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Carbon Copy Cloner Status
#57682 01/26/21 09:53 PM
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I am anticipating making the move from Catalina to Big Sur very soon, as 1) V11.2 of Big Sur will be released very shortly, 2) I've been testing V11.1 of Big Sur on an external SSD, and except for SuperDuper! and Tech Tool Pro, and a couple of very minor glitches, it works fine, and 3) it appears that Micromat is getting real close to releasing an Intel-based version of Tech Tool Pro that is compatible with Big Sur (just like Carbon Copy Cloner). I will then be left with an upgrade for SuperDuper!.

I just had an EMail conversation with Dave Nanian of Shirt Pocket Software about the status of SuperDuper! and Big Sur, and I did not get anything definitive from him. So, I would appreciate it if anyone can tell me if they are using the latest version of Carbon Copy Cloner, V5.1.23, with Big Sur and Intel-based Macs. Also, my use of CCC will be the same as it has always been for SuperDuper!: a complete erasure and formatting of the destination APFS-formatted volume, then a copy/clone of my system (everything on it) to that volume. That suits my needs just fine, as 1) I have never had the need for incremental backups, and 2) I do such backups once a week for both of my Mcs.

In any event, would appreciate feedback.

Re: Carbon Copy Cloner Status
MartyByrde #57683 01/26/21 11:15 PM
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I'm using CCC with Big Sur and, if you follow your customary procedure of reformatting the APFS volume and cloning everything, all will be well. One caveat: Let CCC erase the destination volume as part of the cloning procedure rather than use Disk Utility to reformat and then use CCC. That worked better for me than reformatting with Disk Utility and then cloning with CCC.

Last edited by jchuzi; 01/26/21 11:30 PM.

Jon

macOS 11.7.10, iMac Retina 5K 27-inch, late 2014, 3.5 GHz Intel Core i5, 1 TB fusion drive, 16 GB RAM, Epson SureColor P600, Photoshop CC, Lightroom CC, MS Office 365
Re: Carbon Copy Cloner Status
jchuzi #57684 01/27/21 04:57 AM
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Originally Posted by jchuzi
I'm using CCC with Big Sur and, if you follow your customary procedure of reformatting the APFS volume and cloning everything, all will be well. One caveat: Let CCC erase the destination volume as part of the cloning procedure rather than use Disk Utility to reformat and then use CCC. That worked better for me than reformatting with Disk Utility and then cloning with CCC.

Thanks for the report, and advice! With SuperDuper!, I actually let it Erase the destination (APFS-formatted) volume. So it will be "like old times" with CCC.

Thanks again. Definitely a relief that I have a viable alternative to SuperDuper! that actually works.

Re: Carbon Copy Cloner Status
MartyByrde #57685 01/27/21 05:12 AM
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I don't think Jon's advice to allow CCC to erase is correct.

As far as I know, CCC must erase the destination volume the first time a new task is run in Big Sur, but after that it runs only incremental updates...at least that's the way my installation - Version 5.1.25-b4 (6153) - works.

Once I"ve run a task for the first time, my only options are Copy All Files (incremental update) and Copy Some Files; Full Volume Cone, which includes a mandatory erasure, ceases to be an option.


The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire
Re: Carbon Copy Cloner Status
artie505 #57686 01/27/21 12:22 PM
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After a full clone, and if you want to run a full clone again, click New Task. That will give you all the options, including doing a full clone.


Jon

macOS 11.7.10, iMac Retina 5K 27-inch, late 2014, 3.5 GHz Intel Core i5, 1 TB fusion drive, 16 GB RAM, Epson SureColor P600, Photoshop CC, Lightroom CC, MS Office 365
Re: Carbon Copy Cloner Status
jchuzi #57687 01/27/21 01:11 PM
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Now that you've forced me to think about it... If you erase with Disk Utility, you've got to reconfigure your CCC task, as opposed to configuring a new task as you've suggested.

Since both approaches get you to the exact same endpoint, I guess it comes down to which one you find to be personally less cumbersome.

Actually, the free version of Super Duper!, which offers only Full Volume Clone would be MartyByrde's best option (if it worked in Big Sur).


The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire
Re: Carbon Copy Cloner Status
artie505 #57688 01/27/21 08:06 PM
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Originally Posted by artie505
Actually, the free version of Super Duper!, which offers only Full Volume Clone would be MartyByrde's best option (if it worked in Big Sur).

Agree 100%. Unfortunately, I did not get any indication at all from Dave as to when an updated version of SuperDuper! would be available. When OS 11.2 and a compatible version of Tech Tool Pro are released, and after doing some testing with both, I plan on making the move to Big Sur. Assuming SuperDuper! still has no newer version available, I'll download the free trial version of CCC and use it for 30 days. If SD comes out with a newer version during that time, I'll upgrade. If not, I'll just pay for CCC at that time.

Re: Carbon Copy Cloner Status
jchuzi #57689 01/27/21 08:07 PM
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Originally Posted by jchuzi
After a full clone, and if you want to run a full clone again, click New Task. That will give you all the options, including doing a full clone.

Thanks, jchuzi.

Last edited by MartyByrde; 01/28/21 01:53 AM.
Re: Carbon Copy Cloner Status
MartyByrde #57692 01/28/21 11:58 AM
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After thinking my way through both options, I've decided that Jon's is the least cumbersome of the two.


The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire
Re: Carbon Copy Cloner Status
artie505 #57697 01/28/21 06:23 PM
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Originally Posted by artie505
After thinking my way through both options, I've decided that Jon's is the least cumbersome of the two.

That's the way I plan on doing it. And it's easier to do it "within" CCC.

Re: Carbon Copy Cloner Status
MartyByrde #57702 01/29/21 06:54 PM
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Originally Posted by MartyByrde
Originally Posted by artie505
Actually, the free version of Super Duper!, which offers only Full Volume Clone would be MartyByrde's best option (if it worked in Big Sur).

Agree 100%. Unfortunately, I did not get any indication at all from Dave as to when an updated version of SuperDuper! would be available. When OS 11.2 and a compatible version of Tech Tool Pro are released, and after doing some testing with both, I plan on making the move to Big Sur. Assuming SuperDuper! still has no newer version available, I'll download the free trial version of CCC and use it for 30 days. If SD comes out with a newer version during that time, I'll upgrade. If not, I'll just pay for CCC at that time.
TechToolPro 13.2 has been released, so feel free to take the plunge into Big Sur.


Jon

macOS 11.7.10, iMac Retina 5K 27-inch, late 2014, 3.5 GHz Intel Core i5, 1 TB fusion drive, 16 GB RAM, Epson SureColor P600, Photoshop CC, Lightroom CC, MS Office 365
Re: Carbon Copy Cloner Status
jchuzi #57707 01/29/21 10:22 PM
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Originally Posted by jchuzi
Originally Posted by MartyByrde
Originally Posted by artie505
Actually, the free version of Super Duper!, which offers only Full Volume Clone would be MartyByrde's best option (if it worked in Big Sur).

Agree 100%. Unfortunately, I did not get any indication at all from Dave as to when an updated version of SuperDuper! would be available. When OS 11.2 and a compatible version of Tech Tool Pro are released, and after doing some testing with both, I plan on making the move to Big Sur. Assuming SuperDuper! still has no newer version available, I'll download the free trial version of CCC and use it for 30 days. If SD comes out with a newer version during that time, I'll upgrade. If not, I'll just pay for CCC at that time.
TechToolPro 13.2 has been released, so feel free to take the plunge into Big Sur.

Actually, it is V13.0.2, but yes, getting closer. I have already downloaded it. Now just need to wait until OS 11.2 comes out, which should be very soon:

https://www.macrumors.com/2021/01/28/apple-seeds-macos-big-sur-11-2-rc-3/

Then after some testing, will make the move to CCC, and then completely to Big Sur, V11.2, on both of my Macs.

Last edited by MartyByrde; 01/29/21 10:23 PM.
Re: Carbon Copy Cloner Status
MartyByrde #57717 01/30/21 10:05 PM
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OK, V13.0,2 of Tech Tool Po works flawlessly with the latest version of Catalina, OS 10.15.7. Still waiting for OS 11.2 to be officially released.

Re: Carbon Copy Cloner Status
MartyByrde #57720 01/31/21 04:32 PM
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I tried two things on my internal hard drive with Big Sur 11.1 and TTP 13.0.2. SMART worked fine but there was a problem with live verification testing Volume Structures. The test froze at 6:21 at Snapshot 16 of 32. I had to do a forced shutdown because everything was unresponsive. I notified Micromat about this and will report back with their response.

Previously, I had booted into Recovery Mode and run First Aid with Disk Utility. That went normally.


Jon

macOS 11.7.10, iMac Retina 5K 27-inch, late 2014, 3.5 GHz Intel Core i5, 1 TB fusion drive, 16 GB RAM, Epson SureColor P600, Photoshop CC, Lightroom CC, MS Office 365
Re: Carbon Copy Cloner Status
jchuzi #57722 01/31/21 09:39 PM
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Originally Posted by jchuzi
I tried two things on my internal hard drive with Big Sur 11.1 and TTP 13.0.2. SMART worked fine but there was a problem with live verification testing Volume Structures. The test froze at 6:21 at Snapshot 16 of 32. I had to do a forced shutdown because everything was unresponsive. I notified Micromat about this and will report back with their response.

Previously, I had booted into Recovery Mode and run First Aid with Disk Utility. That went normally.

I use Tech Tool Pro for the following tests:

Memory Test
Smart Check
Partition Map
Volume Structures
Video Memory
Sensors Test
File Structures
Fans Test
(My Mac Book Air only) Battery Check

And for Tools:

Volume Rebuild

But I do all of them after restarting my Mac from Tech Tool Pro's eDrive. That avoids any issues.

However, not yet tested V13.0.2 with Big Sur, as I am waiting for V11.2, which should be out shortly. I'll then report back about testing TTPro, V13.0.2, with Big Sur, V11.2. I will still run the tests, and use the tTool, from the eDrive.

Last edited by MartyByrde; 01/31/21 11:01 PM.
Re: Carbon Copy Cloner Status
MartyByrde #57728 02/01/21 05:58 PM
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From Micromat's response, it looks like I should create an eDrive. Here is their reply:

Hello,

Thanks for the message. The only time a freezing should occur during a Check Computer suite of tests is while performing the Volume Structure testing. During the Volume Structures testing, to test a volume when it is the active startup-volume, the file system must be frozen. During this time, applications will be unresponsive. This is normal, and applications will become responsive again once the test has completed.

You might consider configuring a Check Computer suite of tests to run all other tests except the Volume Structure testing and then run the Volume Structure testing individually. The Volume Structures testing should take around 15 to 30 minutes to complete. If Volume Structure testing is still taking an excessive amount of time when running the Volume Structure testing individually, consider creating a Protogo device or eDrive and performing the testing while booted to one of those devices. The good thing about testing the Volume Structure’s of the internal drive from an eDrive or Protogo device, is the file system doesn’t have to be frozen in that setup, since you are booted to an alternative location other that the internal.


Jon

macOS 11.7.10, iMac Retina 5K 27-inch, late 2014, 3.5 GHz Intel Core i5, 1 TB fusion drive, 16 GB RAM, Epson SureColor P600, Photoshop CC, Lightroom CC, MS Office 365
Re: Carbon Copy Cloner Status
jchuzi #57729 02/01/21 06:11 PM
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Originally Posted by jchuzi
From Micromat's response, it looks like I should create an eDrive. Here is their reply:

Hello,

Thanks for the message. The only time a freezing should occur during a Check Computer suite of tests is while performing the Volume Structure testing. During the Volume Structures testing, to test a volume when it is the active startup-volume, the file system must be frozen. During this time, applications will be unresponsive. This is normal, and applications will become responsive again once the test has completed.

You might consider configuring a Check Computer suite of tests to run all other tests except the Volume Structure testing and then run the Volume Structure testing individually. The Volume Structures testing should take around 15 to 30 minutes to complete. If Volume Structure testing is still taking an excessive amount of time when running the Volume Structure testing individually, consider creating a Protogo device or eDrive and performing the testing while booted to one of those devices. The good thing about testing the Volume Structure’s of the internal drive from an eDrive or Protogo device, is the file system doesn’t have to be frozen in that setup, since you are booted to an alternative location other that the internal.

I believe there are more than one of the tests (and maybe Volume Rebuild also) that require running them from the eDrive. I have always used the eDrive for running the tasks I mentioned above, and never had an issue.

Re: Carbon Copy Cloner Status
MartyByrde #57732 02/01/21 07:45 PM
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Well, OS 11.2 was just released. Have already downloaded the full installer file. I now have an afternoon project to do, after we get our COVID shots. Will be doing a clean, fresh installation of OS 11.2 on a partition of my external Samsung 1TB External SSD. I assume I can create a Tech Tool Pro eDrive of that partition, and thus can properly test Tech Tool Pro (along, of course, with my other apps, including the latest version of Onyx). As long as Apple did not throw any more wrenches or surprises, I expect testing to go well.

Re: Carbon Copy Cloner Status
MartyByrde #57740 02/02/21 06:12 PM
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OK, just an update. So far, OS 11.2 is working well. And it seems faster. From my testing so far, the third party apps I have tested work fine, as well as Tech Tool Pro. Still no update yet for SuperDuper!. But as long as testing with Big Sur continues to go well, I plan on making the permanent move to V11.2 this weekend. And as I mentioned before, that will include the use of the trial version of CCC.

Last edited by MartyByrde; 02/02/21 06:12 PM.
Re: Carbon Copy Cloner Status
MartyByrde #57741 02/02/21 06:39 PM
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Well, Dave Nanian updated the Shirt Pocket blog:

https://www.shirt-pocket.com/blog/

Unfortunately, not a viable solution as far as I'm concerned. Bombich software has been able to come up with a more straight forward method for Intel-based Macs, and so it looks like I'll be moving to CCC.

Wonder what's going to happen with the next version of the Mac OS?

Re: Carbon Copy Cloner Status
MartyByrde #57744 02/03/21 01:16 AM
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Originally Posted by MartyByrde
Unfortunately, not a viable solution as far as I'm concerned. Bombich software has been able to come up with a more straight forward method for Intel-based Macs, and so it looks like I'll be moving to CCC.
Two comments
  1. Making a bootable external drive for an M1 Mac is doable, even easy, IF you use a high quality external SSD with a Thunderbolt 3 or 4 interface connected directly to one of the TB4 ports on the M1.
  2. After numerous trials I have come to the conclusion that attempting to keep an external drive in synch with the internal drive by cloning only the data volume is a PITA for numerous reasons and although it might be faster to use a cloned data volume to recover than Time Machine either one is still a long tedious process with lots of steps. Unless and until Apple fixes the ASR routine and that routine successfully copies not only all the volumes including the security settings, I can't see cloning as a viable alternative. Of course YMMV.


Originally Posted by MartyByrde
Wonder what's going to happen with the next version of the Mac OS?
IMHO, security issues will continue to put more bounds and constraints on macOS, its operations, and applications. The OS will become more of an unpenetratable black-box.

Last edited by joemikeb; 02/03/21 01:19 AM. Reason: format error 😱

If we knew what it was we were doing, it wouldn't be called research, would it?

— Albert Einstein
Re: Carbon Copy Cloner Status
joemikeb #57746 02/03/21 05:10 AM
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Originally Posted by joemikeb
Originally Posted by MartyByrde
Unfortunately, not a viable solution as far as I'm concerned. Bombich software has been able to come up with a more straight forward method for Intel-based Macs, and so it looks like I'll be moving to CCC.
Two comments
  1. Making a bootable external drive for an M1 Mac is doable, even easy, IF you use a high quality external SSD with a Thunderbolt 3 or 4 interface connected directly to one of the TB4 ports on the M1.
  2. After numerous trials I have come to the conclusion that attempting to keep an external drive in synch with the internal drive by cloning only the data volume is a PITA for numerous reasons and although it might be faster to use a cloned data volume to recover than Time Machine either one is still a long tedious process with lots of steps. Unless and until Apple fixes the ASR routine and that routine successfully copies not only all the volumes including the security settings, I can't see cloning as a viable alternative. Of course YMMV.

I have been contemplating replacing my mid 2018 Mac Book Air with an M1 model, but given all these hassles, I of course have resisted. Also, it's encouraging that Bombich software was able to resolve this "ASR" issue for Intel-based Macs, but very disappointing that Shirt Pocket Software has not.

Originally Posted by joemikeb
Originally Posted by MartyByrde
Wonder what's going to happen with the next version of the Mac OS?
IMHO, security issues will continue to put more bounds and constraints on macOS, its operations, and applications. The OS will become more of an unpenetratable black-box.

With the way Apple has been developing recent versions of the Mac OS, I suspect you are correct. They sure don't believe in the KISS philosophy: Keep It Simple, Stupid. It seems Apple has a vendetta out for SuperDuper! and Carbon Copy Cloner!

Re: Carbon Copy Cloner Status
MartyByrde #57749 02/03/21 07:03 PM
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Originally Posted by MartyByrde
[With the way Apple has been developing recent versions of the Mac OS, I suspect you are correct. They sure don't believe in the KISS philosophy: Keep It Simple, Stupid. It seems Apple has a vendetta out for SuperDuper! and Carbon Copy Cloner!
Actually this is Apple's way of keeping it simple for the average user. Unfortunately making it more difficult for malware developers inevitably makes it more difficult for some utility developers and advanced users.


If we knew what it was we were doing, it wouldn't be called research, would it?

— Albert Einstein
Re: Carbon Copy Cloner Status
joemikeb #57756 02/03/21 08:54 PM
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Originally Posted by joemikeb
Originally Posted by MartyByrde
[With the way Apple has been developing recent versions of the Mac OS, I suspect you are correct. They sure don't believe in the KISS philosophy: Keep It Simple, Stupid. It seems Apple has a vendetta out for SuperDuper! and Carbon Copy Cloner!
Actually this is Apple's way of keeping it simple for the average user. Unfortunately making it more difficult for malware developers inevitably makes it more difficult for some utility developers and advanced users.

Nope, cannot agree. If Apple really wanted to, they could make it easier and clearer for the user, whether average or not. In actuality, something like that happened with V10.15.5 of Catalina. That release definitely created major pains for both SuperDuper! and Carbon Copy Cloner. Apple did get some what wise when that inexcusable snafu was corrected in V10.15.6, and continues in V10.15.7. Now with Big Sur, Apple seems to be sticking their noses up to both Shirt Pocket Software and Bombich Software. Definitely not good.

Re: Carbon Copy Cloner Status
MartyByrde #57773 02/04/21 10:19 PM
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By-the-way, just when you thought it was safe to move to Big Sur macOS 11.3 is now in beta, just 24 hours after the public release of macIS 11.2.


If we knew what it was we were doing, it wouldn't be called research, would it?

— Albert Einstein
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