An open community 
of Macintosh users,
for Macintosh users.

FineTunedMac Dashboard widget now available! Download Here

Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2
Freaked out!
#58915 06/17/21 05:44 PM
Joined: Sep 2009
Likes: 3
OP Offline

Joined: Sep 2009
Likes: 3
I just ordered something from a company online. They sent me a code on my phone for a discount. I never gave them m phone number! I ordered from my mac not my phone. I looked at my autofill info for credit cards, forms, contacts, etc., and it's not there except for contacts. I do have my info in my contacts because I thought I had to to get messages. I don't like this. Is there a way to block that info from coming off my computer to online companies? I asked them how they got it and am awaiting a response. mad


MacBook Pro - M2, Ventura 13.6
Safari Tech Prev 17.0
Safari 16.6
Firefox 116.0.2
iPhone 7 Version 15.8




Re: Freaked out!
plantsower #58916 06/17/21 06:10 PM
Joined: Aug 2009
Likes: 7
Offline

Joined: Aug 2009
Likes: 7
Assuming that you established an account with this company, log in and look at your personal information. You may have inadvertently given your phone number. Another possibility is that you used autofill when you made the order and it filled in your phone number without your noticing. If that's the case, the next time you should manually delete that info.

Other than that, I can't offer any input.

Another thought: Go to Safari > Preferences > Autofill. Next to "User names and passwords", click Edit... Contacts will open with your info. You can delete your phone number if you like: You probably know it by heart, so the typed number won't be missed!

Last edited by jchuzi; 06/17/21 06:48 PM.

Jon

macOS 11.7.10, iMac Retina 5K 27-inch, late 2014, 3.5 GHz Intel Core i5, 1 TB fusion drive, 16 GB RAM, Epson SureColor P600, Photoshop CC, Lightroom CC, MS Office 365
Re: Freaked out!
jchuzi #58917 06/17/21 06:58 PM
Joined: Sep 2009
Likes: 3
OP Offline

Joined: Sep 2009
Likes: 3
Hi Jon:

I haven't established an account, and the text came in before I paid or filled out any billing or shipping info. That's why I was so surprised and angered. And, like I said, my autofill info doesn't contain my phone number unless it dragged it out of my contacts. I've ordered a lot of stuff online and this has never happened.

I purchased the product using an extension offered by my credit card for discounts, and they found one. Now I am wondering if that's why it happened. I believe that is the only time I've gotten a discount from that extension. I noticed that if I don't give the main credit card involved permission to call or text me they won't alert me in case there is an unauthorized activity on my account. They use it for other things too, so I guess I'm stuck if that's what happened. I use my credit card for everything online, so I guess it's linked to the extension along with permission to call or text. I don't know. Time will tell if I use that extension again.

Assuming that you established an account with this company, log in and look at your personal information. You may have inadvertently given your phone number. Another possibility is that you used autofill when you made the order and it filled in your phone number without your noticing. If that's the case, the next time you should manually delete that info.

Other than that, I can't offer any input. [/quote]


MacBook Pro - M2, Ventura 13.6
Safari Tech Prev 17.0
Safari 16.6
Firefox 116.0.2
iPhone 7 Version 15.8




Re: Freaked out!
plantsower #58918 06/17/21 07:53 PM
Joined: Aug 2009
Likes: 7
Offline

Joined: Aug 2009
Likes: 7
That extension may very well have been the culprit. Instead of using that one, go to Safari > Safari Extensions and search for Coupons. You'll get a lot of hits. I have not used any of them so I can't offer a recommendation.


Jon

macOS 11.7.10, iMac Retina 5K 27-inch, late 2014, 3.5 GHz Intel Core i5, 1 TB fusion drive, 16 GB RAM, Epson SureColor P600, Photoshop CC, Lightroom CC, MS Office 365
Re: Freaked out!
plantsower #58919 06/17/21 08:07 PM
Joined: Aug 2009
Likes: 16
Moderator
Offline
Moderator

Joined: Aug 2009
Likes: 16
It is entirely possible, even probable, that through the auspices of an information broker, very likely Google but there are many others), you're telephone number was gleaned from entirely different transactions with entirely different companies, possibly months or even years apart in time. It is equally likely they have your credit card number, social security number, address, credit rating, bank account number, and purchase history as well. The company you are doing business with may have no idea where the information came from as it was provided to them through a network of service providers and information brokers.

There are lots of minute bits of information that taken together can uniquely identify, if not you as an individual, at least the browser you use. Cover Your Tracks is a handy tool created by the Electronic Frontiers Foundation that will tell you if you have such a signature and how unique it is. Remember the more unique your signature is the more precisely it identifies you. Unfortunately browsers with no signature are useless on all but the most basic web sites and unusable in on line commerce.

Recently there has been a surge in interest about internet privacy and the most prominent villains are Google (73% of web sties use some form of Google tracking), Facebook, and Amazon. This DuckDuckGo blog article describes Googles latest tool that combines bits of information from any number of different sources to yield a stunningly complete dossier on you and your purchasing habits.

I am not a conspiracy theorist, by any stretch of the imagination, but this issue has reached critical levels. You need to...
  • Inform yourself of the dangers DuckDuckGo's Privacy Blog and EFF's Privacy Issues are good places to start.
  • Eliminate any traces of Google and Google products from your computer and other devices.
  • Switch to a search engine such as DuckDuckGo, Qwant, or Ecosia that does not sell their data.
  • Use a browser like Safari, Brave, or even TOR that has builtin tracking protection, and set the tracking options to their highest practical levels
  • Keep MacOS, iOS, and iPadOS scrupulously up to date
  • Accept Cookies only from sites you visit.
  • In addition to Safari's builtin tracking protection, use a good third party adblocker and anti-tracking app such as AdBlock Pro and Wipr.
  • avoid social media sites and if you must use them be sure your privacy and security settings are at the highest possible level
  • Allways remain aware and cautious. Remember, once your data is out there, there is no way of calling it back other than possibly going into Witness Protection. (And that is closer to fact than either of us would like to believe.)


If we knew what it was we were doing, it wouldn't be called research, would it?

— Albert Einstein
Re: Freaked out!
joemikeb #58920 06/17/21 08:29 PM
Joined: Sep 2009
Likes: 3
OP Offline

Joined: Sep 2009
Likes: 3
I try not to use Google and have my browser default set at DuckDuckGo anyway, though I don't know that I trust it.

Which Browsers don't have signatures?

How do I avoid Google if places like Amazon rely on it?

I do get a report off my mac of those websites trying to get info.

I already have my prefs set to only get cookies from sites I visit.

I mostly use Safari and Tor but Tor sometimes won't let me in because I look suspicious or something like that.

I already have Adblock Plus and others that don't have permission to see personal info. I am now d/ling Adblock Pro for Safari. Thanks. Unfortunately, I do have other extensions that have access to my credit card info, etc. These are extensions that I want to keep. I guess I need to make a decision. One of them is that extension I use for coupons. Darn!

Originally Posted by joemikeb
It is entirely possible, even probable, that through the auspices of an information broker, very likely Google but there are many others), you're telephone number was gleaned from entirely different transactions with entirely different companies, possibly months or even years apart in time. It is equally likely they have your credit card number, social security number, address, credit rating, bank account number, and purchase history as well. The company you are doing business with may have no idea where the information came from as it was provided to them through a network of service providers and information brokers.

There are lots of minute bits of information that taken together can uniquely identify, if not you as an individual, at least the browser you use. Cover Your Tracks is a handy tool created by the Electronic Frontiers Foundation that will tell you if you have such a signature and how unique it is. Remember the more unique your signature is the more precisely it identifies you. Unfortunately browsers with no signature are useless on all but the most basic web sites and unusable in on line commerce.

Recently there has been a surge in interest about internet privacy and the most prominent villains are Google (73% of web sties use some form of Google tracking), Facebook, and Amazon. This DuckDuckGo blog article describes Googles latest tool that combines bits of information from any number of different sources to yield a stunningly complete dossier on you and your purchasing habits.

I am not a conspiracy theorist, by any stretch of the imagination, but this issue has reached critical levels. You need to...
  • Inform yourself of the dangers DuckDuckGo's Privacy Blog and EFF's Privacy Issues are good places to start.
  • Eliminate any traces of Google and Google products from your computer and other devices.
  • Switch to a search engine such as DuckDuckGo, Qwant, or Ecosia that does not sell their data.
  • Use a browser like Safari, Brave, or even TOR that has builtin tracking protection, and set the tracking options to their highest practical levels
  • Keep MacOS, iOS, and iPadOS scrupulously up to date
  • Accept Cookies only from sites you visit.
  • In addition to Safari's builtin tracking protection, use a good third party adblocker and anti-tracking app such as AdBlock Pro and Wipr.
  • avoid social media sites and if you must use them be sure your privacy and security settings are at the highest possible level
  • Allways remain aware and cautious. Remember, once your data is out there, there is no way of calling it back other than possibly going into Witness Protection. (And that is closer to fact than either of us would like to believe.)


MacBook Pro - M2, Ventura 13.6
Safari Tech Prev 17.0
Safari 16.6
Firefox 116.0.2
iPhone 7 Version 15.8




Re: Freaked out!
jchuzi #58921 06/17/21 08:31 PM
Joined: Sep 2009
Likes: 3
OP Offline

Joined: Sep 2009
Likes: 3
I will do that. Thanks. Wow, I just clicked on Safari Extensions and nothing happened. It just stayed on the page I was on (FTM). I will look it up another way.



Originally Posted by jchuzi
That extension may very well have been the culprit. Instead of using that one, go to Safari > Safari Extensions and search for Coupons. You'll get a lot of hits. I have not used any of them so I can't offer a recommendation.

Last edited by plantsower; 06/17/21 08:34 PM.

MacBook Pro - M2, Ventura 13.6
Safari Tech Prev 17.0
Safari 16.6
Firefox 116.0.2
iPhone 7 Version 15.8




Re: Freaked out!
jchuzi #58923 06/17/21 08:40 PM
Joined: Sep 2009
Likes: 3
OP Offline

Joined: Sep 2009
Likes: 3
I looked at the app store coupon extensions and lots of them have access to my info. The culprit I'm talking about is on there, too.

Originally Posted by jchuzi
That extension may very well have been the culprit. Instead of using that one, go to Safari > Safari Extensions and search for Coupons. You'll get a lot of hits. I have not used any of them so I can't offer a recommendation.


MacBook Pro - M2, Ventura 13.6
Safari Tech Prev 17.0
Safari 16.6
Firefox 116.0.2
iPhone 7 Version 15.8




Re: Freaked out!
plantsower #58925 06/17/21 09:06 PM
Joined: Aug 2009
Likes: 16
Moderator
Offline
Moderator

Joined: Aug 2009
Likes: 16
Originally Posted by plantsower
I try not to use Google and have my browser default set at DuckDuckGo anyway, though I don't know that I trust it.

Which Browsers don't have signatures?
All usable browsers have signatures. TOR can be shut down to the point it has virtually no identifiable signature, but then it can only be used for the most basic websites and is useless otherwise. It is most useful for military and other top security agencies. My Safari has a highly unique signature, meaning I am readily identifiable, Brave on the other hand has a highly randomized signature that makes it very difficult, but not impossible to uniquely identify.

As far as I know DuckDuckGo is reliable and sticks to their policy of not selling user data. It is about as reliable as you can get.

Originally Posted by plantsower
How do I avoid Google if places like Amazon rely on it?
The short answer is, you can't. But you can make them work harder for it.

Originally Posted by plantsower
I do get a report off my mac of those websites trying to get info.
What Safari is reporting are requests that it has BLOCKED so that is not getting out.

Originally Posted by plantsower
I already have my prefs set to only get cookies from sites I visit.
GOOD

Originally Posted by plantsower
I mostly use Safari and Tor but Tor sometimes won't let me in because I look suspicious or something like that.
To be completely secure TOR shuts down everything but basic HTML and most sites use Javascript and other technologies extensively so TOR cannot eve render the site.

Originally Posted by plantsower
I already have Adblock Plus and others that don't have permission to see personal info. I am now d/ling Adblock Pro for Safari. Thanks. Unfortunately, I do have other extensions that have access to my credit card info, etc. These are extensions that I want to keep. I guess I need to make a decision. One of them is that extension I use for coupons. Darn!
That is what I say although perhaps I use language that is a bit "saltier". (I did spend several years in the military 😜)

Run EFF's Cover Your Tracks then read the detail and it will tell you specifically what elements go into your signature and you will begin to understand why it is so difficult to hide. Even the fonts installed on your computer are a give-away.


If we knew what it was we were doing, it wouldn't be called research, would it?

— Albert Einstein
Re: Freaked out!
joemikeb #58929 06/18/21 04:06 AM
Joined: Sep 2009
Likes: 3
OP Offline

Joined: Sep 2009
Likes: 3
I just ran cover your tracks but don't completely understand the info I got.


Originally Posted by joemikeb
Originally Posted by plantsower
I try not to use Google and have my browser default set at DuckDuckGo anyway, though I don't know that I trust it.

Which Browsers don't have signatures?
All usable browsers have signatures. TOR can be shut down to the point it has virtually no identifiable signature, but then it can only be used for the most basic websites and is useless otherwise. It is most useful for military and other top security agencies. My Safari has a highly unique signature, meaning I am readily identifiable, Brave on the other hand has a highly randomized signature that makes it very difficult, but not impossible to uniquely identify.

As far as I know DuckDuckGo is reliable and sticks to their policy of not selling user data. It is about as reliable as you can get.

Originally Posted by plantsower
How do I avoid Google if places like Amazon rely on it?
The short answer is, you can't. But you can make them work harder for it.

Originally Posted by plantsower
I do get a report off my mac of those websites trying to get info.
What Safari is reporting are requests that it has BLOCKED so that is not getting out.

Originally Posted by plantsower
I already have my prefs set to only get cookies from sites I visit.
GOOD

Originally Posted by plantsower
I mostly use Safari and Tor but Tor sometimes won't let me in because I look suspicious or something like that.
To be completely secure TOR shuts down everything but basic HTML and most sites use Javascript and other technologies extensively so TOR cannot eve render the site.

Originally Posted by plantsower
I already have Adblock Plus and others that don't have permission to see personal info. I am now d/ling Adblock Pro for Safari. Thanks. Unfortunately, I do have other extensions that have access to my credit card info, etc. These are extensions that I want to keep. I guess I need to make a decision. One of them is that extension I use for coupons. Darn!
That is what I say although perhaps I use language that is a bit "saltier". (I did spend several years in the military 😜)

Run EFF's Cover Your Tracks then read the detail and it will tell you specifically what elements go into your signature and you will begin to understand why it is so difficult to hide. Even the fonts installed on your computer are a give-away.


MacBook Pro - M2, Ventura 13.6
Safari Tech Prev 17.0
Safari 16.6
Firefox 116.0.2
iPhone 7 Version 15.8




Re: Freaked out!
plantsower #58930 06/18/21 04:12 AM
Joined: Sep 2009
Likes: 3
OP Offline

Joined: Sep 2009
Likes: 3
I just ran Safari, Firefox and TOR and Firefox had the best protection! I thought it would be TOR. Or maybe TOR just hides my IP like a VPN. I'm not sure.



Originally Posted by plantsower
I just ran cover your tracks but don't completely understand the info I got.


Originally Posted by joemikeb
Originally Posted by plantsower
I try not to use Google and have my browser default set at DuckDuckGo anyway, though I don't know that I trust it.

Which Browsers don't have signatures?
All usable browsers have signatures. TOR can be shut down to the point it has virtually no identifiable signature, but then it can only be used for the most basic websites and is useless otherwise. It is most useful for military and other top security agencies. My Safari has a highly unique signature, meaning I am readily identifiable, Brave on the other hand has a highly randomized signature that makes it very difficult, but not impossible to uniquely identify.

As far as I know DuckDuckGo is reliable and sticks to their policy of not selling user data. It is about as reliable as you can get.

Originally Posted by plantsower
How do I avoid Google if places like Amazon rely on it?
The short answer is, you can't. But you can make them work harder for it.

Originally Posted by plantsower
I do get a report off my mac of those websites trying to get info.
What Safari is reporting are requests that it has BLOCKED so that is not getting out.

Originally Posted by plantsower
I already have my prefs set to only get cookies from sites I visit.
GOOD

Originally Posted by plantsower
I mostly use Safari and Tor but Tor sometimes won't let me in because I look suspicious or something like that.
To be completely secure TOR shuts down everything but basic HTML and most sites use Javascript and other technologies extensively so TOR cannot eve render the site.

Originally Posted by plantsower
I already have Adblock Plus and others that don't have permission to see personal info. I am now d/ling Adblock Pro for Safari. Thanks. Unfortunately, I do have other extensions that have access to my credit card info, etc. These are extensions that I want to keep. I guess I need to make a decision. One of them is that extension I use for coupons. Darn!
That is what I say although perhaps I use language that is a bit "saltier". (I did spend several years in the military 😜)

Run EFF's Cover Your Tracks then read the detail and it will tell you specifically what elements go into your signature and you will begin to understand why it is so difficult to hide. Even the fonts installed on your computer are a give-away.


MacBook Pro - M2, Ventura 13.6
Safari Tech Prev 17.0
Safari 16.6
Firefox 116.0.2
iPhone 7 Version 15.8




Re: Freaked out!
plantsower #58932 06/18/21 02:21 PM
Joined: Aug 2009
Likes: 16
Moderator
Offline
Moderator

Joined: Aug 2009
Likes: 16
Originally Posted by plantsower
I just ran Safari, Firefox and TOR and Firefox had the best protection! I thought it would be TOR. Or maybe TOR just hides my IP like a VPN. I'm not sure.
In TOR what security level ddi you have set? Standard, Safer, or Safest?

Originally Posted by plantsower
I just ran cover your tracks but don't completely understand the info I got.
There are two report options. choose detailed and then be sure to read each of the "LEARN MORE" tabs.

Personally I have come to prefer Brave to TOR as a secure browser. It is more usable as it takes a different approach to signatures. Rather than hiding the signature Brave randomizes it so that it is never the same. The only disadvantage is it is based on Google Chrome and uses Chrome extensions and I have zero trust in those extensions. Like TOR, Brave can use Onion Routing but it is an option.

In the meantime my go to browser is Safari Technology Preview. It isn't the most secure, but it has the best interconnectivity with my other major software tools and there is more to come in macOS 12, iOS 15, and iPadOS 15.

FWIW: I have submitted a suggestion to Apple that they randomize Safari's signature in the same way that Brave does. Who knows, it could happen.

Last edited by joemikeb; 06/18/21 02:46 PM. Reason: FWIW

If we knew what it was we were doing, it wouldn't be called research, would it?

— Albert Einstein
Re: Freaked out!
joemikeb #58933 06/18/21 05:43 PM
Joined: Sep 2009
Likes: 3
OP Offline

Joined: Sep 2009
Likes: 3
Originally Posted by joemikeb
Originally Posted by plantsower
I just ran Safari, Firefox and TOR and Firefox had the best protection! I thought it would be TOR. Or maybe TOR just hides my IP like a VPN. I'm not sure.
In TOR what security level ddi you have set? Standard, Safer, or Safest? Standard

Originally Posted by plantsower
I just ran cover your tracks but don't completely understand the info I got.
There are two report options. choose detailed and then be sure to read each of the "LEARN MORE" tabs.

Personally I have come to prefer Brave to TOR as a secure browser. It is more usable as it takes a different approach to signatures. Rather than hiding the signature Brave randomizes it so that it is never the same. The only disadvantage is it is based on Google Chrome and uses Chrome extensions and I have zero trust in those extensions. Like TOR, Brave can use Onion Routing but it is an option. I tried Brave awhile back and didn't like it at all, but I can't remember why. LOL!

In the meantime my go to browser is Safari Technology Preview. It isn't the most secure, but it has the best interconnectivity with my other major software tools and there is more to come in macOS 12, iOS 15, and iPadOS 15.

I've never heard of anything but a regular Safari browser. Is it less secure than Safari?

FWIW: I have submitted a suggestion to Apple that they randomize Safari's signature in the same way that Brave does. Who knows, it could happen.


I hope so. I think they are proud of their security even though it isn't as good as others. How could they not know that or care?


MacBook Pro - M2, Ventura 13.6
Safari Tech Prev 17.0
Safari 16.6
Firefox 116.0.2
iPhone 7 Version 15.8




Re: Freaked out!
plantsower #58943 06/18/21 10:37 PM
Joined: Aug 2009
Likes: 16
Moderator
Offline
Moderator

Joined: Aug 2009
Likes: 16
Originally Posted by plantsower
Originally Posted by joemikeb
Originally Posted by plantsower
I just ran Safari, Firefox and TOR and Firefox had the best protection! I thought it would be TOR. Or maybe TOR just hides my IP like a VPN. I'm not sure.
In TOR what security level ddi you have set? Standard, Safer, or Safest? Standard
Switch to Safer and the results will change, Switch to Safest and you may not be able to run the test but you will have virtually no signature.

Originally Posted by plantsower
I tried Brave awhile back and didn't like it at all, but I can't remember why. LOL!
I am not crazy about it either, for numerous reasons, including it isn't available on all my devices, but I can tolerate it when I feel the need for additional security.

Originally Posted by plantsower
Originally Posted by joemikeb
In the meantime my go to browser is Safari Technology Preview. It isn't the most secure, but it has the best interconnectivity with my other major software tools and there is more to come in macOS 12, iOS 15, and iPadOS 15.

I've never heard of anything but a regular Safari browser. Is it less secure than Safari?
It is no less secure than Safari and If anything perhaps a bit more secure. Safari Technology Preview is the version Safari where Apple tests out planned new features for Safari. Many (most?) of these features show up in subsequent Safari releases, some go away never to be seen again, still others end up being reworked perhaps to be resurrected in the future.

Originally Posted by plantsower
I hope so. I think they are proud of their security even though it isn't as good as others. How could they not know that or care?
The signature issue has been around for a while, but has risen to prominence fairly recently. Apple has been ahead of the pack on blocking trackers and anti-tracking initiatives. Brave's method of randomizing the signature is one of those genius ideas that arose from the Open Source community just as the bulk of the technology undergirding all Apple's OS variants and applications such as Safari. Big Sur and M1 are more than almost any other company in the world could have pulled off in a single year. Apple has several related internet security initiatives that were announced early this month and public beta testers will have in their hands early next month. The "fix" may already be in the hands of developers.


If we knew what it was we were doing, it wouldn't be called research, would it?

— Albert Einstein
Re: Freaked out!
joemikeb #58945 06/18/21 11:01 PM
Joined: Sep 2009
Likes: 3
OP Offline

Joined: Sep 2009
Likes: 3
Switch to Safer and the results will change, Switch to Safest and you may not be able to run the test but you will have virtually no signature. OK. But I still don't understand why TOR acts like I'm a hacker sometimes and won't let me in.


Safari Technology Preview is the version Safari where Apple tests out planned new features for Safari. Many (most?) of these features show up in subsequent Safari releases, some go away never to be seen again, still others end up being reworked perhaps to be resurrected in the future. I looked at it but it looks like it runs off the cloud. I don't like iCloud so probably won't download it.

The "fix" may already be in the hands of developers. [/quote]

Hope so.


MacBook Pro - M2, Ventura 13.6
Safari Tech Prev 17.0
Safari 16.6
Firefox 116.0.2
iPhone 7 Version 15.8




Re: Freaked out!
plantsower #58949 06/19/21 04:12 PM
Joined: Aug 2009
Likes: 16
Moderator
Offline
Moderator

Joined: Aug 2009
Likes: 16
Originally Posted by plantsower
Switch to Safer and the results will change, Switch to Safest and you may not be able to run the test but you will have virtually no signature. OK. But I still don't understand why TOR acts like I'm a hacker sometimes and won't let me in.
Javascript is a major factor in creating identifiable signatures so TOR shuts it off in the higher security settings. Unfortunately javascript is a major component of many, even most, modern web sites and when you disable Javascript your browser is denied the tools needed to make the site usable or in many cases to even be able to open and render the page image. Go to Safari > Preferences > Security and disable Javascript and you won't be able to get into those same websites and you will have significantly reduced the number of identifiable information bits in your signature. That has always been the Achilles heel of TOR's methodology. The developers of Brave have acknowledged that in order to be usable a browser will inevitably reveal information about itself and your computer, ie. a signature. So rather than trying to hide the signature, they randomize it so that it is different each time it is used, thereby making it far more difficult to trace back to the same computer/user. It isn't foolproof, but hopefully makes, the task of tracking more time consuming and costly than it is worth, at least for the time being. But there is enough money involved that marketers are bound to find ways around any scheme or to come up with totally new scenes to replace tracking.


Originally Posted by plantsower
Safari Technology Preview is the version Safari where Apple tests out planned new features for Safari. Many (most?) of these features show up in subsequent Safari releases, some go away never to be seen again, still others end up being reworked perhaps to be resurrected in the future. I looked at it but it looks like it runs off the cloud. I don't like iCloud so probably won't download it.
Safari Technology Preview (STP) no more runs off the cloud[i] than Safari, Brave, TOR, Firefox, Chrome, Opera, Chromium, Vivaldi, or any other web browser. It is just a browser. I started using it when I was having a long forgotten issue with Safari and found the [i]fix was already being tested in STP. Subsequently the fix appeared in a later release of Safari, but I have become accustomed to using "previews of coming attractions" so I have continued using STP. Geneslly the only way to tell which of the two I am using is to look at the Menu Bar.


If we knew what it was we were doing, it wouldn't be called research, would it?

— Albert Einstein
Re: Freaked out!
joemikeb #58951 06/19/21 04:35 PM
Joined: Sep 2009
Likes: 3
OP Offline

Joined: Sep 2009
Likes: 3
Go to Safari > Preferences > Security and disable Javascript and you won't be able to get into those same websites and you will have significantly reduced the number of identifiable information bits in your signature. That has always been the Achilles heel of TOR's methodology. The developers of Brave have acknowledged that in order to be usable a browser will inevitably reveal information about itself and your computer, ie. a signature. So rather than trying to hide the signature, they randomize it so that it is different each time it is used, thereby making it far more difficult to trace back to the same computer/user. It isn't foolproof, but hopefully makes, the task of tracking more time consuming and costly than it is worth, at least for the time being. But there is enough money involved that marketers are bound to find ways around any scheme or to come up with totally new scenes to replace tracking. OK. I see. I turned off Javascript and couldn't even change my text color here.


Safari Technology Preview (STP) no more runs off the cloud[i] than Safari, Brave, TOR, Firefox, Chrome, Opera, Chromium, Vivaldi, or any other web browser. It is just a browser.

This is why I thought that, of course I guess they all work with iCloud.: Safari Technology Preview - Safari - Apple Developer
Search domain developer.apple.comhttps://developer.apple.com/safari/technology-preview/
Safari Technology Preview is a standalone app that works side-by-side with the current version of Safari, so you can continue to use and reference the current release. Surf seamlessly with iCloud. Safari Technology Preview works with iCloud, so you can access your latest Safari Favorites, bookmarks, and Reading List. Keep current.
I started using it when I was having a long forgotten issue with Safari and found the [i]fix
was already being tested in STP. Subsequently the fix appeared in a later release of Safari, but I have become accustomed to using "previews of coming attractions" so I have continued using STP. Geneslly the only way to tell which of the two I am using is to look at the Menu Bar. [/quote]


MacBook Pro - M2, Ventura 13.6
Safari Tech Prev 17.0
Safari 16.6
Firefox 116.0.2
iPhone 7 Version 15.8




Re: Freaked out!
plantsower #58954 06/19/21 05:57 PM
Joined: Aug 2009
Likes: 16
Moderator
Offline
Moderator

Joined: Aug 2009
Likes: 16
Originally Posted by plantsower
This is why I thought that, of course I guess they all work with iCloud.: Safari Technology Preview - Safari - Apple Developer
Search domain developer.apple.comhttps://developer.apple.com/safari/technology-preview/
Safari Technology Preview is a standalone app that works side-by-side with the current version of Safari, so you can continue to use and reference the current release. Surf seamlessly with iCloud. Safari Technology Preview works with iCloud, so you can access your latest Safari Favorites, bookmarks, and Reading List. Keep current.
I can understand the misconception. Perhaps a better way of putting that would be to say Safari Technology Preview uses the same bookmarks, favorites, reading list, and settings files that Safari uses. Those settings can all be synched with iCloud so no matter if you are using Safari Technology Preview on your Mac, or Safari on your Mac, iPhone, or iPad they are all the same. So as I said before, the only way to reliably tell which of the two you are using is to look at the Menu Bar at the top of your display window.


If we knew what it was we were doing, it wouldn't be called research, would it?

— Albert Einstein
Re: Freaked out!
joemikeb #58955 06/19/21 06:52 PM
Joined: Sep 2009
Likes: 3
OP Offline

Joined: Sep 2009
Likes: 3
Thank you for clearing that up!!! smile One more thing, I have 53 gigs left on my 120 gig SSD at the moment, i.e. https://imgur.com/a/wSl3jzF Would downloading Safari Tech take up a lot of space and slow down my Mac?


I can understand the misconception. Perhaps a better way of putting that would be to say Safari Technology Preview uses the same bookmarks, favorites, reading list, and settings files that Safari uses. Those settings can all be synched with iCloud so no matter if you are using Safari Technology Preview on your Mac, or Safari on your Mac, iPhone, or iPad they are all the same. So as I said before, the only way to reliably tell which of the two you are using is to look at the Menu Bar at the top of your display window. [/quote]


MacBook Pro - M2, Ventura 13.6
Safari Tech Prev 17.0
Safari 16.6
Firefox 116.0.2
iPhone 7 Version 15.8




Re: Freaked out!
plantsower #58956 06/19/21 07:41 PM
Joined: Aug 2009
Likes: 16
Moderator
Offline
Moderator

Joined: Aug 2009
Likes: 16
Originally Posted by plantsower
Thank you for clearing that up!!! smile One more thing, I have 53 gigs left on my 120 gig SSD at the moment, i.e. https://imgur.com/a/wSl3jzF Would downloading Safari Tech take up a lot of space and slow down my Mac?
Frankly I was surprised to find Safari Technology Preview takes 313.2 MB compared to Safari's 25.6 MB until I realized Safari utilizes the webkit code that is built into the current MacOS version and used by Mail and a number of other Apple and third party apps as well as Safari. STP on the other hand has to have its own copy of webkit because many changes are actually in webkit and not the user interface and could effect all those other apps as well.

Be that as it may, STP's 313.2 MB would reduce the amount of free storage space on your Mac by a little over one half of one percent (0.59% to be precise). I seriously doubt you would or could ever notice it. If you ever did, it is "sandboxed" and easy to delete — just drag it to the trash.


If we knew what it was we were doing, it wouldn't be called research, would it?

— Albert Einstein
Re: Freaked out!
joemikeb #58957 06/19/21 07:50 PM
Joined: Sep 2009
Likes: 3
OP Offline

Joined: Sep 2009
Likes: 3
Once again, thank you for our precise answers!!



Originally Posted by joemikeb
Originally Posted by plantsower
Thank you for clearing that up!!! smile One more thing, I have 53 gigs left on my 120 gig SSD at the moment, i.e. https://imgur.com/a/wSl3jzF Would downloading Safari Tech take up a lot of space and slow down my Mac?
Frankly I was surprised to find Safari Technology Preview takes 313.2 MB compared to Safari's 25.6 MB until I realized Safari utilizes the webkit code that is built into the current MacOS version and used by Mail and a number of other Apple and third party apps as well as Safari. STP on the other hand has to have its own copy of webkit because many changes are actually in webkit and not the user interface and could effect all those other apps as well.

Be that as it may, STP's 313.2 MB would reduce the amount of free storage space on your Mac by a little over one half of one percent (0.59% to be precise). I seriously doubt you would or could ever notice it. If you ever did, it is "sandboxed" and easy to delete — just drag it to the trash.


MacBook Pro - M2, Ventura 13.6
Safari Tech Prev 17.0
Safari 16.6
Firefox 116.0.2
iPhone 7 Version 15.8




Re: Freaked out!
plantsower #58958 06/19/21 07:55 PM
Joined: Sep 2009
Likes: 3
OP Offline

Joined: Sep 2009
Likes: 3
Oops! It requires 12.0 beta. I still have Catalina and want to keep it that way for awhile.




Originally Posted by plantsower
Once again, thank you for our precise answers!!



Originally Posted by joemikeb
Originally Posted by plantsower
Thank you for clearing that up!!! smile One more thing, I have 53 gigs left on my 120 gig SSD at the moment, i.e. https://imgur.com/a/wSl3jzF Would downloading Safari Tech take up a lot of space and slow down my Mac?
Frankly I was surprised to find Safari Technology Preview takes 313.2 MB compared to Safari's 25.6 MB until I realized Safari utilizes the webkit code that is built into the current MacOS version and used by Mail and a number of other Apple and third party apps as well as Safari. STP on the other hand has to have its own copy of webkit because many changes are actually in webkit and not the user interface and could effect all those other apps as well.

Be that as it may, STP's 313.2 MB would reduce the amount of free storage space on your Mac by a little over one half of one percent (0.59% to be precise). I seriously doubt you would or could ever notice it. If you ever did, it is "sandboxed" and easy to delete — just drag it to the trash.


MacBook Pro - M2, Ventura 13.6
Safari Tech Prev 17.0
Safari 16.6
Firefox 116.0.2
iPhone 7 Version 15.8




Re: Freaked out!
plantsower #58959 06/19/21 09:22 PM
Joined: Aug 2009
Likes: 16
Moderator
Offline
Moderator

Joined: Aug 2009
Likes: 16
Originally Posted by plantsower
Oops! It requires 12.0 beta. I still have Catalina and want to keep it that way for awhile.

Understandably you may be disappointed, but if you think about it planning is already ongoing for macOS 13(?) and the bus of Apple's software development time and energy transitioned to Monterey months ago with less and less left over for Big Sur tweaks and patches, so any development going into Catalina will be driven almost entirely by security exploits if and when they occur. And internally Catalina is very different from Big Sur and Monterey.


If we knew what it was we were doing, it wouldn't be called research, would it?

— Albert Einstein
Re: Freaked out!
joemikeb #58960 06/19/21 09:24 PM
Joined: Sep 2009
Likes: 3
OP Offline

Joined: Sep 2009
Likes: 3
I didn't even know there was a Monterey! I was so proud of myself finally upgrading, but it just never stops!



Originally Posted by joemikeb
Originally Posted by plantsower
Oops! It requires 12.0 beta. I still have Catalina and want to keep it that way for awhile.

Understandably you may be disappointed, but if you think about it planning is already ongoing for macOS 13(?) and the bus of Apple's software development time and energy transitioned to Monterey months ago with less and less left over for Big Sur tweaks and patches, so any development going into Catalina will be driven almost entirely by security exploits if and when they occur. And internally Catalina is very different from Big Sur and Monterey.


MacBook Pro - M2, Ventura 13.6
Safari Tech Prev 17.0
Safari 16.6
Firefox 116.0.2
iPhone 7 Version 15.8




Re: Freaked out!
plantsower #58961 06/20/21 12:30 AM
Joined: Aug 2009
Likes: 15
Online

Joined: Aug 2009
Likes: 15
STP for Catalina can be d/l'ed at Safari Technology Preview > What's new in Safari Technology Preview.


The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire
Re: Freaked out!
artie505 #58962 06/20/21 01:02 AM
Joined: Sep 2009
Likes: 3
OP Offline

Joined: Sep 2009
Likes: 3
Oh wow, thanks. It's d/ling now.

Originally Posted by artie505
STP for Catalina can be d/l'ed at Safari Technology Preview > What's new in Safari Technology Preview.


MacBook Pro - M2, Ventura 13.6
Safari Tech Prev 17.0
Safari 16.6
Firefox 116.0.2
iPhone 7 Version 15.8




Re: Freaked out!
artie505 #58963 06/20/21 01:10 AM
Joined: Sep 2009
Likes: 3
OP Offline

Joined: Sep 2009
Likes: 3
I have Catalina 10.15.7. It requires 11.0 to open it. I looked on the App store but couldn't find a Catalina update. I know you know where I can find one. smile Oh wait, that' Big Sur!


Originally Posted by artie505
STP for Catalina can be d/l'ed at Safari Technology Preview > What's new in Safari Technology Preview.

Last edited by plantsower; 06/20/21 01:16 AM.

MacBook Pro - M2, Ventura 13.6
Safari Tech Prev 17.0
Safari 16.6
Firefox 116.0.2
iPhone 7 Version 15.8




Re: Freaked out!
plantsower #58964 06/20/21 01:56 AM
Joined: Aug 2009
Likes: 15
Online

Joined: Aug 2009
Likes: 15
This d/l on the MacUpdate page to which I linked is for Catalina.

I d/l'ed it, and it launched as expected in my 10.15.7.


The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire
Re: Freaked out!
artie505 #58965 06/20/21 04:09 AM
Joined: Sep 2009
Likes: 3
OP Offline

Joined: Sep 2009
Likes: 3
it says it's for Catalina but after I downloaded it, I got a message saying this update needs macOS version 11.0. I don't know what to tell you.


Originally Posted by artie505
This d/l on the MacUpdate page to which I linked is for Catalina.

I d/l'ed it, and it launched as expected in my 10.15.7.


MacBook Pro - M2, Ventura 13.6
Safari Tech Prev 17.0
Safari 16.6
Firefox 116.0.2
iPhone 7 Version 15.8




Re: Freaked out!
plantsower #58966 06/20/21 04:13 AM
Joined: Sep 2009
Likes: 3
OP Offline

Joined: Sep 2009
Likes: 3
OK, I see what I did. I downloaded from the first download button I saw on the page you gave me which was for 11.0. I just now looked and found it for Catalina a little further down. Crossing my fingers.


Originally Posted by plantsower
it says it's for Catalina but after I downloaded it, I got a message saying this update needs macOS version 11.0. I don't know what to tell you.


Originally Posted by artie505
This d/l on the MacUpdate page to which I linked is for Catalina.

I d/l'ed it, and it launched as expected in my 10.15.7.


MacBook Pro - M2, Ventura 13.6
Safari Tech Prev 17.0
Safari 16.6
Firefox 116.0.2
iPhone 7 Version 15.8




Re: Freaked out!
joemikeb #58968 06/20/21 04:35 AM
Joined: Sep 2009
Likes: 3
OP Offline

Joined: Sep 2009
Likes: 3
I downloaded Safari Technology Preview. It migrated some stuff over like my extensions but not my start page or bookmarks, history, or some other things. How do I get the rest of my info migrated over from my other Safari? I hope it's not complicated. Thanks.



Originally Posted by joemikeb
Originally Posted by plantsower
I just ran Safari, Firefox and TOR and Firefox had the best protection! I thought it would be TOR. Or maybe TOR just hides my IP like a VPN. I'm not sure.
In TOR what security level ddi you have set? Standard, Safer, or Safest?

Originally Posted by plantsower
I just ran cover your tracks but don't completely understand the info I got.
There are two report options. choose detailed and then be sure to read each of the "LEARN MORE" tabs.

Personally I have come to prefer Brave to TOR as a secure browser. It is more usable as it takes a different approach to signatures. Rather than hiding the signature Brave randomizes it so that it is never the same. The only disadvantage is it is based on Google Chrome and uses Chrome extensions and I have zero trust in those extensions. Like TOR, Brave can use Onion Routing but it is an option.

In the meantime my go to browser is Safari Technology Preview. It isn't the most secure, but it has the best interconnectivity with my other major software tools and there is more to come in macOS 12, iOS 15, and iPadOS 15.

FWIW: I have submitted a suggestion to Apple that they randomize Safari's signature in the same way that Brave does. Who knows, it could happen.


MacBook Pro - M2, Ventura 13.6
Safari Tech Prev 17.0
Safari 16.6
Firefox 116.0.2
iPhone 7 Version 15.8




Re: Freaked out!
plantsower #58969 06/20/21 03:42 PM
Joined: Aug 2009
Likes: 16
Moderator
Offline
Moderator

Joined: Aug 2009
Likes: 16
Originally Posted by plantsower
I downloaded Safari Technology Preview. It migrated some stuff over like my extensions but not my start page or bookmarks, history, or some other things. How do I get the rest of my info migrated over from my other Safari? I hope it's not complicated. Thanks.
Mine has always synched completely but that may be because I have iCloud synch enabled. I just spent an hour looking for the location of the Safari start page contents and although I found a lot of start page related files and folders the location of the content has eluded me completely. I will keep looking, but its time for church so I have to go now.


If we knew what it was we were doing, it wouldn't be called research, would it?

— Albert Einstein
Re: Freaked out!
joemikeb #58970 06/20/21 04:35 PM
Joined: Sep 2009
Likes: 3
OP Offline

Joined: Sep 2009
Likes: 3
Thanks, JoeMike. Didn't mean to take an hour out of your life or more. smile But, I guess you are now on a quest. Say Hi to God for me. 💒



Originally Posted by joemikeb
Originally Posted by plantsower
I downloaded Safari Technology Preview. It migrated some stuff over like my extensions but not my start page or bookmarks, history, or some other things. How do I get the rest of my info migrated over from my other Safari? I hope it's not complicated. Thanks.
Mine has always synched completely but that may be because I have iCloud synch enabled. I just spent an hour looking for the location of the Safari start page contents and although I found a lot of start page related files and folders the location of the content has eluded me completely. I will keep looking, but its time for church so I have to go now.


MacBook Pro - M2, Ventura 13.6
Safari Tech Prev 17.0
Safari 16.6
Firefox 116.0.2
iPhone 7 Version 15.8




Page 1 of 2 1 2

Moderated by  alternaut, dianne, MacManiac 

Link Copied to Clipboard
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.4
(Release build 20200307)
Responsive Width:

PHP: 7.4.33 Page Time: 0.050s Queries: 80 (0.035s) Memory: 0.8004 MB (Peak: 1.0424 MB) Data Comp: Zlib Server Time: 2024-03-28 08:27:08 UTC
Valid HTML 5 and Valid CSS