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Re: First Look At Big Sur
joemikeb #56829 11/11/20 12:17 AM
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Originally Posted by joemikeb
...Apple is offfering what appear to be VERY generous trade-ins for the new models with Apple silicon.
I looked into it, and they offered me $1,260 for the refurbished MacBook Pro [(16-inch, 2019)/2.6 GHz 6-Core Intel Core i7/512 GB SSD/16 GB RAM] I purchased in May for $2,039.

That's $61 more than what a bottom of the line 13" MBP with an Apple M1 chip would cost me. (AppleCare costs an additional $269.)


The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire
Re: First Look At Big Sur
artie505 #56830 11/11/20 12:30 AM
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Originally Posted by artie505
Originally Posted by joemikeb
...Apple is offfering what appear to be VERY generous trade-ins for the new models with Apple silicon.
I looked into it, and they offered me $1,260 for the refurbished MacBook Pro [(16-inch, 2019)/2.6 GHz 6-Core Intel Core i7/512 GB SSD/16 GB RAM] I purchased in May for $2,039.

That's $61 more than what a bottom of the line 13" MBP with an Apple M1 chip would cost me. (AppleCare costs an additional $269.)

artie505,

Can you provide the link for this? I tried to find it, but no luck. Thanks!

Re: First Look At Big Sur
MartyByrde #56831 11/11/20 12:35 AM
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Can't find a specific link.

I just selected the MBP I wanted, and somewhere along the line a link turned up. It wasn't "in your face."


The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire
Re: First Look At Big Sur
artie505 #56832 11/11/20 12:44 AM
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Originally Posted by artie505
Can't find a specific link.

I just selected the MBP I wanted, and somewhere along the line a link turned up. It wasn't "in your face."

I actually found it, but my 2017 Mac Book Air apparently cannot be traded in for a Silicon MacBook Air.

Oh well, no rush. Maybe I can try and sell it on my own.

Re: First Look At Big Sur
artie505 #56833 11/11/20 03:12 AM
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I should have mentioned that the newest basic Intel machines are loaded with (at the least) 512 GB SSDs and 16 GB RAM, and cost $500 more than the basic Apple M1 machines (256 GB/8 GB).

Apple is obviously trying to drive sales of the M1s...in more ways than one...

Originally Posted by joemikeb
NOW I UNDERSTAND

I had noticed the MacOS 11.0.1 betas were noticeably slower waking up from sleep and in the initial launch of an app. After. watching today’s event, I realized that Big Sur has been so highly optimized for Apple Silicon it apparently de-optimized some operations for Intel based macs. Be that as it may, I remain more than satisfied with Big Sur’s performance on my Intel based, Mac mini.

Last edited by artie505; 11/11/20 08:41 AM. Reason: Add quote

The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire
Re: First Look At Big Sur
artie505 #56834 11/11/20 07:31 PM
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I am typing this on my iPad as the second Big Sur release candidate is installing on my Mac mini.

FYI there is an additional 10% price reduction on the new SoC models if you are active military, veteran, school teacher, or first responder.

Last edited by joemikeb; 11/11/20 07:33 PM.

If we knew what it was we were doing, it wouldn't be called research, would it?

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Re: First Look At Big Sur
joemikeb #56836 11/11/20 09:30 PM
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Originally Posted by joemikeb
I am typing this on my iPad as the second Big Sur release candidate is installing on my Mac mini.

FYI there is an additional 10% price reduction on the new SoC models if you are active military, veteran, school teacher, or first responder.

I am a Veteran, but not ready to purchase one yet. Thanks for passing that along.

Re: First Look At Big Sur
joemikeb #56837 11/12/20 07:51 AM
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Originally Posted by joemikeb
I am typing this on my iPad as the second Big Sur release candidate is installing on my Mac mini.

FYI there is an additional 10% price reduction on the new SoC models if you are active military, veteran, school teacher, or first responder.
There aren't any refurbs yet, but let's not forget that they'll be available relatively soon.


The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire
Re: First Look At Big Sur
artie505 #56838 11/12/20 11:47 AM
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Jon

macOS 11.7.10, iMac Retina 5K 27-inch, late 2014, 3.5 GHz Intel Core i5, 1 TB fusion drive, 16 GB RAM, Epson SureColor P600, Photoshop CC, Lightroom CC, MS Office 365
Re: First Look At Big Sur
artie505 #56840 11/12/20 04:11 PM
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Originally Posted by artie505
There aren't any refurbs yet, but let's not forget that they'll be available relatively soon.
That is an interesting thought. How do you refurb a computer when the whole thing is on a single chip? Buff out a scratch on the case? Open up the case take everything out and put in a new SoC? It would appear most repairs would involve replacing the entire SoC and therefore expensive. When you buy, don't forget AppleCare — while it is less likely you will need it, if you do need it you will really need it. IIRC AppleCare for the M1 MacBook is $269 if paid in full up front.


If we knew what it was we were doing, it wouldn't be called research, would it?

— Albert Einstein
Re: First Look At Big Sur
joemikeb #56842 11/12/20 06:40 PM
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Originally Posted by joemikeb
That is an interesting thought. How do you refurb a computer when the whole thing is on a single chip? Buff out a scratch on the case? Open up the case take everything out and put in a new SoC? It would appear most repairs would involve replacing the entire SoC and therefore expensive. When you buy, don't forget AppleCare — while it is less likely you will need it, if you do need it you will really need it. IIRC AppleCare for the M1 MacBook is $269 if paid in full up front.

According to MacWorld: "AppleCare+ is available for the Mac mini for $99, which extends the standard one-year warranty to three years." No moving parts, no monitor and maybe like joemikeb says, they only have to replace one chip if something goes wrong.


On a Mac since 1984.
Currently: 24" M1 iMac, M2 Pro Mac mini with 27" BenQ monitor, M2 Macbook Air, MacOS 14.x; iPhones, iPods (yes, still) and iPads.
Re: First Look At Big Sur
artie505 #56843 11/12/20 06:46 PM
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Just in from CCC:
Quote
CCC can now make bootable backups of a Big Sur startup disk. In macOS 11.0.1, Apple addressed some of the problems with its APFS replication utility that rendered clones of the System volume non-bootable. If you have an existing backup task that's configured for a Data Volume backup, simply click on the Source selector and choose "Choose a different source", then select your Big Sur startup disk as the source to the task.


The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire
Re: First Look At Big Sur
Ira L #56844 11/12/20 07:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Ira L
[quote=joemikeb]According to MacWorld: "AppleCare+ is available for the Mac mini for $99, which extends the standard one-year warranty to three years." No moving parts, no monitor and maybe like joemikeb says, they only have to replace one chip if something goes wrong.
…and unlike the MacBook and MacBook Pro the Mac mini is no keyboard, monitor, or battery that has to be covered by AppleCare. One downside to the M1 Mac mini compared to the 2018 version is the loss of two Thunderbolt ports and the USB A ports are USB 3.0 not 3.1 Gen 2. 😳 OWC's Thunderbolt 4 Hub adds $150 to the price of the mini and isn't shipping yet.


If we knew what it was we were doing, it wouldn't be called research, would it?

— Albert Einstein
Re: First Look At Big Sur
artie505 #56846 11/12/20 10:28 PM
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Originally Posted by artie505
Just in from CCC:
Quote
CCC can now make bootable backups of a Big Sur startup disk. In macOS 11.0.1, Apple addressed some of the problems with its APFS replication utility that rendered clones of the System volume non-bootable. If you have an existing backup task that's configured for a Data Volume backup, simply click on the Source selector and choose "Choose a different source", then select your Big Sur startup disk as the source to the task.
TESTBED:[/I]
  • 2018 Mac mini, 3.2 GHz i7, 32GB RAM
  • MacOS 11.0.1 release candidate 2
  • Carbon Copy Cloner


[b]PROCEDURE:

  1. I FOLLOWED INSTRUCTIONS IN THE QUOTE TO THE LETTER: this appeared to work, and was bootable, but it only cloned the Data volume and left the system at a previous version of Big Sur. 👎
  2. UPDATED CCC: For some reason CCC had failed to alert me there was any update, as it normally does. Updating took several attempts, including a reboot, restoring CCC from Time Machine, and more pinwheels than I have seen cumulatively over the past two years.
  3. RE-ATTEMPTED THE CLONE during this process I once again was regaled with lots of spinning pinwheels, multiple requests to install the CCC Helper application, and even more and longer periods where it was impossible to determine what, if anything was happening, including an interminable wait (11 minutes +) for the tasks to load. Once all that finally completed the process worked really well. It only took 9:57 to clone 319.3 GB and create a bootable clone of both the system and data. 🎉👍👏👌😄

NOTES:
  • If you have used CCC's or Tinkertool Systems Full Clone{/I] you will recognize the process (I believe Super Duper's developer rejected offering that option)
  • The target drive will always be completely erased. You must approve the erasure before CCC will proceed. (I haven't had time find out how that happens with automated clones.)
  • The drives entire volume structure is first copied and then everything else is transferred [i]en mass without regard to files and folders per se. The target becomes a true mirror of the source, warts, winkles, and all.
  • I have no explanation for my initial installation and startup difficulties but I have no reason to believe they represent any issue with CCC and hopefully not with macOS 11.0.1 running on Intel instead of Apple SoC. I will not hesitate to use or rely on CCC in the future and look forward to using it on Apple SoC next week.
  • Obviously I misjudged the priority Apple assigned to cloning.😢


If we knew what it was we were doing, it wouldn't be called research, would it?

— Albert Einstein
Re: First Look At Big Sur
joemikeb #56847 11/13/20 03:35 AM
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Excellent report, joemikeb! And especially useful for me, as I have a Core I5 Late 2018 Mac MIni with a 256 gig SSD and 8 gig of Ram.

Here is what Dave Nanian stated about SuperDuper! yesterday:

"I'm going to keep this short and to the point.

It's never a good idea to update to a just-released major OS version unless you have to. Nobody knows how reliable Big Sur is going to be for regular users. Let someone else find out before you take the jump.

On our end, SuperDuper! will not be compatible with Big Sur on day of release.

As I indicated on twitter, the first time we were able to make a successful bootable copy of Big Sur at all was November 5th. As of this writing, that was six days ago.

Until that point, it wasn't possible.

So, it's going to be a while. Until then, if you must move to Big Sur, use Time Machine."

That second sentence about never a good idea etc., is so, so accurate. And of course besides questions of reliability, 1) the first few versions of a new Mac OS always contain bugs, and 2) there are still some other third party applications that are not compatible yet. And for me, there are 5 of them, including SuperDuper!. (On another Mac discussion site a visit, a user did state that the latest version of LibreOffice (I have it) is compatible with Big Sur).

From the last few prior releases of the Mac OS, it seems that Onyx and SuperDuper! were finally compatible with the ".2" version. Not sure about Thunderbird, but as folks know (and I've mentioned before), Tech Tool Pro has always been the last one. Suspect it will be the same with Big Sur.

I definitely have no issues with waiting. I do hope, though, to test Big Sur when at least V11.1.x comes out. I have a brand new Samsung 1 TB T7 SSD on the way, and it will be arriving early next week. Will use it to test Big Sur (along with storing other items).

Last edited by MartyByrde; 11/13/20 03:39 AM.
Re: First Look At Big Sur
joemikeb #56850 11/13/20 08:15 AM
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There may be some sort of compatibility issue with CCC and Big Sur, because my update notice popped up as expected in Catalina, and installation was quick and seamless.

I wonder if I'll once again be able to clone my boot volume to another volume in the same container now that Full Volume Clone is back in some capacity.


The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire
Re: First Look At Big Sur
jchuzi #56851 11/13/20 08:21 AM
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Thanks for that link, Jon. I've saved it for future reference.

What with Apple repurchasing used Macs, the buying process has become complicated, because to find your optimum $ situation you've got to balance out cost new, cost refurb, Apple buyback, eBay sale, and third party discount options.


The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire
Re: First Look At Big Sur
MartyByrde #56852 11/13/20 08:32 AM
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Originally Posted by MartyByrde
Here is what Dave Nanian stated about SuperDuper! yesterday:

"I'm going to keep this short and to the point.

It's never a good idea to update to a just-released major OS version unless you have to. Nobody knows how reliable Big Sur is going to be for regular users. Let someone else find out before you take the jump.

That caveat may be considered a bit dated, because recent macOS upgrades have been rigorously tested by "someone else," i.e. joemike and myriad other beta testers, before we "regular users" have been able to get our hands on them.

I can't remember the last time I waited before upgrading, and similarly, I can't remember the last time I or others regretted not having waited.

Old habits die hard but, Apple has become a capable executioner.


The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire
Re: First Look At Big Sur
artie505 #56867 11/13/20 06:58 PM
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BIG SUR HAS OPENED THE FLOODGATES

In the last thirty hours 31 32 33 of my App Store apps have automatically been updated to universal code. this ranges from very complex apps such as the Affinity suite of graphics apps to Safari extensions like WIPR from developers all over the world. It looks as if conversion from Intel to Apple SoC is as easy as Apple claimed it would be and the M1 Macs won't have a significant need for Rosetta. This portends a smooth transition to the new silicone 🥳, and a few years of larger than usual application packages. 😩


If we knew what it was we were doing, it wouldn't be called research, would it?

— Albert Einstein
Re: First Look At Big Sur
joemikeb #56870 11/13/20 07:17 PM
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Originally Posted by joemikeb
BIG SUR HAS OPENED THE FLOODGATES

In the last thirty hours 31 32 33 of my App Store apps have automatically been updated to universal code. this ranges from very complex apps such as the Affinity suite of graphics apps to Safari extensions like WIPR from developers all over the world. It looks as if conversion from Intel to Apple SoC is as easy as Apple claimed it would be and the M1 Macs won't have a significant need for Rosetta. This portends a smooth transition to the new silicone 🥳, and a few years of larger than usual application packages. 😩

Hopefully the same will be true for third party apps.

Re: First Look At Big Sur
MartyByrde #56875 11/13/20 08:58 PM
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Originally Posted by MartyByrde
Originally Posted by joemikeb
BIG SUR HAS OPENED THE FLOODGATES

In the last thirty hours 31 32 33 of my App Store apps have automatically been updated to universal code. this ranges from very complex apps such as the Affinity suite of graphics apps to Safari extensions like WIPR from developers all over the world. It looks as if conversion from Intel to Apple SoC is as easy as Apple claimed it would be and the M1 Macs won't have a significant need for Rosetta. This portends a smooth transition to the new silicone 🥳, and a few years of larger than usual application packages. 😩

Hopefully the same will be true for third party apps.
If the number of new updates on MacUpdate is any indication (as it usually is when an OS upgrade is issued), it already has.


The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire
Re: First Look At Big Sur
artie505 #56881 11/13/20 09:30 PM
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Originally Posted by artie505
Originally Posted by MartyByrde
Originally Posted by joemikeb
BIG SUR HAS OPENED THE FLOODGATES

In the last thirty hours 31 32 33 of my App Store apps have automatically been updated to universal code. this ranges from very complex apps such as the Affinity suite of graphics apps to Safari extensions like WIPR from developers all over the world. It looks as if conversion from Intel to Apple SoC is as easy as Apple claimed it would be and the M1 Macs won't have a significant need for Rosetta. This portends a smooth transition to the new silicone 🥳, and a few years of larger than usual application packages. 😩

Hopefully the same will be true for third party apps.
If the number of new updates on MacUpdate is any indication (as it usually is when an OS upgrade is issued), it already has.

Yeah, the number of updates there have been increasing, but possibly not all of them are for Big Sur compatibility. For example, there was an update for Thunderbird earlier today (I use it), but still no indication that it is compatible with Big Sur (yet). Probably a little to early.

Last edited by MartyByrde; 11/13/20 09:30 PM.
Re: First Look At Big Sur
MartyByrde #56882 11/13/20 10:38 PM
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Originally Posted by MartyByrde
Originally Posted by joemikeb
BIG SUR HAS OPENED THE FLOODGATES

In the last thirty hours 31 32 33 of my App Store apps have automatically been updated to universal code. this ranges from very complex apps such as the Affinity suite of graphics apps to Safari extensions like WIPR from developers all over the world. It looks as if conversion from Intel to Apple SoC is as easy as Apple claimed it would be and the M1 Macs won't have a significant need for Rosetta. This portends a smooth transition to the new silicone 🥳, and a few years of larger than usual application packages. 😩

Hopefully the same will be true for third party apps.
The majority of the App Store apps are third party, and Since posting that, I have bee hit with a swarm of non-app store updates to universal code.


If we knew what it was we were doing, it wouldn't be called research, would it?

— Albert Einstein
Re: First Look At Big Sur
MartyByrde #56883 11/13/20 11:23 PM
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Originally Posted by MartyByrde
Yeah, the number of updates there have been increasing, but possibly not all of them are for Big Sur compatibility. For example, there was an update for Thunderbird earlier today (I use it), but still no indication that it is compatible with Big Sur (yet). Probably a little to early.
Actually I was quite surprised to find several of my apps, with no fanfare, been updated to universal code months ago. The only way to tell is to Get Info on the app as seen in this screenshot or download ArchiChect and drop the app onto that.


If we knew what it was we were doing, it wouldn't be called research, would it?

— Albert Einstein
Re: First Look At Big Sur
joemikeb #56887 11/14/20 12:43 AM
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I guess "Universal" doesn't show unless you're running Big Sur.

I'm running BBEdit 13.5.2, which is a more recent release than your 13.5.1, in Catalina, and I don't see "Universal" in a Get Info pane.


The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire
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