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Re: Boxing
MG2009 #58370 03/16/21 06:12 PM
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Originally Posted by MG2009
Sensibilities?

Living in the USA's closest neighbour to the North, I still am perplexed by the thirst for violence in the psyche of some folks. A family can sit around at mealtime eating their grilled cheese sandwiches and apple pie while watching people get beaten, pounded, kneed, pummelled, and kicked on TV news coverage. Yet, show two men kissing or - clutch my pearls - a bare breast exposed on the same broadcast, and there would be a public outcry of indecency on television. Go figure.

It is my observation that my country's abhorrence with viewing homosexuality or nudity is based in religion, and because of religion many people here will vote against their own self-interests. So beat the crap out of someone on TV or in a movie, but if in so doing you reveal genitals, horrors! Go figure. I guess that's why it is called religion and not rationality. tongue


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Re: Boxing
MG2009 #58373 03/16/21 07:12 PM
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Originally Posted by MG2009
Sensibilities?

Living in the USA's closest neighbour to the North, I still am perplexed by the thirst for violence in the psyche of some folks. A family can sit around at mealtime eating their grilled cheese sandwiches and apple pie while watching people get beaten, pounded, kneed, pummelled, and kicked on TV news coverage. Yet, show two men kissing or - clutch my pearls - a bare breast exposed on the same broadcast, and there would be a public outcry of indecency on television. Go figure.

Disclaimer: This is just how it currently looks to me from this side of the border. This is neither a moral nor ethical position. Just my innate aversion to physical violence. This, naturally, extends to my view on boxing i.e. violence by choice. (I am well aware that you - and others - may not share this view. I don't expect to change your mind; I know I won't change mine. So let's just agree to disagree and leave it at that.)

Respectfully submitted . . .

Funny you say that, given your country's obsession with Ice Hockey. That is definitely a violent sport, but I do find it entertaining, especially when played cleanly. (And of course the best game I have ever seen is the US Hockey Team's HUGE upset over the Soviet Union in the 1980 Olympics. I STILL get goose bumps every time I watch it!).

On this side of the border (besides Ice Hockey and other sports), one of the most violent is of course football, and especially the NFL. As I mentioned above, "Concussion" is a very good movie, and an eye opener. It's based on a true story. Watch it.

Last edited by MartyByrde; 03/16/21 07:14 PM.
Re: Boxing
MartyByrde #58376 03/16/21 10:57 PM
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Re: Hockey


------------


Feel free to apply my POV on "violence as entertainment in sports" to ANY sport in which the participant seeks - either intentionally or consequentially - to punch, hit, kick, pummel, wallop, clobber, beat, strike, or in any other way, INJURE his/her opponent(s).

There are plenty of sports available which are challenging, competitive, and entertaining . . . yet, neither require nor cause any of the aforementioned actions be directed toward another player (or players).

Re: Boxing
MG2009 #58377 03/16/21 11:54 PM
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Originally Posted by MG2009
There are plenty of sports available which are challenging, competitive, and entertaining . . . yet, neither require nor cause any of the aforementioned actions be directed toward another player (or players).
Yes, there are plenty of sports which are “challenging, competitive and entertaining” but, unfortunately, many of those have a downside of injury and death. So, let’s just err on the side of caution and ban every sports activity where there is a history of injury or death, whether by intention or not. These statistics from the Insurance Information Institute provide a good starting point.

I note that, according to a National Ski Areas Association (NSAA) Fact Sheet, during the 10 years ending in 2017, 38 people died skiing or snowboarding per year on average. Gee, more dead every two years than in 93 years of boxing.

Last edited by ryck; 03/16/21 11:57 PM.

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Re: Boxing
ryck #58378 03/17/21 12:08 AM
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Some clarification . . . The "banning" of certain sports is a separate issue from my expressed POV which was specifically regarding the attraction to "violence in sport" - and its ensuing injuries - as entertainment.

Re: Boxing
ryck #58380 03/17/21 12:29 AM
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Originally Posted by ryck
Originally Posted by MG2009
There are plenty of sports available which are challenging, competitive, and entertaining . . . yet, neither require nor cause any of the aforementioned actions be directed toward another player (or players).
Yes, there are plenty of sports which are “challenging, competitive and entertaining” but, unfortunately, many of those have a downside of injury and death. So, let’s just err on the side of caution and ban every sports activity where there is a history of injury or death, whether by intention or not. These statistics from the Insurance Information Institute provide a good starting point.

While good n theory, no way will that ever happen! Sports is HUGE business, whether violent or not. And in North America, banning hockey in Canada (and theUS) and NFL Football in the US would be an economic disaster.

Re: Boxing
MartyByrde #58382 03/17/21 02:03 AM
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Originally Posted by MG2009
Some clarification . . . The "banning" of certain sports is a separate issue……
Originally Posted by MartyByrde
While good n theory, no way will that ever happen!
The following was not meant to be taken literally.
Originally Posted by ryck
So, let’s just err on the side of caution and ban every sports activity where there is a history of injury or death, whether by intention or not.
It was intended as sarcasm (i.e. saying the opposite to make a point). It isn't, in my opinion, okay to ban one sport because people don't care for the way injury may be caused in it but, at the same time, suggest that injury and death are acceptable in others because those are “challenging, competitive and entertaining”.

Last edited by ryck; 03/17/21 02:11 AM.

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Re: Boxing
ryck #58383 03/17/21 02:31 AM
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RE: "It was intended as sarcasm . . . "

------------

wink


I thought so at the time. Until now, I have not chimed in one way or another on the "banning" of selected sports. However, with the introduction of the word, this thread, potentially, could start veering off in that direction, and I don't wish my earlier POV posts to be misinterpreted as to include the subject of banning. (A little pre-emptive action on my part.)

Re: Boxing
MG2009 #58385 03/17/21 02:21 PM
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Originally Posted by MG2009
Until now, I have not chimed in one way or another on the "banning" of selected sports. However, with the introduction of the word, this thread, potentially, could start veering off in that direction, and I don't wish my earlier POV posts to be misinterpreted as to include the subject of banning.
No problem....if nothing else, I am flexible.

In my opinion, it’s wrong to suggest that one sport should disappear due to the way injury may be caused in it but, at the same time, find others acceptable because they are “challenging, competitive and entertaining” - even though the injury and death in them far surpasses the first. It is better to do what many sports have done, including boxing, which is to develop rules and equipment that will make them safer.

Last edited by ryck; 03/17/21 03:02 PM. Reason: Spelling

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Re: Boxing
ryck #58386 03/17/21 05:50 PM
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Originally Posted by ryck
Originally Posted by MG2009
Until now, I have not chimed in one way or another on the "banning" of selected sports. However, with the introduction of the word, this thread, potentially, could start veering off in that direction, and I don't wish my earlier POV posts to be misinterpreted as to include the subject of banning.
No problem....if nothing else, I am flexible.

In my opinion, it’s wrong to suggest that one sport should disappear due to the way injury may be caused in it but, at the same time, find others acceptable because they are “challenging, competitive and entertaining” - even though the injury and death in them far surpasses the first. It is better to do what many sports have done, including boxing, which is to develop rules and equipment that will make them safer.

While it is fine for organizations to develop rules and equipment to make their respective sport safer, that seems to be a constantly moving target with the NHL and NFL (and to some degree, college football). I'm not sure how much more could be done before each of those sports becomes just about 100% "safe", especially with all the revenue generated by them. Their popularity is certainly overwhelming.

Re: Boxing
MartyByrde #58387 03/17/21 06:39 PM
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Originally Posted by MartyByrde
I'm not sure how much more could be done before each of those sports becomes just about 100% "safe", especially with all the revenue generated by them. Their popularity is certainly overwhelming.
That sounds like you mean that "safety" is judged by its effect on revenue.

The very unhappy for sports bottom line is that until they begin banning guys - regardless of their star status - for extreme play, and perhaps even encourage the cops to arrest a few, sports will continue to be gladiatorial.


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Re: Boxing
artie505 #58388 03/17/21 07:11 PM
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Originally Posted by artie505
Originally Posted by MartyByrde
I'm not sure how much more could be done before each of those sports becomes just about 100% "safe", especially with all the revenue generated by them. Their popularity is certainly overwhelming.
That sounds like you mean that "safety" is judged by its effect on revenue

Wow! How "new" is that? Not much at all, and if one watches the excellent movie "Concussion", one will clearly see that.

Re: Boxing
artie505 #58557 04/26/21 11:49 AM
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The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire
Re: Boxing
artie505 #58558 04/26/21 01:29 PM
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Ha! In 20 years, will this be the golden age of boxing?


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Re: Boxing
freelance #58560 04/26/21 03:37 PM
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Originally Posted by freelance
Ha! In 20 years, will this be the golden age of boxing?
I don't think so because it has nothing to do with boxing. It's just a couple of greedy hucksters making a buck by putting on a sordid sideshow spectacle.


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Re: Boxing
freelance #58562 04/26/21 04:51 PM
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Originally Posted by freelance
Ha! In 20 years, will this be the golden age of boxing?
Dunno about that, but it will certainly be looked back upon as the golden age of charlatans of all colors, stripes, and even plaids.

Credibility is now based on your ability to make noise and make it heard, rather than, as it should be, on your ability.


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Re: Boxing
ryck #58563 04/26/21 05:21 PM
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Originally Posted by ryck
Originally Posted by freelance
Ha! In 20 years, will this be the golden age of boxing?
I don't think so because it has nothing to do with boxing. It's just a couple of greedy hucksters making a buck by putting on a sordid sideshow spectacle.
Were it unique to boxing, I'd agree with you, albeit with crossed fingers, but it's more like another pandemic that's spread across the entire Internet and, hence, the world.

"Influencers" with NO credentials are spreading their version of whatever: think Trump, think COVID deniers, think anti-vaxxers, think Jake Paul.

But don't think too much or you're liable to make yourself ill. frown


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Re: Boxing
artie505 #58564 04/26/21 06:18 PM
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I've taken the past year off thinking. Unfortunately, I can't seem to shake cynicism and sarcasm. grin


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Re: Boxing
artie505 #58567 04/27/21 02:05 PM
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Originally Posted by artie505
"Influencers" with NO credentials are spreading their version of whatever: think Trump, think COVID deniers, think anti-vaxxers, think Jake Paul.(
Absolutely true. And they are only able to be successful because thinking has pretty much disappeared from a large part of the general population.


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Re: Boxing
ryck #58573 04/27/21 11:49 PM
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Originally Posted by ryck
Originally Posted by artie505
"Influencers" with NO credentials are spreading their version of whatever: think Trump, think COVID deniers, think anti-vaxxers, think Jake Paul.(
Absolutely true. And they are only able to be successful because thinking has pretty much disappeared from a large part of the general population.

I'm a non-thinking, gen pop sort of guy, so why have I never heard of Jake Paul until now? And why is someone trying to inject this litter into my brain against my will? I might have to punch someone in the nose, as this is a boxing thread.


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Re: Boxing
freelance #58589 04/29/21 11:29 AM
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Originally Posted by freelance
I'm a non-thinking, gen pop sort of guy, so why have I never heard of Jake Paul until now? And why is someone trying to inject this litter into my brain against my will? I might have to punch someone in the nose, as this is a boxing thread.
You've apparently managed to either avoid frequenting websites that pop up links to bizarre characters like Jake Paul or to control yourself and not click on them.

Since this is a boxing thread, I thought the author's perspective on the state of the sport, particularly since he's a retired boxer, is pertinent.

In case you haven't been drawn to do any research: Jake Paul is a YouTube "star" whose professional resume lists three bouts with nobody, nobody, and nobody else, all of whom he's beaten. He offered Conor McGregor $50 million to get into the ring with him, was turned down, and, I believe, is now trying to drum up a match with any other big name MMA guy.

Jake's older brother Logan, also a YouTube "star," has fought - and lost - one professional (against another YouTube "star") bout, and his next one (pay/view) is with Floyd Mayweather. (Floyd must weigh in at under 160#, and Paul must weigh under 190#.)

Floyd's reason for fighting is "to bring more eyes to the sport" (He'd certainly never do it just for the money. tongue ), but I doubt that anybody who'd pay to see that sort of charade would have the least interest in watching a fight between two two legitimate boxers.

So much for the state of the sport.


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Re: Boxing
artie505 #58606 04/30/21 06:33 PM
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Originally Posted by artie505
You've apparently managed to either avoid frequenting websites that pop up links to bizarre characters like Jake Paul or to control yourself and not click on them.

I try very hard to resist celebrity click bait, although my cursor has been known to hover for too long over a George Clooney link...

I read that when kids are asked what they want to be when they grow up, a current common answer is "I want to be a celebrity". I'm guessing Jake Paul is one of those kids and YouTube enabled him. Celebrity boxing is not boxing.

I liked boxing after the Marquess of Queensbury Rules and before there were four sanctioning bodies to muddy the waters. Back in the good ole days when you could switch on the black and white telly and watch a championship bout for free. Mind, I had to rely on Dad telling me what was going on.


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Re: Boxing
freelance #58611 05/01/21 01:15 PM
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Originally Posted by freelance
Celebrity boxing is not boxing.
Hear, hear!

But there's enough money in it these days to threaten the integrity of the sport. frown

Not that every YouTube and Instagram celebrity is undeserving of hir success, but qualifications have, in all too many instances, given way to making a spectacle of yourself as the best ticket to that success.

But, of course, the flip side of that is that YouTube and Instagram have enabled many people with absolutely no qualifications, and who'd have otherwise starved, to either make a lot of money or hook up with a basketball player.

Originally Posted by freelance
Back in the good ole days when you could switch on the black and white telly and watch a championship bout for free.
The Friday night fights brought to you by Gillette Blue Blades "...for the cleanest, closest shave of all."


The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire
Re: Boxing
artie505 #58612 05/01/21 01:34 PM
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Originally Posted by artie505
The Friday night fights brought to you by Gillette Blue Blades "...for the cleanest, closest shave of all."

You know what? I've been using Gillette blades since I could shave.


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Re: Boxing
freelance #58613 05/01/21 01:59 PM
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I never considered my father to be wise, but he demonstrated great wisdom when he bought me an electric shaver rather than try to teach me how to shave with a blade.

It was ancient history that any time anyone gave me anything with an edge, I cut myself, and that is one lesson of history that was actually learned.


The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire
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