"

- Mark Twain
Re: Bank Hard Drive replace less?
joemikeb #61903 06/22/22 11:51 PM
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"There is no indication of heat or any other problem in this report, it is about as good as you can get.
"

thanks Joe, but in problems you have something there at bottom say 4 instead 0. Want all zeros. no?

Re: Bank Hard Drive replace less?
kevs #61904 06/23/22 04:06 PM
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Originally Posted by kevs
thanks Joe, but in problems you have something there at bottom say 4 instead 0. Want all zeros. no?

I don't see the non-zero values you are referring to, but as long as the Health rating is 100% you have nothing to worry about. The only way to guarantee there will be no non-zero values is to never take the drive out of the box and turn it on, many are quite normal and some zero values actually indicate the drive has already failed. Once again DriveDX knows all of this and has the ability to interpret it for you. If you want to know more about S.M.A.R.T. spend some time reading and digesting this Wikipedia article.


"Sacred cows make the best hamburger"

- Mark Twain
Re: Bank Hard Drive replace less?
joemikeb #61909 06/23/22 05:45 PM
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"as long as the Health rating is 100% you have nothing to worry about. "

Ok Joe, Well the TM is actually 83%, has one issue found (keeps changing) etc, with numbers dont understand , but at top say: smart status ok, overall health and overall perforance, good all green at top, yet goods are both 83% ok so in fact TM is problematic, yet working...



The other older Seagate, Same thing but No issues found -- all green at top, but not 100% says 97.4% on those overall health, and performance.


The internal 6 ;year old MAC HD.. all green, 0 issues, 100% health, but 76% time remaining left

The brand new Lacie d2 in 100% unsurprisingly, all green.... no problems.

But saying now is later... with new drives.... if has 1 issue, can live with that as long as all 100% at top; but per force, it wont be 100% at top if got even 1 issue right?

And for the older Seagate, no issues, but at 97.4, not 100% you would then of replacing soon?

Re: Bank Hard Drive replace less?
kevs #61912 06/23/22 07:27 PM
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Originally Posted by kevs
"as long as the Health rating is 100% you have nothing to worry about. "

Ok Joe, Well the TM is actually 83%, has one issue found (keeps changing) etc, with numbers dont understand , but at top say: smart status ok, overall health and overall perforance, good all green at top, yet goods are both 83% ok so in fact TM is problematic, yet working...



The other older Seagate, Same thing but No issues found -- all green at top, but not 100% says 97.4% on those overall health, and performance.

The internal 6 ;year old MAC HD.. all green, 0 issues, 100% health, but 76% time remaining left

Actually, the drives are good but the ratings reflect the fact they are aging. All drives have feature that compensate for normal wear and tear and measured by S.M.A.R.T. DriveDX ratings reflect how many have been used and how many are remaining to be used.

As an example: Drive designers know that storage sectors will fail in numerous ways often when the drive is built so they provide spare sectors that can be re-mapped into service when a bad sector is detected. S.M.A.R.T./NVME tracks how often remapping is occurring and how many spare sectors are still available to be used. Even if the number of spare sectors reaches zero, the drive is still usable but if another sector fails, the disks total capacity will be reduced that much. By default, DriveDX will notify you when the number of spare sectors falls below 20% of the original total (but you can change that in DriveDX > Preferences > Advanced).

So the numbers you are seeing are normal for older drives, but in no way reflect on their integrity or reliability. If you replaced a drive every time one of those numbers fell below 100% few drives would last more than a few months or a year.

Originally Posted by keys
The brand new Lacie d2 in 100% unsurprisingly, all green.... no problems.

But saying now is later... with new drives.... if has 1 issue, can live with that as long as all 100% at top; but per force, it wont be 100% at top if got even 1 issue right?

At that rate plan on replacing drives every few months or even weeks. The default tolerances in DriveDX are a good guideline.

Originally Posted by keys
And for the older Seagate, no issues, but at 97.4, not 100% you would then of replacing soon?

Depends on your definition of soon. At 97.4% I would anticipate soon to be measured in years, probably several of them. But you can be at 100% and in rare circumstances go to total failure in less than a second. But in the end, all of this is based on statistical probabilities and the probablity of a sudden failure on a drive rated 100% is at the far extreme edge of the normal distribution curve, approaching 1 in a million or better.


"Sacred cows make the best hamburger"

- Mark Twain
Re: Bank Hard Drive replace less?
joemikeb #61936 06/26/22 07:10 PM
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Final question JOe, so with hardrives, replaces as needed not on a random time.

Your opinion on my 27" imac? Bought May 2016, late 2015 model.. Is anything I need in a new model? No.

That said would you still by the new M1 when come out (as computer is getting older..) or just stay with the 27" I have, "if happy'.. as cliche goes....

When I got rid last 27" imac (which also had about 6 years).. I had to.. Photoshop was taking a full minute to open an image and the the computer solved that... But the current 27" is still working speedy/ fine now for some reason 6 years in.

Re: Bank Hard Drive replace less?
kevs #61937 06/26/22 07:27 PM
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Here's my 2¢: My Late 2014 27" iMac, for the first time, will not be able to use the latest OS (Monterey). It appears that yours is only a year younger and it is possible that the OS after Monterey will be incompatible with it. If I were you, I would not replace your iMac now but wait to see what happens. If history is any indication, Apple will continue to update Monterey after its successor is crowned, if only for awhile. At that point, you can re-evaluate your options. Hopefully, Apple will re-issue a 27" iMac with the latest chip.

As for me, I'm waiting a bit since my iMac is performing admirably.


Jon

macOS 11.6.7, iMac Retina 5K 27-inch, late 2014, 3.5 GHz Intel Core i5, 1 TB fusion drive, 16 GB RAM, Epson SureColor P600, Photoshop CC, Lightroom CC, MS Office 365
Re: Bank Hard Drive replace less?
jchuzi #61939 06/26/22 08:24 PM
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OK Jon so you answer is, "if you happy and works with current OS, keep it"

Re: Bank Hard Drive replace less?
kevs #61941 06/26/22 09:26 PM
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Originally Posted by kevs
Final question JOe, so with hardrives, replaces as needed not on a random time.

definitely YES!

Originally Posted by keys
Your opinion on my 27" imac? Bought May 2016, late 2015 model.. Is anything I need in a new model? No.

According to Apple, your iMac will not run Ventura and Ventura offers a LOT of useful new features as well as continuing to implement major functional changes enabled by the structural changes in Monterey. Whether you need them or not may not be the right question. More like, do you want those features or not?

Originally Posted by keys
That said would you still by the new M1 when come out (as computer is getting older..) or just stay with the 27" I have, "if happy'.. as cliche goes....

When I got rid last 27" imac (which also had about 6 years).. I had to.. Photoshop was taking a full minute to open an image and the the computer solved that... But the current 27" is still working speedy/ fine now for some reason 6 years in.

The following does not answer your question, but may help inform your decision. IF and that is a big IF Apple decides to continue the iMac form factor it would more likely be based on the M2 version of Apple Silicon rather than the M1. But the last I heard the iMac product line has come to its end, and you will have to get a Mac Mini, Studio, MacBook Air, or MacBook Pro for your next Mac. I switched from an iMac to a Mac mini several years ago and recently upgraded to a Studio, so I won't miss the iMac. My current Monitors have outlasted a MacBook Pro, an intel Mac mini, and an M1 Mac mini, so my upgrades have been several thousands of dollars less than they would have been had I been using iMacs.

I enjoy pushing the envelope so anything I say must be taken in light of that predilection. The decision to upgrade is more often based on want & desire, rather than need. I will also point out that computational speed is relative and what we perceive as fast can change in a heartbeat after using a new computer, and within a week, what was a speedy new computer has become the new norm. If I were in your shoes, the deciding factor would be the single fact that your 27" iMac will not be able to run Ventura. That does not mean it would not remain useful, it will. But, it means the next upgrade will have a significantly steeper learning curve. A secondary consideration would be the trade-in value, if any, of your iMac will never be more than it is today. So if you trade today and use Apple Pay, not only will you will be able to pay for a new M1 or M2 mac in 12 months at 0% interest, but you will pay less in the long run.


"Sacred cows make the best hamburger"

- Mark Twain
Re: Bank Hard Drive replace less?
joemikeb #61942 06/26/22 10:44 PM
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Joe thanks Did not know about VEntura, not working, so that is reason always to change... you cannot be on OS for reason along of no support for security reasons, right? You'd have security issues ...updates

"I heard the iMac product line has come to its end, and you will have to get a Mac Mini, Studio, MacBook Air, or MacBook Pro for your next Mac. I switched from an iMac to a Mac mini several years ago and recently upgraded to a Studio, so I won't miss the iMac. My current Monitors have outlasted a MacBook Pro, an intel Mac mini, and an M1 Mac mini, so my upgrades have been several thousands of dollars less than they would have been had I been using iMacs."''

Sure? They just released imac M1 for smaller screen... 24 inch no?

Don't understand how saved $... Imac goes for 6 years that a pretty good run for $1700? How did you save? Seems spend more no? (my Mac Book air lasted 9 years in the other room)

Studio is a fortune no? compared to $1700 for 27"

Also, that LG... monitor, wont have good speakers or good camera for Zoom / Google meetings?

Re: Bank Hard Drive replace less?
kevs #61946 06/27/22 02:16 AM
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Originally Posted by kevs
Joe thanks Did not know about VEntura, not working, so that is reason always to change... you cannot be on OS for reason along of no support for security reasons, right? You'd have security issues ...updates

Apple will publish security updates to Monterey for at least a few years

Originally Posted by keys
Sure? They just released imac M1 for smaller screen... 24 inch no?

I must have been asleep when they announced that one, mea culpa. I think it is just the 27" iMac that is EOL.

Originally Posted by keys
Don't understand how saved $... Imac goes for 6 years that a pretty good run for $1700? How did you save? Seems spend more no? (my Mac Book air lasted 9 years in the other room)

Studio is a fortune no? compared to $1700 for 27"

Also, that LG... monitor, wont have good speakers or good camera for Zoom / Google meetings?

The Studio is not comparable to the M1 iMac rather the M1 Mac Mini at $699. So, with a good 24" 4G display, and careful shopping you could come in under $1,000, and not only have an arguable more powerful and flexible machine, the monitor could easily live to be used on another machine in the future. Admittedly the iMac would be a sleeker package.


"Sacred cows make the best hamburger"

- Mark Twain
Re: Bank Hard Drive replace less?
joemikeb #61947 06/27/22 03:18 AM
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JOe, thanks, well if you could go more years on the 27" with MOnterrey (nothing I care about future editions)... then would you? Last time... again things were horriblly slow.. not noticing anything slow right now...

https://www.apple.com/mac-studio/

STudio starts 2k... so... maybe confused.

Want monitors at least 27.... you sent link previously of LG, sure ok but camera and speakers, maybe not as good who knows..

Looking at the Mac Mini M1, it only says 16GB ram, whereas my old 27 " has 24GB, so that is big downgrade in Ram?

Last edited by kevs; 06/27/22 03:23 AM.
Re: Bank Hard Drive replace less?
kevs #61949 06/27/22 02:09 PM
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Originally Posted by kevs
JOe, thanks, well if you could go more years on the 27" with MOnterrey (nothing I care about future editions)... then would you? Last time... again things were horriblly slow.. not noticing anything slow right now...

As long as you are satisfied with the software you have today, willing to accept the additional risk of future forms of malware, and will not be unhappy if you take your iMac in for repairs and find ti is no longer supported by Apple.

Originally Posted by keys
https://www.apple.com/mac-studio/

STudio starts 2k... so... maybe confused.

The M1 iMac has the same Apple Silicon as the MacBook Air. iPad Pro and the Mac mini is actually (although the mini has 8 GPU cores to the iMacs 7). The Studio on the other hand uses M1 Max with two more high speed processor cores and eight more GPU cores or the M1 Ultra that puts it into the work station level of processing speed and power. So, as I said the Mac mini is comparable to the 24" M1 iMac and the Studio is in a significantly higher performance level.

Originally Posted by keys
Want monitors at least 27.... you sent link previously of LG, sure ok but camera and speakers, maybe not as good who knows.

All I can tell you is when I am on Zoom, I am frequently asked about the camera I use because it is so much better than what others are using and cost < $25. However, when Ventura is available, I will in all probability switch to using the rear facing camera and microphone in my iPhone to take advantage of its superior lenses, not to mention the ability to use the different lenses simultaneously.

Originally Posted by keys
Looking at the Mac Mini M1, it only says 16GB ram, whereas my old 27 " has 24GB, so that is big downgrade in Ram?

That has been noted several times and places, that M1 Macs are able to get by with smaller memories than their Intel counterparts without degrading performance. I can't explain it, but there it is.


"Sacred cows make the best hamburger"

- Mark Twain
Re: Bank Hard Drive replace less?
joemikeb #61952 06/27/22 04:05 PM
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Thanks JOe, ok so you vote for getting rid of the 6 year old 27" as soon as can... .....moneywise.. just start thinking of replacing... I could get maybe used to 24' instead of 27"' screen, but love the 27"... or get Mac Mini with LG the LG link you posted few weeks ago...., or get Studio..computer with LG..? (maybe overkill 2k just for computer part..... but if going have something 6 years?) I don't think you'd buy Apple display correcct? But you might spend 2k on Studio computer?

That LG Monitor, l not 5k like Apples, you miss that? LG, mentioning camera that shoots you while sit in front of a meeting, not come with that? $25 buy something put it on top? Have link?

Some rumour may may something like 27 similar " again who knows..

Oh... RAM, my 27" has 24GB, you'd not want to go lower right? The minis can't get to that? Ok now see your reply? You concur with that..? or more argument to spend almost 3x get studio? or ok see even new imac 24s just 16 Ram

Other question for M computers: Just got 8 TB externals, I partition for emergencies backups for OS. So on on one external, and backup up again bank... I do now both Super Duper and CCC, why not have space. Those will work on on spinning disk (Lacie d2 or even older Seagate I have?), ok, for installing back up OS, if need be ok? Obviously SSD better.. but more $ and more clutter ---- have to buy new SSD just for OS backups.... your opinion?

And Drive X on alert.. You have it in your log in items to always running during the say, always on?

Last edited by kevs; 06/27/22 04:07 PM.
Re: Bank Hard Drive replace less?
kevs #61954 06/27/22 05:35 PM
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Originally Posted by kevs
Thanks JOe, ok so you vote for getting rid of the 6 year old 27" as soon as can... .....moneywise.. just start thinking of replacing... I could get maybe used to 24' instead of 27"' screen, but love the 27"... or get Mac Mini with LG the LG link you posted few weeks ago...., or get Studio..computer with LG..? (maybe overkill 2k just for computer part..... but if going have something 6 years?) I don't think you'd buy Apple display correcct? But you might spend 2k on Studio computer?

The Studio in my opinion would be overkill for you. Put difference between a mini and a Studio in the bank and buy an M2 or M3 mini with it in a few years.
The Apple Display is impressive, but not as impressive as the price. I have become too enamored of having two monitors to give one of them up and two 27" monitors would overwhelm my desktop, So I am quite happy with a 24" LG Ultra Fine Thunderbolt display and 21.5" LG Full HD HDMI monitor side-by-side. (Curiously enough they are exactly the same height so they look like this. (Note that is not my Studio on the desktop, it is a NewerTech Drive enclosure, the Studio is mounted out of sight under the desk.)

Originally Posted by keys
That LG Monitor, l not 5k like Apples, you miss that? LG, mentioning camera that shoots you while sit in front of a meeting, not come with that? $25 buy something put it on top? Have link?

this is the one I bought and it provides the microphone as well. I have been very pleased and Facetime or Zoom participants have been very impressed. It does not offer tracking like Apple's built in cameras do, but the lighting is almost studio quality.

Originally Posted by keys
Oh... RAM, my 27" has 24GB, you'd not want to go lower right? The minis can't get to that? Ok now see your reply? You concur with that..? or more argument to spend almost 3x get studio? or ok see even new imac 24s just 16 Ram


Unless you plan to work on billboard size images 16K is ample on an M1 machine. M1 iPad Pros get along just fine with 8 or 16 GB of memory, and they will be running "Full power" applications in iPadOS 16.

Originally Posted by keys
Other question for M computers: Just got 8 TB externals, I partition for emergencies backups for OS. So on on one external, and backup up again bank... I do now both Super Duper and CCC, why not have space. Those will work on on spinning disk (Lacie d2 or even older Seagate I have?), ok, for installing back up OS, if need be ok? Obviously SSD better.. but more $ and more clutter ---- have to buy new SSD just for OS backups.... your opinion?

I do all my backups to HDs and save my external SSDs for use where fast I/O is important ie. my additional data drive.

Originally Posted by keys
And Drive X on alert.. You have it in your log in items to always running during the say, always on?

Yes and why not? It is completely unobtrusive, and because it is always running, it can provide early warning of impending failures.


"Sacred cows make the best hamburger"

- Mark Twain
Re: Bank Hard Drive replace less?
joemikeb #61956 06/27/22 05:50 PM
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Thanks JOe, the LG you gave before was 27" LG, just $350 on Amazon....
https://www.amazon.com/LG-27UK650-W-Monitor-FreeSync-Technology/dp/B078GRM2MV

Good? wont miss 5k? I prefer just one monitor.. Used to 27" to that's nice.. but Mac Mini with a seperate display only $1100 or so vs $1800 for 24" Imac... you vote for mini and LG? The imac 24" lose monitor, plus, not much give you a Mini/ LG .... does not?m Just mostly Apple logo miss?

Ok drive X in log in items. ONly downside apple tech point out if want keep log in items to minimum as crash system sometimes, but ok.. I think I have 6 items in log in items, not too much?


"I do all my backups to HDs and save my external SSDs for use where fast I/O is important ie. my additional data drive."

Not sure understood Question.. Question was think Lacie d2 will be fine as backips for OS.. backups OS to use with M1 machines, thanks!

Re: Bank Hard Drive replace less?
kevs #61957 06/27/22 06:04 PM
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Originally Posted by kevs
Just got 8 TB externals, I partition for emergencies backups for OS. So on on one external, and backup up again bank... I do now both Super Duper and CCC, why not have space.

I just caught this. since you are running Catalina or later. DO NOT PARTITION a drive. Format it APFS and create additional Volumes on it. Unlike partitions, volumes can grow or shrink as needed and volumes can be added or deleted non-destructively at will. Each Volume has the potential to occupy the entire remaining space on the drive if it needs it. Volumes are far more flexible and easier to manage than partitions.

To create a Volume launch Disk Utility. Select the drive in the sidebar, and on the toolbar at the top of the Disk Utility Window, click on the plus sign above the word Volume and when prompted specify a name for the volume. That is all there is to it. To delete a volume select it in the sidebar and click the minus sign above the word volume.

Volumes appear on the desktop just as any other drive, partition, or disk image file.


"Sacred cows make the best hamburger"

- Mark Twain
Re: Bank Hard Drive replace less?
joemikeb #61959 06/27/22 07:23 PM
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Yes Joe I just use word partition, as so used to it. So should use drive all time no no more using work partition? Yeah Apple tech taught me how to to drives APFS.. Funny though I still use encrypted sparse drives, which you showed on forum years ago. The encryption for APTS is PITA, as they mount on desktop, on all reboots, annoying, no way out of that Sparse encrypted just live in finder. Apple tech called me could not solve that, so still use sparse for encrypted folders..

Only ask this again sorry:

Thanks JOe, the LG you gave before was 27" LG, just $350 on Amazon....
https://www.amazon.com/LG-27UK650-W-Monitor-FreeSync-Technology/dp/B078GRM2MV

Good? wont miss 5k? I prefer just one monitor.. Used to 27" to that's nice.. but Mac Mini with a seperate display only $1100 or so vs $1800 for 24" Imac... you vote for mini and LG? The imac 24" lose monitor, plus, not much give you a Mini/ LG .... does not?m Just mostly Apple logo miss?

Ok drive X in log in items. ONly downside apple tech point out if want keep log in items to minimum as crash system sometimes, but ok.. I think I have 6 items in log in items, not too much?


"I do all my backups to HDs and save my external SSDs for use where fast I/O is important ie. my additional data drive."

Not sure understood Question.. Question was think Lacie d2 will be fine as backips for OS.. backups OS to use with M1 machines, thanks!

Re: Bank Hard Drive replace less?
kevs #61960 06/27/22 08:11 PM
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Originally Posted by kevs
Thanks JOe, the LG you gave before was 27" LG, just $350 on Amazon....
https://www.amazon.com/LG-27UK650-W-Monitor-FreeSync-Technology/dp/B078GRM2MV

Good? wont miss 5k? I prefer just one monitor.. Used to 27" to that's nice.. but Mac Mini with a seperate display only $1100 or so vs $1800 for 24" Imac... you vote for mini and LG? The imac 24" lose monitor, plus, not much give you a Mini/ LG .... does not?m Just mostly Apple logo miss?

I would vote for the Mac mini and the monitor of your choice (I'm partial to LG) over the 24" iMac. You would actually end up with a bit more powerful machine (8 processor cores vs 7 in the iMac) and if Apple releases a new M2 or M3 Mac mini in the next few years between the trade-in and what you saved over the iMac you would have almost the price of a newer model Mac mini. By the way, if you like an uncluttered desktop (like I wish mine were), there are several excellent under desk mounts for the Mac mini to get it out of sight.

Originally Posted by keys
Ok drive X in log in items. ONly downside apple tech point out if want keep log in items to minimum as crash system sometimes, but ok.. I think I have 6 items in log in items, not too much?

DO NOT PUT DRIVEDX IN THE STARTUP ITEMS LIST. Remove it from startup items then go to DriveDX > Preferences > General and check the box labeled Launch at login. It will still launch on startup but instead of through the startup items, through a "Launch Agent" or "Launch Daemon" which is Apple's preferred method.

Originally Posted by keys
Question was think Lacie d2 will be fine as backips for OS.. backups OS to use with M1 machines, thanks!

It was an indirect way of indicating I thought the LaCie would serve nicely as a Time Machine drive. Personally I would rotate the bank drive in a different, perhaps simpler, manner using only Time Machine, but there is no harm in the way you do it and it works.


"Sacred cows make the best hamburger"

- Mark Twain
Re: Bank Hard Drive replace less?
joemikeb #61961 06/27/22 08:19 PM
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Thanks JOe, ok will notate all. Did not put DRive X yet in log in items. Will look for that. I think Kayboard maestro has same thing , still with them I think end up in log in items. You agree, keep log in item to minimum.

I think the SSD for back up OS vs, is Lacie ok for that, is not getting through... I would like Lacies to do that as so much space on them in a APFS "drive"...

Re: Bank Hard Drive replace less?
kevs #61962 06/27/22 10:29 PM
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I am saying that I would use the LaCies for your backup drive. The speed of a SSD would be very expensive, and completely unnecessary overkill in the backup role. And the LaCies can be formatted APFS and therefore could potentially become bootable backups.

On the subject of bootable backups, there is a catch to using any external drive on a Mac with Apple Silicon. It won't be bootable if there is a complete failure of the internal drive. This has been discussed in detail on these forums many times, but to summarize.
  • On Apple Silicon Macs there are hidden partitions/Volumes, Preboot, iSCPreboot that are required to boot the system (these functions are in firmware on Intel Macs)
  • Those volumes are not created by the macOS installer
  • They can only be created by connecting two Macs back to back using a Thunderbolt 4 cable, booting the target Mac into Thunderbolt disk Mode and using Apple Configurator 2 and the correct installation image on the other Mac. I have done it, and it is more complicated than it looks.
  • The bootable volume is not the physical hardware itself, it is a sealed and encrypted APFS Snapshot that cannot be copied without breaking the seal and can only be created by the installer, so traditional cloning techniques will not work¹.
  • There is a deprecated Apple created utility, that can clone enough of the system to be bootable, although it is not a complete clone and third-party kernel extensions likely will not survive the cloning process. Mike Bombich uses that utility in Carbon Copy Cloner to create "bootable clone", but he does not recommend it.²
  • The moral of this story is you can clone or install macOS on an external drive on Apple Silicon Macs, but it will only be bootable with the help of the Preboot volumes on the internal drive.
  • I don't know whether Apple Configurator 2 will work on an external drive or not.


Footnote:
  1. Apple has made it clear that in the event of a drive failure they intend for you to reinstall macOS from the Recovery Drive and recover your data and third-party applications from Time Machine.
  2. Mike Bombich, the developer of Carbon Copy Cloner, recommends cloning the data volume to the external drive then booting into Recovery mode and Installing macOS if you ever need to make the external drive bootable rather than attempting to create a bootable clone. The Apple clone utility he uses in CCC may or may not work in Ventura.


"Sacred cows make the best hamburger"

- Mark Twain
Re: Bank Hard Drive replace less?
joemikeb #61963 06/28/22 01:05 AM
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kevs Offline OP
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Thanks JOe, well my main Data is on an external too, as well as backups.. Right? NO data is on and SSD internal or external.. (Data is getting near 3TB) But from what you are saying, these new Lacie d2 will be fine for BAckup OS, emergencies even in the M!, M2 world... ?

Final.. any idea why (sent few emails to Seagate rep , no response); why D2 don't have the new 20GB speed- 3.2 , but only 10GB speed? Curious on that..

Re: Bank Hard Drive replace less?
kevs #61968 06/28/22 03:02 PM
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Originally Posted by kevs
Thanks JOe, well my main Data is on an external too, as well as backups.. Right? NO data is on and SSD internal or external.. (Data is getting near 3TB) But from what you are saying, these new Lacie d2 will be fine for BAckup OS, emergencies even in the M!, M2 world... ?

Absolutely fine even in the M1, M2 World

Originally Posted by keys
Final.. any idea why (sent few emails to Seagate rep , no response); why D2 don't have the new 20GB speed- 3.2 , but only 10GB speed? Curious on that..

I can pose a few possible reasons...
  • Insufficient market demand for the faster interface
  • No supporting USB 3.2 cables, adaptors, etc are available on the market (because of insufficient demand)
  • Few if any PCs and no Mac computers have USB 3.2 ports (which is confusing because USB 3.1 Gen 2 is often marketed as USB 3.2)
  • Where high-speed throughput is desired/required, USB 4 or Thunderbolt are superior technologies with twice the throughput of USB 3.2 (not to mention twice the price)
  • External drives are a commodity product and low price is the primary deciding factor. The difference in price caused by the technology upgrade could price LaCie out of the market or negatively impact their profit margin.
  • An uninformed and/or misinformed public that is only vaguely aware of most of what we have discussed in this thread, and has been adeptly confused by marketing labels such as 'High Speed" and "SuperSpeed".


"Sacred cows make the best hamburger"

- Mark Twain
Re: Bank Hard Drive replace less?
joemikeb #61971 06/28/22 06:22 PM
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kevs Offline OP
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Thanks Joe, so no point in even looking for a Seagate or other 3.2 drive ... not really around/ exist?

And USB 4 is wonderful, but same thing, non existent as well... because externals with 3.2 or 4 cost lot more to make?

Of course, very weird, as don't remember anything like this.... I think USB 1, and the Seagate or Lacie or.. WD would make the new drives with new USB number.... I guess suddenly doing that was more expensive that in past going from 1 to 2..?

Re: Bank Hard Drive replace less?
kevs #61975 06/28/22 07:25 PM
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The drive alone is not enough, you also have to have a compatible port on the computer and a compatible cable as well as a compatible hub, and your are right about being more costly. A 6 foot USB 3.0 cable costs ~$7 a 2 meter Thunderbolt 4 cable costs $70 or ten times as much!


"Sacred cows make the best hamburger"

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