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Re: Big Sur??
MG2009 #57335 12/16/20 08:56 PM
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OK, on Monday, I "bit the bullet" and did a clean, fresh installation of V11.1 of Big Sur onto an APFS-formatted partition on my (new) External Samsung T7 1 TB external SSD, and then migrated files, folders, settings, apps, etc. from my late 2018 Mac Mini's internal SSD. Been testing now fo 2 days, and knock on wood, everything is working fine. Here is a list of applications I have exercised so far:

1. Brave, Firefox, Google Chrome, and Opera all work fine.
2. A new version of Onyx, V3.9.1, compatible with Big Sur, was released yesterday. Installed and ran it, and it works fine.
3. LibreOffice and VueScan work well. I did not download any Canon drivers at all (I have a Canon MX 890 printer/scanner). Just used the printer drivers contained within Big Sur. Again, all is well.
4. VLC, 1 Password, Transmission, Quicken 2017, Klondike Forever, and EasyFind work as expected.
5. Although Thunderbird is not "officially" compatible yet (there was a second beta release of a newer version of Thunderbird on November 24th, and based on what I read, looks very promising), the last stable version is working fine, with just one very, very minor "issue".

I plan on running Big Sur just about every day. Just waiting for Big Sur - compatible versions of SuperDuper! and Tech Tool Pro (suspect the one for Thunderbird will be out soon). On Saturdays, though (as I always do), I'll restart my Mac Mini from its internal SSD (hence its Catalina environment) and proceed with my normal weekly tasks of running Onyx, Tech Tool Pro, and doing 2 SuperDuper! backups to 2 separate external SSDs.

But again, so far, I am pleased. I of course cannot comment on the launching speed of Big Sur, as it is via that external partition on that Samsung T7 (although it is via a connection to one of the USB-C ports on the Mini). But once the start up process completes, Big Sur seems snappy enough, although not much different from Catalina.

Last edited by MartyByrde; 12/16/20 09:51 PM.
Re: Big Sur??
MartyByrde #57338 12/16/20 09:28 PM
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Thank you for the progress report. I will probably take the plunge in the near future but expect resistance from my better half (she always has fits when I do an upgrade, and sometimes for good reason!). Please post back with any further developments, good or bad.


Jon

macOS 11.7.10, iMac Retina 5K 27-inch, late 2014, 3.5 GHz Intel Core i5, 1 TB fusion drive, 16 GB RAM, Epson SureColor P600, Photoshop CC, Lightroom CC, MS Office 365
Re: Big Sur??
jchuzi #57340 12/16/20 09:50 PM
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Originally Posted by jchuzi
Thank you for the progress report. I will probably take the plunge in the near future but expect resistance from my better half (she always has fits when I do an upgrade, and sometimes for good reason!). Please post back with any further developments, good or bad.

You're most welcome. I typically have no issue at all, as I always do a clean, fresh installation of any new Mac OS (but not immediately, as it is best to wait a version or two before moving). And sometimes I do a clean, fresh installation within the same OS. On other occasions, I download and apply the Combo version.

Also, not sure if you saw my other post about Big Sur, but my Samsung T7 SSD is actually an external model, and thus i am testing Big Sur separately from my Catalina environment.

Last edited by MartyByrde; 12/16/20 09:52 PM.
Re: Big Sur??
MartyByrde #57345 12/17/20 08:48 PM
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Well, as I've been saying all along, it seems there are still some bugs/issues with Big Sur, even V11.1. The beta for V11.2 was released yesterday:

https://www.macrumors.com/2020/12/17/apple-seeds-macos-big-sur-11-2-public-beta-1/

No details on what is trying to be fixed. So far, my testing is proceeding very smoothly, although another real minor issue (with LibreOffice) has arisen (or I saw it for the first time earlier today). Not a show stopper, more like an annoyance.

Last edited by MartyByrde; 12/17/20 08:48 PM.
Re: Big Sur??
MartyByrde #57346 12/17/20 09:01 PM
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I just came across an update for Libre Office


Jon

macOS 11.7.10, iMac Retina 5K 27-inch, late 2014, 3.5 GHz Intel Core i5, 1 TB fusion drive, 16 GB RAM, Epson SureColor P600, Photoshop CC, Lightroom CC, MS Office 365
Re: Big Sur??
MartyByrde #57347 12/17/20 09:59 PM
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Originally Posted by MartyByrde
Well, as I've been saying all along, it seems there are still some bugs/issues with Big Sur, even V11.1. The beta for V11.2 was released yesterday:

If you followed the beta releases, as I do, you would be aware this has been the pattern for the last several years. Throughout the lifetime of a major OS release there will be a update release roughly every two months. For beta testers that boils down to a beta release every two to three weeks and toward the end of a beta those have sometimes come every day or two. Late in the lifetime of an OS version it isn't unusual for beta releases of the next major version and the final updates to the current release to overlap. In fact the first beta of 11.0.1 was in the hands of beta testers before the official release of MacOS 11. The early updates generally include features that were announced but for one reason or another were deemed unready for public release.

This same pattern is mirrored in iOS, iPadOS, TvOS, and WatchOS and in fact all Apple OS releases are pretty much in lock step and all the releases including betas are generally within a few days of one another. Yesterday I installed beta updates on 3 Macs, 1 iPhone, 1 iPad, 1Apple Watch, and 2 Apple TVs. The sole item is noted in the various release notes was making an iOS/iPadOS feature available other situations. That doesn't mean there aren't any bug fixes included, but if there are any, they are too obscure to be noted in any general testing.


If we knew what it was we were doing, it wouldn't be called research, would it?

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Re: Big Sur??
MartyByrde #57348 12/18/20 03:30 AM
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Originally Posted by MartyByrde
Well, as I've been saying all along, it seems there are still some bugs/issues with Big Sur, even V11.1. The beta for V11.2 was released yesterday: ....
Out of curiosity, since (as joemike has pointed out) there are likely to be at least 6 updates to macOS 11, as there have been to each of the past five OS versions, at what point will you feel comfortable upgrading, and why will you find any version short of 11.6 palatable?


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In Memory of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire
Re: Big Sur??
artie505 #57351 12/18/20 04:56 PM
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It should also be noted that MacOS, iOS, iPadOS, WatchOS, & TvOS are all built on the same core. So any new feature or bug fix to any one OS may well involve a change in that core code thus requiring the change to be tested in each of the other venues to be sure it does not create unexpected problems in those environments and thereby triggers an update of all the variations. So, for example, a MacOS update could potentially be triggered by the addition of support for Apple's new Fitness app in iOS and WatchOS. (It is rumored that Apple will introduce a new Apple TV this spring with support for games and gaming controllers which mightl require tweaks to the core and trigger another round of updates to all the OS varieties.) It should be noted however that these updates are also a good opportunity to sneak in bug fixes and security patches unique to particular devices as well.

The point is a MacOS, iOS, iPadOS, WatchOS, or TvOS update does not necessarily imply there were significant or minor problems unless you have access to the complete developer release notes and even then you might not comprehend the magnitude of change in any given release if it was not in your specific area of knowledge/expertise.


If we knew what it was we were doing, it wouldn't be called research, would it?

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Re: Big Sur??
jchuzi #57352 12/18/20 08:59 PM
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Originally Posted by jchuzi
I just came across an update for Libre Office

Thanks. I am downloading it as I write this in my Big Sur "environment". Will see if it makes much difference.

Re: Big Sur??
joemikeb #57353 12/18/20 09:01 PM
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Originally Posted by joemikeb
Originally Posted by MartyByrde
Well, as I've been saying all along, it seems there are still some bugs/issues with Big Sur, even V11.1. The beta for V11.2 was released yesterday:

If you followed the beta releases, as I do, you would be aware this has been the pattern for the last several years. Throughout the lifetime of a major OS release there will be a update release roughly every two months. For beta testers that boils down to a beta release every two to three weeks and toward the end of a beta those have sometimes come every day or two. Late in the lifetime of an OS version it isn't unusual for beta releases of the next major version and the final updates to the current release to overlap. In fact the first beta of 11.0.1 was in the hands of beta testers before the official release of MacOS 11. The early updates generally include features that were announced but for one reason or another were deemed unready for public release.

This same pattern is mirrored in iOS, iPadOS, TvOS, and WatchOS and in fact all Apple OS releases are pretty much in lock step and all the releases including betas are generally within a few days of one another. Yesterday I installed beta updates on 3 Macs, 1 iPhone, 1 iPad, 1Apple Watch, and 2 Apple TVs. The sole item is noted in the various release notes was making an iOS/iPadOS feature available other situations. That doesn't mean there aren't any bug fixes included, but if there are any, they are too obscure to be noted in any general testing.

It seems that in the "earlier" versions of a new Mac OS, such beta releases happen faster. But as the OS matures, they come later, and eventually stop.

Re: Big Sur??
artie505 #57354 12/18/20 09:03 PM
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Originally Posted by artie505
Originally Posted by MartyByrde
Well, as I've been saying all along, it seems there are still some bugs/issues with Big Sur, even V11.1. The beta for V11.2 was released yesterday: ....
Out of curiosity, since (as joemike has pointed out) there are likely to be at least 6 updates to macOS 11, as there have been to each of the past five OS versions, at what point will you feel comfortable upgrading, and why will you find any version short of 11.6 palatable?

Myself, given that I have to wait until Tech Tool Pro has a compatible version, I have made the final move by the time the .3 version of the Mac OS has been released. That has always worked well for me. (In a way, it's good that Tech Tool Pro is last, as by that time the new OS has really settled down).

For Catalina, though, there was one major glitch that came up with a subsequent version. V10.15.5 initially wrecked havoc for SuperDuper! (SD) and Carbon Copy Cloner (CCC). CCC did introduce a version that addressed that issue, whereas SD did not. But Apple shortly thereafter released V10.15.6 of Catalina, and that issue in V10.15.5 went away.

Last edited by MartyByrde; 12/18/20 09:24 PM.
Re: Big Sur??
MartyByrde #57355 12/18/20 09:28 PM
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OK, new version of LIbreOffice works fine with V11.1 of Big Sur. Not noticing any differences, though, from V7.0.3.

Also, V78.6 of Thunderbird was released earlier today:

https://www.thunderbird.net/en-US/

I downloaded and installed it, and the minor "annoyance", at least when I use it with Big Sur, is gone.

Note, though, that there is no mention of specific Big Sur compatibility. For Thunderbird, there is a beta version, V84.0.2, that is in development, and has shown promise of being compatible. But I am not experiencing any issues.

Last edited by MartyByrde; 12/18/20 09:28 PM.
Re: Big Sur??
MartyByrde #57356 12/18/20 09:52 PM
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Originally Posted by MartyByrde
It seems that in the "earlier" versions of a new Mac OS, such beta releases happen faster. But as the OS matures, they come later, and eventually stop.
According to MacTracker Sierra, High Sierra, Mojave, and Catalina were launched in late September and early October with updates the last of October, early December, late January, late March, May, and July, Catalina had an additional release in September, probably due to the delayed launch of Big Sur pending the availability of Apple Silicon Macs. So, it would seem, Big Sur is pretty much on schedule If you factor in its late launch. The subsequent version in each case was previewed at the World Wide Developers Conference in Early to mid June and beta tests were in full swing before the July update and most of the beta testers and the bulk of the OS development team had transitioned to the upcoming version. I will not be surprised if are were only five MacOS 11 updates, assuming MacOS 12 makes the normal last week of October, first week of September launch date.

So in essence your adoption decision is driven by the calendar and Apple's carefully orchestrated development/support schedule.

Last edited by joemikeb; 12/18/20 09:56 PM.

If we knew what it was we were doing, it wouldn't be called research, would it?

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Re: Big Sur??
joemikeb #57359 12/19/20 12:50 AM
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Originally Posted by joemikeb
Originally Posted by MartyByrde
It seems that in the "earlier" versions of a new Mac OS, such beta releases happen faster. But as the OS matures, they come later, and eventually stop.
According to MacTracker Sierra, High Sierra, Mojave, and Catalina were launched in late September and early October with updates the last of October, early December, late January, late March, May, and July, Catalina had an additional release in September, probably due to the delayed launch of Big Sur pending the availability of Apple Silicon Macs. So, it would seem, Big Sur is pretty much on schedule If you factor in its late launch. The subsequent version in each case was previewed at the World Wide Developers Conference in Early to mid June and beta tests were in full swing before the July update and most of the beta testers and the bulk of the OS development team had transitioned to the upcoming version. I will not be surprised if are were only five MacOS 11 updates, assuming MacOS 12 makes the normal last week of October, first week of September launch date.

So in essence your adoption decision is driven by the calendar and Apple's carefully orchestrated development/support schedule.

From what I remember:

1. Moved to High Sierra in November 2017.
2. Moved to Mojave in December 2018.
3. Moved to Catalina in January 2020.

Each of those were driven by the compatibility of Tech Tool Pro. And as I have said many times, the time when I finally move to the latest version of the new Mac OS is when all my third party applications are compatible. It just so happens that Tech Tool Pro has always been the last one.

For Big Sur, I am still anticipating sometime in the latter part of January, or possibly February. The "theory" is that SuperDuper! will release a compatible version soon (looks like sometime in January), and Tech Tool Pro will follow thereafter.

Also, although both High Sierra and Mojave were initially released in September (2017 for High Sierra, and 2018 for Mojave), Catalina was not initially released until October 2019, and of course it was November 2020 for Big Sur.

As for Catalina, the May, OS 10.15.5, release was the one that caused issues for SuperDuper! and Carbon Copy Cloner. I'm of the opinion that is the primary reason for the release that came out in July, OS 10.5.6. So possibly there may have only been OS 10.15.5 (was OS 10.15.6). But not 100% sure about that.

Re: Big Sur??
MartyByrde #57365 12/19/20 09:18 PM
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I upgraded to Big Sur today but not without a glitch. I successfully downloaded the upgrade via Software Update but when I ran it, I got a window with no progress bar but nevertheless had an estimate of time remaining to prepare the hard drive. Eventually, it had a message that it was quitting open apps and waiting to restart; this never happened. The computer then went to sleep according to my Energy Saver preferences. I woke the computer, quit Installer, and restarted. Then I ran Installer again, and this time, all went well except that the initial Big Sur screen was faded, and I had to click in the window to make it appear normal. (Naturally, I had updated two clones of Catalina beforehand.)

I will have to get used to the new appearance of Mail and Safari which, initially, I don't like. My wife will issue lots of complaints so I'm bracing for her wrath. My printer software had, for no apparent reason, reverted to Airprint, which I do not want. Consequently, I reset the printing system and reinstalled the Epson driver. I had to redo my presets, but that wasn't a big deal.

Last edited by jchuzi; 12/20/20 12:03 AM.

Jon

macOS 11.7.10, iMac Retina 5K 27-inch, late 2014, 3.5 GHz Intel Core i5, 1 TB fusion drive, 16 GB RAM, Epson SureColor P600, Photoshop CC, Lightroom CC, MS Office 365
Re: Big Sur??
jchuzi #57367 12/20/20 12:25 AM
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Originally Posted by jchuzi
I upgraded to Big Sur today but not without a glitch. I successfully downloaded the upgrade via Software Update but when I ran it, I got a window with no progress bar but nevertheless had an estimate of time remaining to prepare the hard drive. Eventually, it had a message that it was quitting open apps and waiting to restart; this never happened. The computer then went to sleep according to my Energy Saver preferences. I woke the computer, quit Installer, and restarted. Then I ran Installer again, and this time, all went well except that the initial Big Sur screen was faded, and I had to click in the window to make it appear normal. (Naturally, I had updated two clones of Catalina beforehand.)

I will have to get used to the new appearance of Mail and Safari which, initially, I don't like. My wife will issue lots of complaints so I'm bracing for her wrath. My printer software had, for no apparent reason, reverted to Airprint, which I do not want. Consequently, I reset the printing system and reinstalled the Epson driver. I had to redo my presets, but that wasn't a big deal.

Sounds good, and glad everything is going fine.

I am continuing to run Big Sur most of the time, and still things are good. The size of the font (default?) in Brave and other browsers, for menu choices and my list of bookmarks, is a little smaller than with Catalina, but I am getting more and more used to it.

The one thing I might have to do, assuming a compatible version of Tech Tool Pro comes and none appears for SuperDuper!, is to switch to Carbon Copy Cloner. Really do not want to do it, as SuperDuper! has always been a stellar performer. But starting to get some doubts about a Big Sur compatible version. Hope I am wrong. We'll see.

Last edited by MartyByrde; 12/20/20 09:48 PM.
Re: Big Sur??
MartyByrde #57368 12/20/20 01:34 AM
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I have been completely satisfied with Carbon Copy Cloner, so I'm sure that it would be more than acceptable to you.


Jon

macOS 11.7.10, iMac Retina 5K 27-inch, late 2014, 3.5 GHz Intel Core i5, 1 TB fusion drive, 16 GB RAM, Epson SureColor P600, Photoshop CC, Lightroom CC, MS Office 365
Re: Big Sur??
MartyByrde #57374 12/20/20 08:36 PM
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Originally Posted by MartyByrde
The size of the font (default?) in Brave and other browsers, for menu choices and my list of bookmarks, is a little smaller than with Catalina, but I am getting more and more used to it.
Marcel Bresink's freeware app Tinkertool has been the standby for adjusting font and other settings since Mac OS X 10.0 and the current version is fully compatible with MacOS 11. I also found tweaking some of the Accessibility and Display settings in System Preferences can make a huge improvement.


If we knew what it was we were doing, it wouldn't be called research, would it?

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Re: Big Sur??
jchuzi #57376 12/20/20 09:27 PM
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Originally Posted by jchuzi
I have been completely satisfied with Carbon Copy Cloner, so I'm sure that it would be more than acceptable to you.

Understand, and thanks. I am well aware that Carbon Copy Cloner (CCC) is an excellent program, and is good at what it does. SuperDuper! (SD) is very, very similar. In a recent EMail exchange I had with Dave Nanian (the developer of SD), he praised CCC.

Last edited by MartyByrde; 12/20/20 09:28 PM.
Re: Big Sur??
joemikeb #57377 12/20/20 09:52 PM
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Originally Posted by joemikeb
Originally Posted by MartyByrde
The size of the font (default?) in Brave and other browsers, for menu choices and my list of bookmarks, is a little smaller than with Catalina, but I am getting more and more used to it.
Marcel Bresink's freeware app Tinkertool has been the standby for adjusting font and other settings since Mac OS X 10.0 and the current version is fully compatible with MacOS 11. I also found tweaking some of the Accessibility and Display settings in System Preferences can make a huge improvement.
Thanks for that, Joe. I used Accessibility to increase contrast and it makes a welcome difference. I hope that this setting does not affect my display calibration with i1Profiler.


Jon

macOS 11.7.10, iMac Retina 5K 27-inch, late 2014, 3.5 GHz Intel Core i5, 1 TB fusion drive, 16 GB RAM, Epson SureColor P600, Photoshop CC, Lightroom CC, MS Office 365
Re: Big Sur??
jchuzi #57378 12/20/20 10:23 PM
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Originally Posted by jchuzi
Thanks for that, Joe. I used Accessibility to increase contrast and it makes a welcome difference. I hope that this setting does not affect my display calibration with i1Profiler.
During the initialization routine after installing Big Sur I discovered, all right Apple shoved them in my face, several Display features that have made a significant improvement in how quickly I find and pickup on thing on the green including:
  • Increased contrast
  • Differentiate without color
  • Reduced transparency
  • Shake Mouse pointer to locate
  • Caption set settings

Since then I have been able to reduce cursor and font sizes and turn down the brightness settings on my monitors, have less need for my computer glasses with their tinted lenses, and have significant less eyestrain. 👀 Even my opthomologist noticed the difference during my recent annual exam.


If we knew what it was we were doing, it wouldn't be called research, would it?

— Albert Einstein
Re: Big Sur??
joemikeb #57380 12/21/20 12:03 PM
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It came as a surprise although I should have expected it: Pacifist can't open Install macOS Big Sur.app; the Catalina installer was the last one it could open.

(I assume it will continue to work with .dmg Deltas and Combos, but I couldn't test with the macOS 11.1 Delta because it doesn't appear on Apple's Downloads page. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ )


The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire
Re: Big Sur??
jchuzi #57382 12/21/20 04:02 PM
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Originally Posted by jchuzi
I used Accessibility to increase contrast and it makes a welcome difference. I hope that this setting does not affect my display calibration with i1Profiler.
As an experiment, I launched Photoshop and opened a photo. I then toggled "increase contrast" off and on; there was no discernible difference.


Jon

macOS 11.7.10, iMac Retina 5K 27-inch, late 2014, 3.5 GHz Intel Core i5, 1 TB fusion drive, 16 GB RAM, Epson SureColor P600, Photoshop CC, Lightroom CC, MS Office 365
Re: Big Sur??
artie505 #57384 12/21/20 06:09 PM
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Originally Posted by artie505
It came as a surprise although I should have expected it: Pacifist can't open Install macOS Big Sur.app; the Catalina installer was the last one it could open.

(I assume it will continue to work with .dmg Deltas and Combos, but I couldn't test with the macOS 11.1 Delta because it doesn't appear on Apple's Downloads page. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ )

According to this article there will be no more standalone installers for Big Sur.


On a Mac since 1984.
Currently: 24" M1 iMac, M2 Pro Mac mini with 27" BenQ monitor, M2 Macbook Air, MacOS 14.x; iPhones, iPods (yes, still) and iPads.
Re: Big Sur??
Ira L #57385 12/21/20 06:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Ira L
Originally Posted by artie505
It came as a surprise although I should have expected it: Pacifist can't open Install macOS Big Sur.app; the Catalina installer was the last one it could open.

(I assume it will continue to work with .dmg Deltas and Combos, but I couldn't test with the macOS 11.1 Delta because it doesn't appear on Apple's Downloads page. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ )

According to this article there will be no more standalone installers for Big Sur.

Yuk! So does that mean there will no longer be any Combo Installers that I can download and apply myself? That's not good.

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