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reCaptcha a no-go with Safari
#60303 12/24/21 01:58 AM
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ryck Offline OP
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I have found that, wherever there is a reCaptcha "I'm not a robot" verification requirement, Safari never wants to play nice. I always have to open the page with Opera, and then the reCaptcha works.

Certainly I'd expect Safari might have an issue if the site is some weird place but, unfortunately, this occurs with all kinds of absolutely legitimate sites like finance, health records, dog licence renewal, et cetera. Today I thought I'd dig a little further and clicked the the reCaptcha "Terms of Reference" and it turned out to be Google Terms of Reference.

At first I thought Apple might, like me, automatically eschew anything Google, except the Safari security Preference says: "Safari uses Google Safe Browsing to identify fraudulent websites".

Maybe it's just me. Anyone else having issues with reCaptcha?

Last edited by ryck; 12/24/21 02:08 AM.

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Re: reCaptcha a no-go with Safari
ryck #60304 12/24/21 03:25 AM
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I've run into the same problem more than once, and the last time, I realized that with all the things I had tried, I'd never cleared cookies...and VOILA!

The problem cleared up immediately and hasn't recurred.

Fingers crossed.


The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire
Re: reCaptcha a no-go with Safari
artie505 #60310 12/24/21 04:11 PM
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Originally Posted by artie505
I've run into the same problem more than once, and the last time, I realized that with all the things I had tried, I'd never cleared cookies...
Am I right to assume you used "Clear History" under Safari in the menu bar? If so, do I also assume "all history"?


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Re: reCaptcha a no-go with Safari
ryck #60311 12/24/21 04:30 PM
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As I recall, I went to Prefs > Privacy > Manage Website Data... and selected/deleted everything.


The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire
Re: reCaptcha a no-go with Safari
artie505 #60312 12/24/21 04:32 PM
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The downside to clearing cookies is that you will have to log into any sites that used those cookies for an automatic login.


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Re: reCaptcha a no-go with Safari
jchuzi #60313 12/24/21 05:24 PM
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Originally Posted by jchuzi
The downside to clearing cookies is that you will have to log into any sites that used those cookies for an automatic login.
Beats heck out of the alternative!


The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire
Re: reCaptcha a no-go with Safari
artie505 #60324 12/24/21 10:27 PM
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Originally Posted by artie505
As I recall, I went to Prefs > Privacy > Manage Website Data... and selected/deleted everything.
But.....I have a short list of chosen sites in Manage Website Data because they are sites I trust. None of them requires reCaptcha and the problem site yesterday (Dog Licence renewal) is not one of them. The only other item in the list is something used by Apple called settings.sol. Maybe I should start by deleting it.

Last edited by ryck; 12/24/21 10:29 PM.

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Re: reCaptcha a no-go with Safari
ryck #60372 12/26/21 08:31 PM
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I just ran into the problem again in Safari, and clearing cookies didn't help. frown


The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire
Re: reCaptcha a no-go with Safari
artie505 #60375 12/27/21 12:36 AM
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Have you tried emptying the Safari cache?


Jon

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Re: reCaptcha a no-go with Safari
jchuzi #60376 12/27/21 01:33 AM
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Cookie clears Safari cache every minute.


The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire
Re: reCaptcha a no-go with Safari
artie505 #60378 12/27/21 11:16 AM
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Happy (at least for the moment) update: My primary problem with reCaptcha (which I've been erroneously calling Captcha), being unable to get past it to log in to PayPal, was finally solved by unchecking Safari > Prefs > Privacy > Prevent cross-site tracking.

Rechecking the box afterwards had no negative effects.

Now, to see what happens at other sites.

Thinking about it, I think I did the same thing earlier, rather than having cleared cookies. Sorry ryck. Hope this works. (And so much for the scientific method! tongue )


The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire
Re: reCaptcha a no-go with Safari
artie505 #60379 12/27/21 02:42 PM
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Originally Posted by artie505
My primary problem with reCaptcha .... being unable to get past it to log in to PayPal, was finally solved by unchecking Safari > Prefs > Privacy > Prevent cross-site tracking.
I also use "Prevent cross-site tracking". Do you recall if the issue at PayPal was logging intoPayPal directly or if it was after being sent there by another site to complete a payment?

It seems PayPal may have been a site where I had an issue but I can't recall with certainty. I just tried a straight-ahead log-in at PayPal, with "Prevent cross-site tracking" checked, and it worked fine.

Last edited by ryck; 12/27/21 02:43 PM.

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Re: reCaptcha a no-go with Safari
ryck #60381 12/27/21 04:17 PM
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I just went through this last night, so it's fresh in my mind, and I'm not dealing with weeks/months old "recollections."

My problem was with logging in to PayPal directly, and had nothing to do with making a payment, but I'm not sure why I was asked to log in in the first place, because it's not a usual occurrence. Ah ha! The light comes on: I was trying to access PayPal from a link in an email from them rather than from my usual bookmark, and somehow, when that failed, along with the failure I lost my bookmark's "logged in" status (If that makes sense).

When reCaptcha didn't work, I cleared cookies as I thought I had done previously, and when that didn't work, something clicked in a corner of my mind, and I unchecked that box and got in immediately.

I then rechecked the box, and I'm now able to log in to PayPal with no issues. (I'm dealing with PayPal in this post, but I also had a problem with at least one other site last night which drove me to Firefox.)

I never focused on the Captcha/reCaptcha thing, but I"m pretty sure that my problems have all been with reCaptcha. I'll pay attention going forward.


The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire
Re: reCaptcha a no-go with Safari
artie505 #60385 12/27/21 06:41 PM
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Originally Posted by artie505
I'm dealing with PayPal in this post, but I also had a problem with at least one other site last night which drove me to Firefox.
So, it appears confirmed to be only a "Safari c/w reCaptcha" issue. The reCaptcha connection worked with FireFox in your case and, in mine, always works with Opera. I wonder if it could be connected to Apple's focus on security. Does Safari see something in reCaptcha that rings an alarm bell, but that other browsers don't worry about?

Last edited by ryck; 12/27/21 06:42 PM.

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Re: reCaptcha a no-go with Safari
ryck #60388 12/27/21 07:21 PM
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Originally Posted by ryck
[quote=artie505]Does Safari see something in reCaptcha that rings an alarm bell, but that other browsers don't worry about?
I've got to call AppleCare; I'll add the question to my list.

But don't hold your breath. This call has been on my to-do list for months. crazy


The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire
Re: reCaptcha a no-go with Safari
artie505 #60403 12/29/21 03:49 PM
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Originally Posted by artie505
[I've got to call AppleCare; I'll add the question to my list.
Now you can also provide a clue. I just created an account at a legit retailer and, after Safari rejected the reCaptcha, I got this error message: "Parameter Missing or Invalid: Required parameter missing or invalid: customer"

When I could not create the account with Safari, I used Opera and it did the job. Since the missing parameter was "customer", and I was now a registered customer, I thought Safari might act differently so I tried logging into my account with it. No dice, just the ever-spinning wheel.

Last edited by ryck; 12/29/21 03:52 PM.

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Re: reCaptcha a no-go with Safari
ryck #60405 12/29/21 04:23 PM
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Update: I have since tried unchecking "Prevent cross-site tracking" and was able to log into the new account with Safari and without going through reCaptcha. However, the cart was empty when it should have shown 2 items. I reordered the items and the cart showed two. I logged out and logged in with Opera and it showed two items. I logged in again with Safari and it had an empty cart.

I repeated the process a couple of times and Safari always empties the cart.

Last edited by ryck; 12/29/21 04:23 PM.

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Re: reCaptcha a no-go with Safari
ryck #60408 12/29/21 10:14 PM
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Are you sure it is Safari that is emptying the cart (ie. erasing the cookies) and not a third party extension?


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Re: reCaptcha a no-go with Safari
joemikeb #60411 12/30/21 07:55 PM
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No, I'm not sure. The only evidence I have is that the site retained purchase information consistently with Opera but lost it consistently with Safari.

Last edited by ryck; 12/30/21 07:55 PM.

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Re: reCaptcha a no-go with Safari
ryck #60412 12/31/21 12:34 AM
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ITS THE COOKIES!

Originally Posted by ryck
I wonder if it could be connected to Apple's focus on security. Does Safari see something in reCaptcha that rings an alarm bell, but that other browsers don't worry about?
Safari's "Prevent Cross Site" tracking is a much more sophisticated and discriminating approach to the old "Do not accept cookies" from websites you do not navigate to. Apparently the Captcha used by the site you were attempting to log onto was blocked when it attempted to set a tracking cookie on your computer.

As to the shopping cart, most sites keep the shopping cart in a Cookie. Cookies are browser independent so Safari does not see Opera's cookies and therefore cannot see the shopping cart cookie filled in Opera. The same is true with any two different browsers. As to erasing the cookies there is not standard function in Safari for doing that Automagically but there are a number of extensions and utilities such as Cookie that do. Sometimes it isn't apparent what Extensions do so check Safari > Preferences > Extensions first to see what, if any extensions are active then in Finder launch the extension and check the preferences to be sure what it does.


If we knew what it was we were doing, it wouldn't be called research, would it?

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Re: reCaptcha a no-go with Safari
joemikeb #60414 12/31/21 03:56 PM
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Originally Posted by joemikeb
Apparently the Captcha used by the site you were attempting to log onto was blocked when it attempted to set a tracking cookie on your computer.
That would be every site that uses reCaptcha, not just this one.

Originally Posted by joemikeb
As to erasing the cookies there is not standard function in Safari for doing that Automagically but there are a number of extensions and utilities such as Cookie that do.
I am a "Cookie" user and have it set to remove unwanted cookies every 5 minutes and at browser quit. So, as the light slowly turns on, I assume that Opera removed the cookies on quit but Safari got blamed. blush

Originally Posted by joemikeb
Sometimes it isn't apparent what Extensions do so check Safari > Preferences > Extensions first to see what, if any extensions are active then in Finder launch the extension and check the preferences to be sure what it does.
A peek in the Extensions window shows one extension in the big box on the right side - Ghostery Lite V 1.2.0 - and eight in the upright box on the left - 4 Ghostery Lite (all checked off and all V1.2.0), and 4 Wipr (all checked off but different versions V1.31, V 1 1.31, V 2 1.31, and V 3 1.31)

Wipr Preferences cannot be reviewed in Finder, that function is greyed out.

Last edited by ryck; 12/31/21 04:03 PM.

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Re: reCaptcha a no-go with Safari
ryck #60418 12/31/21 06:10 PM
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Originally Posted by ryck
Originally Posted by joemikeb
Apparently the Captcha used by the site you were attempting to log onto was blocked when it attempted to set a tracking cookie on your computer.
That would be every site that uses reCaptcha, not just this one.
I am working on that one as I have not encountered any problem with reCaptcha on any of my Macs, iPads, or iPhones (other than the aforementioned equivocal images) and I run with Prevent Cross-Site Tracking on at all times and seldom use any other browser other than Safari. Which leaves the question of what is different between your Mac and mine. FWIW the only Safari extensions I use are 1Password, AdBlock Pro, Clip to DEVONthink, Instameet, and WIPR and I haven't customized the settings of any of those. Of the five only AdBlock Pro and WIPR effect the network. I am using a beta version of MacOS, but I have run the same version you have and did not have any reCaptcha issues. I do have Private Relay activated, but that should effect all browsers equally. In the immortal words of Yul Bryner as the King of Siam, "It is a puzzlement". You might try turning off your extensions, ONE AT A TIME (or in the case of multi=part extensions such as Wipr ONE PART AT A TIME to see which, if any, is effecting reCaptcha behavior.

Originally Posted by ryck
I am a "Cookie" user and have it set to remove unwanted cookies every 5 minutes and at browser quit. So, as the light slowly turns on, I assume that Opera removed the cookies on quit but Safari got blamed. blush
As cookies are used by so many web sites and especially e-commerce shopping carts removing unwanted cookies every 5 minutes may be a bit extreme and could easily impact your browsing experience (particularly if a given site embedded a tracker in the shopping cart cookie). You might consider just deleting cookies when you quit the browser and rely on Safari's built-in content blockers and Ghostery to prevent cookies phoning home.

Originally Posted by ryck
A peek in the Extensions window shows one extension in the big box on the right side - Ghostery Lite V 1.2.0 - and eight in the upright box on the left - 4 Ghostery Lite (all checked off and all V1.2.0), and 4 Wipr (all checked off but different versions V1.31, V 1 1.31, V 2 1.31, and V 3 1.31)

Wipr Preferences cannot be reviewed in Finder, that function is greyed out.
The left hand column lists the extensions you have installed and the checkbox in that column indicates you have set it to active. The box on the right shows additional information about the extension you have selected in the left hand column. Some extensions such as WIPR are installed as single entities but the installation includes multiple parts, each with a specific function which can be tuned on or off independently of the other parts. In the case of WIPR there are four parts WIPR Extra, WIPR Part 1, Wipr Part 2, and Wipr Part 3 and they are all have the same version 1.31. By-the-way as far as I can tell the only option with Wipr is On or Off so there are no preference settings. Choosing which part(s) to run on or off is equivalent to what you would find in a Preferences or Settings menu.

Last edited by joemikeb; 12/31/21 06:11 PM.

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Re: reCaptcha a no-go with Safari
joemikeb #60426 01/01/22 12:46 PM
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Getting back into the mix...

I've now run into the reCaptcha pane not loading in Safari problem with a regular pictorial Captcha pane (trying to log in to PayPal on the same page that has heretofore presented me with a reCaptcha, if it makes a difference). The only extensions I"m running are Roadblock and Wipr, and neither of them is involved. My only way to get around it is by unchecking that box. (Side note: Wipr Extra installed on my MBP along with the first update that included it, but it disappeared with the next update and has never reappeared, even after I trashed Wipr and reinstalled it.)

I don't run into re/Captchas very often, so I can't say it with certainty, but I think I run into the problem with every site that uses one.

I have Cookie set to clear cookies every minute, and that's caused me to lose shopping carts on Eddie Bauer and one or two other sites. I just hot key Cookie off and redo my purchase when that happens.

I run Safari virtually exclusively, so I can't offer any site by site comparisons.


The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire
Re: reCaptcha a no-go with Safari
artie505 #60428 01/01/22 04:43 PM
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Originally Posted by artie505
I don't run into re/Captchas very often, so I can't say it with certainty, but I think I run into the problem with every site that uses one.
I can say with absolute certainty that, with Safari, I have had a problem (the spinning wheel) every single time since....I can't provide a start date with any certainty, but it's been quite a while.

Originally Posted by artie505
I have Cookie set to clear cookies every minute, and that's caused me to lose shopping carts on Eddie Bauer and one or two other sites. I just hot key Cookie off and redo my purchase when that happens.
Bauer is one of the sites I visit once in a while. Like other periodic-vendor visits, my routine has been to add them to my list of favourites until the transactions are done. That way the cart can remain in place until I've finalized the purchase decision(s). i.e. I may wish to add or subtract to an order over a couple of days.

Last edited by ryck; 01/01/22 04:44 PM.

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Re: reCaptcha a no-go with Safari
ryck #60429 01/01/22 07:49 PM
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Originally Posted by ryck
I can say with absolute certainty that, with Safari, I have had a problem (the spinning wheel) every single time since....I can't provide a start date with any certainty, but it's been quite a while.
Maybe since Apple changed the pref pane and added that check box?
I'll have to start paying attention. The working re/Captchas I remember probably came up after I switched from Safari to Firefox.

Originally Posted by ryck
Bauer is one of the sites I visit once in a while. Like other periodic-vendor visits, my routine has been to add them to my list of favourites until the transactions are done. That way the cart can remain in place until I've finalized the purchase decision(s). i.e. I may wish to add or subtract to an order over a couple of days.
I invariably close purchases within minutes of making them, so I use a hot key to turn Cookie completely off for the minimal amount of time involved.


The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire
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