An open community 
of Macintosh users,
for Macintosh users.

FineTunedMac Dashboard widget now available! Download Here

Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 5 of 5 1 2 3 4 5
Re: Big Sur??
Ira L #57386 12/21/20 07:15 PM
Joined: Aug 2009
Likes: 2
Online

Joined: Aug 2009
Likes: 2
Originally Posted by Ira L
Originally Posted by artie505
It came as a surprise although I should have expected it: Pacifist can't open Install macOS Big Sur.app; the Catalina installer was the last one it could open.
(I assume it will continue to work with .dmg Deltas and Combos, but I couldn't test with the macOS 11.1 Delta because it doesn't appear on Apple's Downloads page. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ )

According to this article there will be no more standalone installers for Big Sur.
That 'splains it.

A cherished and valued old friend - Pacifist, that is - has passed on to the great database in the sky. (No! Not the one in the cloud.)

Thanks, Ira.


The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire
Re: Big Sur??
artie505 #57392 12/22/20 10:16 AM
Joined: Aug 2009
Likes: 2
Online

Joined: Aug 2009
Likes: 2
So I upgraded to Big Sur 11.1, and here, in no particular order...
  1. My biggest fear was that my NoSleep extension would stop working, but it's still functional, as is a second extension. (Does running with Gatekeeper disabled have anything to do with it?)
  2. I was totally and unhappily unable to delete items from my boot image. In a Big Sur clone, I was able to access the image, but everything I tried returned a "No Write" error or failed otherwise, while in a Catalina clone, the boot image can't even be mounted. (I've got zero idea why Apple has locked down the apps folder. Why can't I delete aps that I"ll never use?)
  3. I dont know what Apple was thinking when they set screen parameters, but this unintuitive setting works for me, although I don't love the "hard" lines.
  4. Customize Toolbar > Flexible Space doesn't work as expected in Mail and Terminal, although it works just fine in Safari.
  5. My Close Notifications (with hotkey) Automator workflow service returns a "Stack overflow" error. (It uses AppleScript, but I've found an alternative that uses javascript...fingers crossed.)
  6. Safari 14.02 bug in Big Sur
  7. Big Sur Mail bug?


More: I just learned that the Spotlight menulet can now (but since when) be removed from your menu bar with a simple command-drag to desktop. smile


The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire
Re: Big Sur??
MartyByrde #57397 12/22/20 06:10 PM
Joined: Aug 2009
Likes: 1
Offline

Joined: Aug 2009
Likes: 1
Originally Posted by MartyByrde
Yuk! So does that mean there will no longer be any Combo Installers that I can download and apply myself? That's not good.

That's how I read it.


On a Mac since 1984.
Currently: 27" iMacs, Macbook Air, macOS 10.15.x,; iPhones, iPods and iPads galore!
Re: Big Sur??
Ira L #57398 12/22/20 06:46 PM
Joined: Aug 2009
Likes: 2
Online

Joined: Aug 2009
Likes: 2
Originally Posted by Ira L
Originally Posted by MartyByrde
Yuk! So does that mean there will no longer be any Combo Installers that I can download and apply myself? That's not good.

That's how I read it.
And "rerunning the Combo" is no longer an option. We've now got to reinstall the entire OS.


The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire
Re: Big Sur??
artie505 #57399 12/22/20 06:54 PM
Joined: Oct 2020
Offline

Joined: Oct 2020
Originally Posted by artie505
Originally Posted by Ira L
Originally Posted by MartyByrde
Yuk! So does that mean there will no longer be any Combo Installers that I can download and apply myself? That's not good.

That's how I read it.
And "rerunning the Combo" is no longer an option. We've now got to reinstall the entire OS.

Not good. I insist on being in complete control with either installing or updating the Mac OS, and with most of my applications that I use. Not having that option with updates anymore in Big Sur is a real bummer.

Re: Big Sur??
artie505 #57400 12/22/20 06:54 PM
Joined: Aug 2009
Likes: 1
Offline

Joined: Aug 2009
Likes: 1
If you want something like the Combo Updater, I am guessing you will have to do something like the installation options available with the command-R on restart.


On a Mac since 1984.
Currently: 27" iMacs, Macbook Air, macOS 10.15.x,; iPhones, iPods and iPads galore!
Re: Big Sur??
MartyByrde #57403 12/22/20 08:32 PM
Joined: Aug 2009
Likes: 2
Online

Joined: Aug 2009
Likes: 2
Originally Posted by MartyByrde
Originally Posted by artie505
Originally Posted by Ira L
Originally Posted by MartyByrde
Yuk! So does that mean there will no longer be any Combo Installers that I can download and apply myself? That's not good.

That's how I read it.
And "rerunning the Combo" is no longer an option. We've now got to reinstall the entire OS.

Not good. I insist on being in complete control with either installing or updating the Mac OS, and with most of my applications that I use. Not having that option with updates anymore in Big Sur is a real bummer.
I'm not sure what control you've lost.

You can still install when you're good and ready, and the source is still Apple. albeit via a different d/l channel.

The only thing you've lost is the ability to save the d/l for later, and rerunning it has been chancy for years, anyhow.


The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire
Re: Big Sur??
Ira L #57404 12/22/20 09:00 PM
Joined: Aug 2009
Likes: 2
Moderator
Offline
Moderator

Joined: Aug 2009
Likes: 2
Originally Posted by Ira L
If you want something like the Combo Updater, I am guessing you will have to do something like the installation options available with the command-R on restart.
The only option in the Recovery Drive is a full install but the only difference between that and the results of a combo updater should be the size of the download package.

Last edited by joemikeb; 12/22/20 09:03 PM.

joemikeb • moderator
Re: Big Sur??
joemikeb #57405 12/22/20 09:11 PM
Joined: Aug 2009
Likes: 2
Online

Joined: Aug 2009
Likes: 2
Originally Posted by joemikeb
Originally Posted by Ira L
If you want something like the Combo Updater, I am guessing you will have to do something like the installation options available with the command-R on restart.
The only option in the Recovery Drive is a full install but the only difference between that and the results of a combo updater should be the size of the download package.
The considerably longer installation time is another difference.


The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire
Re: Big Sur??
artie505 #57406 12/22/20 09:27 PM
Joined: Aug 2009
Likes: 2
Moderator
Offline
Moderator

Joined: Aug 2009
Likes: 2
Originally Posted by artie505
The considerably longer installation time is another difference.
In the process of troubleshooting an issue with a third party kernel extension, I have performed half a dozen full installs in the past two days. The average install time to my internal drive including download on the average runs less than twenty-five minutes (external drives take a little longer). Although I haven't run a combo update in a few years, IIRC that would compare favorably. Even better, a full install further reduces the chance of an error. 🤷‍♂️


joemikeb • moderator
Re: Big Sur??
artie505 #57408 12/22/20 09:54 PM
Joined: Oct 2020
Offline

Joined: Oct 2020
Originally Posted by artie505
Originally Posted by MartyByrde
Not good. I insist on being in complete control with either installing or updating the Mac OS, and with most of my applications that I use. Not having that option with updates anymore in Big Sur is a real bummer.
I'm not sure what control you've lost.

You can still install when you're good and ready, and the source is still Apple. albeit via a different d/l channel.

The only thing you've lost is the ability to save the d/l for later, and rerunning it has been chancy for years, anyhow.

I really like that I can download either the full installation file, the Combo Updater file, or the so-called "Delta" updater file myself, save it, and then when I am good and ready, launch it myself. I don't like Apple controlling that process. This new "convoluted" way that Appel wants to do it takes away that control, and for me, it is a big deal.

Oh well, I'll just stick with downloading the full installation file, and proceeding with its installation. Doing that, together with a recent SuperDuper! backup is a smooth process.

Re: Big Sur??
joemikeb #57409 12/22/20 09:55 PM
Joined: Aug 2009
Likes: 2
Online

Joined: Aug 2009
Likes: 2
Originally Posted by joemikeb
Originally Posted by artie505
The considerably longer installation time is another difference.
In the process of troubleshooting an issue with a third party kernel extension, I have performed half a dozen full installs in the past two days. The average install time to my internal drive including download on the average runs less than twenty-five minutes (external drives take a little longer). Although I haven't run a combo update in a few years, IIRC that would compare favorably. Even better, a full install further reduces the chance of an error. 🤷‍♂️
But it'll be a bunch of years before a significant percentage of users is running M-1s, which, if my memory serves me, you've complimented for their significantly faster installation times.

I didn't clock it, but I'm certain that my Big Sur upgrade took at least 45 minutes.


The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire
Re: Big Sur??
artie505 #57410 12/22/20 10:08 PM
Joined: Aug 2009
Likes: 2
Moderator
Offline
Moderator

Joined: Aug 2009
Likes: 2
Originally Posted by artie505
But it'll be a bunch of years before a significant percentage of users is running M-1s, which, if my memory serves me, you've complimented for their significantly faster installation times.

I didn't clock it, but I'm certain that my Big Sur upgrade took at least 45 minutes.
I guess that proves how easy it is to become accustomed to faster performance. I hadn't occurred to me to take the dramatic speed increase of the Apple SoC into consideration. ⚡️ "Shazam". ⚡️😄


joemikeb • moderator
Re: Big Sur??
MartyByrde #57411 12/22/20 10:12 PM
Joined: Aug 2009
Likes: 2
Online

Joined: Aug 2009
Likes: 2
Originally Posted by MartyByrde
I really like that I can download either the full installation file, the Combo Updater file, or the so-called "Delta" updater file myself, save it, and then when I am good and ready, launch it myself. I don't like Apple controlling that process. This new "convoluted" way that Appel wants to do it takes away that control, and for me, it is a big deal.

Oh well, I'll just stick with downloading the full installation file, and proceeding with its installation. Doing that, together with a recent SuperDuper! backup is a smooth process.
"Automatically keep my Mac up to date" is a user option, not something that Apple has forced down our throats.

As easily as you can d/l the Deltas and save them for later, you can ignore Software Update 'til you're good and ready to run it.

The only downsides I can see would be if the next Delta is released before you've run the previous one and that there'll apparently never again be a Combo.


The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire
Re: Big Sur??
artie505 #57412 12/23/20 12:26 AM
Joined: Oct 2020
Offline

Joined: Oct 2020
Originally Posted by artie505
Originally Posted by MartyByrde
I really like that I can download either the full installation file, the Combo Updater file, or the so-called "Delta" updater file myself, save it, and then when I am good and ready, launch it myself. I don't like Apple controlling that process. This new "convoluted" way that Appel wants to do it takes away that control, and for me, it is a big deal.

Oh well, I'll just stick with downloading the full installation file, and proceeding with its installation. Doing that, together with a recent SuperDuper! backup is a smooth process.
"Automatically keep my Mac up to date" is a user option, not something that Apple has forced down our throats.

I am well aware of that option, and of course have it turned off.

Originally Posted by artie505
As easily as you can d/l the Deltas and save them for later, you can ignore Software Update 'til you're good and ready to run it.

You are missing my point. I want to be able to download the file myself, and then apply it when I are ready. And I don't used Software Update for any updates. I don't want that.

Originally Posted by artie505
The only downsides I can see would be if the next Delta is released before you've run the previous one and that there'll apparently never again be a Combo.

Well, for now, that's not going to be an issue. I suspect I will still be testing Big Sur when V11.2 is released, and thus will download the complete installer file, and proceed with the installation when I am good and ready.

Re: Big Sur??
MartyByrde #57413 12/23/20 03:55 AM
Joined: Aug 2009
Likes: 2
Online

Joined: Aug 2009
Likes: 2
Originally Posted by MartyByrde
I want to be able to download the file myself, and then apply it when I are ready. And I don't used Software Update for any updates.
I feel that way about Sparkle, but not, recently, anyhow, Software Update.

How do you deal with the App Store?


The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire
Re: Big Sur??
artie505 #57414 12/23/20 05:02 AM
Joined: Oct 2020
Offline

Joined: Oct 2020
Originally Posted by artie505
I feel that way about Sparkle, but not, recently, anyhow, Software Update.

How do you deal with the App Store?

First, start from here:

https://apps.apple.com/us/app/macos-big-sur/id1526878132?ls=1&mt=12

Then, click on "Open App Store". A screen will appear containing Big Sur, along with the Get button. Just click on the Get button, and that full installation file (the latest non-beta one) will be downloaded to your Applications folder. You'll most likely be then shown a screen to start the installation. Exit out of that. Then, copy that Installer file to another location on your machine, after which you should delete the one inside your applications folder (to, obviously, save space). The reason for copying it to another location is when you launch it form there, it will not get deleted, and hence you don't need to download it again.

Re: Big Sur??
MartyByrde #57415 12/23/20 09:18 AM
Joined: Aug 2009
Likes: 2
Online

Joined: Aug 2009
Likes: 2
Good answer...wrong question.

I was wondering how you deal with App Store apps, i.e. the fact that the App Store works the same as Software Update, i.e. you can't d/l installers and update your apps at your leisure.


The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire
Re: Big Sur??
MartyByrde #57416 12/23/20 05:23 PM
Joined: Aug 2009
Likes: 2
Moderator
Offline
Moderator

Joined: Aug 2009
Likes: 2
Originally Posted by MartyByrde
Well, for now, that's not going to be an issue. I suspect I will still be testing Big Sur when V11.2 is released, and thus will download the complete installer file, and proceed with the installation when I am good and ready.
Given the level of control you appear to want, I have to wonder why you aren'r running some form of Linux or BSD Unix instead of macOS? That way you could download the actual source code make any modifications to it you desire then compile and run at your pleasure. You could include only the functions you use and leave all the other "stuff" out. You would have a totally customized environment and applications and there would be no App Store or any controlling agency other than yourself.


joemikeb • moderator
Re: Big Sur??
artie505 #57417 12/23/20 06:36 PM
Joined: Oct 2020
Offline

Joined: Oct 2020
Originally Posted by artie505
Good answer...wrong question.

I was wondering how you deal with App Store apps, i.e. the fact that the App Store works the same as Software Update, i.e. you can't d/l installers and update your apps at your leisure.

Except for the Mac OS, that's true. I do not use any Apple apps at all (all third party ones), but there are a number of third party apps where one is forced to use the App store for either initial download/installation, or updates. Sometimes, though, some of them have an alternate way to getting either the app or an update.

Then of course there are Security Updates to the Mac OS. It looks like the option of downloading them directly, and applying them when I desire, is going away.

Last edited by MartyByrde; 12/23/20 06:43 PM.
Re: Big Sur??
joemikeb #57418 12/23/20 06:40 PM
Joined: Oct 2020
Offline

Joined: Oct 2020
Originally Posted by joemikeb
Originally Posted by MartyByrde
Well, for now, that's not going to be an issue. I suspect I will still be testing Big Sur when V11.2 is released, and thus will download the complete installer file, and proceed with the installation when I am good and ready.
Given the level of control you appear to want, I have to wonder why you aren'r running some form of Linux or BSD Unix instead of macOS? That way you could download the actual source code make any modifications to it you desire then compile and run at your pleasure. You could include only the functions you use and leave all the other "stuff" out. You would have a totally customized environment and applications and there would be no App Store or any controlling agency other than yourself.

While I used to be a software developer in my working days (quite a while ago), I don't want nor need those headaches! And for the Mac OS, it's the way I have always done it (unless for those instances where I just download and apply the Combo installer. Looks like that option, however, is going away).

For just about all of my third party apps, though, I take the upgrade route (Onyx is the only exception, as they have a version specific to each Mac OS).

Re: Big Sur??
joemikeb #57424 12/24/20 04:07 AM
Joined: Aug 2009
Likes: 2
Online

Joined: Aug 2009
Likes: 2
An interesting change in Big Sur...

Running
Code
csrutil status
in Terminal used to return either "SIP Enabled" or "SIP Disabled," but, rather than "SIP Disabled," it now returns
Code
artie@Artie's-MacBook-Pro-2 ~ % csrutil status
System Integrity Protection status: unknown (Custom Configuration).

Configuration:
	Apple Internal: disabled
	Kext Signing: disabled
	Filesystem Protections: disabled
	Debugging Restrictions: disabled
	DTrace Restrictions: disabled
	NVRAM Protections: disabled
	BaseSystem Verification: enabled

This is an unsupported configuration, likely to break in the future and leave your machine in an unknown state.

A scare tactic?

I guess I'll have to let Apple know what that state is when I reach it. Hopefully it'll be a blue state.


The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire
Re: Big Sur??
MartyByrde #57432 12/24/20 09:30 AM
Joined: Aug 2009
Likes: 2
Online

Joined: Aug 2009
Likes: 2
Originally Posted by MartyByrde
...there are a number of third party apps where one is forced to use the App store for either initial download/installation, or updates. Sometimes, though, some of them have an alternate way to getting either the app or an update.
I d/l directly from developers when it's possible, but when I must deal with updates pushed through by the App Store I immediately do a control-click > Compress... on the updated version so I've got a backup "installer."


The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire
Page 5 of 5 1 2 3 4 5

Moderated by  alternaut, dkmarsh, joemikeb 

Link Copied to Clipboard
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.4
(Release build 20200307)
Responsive Width:

PHP: 7.3.24 Page Time: 0.029s Queries: 61 (0.018s) Memory: 0.8408 MB (Peak: 1.0091 MB) Data Comp: Zlib Server Time: 2021-01-16 12:03:51 UTC
Valid HTML 5 and Valid CSS