Big Sir or Not??
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Joined: Sep 2009
Likes: 3
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OP
Joined: Sep 2009
Likes: 3 |
The last time I talked about downloading Big Sir there were positives and negatives about it. I know some of you see all the positives and recommend the d/l. I am wondering if I should still wait until more bugs are worked out? I hate bugs! 🕷🦟
Thanks.
MacBook Pro - M2, Ventura 13.6 Safari Tech Prev 17.0 Safari 16.6 Firefox 116.0.2 iPhone 7 Version 15.8
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Re: Big Sir or Not??
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Joined: Aug 2009
Likes: 15
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Joined: Aug 2009
Likes: 15 |
I love it! And coming from a Californian, no less. (Who have you got in mind, Rita?) As for Big S Ur, however, the most notable thing about it in my eyes is that it doesn't play nice with my MacBook Pro's battery, which doesn't deliver as much of a charge as it did in Catalina and takes too long to charge after it's been run down. The situation improved in 11.2, but has still got a ways to go. (It's apparently a universal thing.) In a different vein, Big Sur's GUI is significantly unlike Catalina's, so much so that I can see some people hating it. It's actually kinda jarring until you finally get used to it, and it seems like I'm still stumbling on new aspects of it, even after 3 months. Bottom line for me is that I've found nothing about Big Sur that makes it a compelling upgrade for me. I'd be no less happy, perhaps even happier, were I still in Catalina. So far, I'd say that the best reason I can think of to upgrade is to stay current, because, as joemike is going to say in the next post, the learning curve is NOT going to get easier as time goes by.
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.
In Memory of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire
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Re: Big Sir or Not??
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Joined: Aug 2009
Likes: 16
Moderator
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Moderator
Joined: Aug 2009
Likes: 16 |
I presume that by now you know my predilection for computing on the bleeding edge. So keep that in mind as you read this.
At this point, any significant issues remaining in Big Sur are almost exclusively confined to M1 Macs and will not effect your Mac with an Intel processor. That is not to say that because macOS 11 (Big Sur) is the biggest change to the Apple eco-system since OS X, combined with the necessity of being compatible with both Intel and Apple silicon has caused some utility developers to be slow getting their product to market, because that is true. But, most third party apps were updated within weeks, if not days, of the release of macOS 11. So for the average user, such as yourself, none of that is likely to effect you or your day-to-day use of your Mac. Remember this, the "voices" that are heard on forums such as FTM are primarily those who are having problems and represent only a tiny fraction of the users and in spite of that there have been multiple reports on FTM of Big Sur installs and upgrades with no problems. I would say go for it, the learning curve isn't going to get any shallower.
If we knew what it was we were doing, it wouldn't be called research, would it?
— Albert Einstein
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Re: Big Sir or Not??
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Joined: Sep 2009
Likes: 3
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OP
Joined: Sep 2009
Likes: 3 |
Artie warned me about your response, but then, of course, I knew what it would be. LOL! Thanks for your input. I will take it under advisement. I presume that by now you know my predilection for computing on the bleeding edge. So keep that in mind as you read this.
At this point, any significant issues remaining in Big Sur are almost exclusively confined to M1 Macs and will not effect your Mac with an Intel processor. That is not to say that because macOS 11 (Big Sur) is the biggest change to the Apple eco-system since OS X, combined with the necessity of being compatible with both Intel and Apple silicon has caused some utility developers to be slow getting their product to market, because that is true. But, most third party apps were updated within weeks, if not days, of the release of macOS 11. So for the average user, such as yourself, none of that is likely to effect you or your day-to-day use of your Mac. Remember this, the "voices" that are heard on forums such as FTM are primarily those who are having problems and represent only a tiny fraction of the users and in spite of that there have been multiple reports on FTM of Big Sur installs and upgrades with no problems. I would say go for it, the learning curve isn't going to get any shallower.
MacBook Pro - M2, Ventura 13.6 Safari Tech Prev 17.0 Safari 16.6 Firefox 116.0.2 iPhone 7 Version 15.8
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Re: Big Sir or Not??
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Joined: Sep 2009
Likes: 3
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OP
Joined: Sep 2009
Likes: 3 |
You already know who it is. Hee hee. As you know, I'm not big on change, and the move from Mojave to Catalina was not the big deal I thought it was going to be. The only thing different for me is that not all videos will download as quickly as before and I have more websites that Safari can't load, so I go to Firefox as I did before. I know there is more security, but nothing pops up about it for me to click on. Can you tell me the aspects you don't like? Maybe they won't be relevant to me and then I may consider going to Big Sur sooner rather than later. As far as the battery, I leave it plugged in for the most part so that doesn't bother me much. Thank you. I love it! And coming from a Californian, no less. (Who have you got in mind, Rita?) As for Big S Ur, however, the most notable thing about it in my eyes is that it doesn't play nice with my MacBook Pro's battery, which doesn't deliver as much of a charge as it did in Catalina and takes too long to charge after it's been run down. The situation improved in 11.2, but has still got a ways to go. (It's apparently a universal thing.) In a different vein, Big Sur's GUI is significantly unlike Catalina's, so much so that I can see some people hating it. It's actually kinda jarring until you finally get used to it, and it seems like I'm still stumbling on new aspects of it, even after 3 months. Bottom line for me is that I've found nothing about Big Sur that makes it a compelling upgrade for me. I'd be no less happy, perhaps even happier, were I still in Catalina. So far, I'd say that the best reason I can think of to upgrade is to stay current, because, as joemike is going to say in the next post, the learning curve is NOT going to get easier as time goes by.
MacBook Pro - M2, Ventura 13.6 Safari Tech Prev 17.0 Safari 16.6 Firefox 116.0.2 iPhone 7 Version 15.8
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Re: Big Sir or Not??
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Joined: Aug 2009
Likes: 7
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Joined: Aug 2009
Likes: 7 |
For me, the only downside was that my Epson print driver became Airprint, which is Apple's take on what I want (and I don't). I had to reset the printing system, download the driver from Epson, and reinstall it. That happened not only when I upgraded from Catalina to Big Sur but also when I updated from 11.1 to 11.2. and again when I installed the 11.2.1 supplemental update. The procedure only took a few minutes but it is annoying to have Apple dictate which driver I wanted. The icons in Safari look different, the application icons look different, and the fonts look different. I'm used to this now, so it's not a big deal. On the plus side, some wonky behavior in Mail seems to have been fixed with Big Sur. Hopefully, you'll like it and not have to call it Bug Sur!
Jon
macOS 11.7.10, iMac Retina 5K 27-inch, late 2014, 3.5 GHz Intel Core i5, 1 TB fusion drive, 16 GB RAM, Epson SureColor P600, Photoshop CC, Lightroom CC, MS Office 365
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Re: Big Sir or Not??
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Joined: Sep 2009
Likes: 3
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OP
Joined: Sep 2009
Likes: 3 |
Bug Sir! That made me laugh. Thanks for your input. I have a lot to consider since I'm a scaredy cat about upgrades. For me, the only downside was that my Epson print driver became Airprint, which is Apple's take on what I want (and I don't). I had to reset the printing system, download the driver from Epson, and reinstall it. That happened not only when I upgraded from Catalina to Big Sur but also when I updated from 11.1 to 11.2. and again when I installed the 11.2.1 supplemental update. The procedure only took a few minutes but it is annoying to have Apple dictate which driver I wanted. The icons in Safari look different, the application icons look different, and the fonts look different. I'm used to this now, so it's not a big deal. On the plus side, some wonky behavior in Mail seems to have been fixed with Big Sur. Hopefully, you'll like it and not have to call it Bug Sur!
MacBook Pro - M2, Ventura 13.6 Safari Tech Prev 17.0 Safari 16.6 Firefox 116.0.2 iPhone 7 Version 15.8
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Re: Big Sir or Not??
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Joined: Aug 2009
Likes: 7
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Joined: Aug 2009
Likes: 7 |
One more thing: See this thread about a bug in Safari. I intend to file feedback to Apple (not the same as a bug report, which I have already done). That might get some action. The bug is not a deal-breaker but it is a minor (albeit very minor) annoyance.
Jon
macOS 11.7.10, iMac Retina 5K 27-inch, late 2014, 3.5 GHz Intel Core i5, 1 TB fusion drive, 16 GB RAM, Epson SureColor P600, Photoshop CC, Lightroom CC, MS Office 365
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Re: Big Sir or Not??
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Joined: Sep 2009
Likes: 3
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OP
Joined: Sep 2009
Likes: 3 |
Thanks for the heads up. That sounds very annoying. One more thing: See this thread about a bug in Safari. I intend to file feedback to Apple (not the same as a bug report, which I have already done). That might get some action. The bug is not a deal-breaker but it is a minor (albeit very minor) annoyance.
MacBook Pro - M2, Ventura 13.6 Safari Tech Prev 17.0 Safari 16.6 Firefox 116.0.2 iPhone 7 Version 15.8
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Re: Big Sir or Not??
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Joined: Aug 2009
Likes: 7
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Joined: Aug 2009
Likes: 7 |
At the risk of sounding like Steve Jobs, there's one more thing: The native contrast in Big Sur was too little for my eyes, so I increased it in System Preferences > Accessibility > Display. That solved the issue.
Jon
macOS 11.7.10, iMac Retina 5K 27-inch, late 2014, 3.5 GHz Intel Core i5, 1 TB fusion drive, 16 GB RAM, Epson SureColor P600, Photoshop CC, Lightroom CC, MS Office 365
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Re: Big Sir or Not??
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Joined: Oct 2020
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For me, V11.2 has been working fine on my "test" external Samsung SSD. In fact, it seems faster than V11.1. But the one show stopper right now is the issue of not being able to create an eDrive with the latest version of Tech Tool Pro, V13.0.2. Also, V11.2 of Big Sur did cause some other issues which seem to have been corrected in the V11.3 beta. I'm hoping those corrected issues will resolve the eDrive issue with TTPro.
The only other bummer is that there is still no Big Sur version of SuperDuper!. I keep hoping that while I wait for V11.3 of Big Sur to be released, a version of SuperDuper! will be released. But that could be wishful thinking. Fortunately, both of my Macs are Intel-based, and I can use the latest version of Carbon Copy Cloner once I make the move to V11.3.
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Re: Big Sir or Not??
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Joined: Aug 2009
Likes: 7
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Joined: Aug 2009
Likes: 7 |
Also, V11.2 of Big Sur did cause some other issues which seem to have been corrected in the V11.3 beta. I'm hoping those corrected issues will resolve the eDrive issue with TTPro. Can you be specific about those issues?
Jon
macOS 11.7.10, iMac Retina 5K 27-inch, late 2014, 3.5 GHz Intel Core i5, 1 TB fusion drive, 16 GB RAM, Epson SureColor P600, Photoshop CC, Lightroom CC, MS Office 365
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Re: Big Sir or Not??
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Joined: Aug 2009
Likes: 15
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Joined: Aug 2009
Likes: 15 |
As you know, I'm not big on change, and the move from Mojave to Catalina was not the big deal I thought it was going to be.... The only thing different for me is that not all videos will download as quickly as before and I have more websites that Safari can't load, so I go to Firefox as I did before. I know there is more security, but nothing pops up about it for me to click on.
Can you tell me the aspects you don't like? Maybe they won't be relevant to me and then I may consider going to Big Sur sooner rather than later. As far as the battery, I leave it plugged in for the most part so that doesn't bother me much. Since battery life isn't an issue, there's nothing I can point to in Big Sur as a reason to not upgrade...only annoyances that you'll probably get used to (as I have). In favor of upgrading, I'll wonder if maybe Safari 14 will cure your Safari 13 problems, although I still don't understand why you've got any problems at all with Safari failing to load websites. (With which new websites are you running into issues, and do they return any feedback?) All told, I think an updated Safari is a good reason for you to make the move, but I'll suggest that you wait for 11.3 at the least.
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.
In Memory of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire
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Re: Big Sir or Not??
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Joined: Sep 2009
Likes: 3
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OP
Joined: Sep 2009
Likes: 3 |
Wow, I didn't really understand the "Steve." At the risk of sounding like Steve Jobs, there's one more thing: The native contrast in Big Sur was too little for my eyes, so I increased it in System Preferences > Accessibility > Display. That solved the issue.
MacBook Pro - M2, Ventura 13.6 Safari Tech Prev 17.0 Safari 16.6 Firefox 116.0.2 iPhone 7 Version 15.8
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Re: Big Sir or Not??
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Joined: Sep 2009
Likes: 3
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OP
Joined: Sep 2009
Likes: 3 |
Wow, that's a bummer about SuperDuper as that is the program I use. I really don't like CCC. Good to know. Thanks. For me, V11.2 has been working fine on my "test" external Samsung SSD. In fact, it seems faster than V11.1. But the one show stopper right now is the issue of not being able to create an eDrive with the latest version of Tech Tool Pro, V13.0.2. Also, V11.2 of Big Sur did cause some other issues which seem to have been corrected in the V11.3 beta. I'm hoping those corrected issues will resolve the eDrive issue with TTPro.
The only other bummer is that there is still no Big Sur version of SuperDuper!. I keep hoping that while I wait for V11.3 of Big Sur to be released, a version of SuperDuper! will be released. But that could be wishful thinking. Fortunately, both of my Macs are Intel-based, and I can use the latest version of Carbon Copy Cloner once I make the move to V11.3.
MacBook Pro - M2, Ventura 13.6 Safari Tech Prev 17.0 Safari 16.6 Firefox 116.0.2 iPhone 7 Version 15.8
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Re: Big Sir or Not??
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Joined: Sep 2009
Likes: 3
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OP
Joined: Sep 2009
Likes: 3 |
Well you still didn't tell me about what you had to get used to besides the battery issue. That's what I wanted to know. And I'll take you advice and wait until at least 11.3. As far as the websites not loading I will have to wait until it happens again. I can't remember which ones they were. It is just the usual error message saying Safari can't load the website, blah, blah, blah. As you know, I'm not big on change, and the move from Mojave to Catalina was not the big deal I thought it was going to be.... The only thing different for me is that not all videos will download as quickly as before and I have more websites that Safari can't load, so I go to Firefox as I did before. I know there is more security, but nothing pops up about it for me to click on.
Can you tell me the aspects you don't like? Maybe they won't be relevant to me and then I may consider going to Big Sur sooner rather than later. As far as the battery, I leave it plugged in for the most part so that doesn't bother me much. Since battery life isn't an issue, there's nothing I can point to in Big Sur as a reason to not upgrade...only annoyances that you'll probably get used to (as I have). In favor of upgrading, I'll wonder if maybe Safari 14 will cure your Safari 13 problems, although I still don't understand why you've got any problems at all with Safari failing to load websites. (With which new websites are you running into issues, and do they return any feedback?) All told, I think an updated Safari is a good reason for you to make the move, but I'll suggest that you wait for 11.3 at the least.
MacBook Pro - M2, Ventura 13.6 Safari Tech Prev 17.0 Safari 16.6 Firefox 116.0.2 iPhone 7 Version 15.8
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Re: Big Sir or Not??
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Joined: Aug 2009
Likes: 15
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Joined: Aug 2009
Likes: 15 |
Well you still didn't tell me about what you had to get used to besides the battery issue. Honest truth is I don't even remember most of what bothered me. I just figured it out and got past it. I had the same contrast issue as Jon, and after some playing around I was able to satisfy my eyes. I've got some font size issues that I can't get around. I hate that opening a new Text Edit window while I've already got one open no longer generates a new free-standing window. As you can see, nothing critical. (PS: Next time you run into one of your recalcitrant websites, please post a screenshot of the Safari pop-up.)
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.
In Memory of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire
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Re: Big Sir or Not??
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Joined: Aug 2009
Likes: 7
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Joined: Aug 2009
Likes: 7 |
Wow, I didn't really understand the "Steve." At the risk of sounding like Steve Jobs, there's one more thing: The native contrast in Big Sur was too little for my eyes, so I increased it in System Preferences > Accessibility > Display. That solved the issue. It was customary for Jobs to wait until the last moment to announce a BIG THING. He characteristically pretended to "remember" it by saying "Oh, there's one more thing" and then come out with what everyone had been waiting for.
Jon
macOS 11.7.10, iMac Retina 5K 27-inch, late 2014, 3.5 GHz Intel Core i5, 1 TB fusion drive, 16 GB RAM, Epson SureColor P600, Photoshop CC, Lightroom CC, MS Office 365
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Re: Big Sir or Not??
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Joined: Sep 2009
Likes: 3
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OP
Joined: Sep 2009
Likes: 3 |
I will. Thanks.
(PS: Next time you run into one of your recalcitrant websites, please post a screenshot of the Safari pop-up.) [/quote]
MacBook Pro - M2, Ventura 13.6 Safari Tech Prev 17.0 Safari 16.6 Firefox 116.0.2 iPhone 7 Version 15.8
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Re: Big Sir or Not??
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Joined: Sep 2009
Likes: 3
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OP
Joined: Sep 2009
Likes: 3 |
I miss Jobs. I guess he wasn't easy to work for/with, but things seemed to be better then for the customers.
He characteristically pretended to "remember" it by saying "Oh, there's one more thing" and then come out with what everyone had been waiting for. [/quote]
MacBook Pro - M2, Ventura 13.6 Safari Tech Prev 17.0 Safari 16.6 Firefox 116.0.2 iPhone 7 Version 15.8
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Re: Big Sir or Not??
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Joined: Oct 2020
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Also, V11.2 of Big Sur did cause some other issues which seem to have been corrected in the V11.3 beta. I'm hoping those corrected issues will resolve the eDrive issue with TTPro. Can you be specific about those issues? Sorry for the late reply. I had previously started the thread entitled "Carbon Copy Cloner Status", and the discussion eventually led to issues with the latest release of Tech Tool Pro and creation of its eDrive. On page 2 of that thread, our resident expert joemikeb made an extremely informative post, #57809. I'll quote it here directly to make it easier for you (and others): "I have no experience with Big Sur on Intel Macs and there are definite differences, but from posts I have seen on other product support, web sites macOS 11.2 apparently broke some things associated with external boot drives that were working in 11.1. It appears the problem revolves around changes in the utility used to bless a boot drive. I have also seen reports similar to yours about the version of Disk Utility used to erase a volume. In both cases, early results indicate both issues are fixed in the current macOS 11.3 beta. Given macOS 11 is the biggest rework of Apple's OS since Mac OS X, you may have made the switch one update too soon." Sure is helpful! Thus, that is one reason why I am waiting for the release of V11.3 of Big Sur before making the final move from Catalina.
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Re: Big Sir or Not??
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Joined: Oct 2020
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Wow, that's a bummer about SuperDuper as that is the program I use. I really don't like CCC. Good to know. Thanks. For me, V11.2 has been working fine on my "test" external Samsung SSD. In fact, it seems faster than V11.1. But the one show stopper right now is the issue of not being able to create an eDrive with the latest version of Tech Tool Pro, V13.0.2. Also, V11.2 of Big Sur did cause some other issues which seem to have been corrected in the V11.3 beta. I'm hoping those corrected issues will resolve the eDrive issue with TTPro.
The only other bummer is that there is still no Big Sur version of SuperDuper!. I keep hoping that while I wait for V11.3 of Big Sur to be released, a version of SuperDuper! will be released. But that could be wishful thinking. Fortunately, both of my Macs are Intel-based, and I can use the latest version of Carbon Copy Cloner once I make the move to V11.3. Could not agree more! I know that Dave Nanian has been struggling with Big Sur and trying to come up with a version of SuperDuper! that would work. As it is, only with Intel-based Macs does Carbon Copy Cloner work "cleanly", ie, in a straight forward manner. There is a way to use SuperDuper! with Big Sur, and it's described here: https://www.shirt-pocket.com/blog/But that's WAY too "clumsy" for me! As it is, I believe in the KISS philosophy: Keep It Simple, Stupid, and hence much prefer the direct, straight forward method for the backups.
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Re: Big Sir or Not??
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Joined: Sep 2009
Likes: 3
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OP
Joined: Sep 2009
Likes: 3 |
Thank you. I think I will wait for sure. https://www.shirt-pocket.com/blog/But that's WAY too "clumsy" for me! As it is, I believe in the KISS philosophy: Keep It Simple, Stupid, and hence much prefer the direct, straight forward method for the backups. [/quote]
MacBook Pro - M2, Ventura 13.6 Safari Tech Prev 17.0 Safari 16.6 Firefox 116.0.2 iPhone 7 Version 15.8
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Re: Big Sir or Not??
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Joined: Aug 2009
Likes: 15
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Joined: Aug 2009
Likes: 15 |
This is embarrassing!
I'm so mired in another Big Sur bug (which I think popped up in 11.1) that I completely forgot to mention it...
If I use a keyboard control - Apple supplied or Butler added - to manipulate my currently playing song, the next time I try to play it or anything else the play is choppy, i.e. it stutters and starts and stops and starts... usually until I quit and relaunch Music, but sometimes it corrects itself on its own.
The only reliable way for me to start/pause/stop a song is from within Music.
Giant PIA!
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.
In Memory of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire
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Re: Big Sir or Not??
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Joined: Sep 2009
Likes: 3
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OP
Joined: Sep 2009
Likes: 3 |
Thanks. You're giving me more reasons to wait!! I really don't understand why they launch new versions until they've been completely tested. I know they can miss stuff, but it seems like they don't listen when people give feedback anyway. This is embarrassing!
I'm so mired in another Big Sur bug (which I think popped up in 11.1) that I completely forgot to mention it...
If I use a keyboard control - Apple supplied or Butler added - to manipulate my currently playing song, the next time I try to play it or anything else the play is choppy, i.e. it stutters and starts and stops and starts... usually until I quit and relaunch Music, but sometimes it corrects itself on its own.
The only reliable way for me to start/pause/stop a song is from within Music.
Giant PIA!
MacBook Pro - M2, Ventura 13.6 Safari Tech Prev 17.0 Safari 16.6 Firefox 116.0.2 iPhone 7 Version 15.8
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