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Re: Coronavirus information: assorted web links
freelance #58188 03/05/21 08:55 PM
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Originally Posted by freelance
We are both looking forward to our second jabs, but have to wait 12 weeks.

We get our second jab in April (6th and 16th – different age groups).

That's only 4 weeks.


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Re: Coronavirus information: assorted web links
freelance #58190 03/05/21 09:00 PM
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Originally Posted by freelance
I got the Pfizer jab. The next day, I felt like I've been hit in the arm with a sledge hammer. It was soreness, not pain, and it lasted a day. I felt fine otherwise. Don't know if it was the vaccine or the injection technique.

My wife got the AstraZeneca jab. She felt "frail" in the evening after her shot and went to bed early. Felt fine the next day.

We are both looking forward to our second jabs, but have to wait 12 weeks. Our government has decided to make us wait longer for the second jab so that more people could get their first jab. Makes sense to me.

We get our second jab in April (6th and 16th – different age groups).

Glad both of you are fine. In actuality, I am feeling a little tired, and a little "flush". However, I felt some what like that before I got the shot. My wife though is definitely feeling it. In fact, she is resting on the couch today (she was originally going to play cards with her Korean friends). As far as the injection technique, neither of us noticed and/or felt anything different, although I did feel a little "pinch" this time.

I don't know if it's s good idea to stretch out the time between doses. The clinical trials were performed with specific time frames between doses (21 days for Pfizer, and 28 for Moderna). I of course know those numbers are not set in stone, and in fact recently, it has been mentioned that the time frame between doses can be 4 to 6 weeks. (Fortunately, ours was 31 days (instead of the originally-stated 28 days), so we are good). But 12 weeks sounds like a long time. I just hope for your wife and yourself, those recommendations are based on solid scientific facts.

As it is, my wife and I are still going to continue with our self-quarantine, just like before we got the shots. I do suspect that we will eventually need a booster shot, given that the Moderna vaccine was developed based on the original strain of the virus. But fortunately, both Moderna and Pfizer are working on developing such a booster shot.

Last edited by MartyByrde; 03/05/21 09:16 PM.
Re: Coronavirus information: assorted web links
artie505 #58191 03/05/21 09:02 PM
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Originally Posted by artie505
Originally Posted by freelance
We are both looking forward to our second jabs, but have to wait 12 weeks.

We get our second jab in April (6th and 16th – different age groups).

That's only 4 weeks.

The post where that came from does not specifically state when his wife and himself got the first one. Maybe it's in an earlier post?

Re: Coronavirus information: assorted web links
MartyByrde #58193 03/05/21 09:28 PM
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Originally Posted by MartyByrde
Originally Posted by artie505
Originally Posted by freelance
We are both looking forward to our second jabs, but have to wait 12 weeks.

We get our second jab in April (6th and 16th – different age groups).

That's only 4 weeks.

The post where that came from does not specifically state when his wife and himself got the first one. Maybe it's in an earlier post?

Oops! I misread freelance's post as saying he just got his first shot, but he actually did get it a while ago.


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In Memory of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire
Re: Coronavirus information: assorted web links
MartyByrde #58197 03/05/21 11:01 PM
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Originally Posted by MartyByrde
As it is, I expect we'll eventually need a booster shot, and fortunately Moderna (and Pfizer) are working on one.
At the rate COVID is mutating, I will not be surprised if the booster shots become an annual, or even semi-annual, ordeal similar to the influenza shot. It is a virus after all, and mutation is a viral thing.

In the meantime I have seen reports that "COVID Recovery Clinics" opening up all over the country to treat the very long lasting after effects of having had COVID-19. Apparently they are a growth industry. COVID-19, the infection that keeps on infecting.



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Re: Coronavirus information: assorted web links
joemikeb #58198 03/05/21 11:24 PM
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Originally Posted by joemikeb
Originally Posted by MartyByrde
As it is, I expect we'll eventually need a booster shot, and fortunately Moderna (and Pfizer) are working on one.
At the rate COVID is mutating, I will not be surprised if the booster shots become an annual, or even semi-annual, ordeal similar to the influenza shot. It is a virus after all, and mutation is a viral thing.

I'm not surprised either. Given that the booster shot would be mainly in response to these new variants, I would think, though, that after our booster shot for the Moderna vaccine, a permanent vaccine would be the norm for COVID, and thus that would just be another one my wife and I would get every year. As it is, we always get the one for the flu (high dosage variety) as soon as it becomes available, typically in August or September.

Re: Coronavirus information: assorted web links
artie505 #58199 03/06/21 12:06 AM
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Originally Posted by artie505
Originally Posted by freelance
We are both looking forward to our second jabs, but have to wait 12 weeks.

We get our second jab in April (6th and 16th – different age groups).

That's only 4 weeks.

Yeah, I got my first jab on January 25th. The hospitals tend to give the Pfizer jab, which is harder to handle. The clinics give the AstraZeneca jab, which doesn't require such specialised refrigeration.

They both appear to be doing the job better than anyone predicted.

The whole country is supposed to be be let off the leash on June 21st. I've already booked our "staycation" in the UK. The first date I could get was in August.


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Re: Coronavirus information: assorted web links
freelance #58200 03/06/21 12:24 AM
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Originally Posted by freelance
Originally Posted by artie505
Originally Posted by freelance
We are both looking forward to our second jabs, but have to wait 12 weeks.

We get our second jab in April (6th and 16th – different age groups).

That's only 4 weeks.

Yeah, I got my first jab on January 25th. The hospitals tend to give the Pfizer jab, which is harder to handle. The clinics give the AstraZeneca jab, which doesn't require such specialised refrigeration.

They both appear to be doing the job better than anyone predicted.

The whole country is supposed to be be let off the leash on June 21st. I've already booked our "staycation" in the UK. The first date I could get was in August.

Not having such differences here between the Moderna and Pfizer vaccines. The Johnson & Johnson vaccine is just starting to come, and like the one from AstraZeneca, can be stored in a refrigerator. I suspect, though, that there will be no such difficulties with the J & J vaccine, given how long the practitioners have been working with the Moderna and Pfizer ones.

Texas has already lifted all restrictions, and Mississippi will follow soon. Myself, I think that's crazy, given that all the new strains are appearing.

As for when the US will be "off the leash", don't see it happening any time soon. But if all of the UK will be "free", maybe we can visit our son and daughter-in-law in the fall (she is actually in the hospital now waiting to deliver our grand daughter).

Last edited by MartyByrde; 03/06/21 12:26 AM.
Re: Coronavirus information: assorted web links
freelance #58201 03/06/21 04:22 AM
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Originally Posted by freelance
I got the Pfizer jab. The next day, I felt like I've been hit in the arm with a sledge hammer. It was soreness, not pain, and it lasted a day. I felt fine otherwise. Don't know if it was the vaccine or the injection technique.

My wife got the AstraZeneca jab. She felt "frail" in the evening after her shot and went to bed early. Felt fine the next day.
A few comments:

1. You can minimize soreness at the injection location. If it’s your arm, have the jab placed in your dominant one. This helps to dissipate the injected volume, which lessens local discomfort. It also helps to work your deltoids by moving your upper arms from your side up to your shoulders (‘chicken flaps’), let’s say 10 times every half hour for several hours. You’ll still feel the jab, but it won’t be nearly as annoying if you notice it at all. Secondary effects like fever, chills, tiredness, general malaise etc. are due to your immune system, and tend to last no more than a day. They also tend to be more pronounced after the second dose.

2. While two doses is a vaccination ‘standard’ (ideally making contact with the actual pathogen the 3rd exposure), the second dose of a particular vaccine may not boost your immune system much beyond what the first achieved. That’s why the J&J vaccine (developed by Janssen Pharma in the Netherlands) only uses one dose, and the Pfizer vaccine (developed by BioNTech in Germany) uses two. Similarly, while the interval between dose 1 and 2 usually is several weeks, it may be longer, as is now practiced in the UK. There are indications that this may be even more effective than shorter intervals, although this depends on both the vaccine and the actual duration of the interval.

3. The percentage vaccine effectiveness you hear about usually refers to the chance of NOT getting MILD disease. The chance of NOT getting more severe disease, hospitalization or death is increasingly larger, and runs from about 80% for no severe disease to about 100% for no death (J&J; Pfizer & Moderna numbers are somewhat higher). Bottom line: take any vaccine that’s available to you, as soon as you’re eligible.

4. Variants only develop when the disease is actively going around, be it endemic or pandemic. As soon as that stops, so does the occurrence of variants. That’s another reason (beyond protecting people) why it’s important to stop the disease’s rampage ASAP, a.o. by maintaining masking and social distancing, and avoiding crowds, particularly indoors. Because we don’t yet know if vaccinated people can harbor and spread virus, this will be necessary for everyone, vaccinated or not, until ‘herd immunity’ levels are achieved, usually beyond 70% of the population. Even so, for the foreseeable future expect periodic (re)vaccination as with the flu.


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Re: Coronavirus information: assorted web links
alternaut #58202 03/06/21 04:59 AM
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Originally Posted by alternaut
Originally Posted by freelance
I got the Pfizer jab. The next day, I felt like I've been hit in the arm with a sledge hammer. It was soreness, not pain, and it lasted a day. I felt fine otherwise. Don't know if it was the vaccine or the injection technique.

My wife got the AstraZeneca jab. She felt "frail" in the evening after her shot and went to bed early. Felt fine the next day.
A few comments:

1. You can minimize soreness at the injection location. If it’s your arm, have the jab placed in your dominant one. This helps to dissipate the injected volume, which lessens local discomfort. It also helps to work your deltoids by moving your upper arms from your side up to your shoulders (‘chicken flaps’), let’s say 10 times every half hour for several hours. You’ll still feel the jab, but it won’t be nearly as annoying if you notice it at all. Secondary effects like fever, chills, tiredness, general malaise etc. are due to your immune system, and tend to last no more than a day. They also tend to be more pronounced after the second dose.

2. While two doses is a vaccination ‘standard’ (ideally making contact with the actual pathogen the 3rd exposure), the second dose of a particular vaccine may not boost your immune system much beyond what the first achieved. That’s why the J&J vaccine (developed by Janssen Pharma in the Netherlands) only uses one dose, and the Pfizer vaccine (developed by BioNTech in Germany) uses two. Similarly, while the interval between dose 1 and 2 usually is several weeks, it may be longer, as is now practiced in the UK. There are indications that this may be even more effective than shorter intervals, although this depends on both the vaccine and the actual duration of the interval.

3. The percentage vaccine effectiveness you hear about usually refers to the chance of NOT getting MILD disease. The chance of NOT getting more severe disease, hospitalization or death is increasingly larger, and runs from about 80% for no severe disease to about 100% for no death (J&J; Pfizer & Moderna numbers are somewhat higher). Bottom line: take any vaccine that’s available to you, as soon as you’re eligible.

4. Variants only develop when the disease is actively going around, be it endemic or pandemic. As soon as that stops, so does the occurrence of variants. That’s another reason (beyond protecting people) why it’s important to stop the disease’s rampage ASAP, a.o. by maintaining masking and social distancing, and avoiding crowds, particularly indoors. Because we don’t yet know if vaccinated people can harbor and spread virus, this will be necessary for everyone, vaccinated or not, until ‘herd immunity’ levels are achieved, usually beyond 70% of the population. Even so, for the foreseeable future expect periodic (re)vaccination as with the flu.

Much of what you say is well stated. Just a few comments:

1. I did not feel a thing when I got the first dose of the Moderna vaccine. My arm, though, was sore the next day, and the day after (same for my wife). With the second dose, I did feel a very, very slight "pinch", but hardly noticeable. However, today it is rather sore (more so than with the first dose), although the pain is slowly subsiding.

2. Regarding the number of doses, it's important to remember that the clinical trials for both the Moderna and Pfizer vaccines were conducted with initially specific intervals between the 2 doses: 21 days for the Pfizer vaccine, and 28 days for the Moderna vaccine. The results of those critical trials is what lead to each of them being approved by the various "agencies", with it being the FDA here in the US. Somewhat recently, it has been stated that 4 to 6 weeks between the two doses for either one is acceptable. But it has yet to be demonstrated that only 1 dose is all that is needed. Thus, it is best to get the 2 doses. Again, that is the case for the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines. For Johnson & Johnson, and AstraZeneca, the clinical trials showed that only one dose is needed. As I mentioned above, I am happy that both my wife and I received the required 2 doses of the Moderna Vaccine, and also that they were 31 days apart, which is very close to the original 28 days.

3. Agree totally about getting whichever one is available. Here in Washington state, when one has an initial appointment, there will soon be 3 vaccines available: Moderna, Pfizer, and Johnson & Johnson. In actuality, when my wife and I made our first appointment, we did not know it was the Moderna vaccine until the time and day of our appointment. (The AstraZeneca vaccine should be receiving FDA approval soon, from what I have read).

4. Also agree with #4. And yes, it is not known right now as to whether vaccinated folks (like my wife and I) can harbor and spread the virus. Be that as it may, we are STILL going to do the same things we have been doing: wearing masks, staying 6 feet apart from others, etc. And we are even more stringent: myself I only venture outside a couple of times a week (we do go for walks near our place), and maybe once a week to go to Costco and/or HMart (a Korean store). Same with my wife, although she also (usually once a week) gets together to play Korean cards with 3 others. Next month, though, weather permitting, I will start my usual spring activity of picking ferns. I can't wait, as it is really good exercise, I'm out in the fresh air, and my wife and her sister make some good stuff from it. Plus, where I go is rather isolated (although not very far from our place), and hence don't have to worry much at all about masking up, 6 feet apart, etc.

In the "near" future, I expect the way it will go will be as follows:

1. Not sure how soon, but my wife and I will get a Moderna booster shot, which will be (I believe) to combat all these new strains that have been arising (or at least as many as possible).

2. After that, a COVID-19 vaccine will most likely be a yearly event (like getting a flu shot), and whichever one we get, it should be for combatting all "strains" of COVID-19, ie, like the Flu shot. I am just making an assumption that will be the case, but it seems reasonable. If and when Pfizer and Moderna get to that point, I don't know if it will still require 2 doses, or maybe just one.

On that last point, about 12 or so years ago, my wife and I got the Shingles Vaccine, and at that time, it was only one dose. However, in recent years, apparently a more effective Shingles Vaccine was developed, and it required 2 doses within 2 to 6 months of each other. My wife and I got them in November 2019 and March 2020.

Last edited by MartyByrde; 03/06/21 11:44 PM.
Re: Coronavirus information: assorted web links
alternaut #58459 03/29/21 03:02 PM
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A study is being done to determine if mixing vaccines would be a safe way to ensure future supplies. However, there may also be an important second benefit: ".... using alternating vaccines between an individual's two doses could actually produce better overall protection against emerging variants of the virus."


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Re: Coronavirus information: assorted web links
ryck #58460 03/29/21 03:10 PM
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An interesting theory that will need to be carefully evaluated under controlled conditions to either prove or disprove....the fact that we are all depending on the results of the original clinical trials, conducted with very narrow constraints, leads one to hope that this expanded testing will provide the data required to open up our vaccination efforts with more flexible guidelines.


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Re: Coronavirus information: assorted web links
alternaut #59551 09/27/21 05:42 PM
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Here's an interesting vaccine breakthrough....vaccine patches.


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Re: Coronavirus information: assorted web links
ryck #59552 09/27/21 05:59 PM
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Can't beat Salad Dressing!


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In Memory of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire
Re: Coronavirus information: assorted web links
artie505 #59553 09/27/21 09:35 PM
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Originally Posted by artie505
Can't beat Salad Dressing!

Hey, if it works it would beat an injection every time in my opinion. The fact a nut like Flynn gets this much press coverage is bad enough, but it is tragic how many apparently sane people get taken in by his wild allegations. Even when as in the Arizona ballot test, even those who dearly want to find even the most minute evidence of fraud, could find no shred of evidence.



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Re: Coronavirus information: assorted web links
artie505 #59554 09/27/21 09:57 PM
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Originally Posted by artie505
Can't beat Salad Dressing!
Hahaha...and, staying on the food theme, it's obvious that Flynn is either a fruitcake or a banana.


ryck

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Re: Coronavirus information: assorted web links
alternaut #59609 10/08/21 02:21 PM
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The Colorado hospital system says it will deny transplants to the unvaccinated in 'almost all situations'. Good…..and even better that other hospital jurisdictions are moving the same direction. We can only hope that the concept evolves into policies that would have unvaccinated Covid victims actually booted out of beds that are needed by those with critical “not self-inflicted” needs, thereby allowing those people, including children, to get their life-saving operations.

Last edited by ryck; 10/08/21 02:31 PM.

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Re: Coronavirus information: assorted web links
ryck #59612 10/08/21 06:30 PM
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What's more important qua desired is that those jurisdictions which are experiencing high numbers of the unvaccinated winding up in hospitals (especially ICUs) and subsequently dying (thereby thinning the herd) are decreasing the SQ (stupid quotient) and thereby increasing the IQ of the affected population. Eugenics lives!
But if you don't like that (accurate) depiction of the situation, you can revert to Darwin's "survival of the fittest" — all of the unvaccinated dead and dying from COVID-19 are ipso facto awarded the Darwin Award. Mazel tov!

Re: Coronavirus information: assorted web links
grelber #59617 10/09/21 12:55 AM
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Originally Posted by grelber
What's more important qua desired is that those jurisdictions which are experiencing high numbers of the unvaccinated winding up in hospitals (especially ICUs) and subsequently dying (thereby thinning the herd) are decreasing the SQ (stupid quotient).....
The problem is that they can take several weeks to die. And, while they are in hospital, occupying ICU beds, others are unable to get critical life-saving surgeries and they die.

Last edited by ryck; 10/09/21 12:56 AM.

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Re: Coronavirus information: assorted web links
alternaut #59636 10/14/21 02:50 PM
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It's very clear from the quotes that the young school kids are vastly smarter than the morons with the placards.


ryck

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Re: Coronavirus information: assorted web links
ryck #59648 10/18/21 11:22 AM
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Proof that Einstein was right about human stupidity being infinite: Threats, Resignations and 100 New Laws: Why Public Health Is in Crisis


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