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So many things wrong!
#55697 08/14/20 06:34 PM
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Where do I start? I kept getting that disk full message. I finally used an app called Cleaner-app.app which had high reviews in the app store. It worked great and I got rid of 13 gigabytes of stuff. Before that I decided to run OnyX. It's never done me wrong before but after running it I can no longer use Spotlight and "all my files" in Finder are missing! Terminal doesn't act right either. Here is what it did when I tried to enter some commands to get Spotlight to work. The commands are:

1. Open Terminal
2. Type – not copy! – the following but wait a few second between them:
sudo mdutil -i off /
sudo mdutil -i on /
sudo mdutil -E /
If, after a few minutes, spotlight is still not indexing, try running this command, followed by the three commands above:
sudo rm -rf /.Spotlight-V100

****

Below is the error message, plus it wouldn't let me put in my password between commands. It just showed a key icon.

Last login: Fri Aug 14 12:20:49 on ttys001
MacBook-Pro:~ ritamontague$ sudo mdutil -i off/
Password:
Sorry, try again.
Password:
Sorry, try again.
Password:
sudo: 3 incorrect password attempts
MacBook-Pro:~ ritamontague$ reenie
-bash: reenie: command not found
MacBook-Pro:~ ritamontague$ sudo mdutil - off/
Password:
Error: invalid path `-'.
Error: invalid path `off/'.
MacBook-Pro:~ ritamontague$

I'm getting ready to go on vacation, but while there, when I am relaxing, I will try any different suggestions you give me. I have rebooted also to no avail regarding Spotlight and "all my files."

Artie: I returned the phone!!




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Re: So many things wrong!
plantsower #55700 08/14/20 06:59 PM
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From your other post your disk may have 120GB but you have partitioned the drive such that you have at most 49GB available and it is at capacity. Add to that you only have 8GB of RAM so everytime you try to run anything MacOS is trying to create swapfiles for virtual memory and there is no room for the swapfiles therefore not enough Memory for applications to run. Your system is well and truly messed up.

Rather than start another thread I am going back to the original thread and post instructions on the simplest way of recovering. Hopefully you are not so jammed up that the instructions will work.


If we knew what it was we were doing, it wouldn't be called research, would it?

— Albert Einstein
Re: So many things wrong!
joemikeb #55701 08/14/20 07:02 PM
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OK. Looking forward to it. Don't know if you saw the post asking if going to Catalina will take care of all my woes?

Originally Posted By: joemikeb
From your other post your disk may have 120GB but you have partitioned the drive such that you have at most 49GB available and it is at capacity. Add to that you only have 8GB of RAM so everytime you try to run anything MacOS is trying to create swapfiles for virtual memory and there is no room for the swapfiles therefore not enough Memory for applications to run. Your system is well and truly messed up.

Rather than start another thread I am going back to the original thread and post instructions on the simplest way of recovering. Hopefully you are not so jammed up that the instructions will work.


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Re: So many things wrong!
plantsower #55703 08/14/20 07:44 PM
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Your woes are primarily the result of a lack of available Storage created by having three partitions on your internal drive. That lack of storage in turn prevents creating virtual memory swapfiles so you end up having less storage and less memory on a system that is already at, or near, the acceptable minimums of both. The first thing that must be done is freeing up storage space so Sierra can run. Once that is taken care of, you can upgrade to Catalina if you wish, but Catalina will NOT solve the storage constraint issues created by all your partitions.


If we knew what it was we were doing, it wouldn't be called research, would it?

— Albert Einstein
Re: So many things wrong!
joemikeb #55705 08/14/20 08:04 PM
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Right. I assume if I follow instructions in post above, all will be well. I may have questions as I go. It will be a few days.

Originally Posted By: joemikeb
Your woes are primarily the result of a lack of available Storage created by having three partitions on your internal drive. That lack of storage in turn prevents creating virtual memory swapfiles so you end up having less storage and less memory on a system that is already at, or near, the acceptable minimums of both. The first thing that must be done is freeing up storage space so Sierra can run. Once that is taken care of, you can upgrade to Catalina if you wish, but Catalina will NOT solve the storage constraint issues created by all your partitions.


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Re: So many things wrong!
plantsower #55718 08/15/20 07:35 AM
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Originally Posted By: plantsower
Where do I start? I kept getting that disk full message. I finally used an app called Cleaner-app.app which had high reviews in the app store. It worked great and I got rid of 13 gigabytes of stuff. Before that I decided to run OnyX. It's never done me wrong before but after running it I can no longer use Spotlight and "all my files" in Finder are missing! Terminal doesn't act right either. Here is what it did when I tried to enter some commands to get Spotlight to work. The commands are:

1. Open Terminal
2. Type – not copy! – the following but wait a few second between them:
sudo mdutil -i off /
sudo mdutil -i on /
sudo mdutil -E /
If, after a few minutes, spotlight is still not indexing, try running this command, followed by the three commands above:
sudo rm -rf /.Spotlight-V100

****

Below is the error message, plus it wouldn't let me put in my password between commands. It just showed a key icon.

Last login: Fri Aug 14 12:20:49 on ttys001
MacBook-Pro:~ ritamontague$ sudo mdutil -i off/
Password:
Sorry, try again.
Password:
Sorry, try again.
Password:
sudo: 3 incorrect password attempts
MacBook-Pro:~ ritamontague$ reenie
-bash: reenie: command not found
MacBook-Pro:~ ritamontague$ sudo mdutil - off/
Password:
Error: invalid path `-'.
Error: invalid path `off/'.

MacBook-Pro:~ ritamontague$

Artie: I returned the phone!!

Responding to the text I've colored red...

1. 13 GB is an awful lot of stuff when your entire installation is only about 40 GB. Did you examine it carefully before you allowed your app to trash it? (Out of curiosity, what was it?)

2. Is "all my files" really missing (See 1. immediately above.), or is it just the alias in your Finder sidebar (as per my post regarding 2015 Sierra on your external) that's gone?

3. As I"ve outlined below, Terminal is acting as expected.

4. "Type – not copy!" ??? Whoever posted those commands is an absolute MORON!

We always post Terminal commands with the caveat "Copy & paste, DON'T type," and, as per below, you've given us a classic demonstration of WHY. A mistyped Terminal command can trash your installation if it's mistyped correctly.

5. When you enter multiple "sudo" commands one after the other, Terminal only asks for your password the first time, and you should see the key icon only that one time unless you mistype it...which you did...3 times, aparently.

6. The first time you entered the "off" command you entered "sudo mdutil -i off/" when the command you posted is "sudo mdutil -i off /", i.e. a space after "off." The second time you omitted the "i" and the space.

7. On that final attempt you got your password right, but Terminal returned errors because you entered the command incorrectly.

8. Wise decision, I think. You shouldn't have to troubleshoot an iPhone right out of the box unless you bought it subject to a caveat. I hope it didn't cost you return shipping.


The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire
Re: So many things wrong!
artie505 #55722 08/15/20 04:37 PM
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Rita,

Please don't take offense at this, but unless you really know what you are doing, you should not be using any Terminal commands. As Artie has eloquently stated a single misplaced character can easily wipe out your entire system. I have over thirty years of experience as a Software Design Engineer and I only use Terminal commands with great reluctance. There is very little you would ever need to do that cannot be done with safely with tools such as OnyX, TinkerTool, TinkerTool System, or MacPilot.

You are trying to solve your problem, but you don't appear to understand the implications of your actions and as a result you may be doing more harm than good. We are trying to help you, but it takes time and patience on your part to solve all the issues that have been created. Please bear with us and take things one step at a time. I have posed a set of questions you need to answer in your other thread and with those answers I am confident I can construct a set of instructions that will get you up and running normally. Whether the files you have deleted are recoverable or not is an open question. But please take things one at a time.


If we knew what it was we were doing, it wouldn't be called research, would it?

— Albert Einstein
Re: So many things wrong!
joemikeb #55723 08/15/20 05:19 PM
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And speaking of the devil, I didn't notice it earlier, but it's a good thing Rita gave up in Terminal before she got to "sudo rm -rf /.Spotlight-V100"

Have you ever run sudo rm/ to see what actually happens?


The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire
Re: So many things wrong!
artie505 #55726 08/15/20 09:51 PM
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Originally Posted By: artie505
And speaking of the devil, I didn't notice it earlier, but it's a good thing Rita gave up in Terminal before she got to "sudo rm -rf /.Spotlight-V100"

Have you ever run sudo rm/ to see what actually happens?

You mean like it erases each and every file in the system? I have never done it myself, and I am not about to test it on my system. Some commands should have an additional "are you REALLY sure?" checkbox, but they don't.

NEW THOUGHT: Given the entire system volume in Catalina is Read-Only (and even more so in Big Sur) I wonder if sudo rm/ could erase the system files or if it would just erase the user files? If I ever figure out how to create a Big Sur clone, I may have to test that out -- just out of curiosity.

Last edited by joemikeb; 08/15/20 09:59 PM. Reason: New Thought

If we knew what it was we were doing, it wouldn't be called research, would it?

— Albert Einstein
Re: So many things wrong!
joemikeb #55727 08/15/20 09:59 PM
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Originally Posted By: joemikeb
Originally Posted By: artie505
And speaking of the devil, I didn't notice it earlier, but it's a good thing Rita gave up in Terminal before she got to "sudo rm -rf /.Spotlight-V100"

Have you ever run sudo rm/ to see what actually happens?

You mean like it erases each and every file in the system? I have never done it myself, and I am not about to test it on my system. Some commands should have an additional "are you REALLY sure?" checkbox, but they don't.

I've actually been curious about it for a while, and I'm going to create a new clone just to test it.

Too bad I never got around to it before, because it would be interesting to see how it plays out with APFS as opposed to HFS+.

It can't erase each and every file in the system, so it will still be interesting to see what point it reaches before it quits because it can't erase itself.


The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire
Re: So many things wrong!
artie505 #55728 08/15/20 10:02 PM
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Originally Posted By: artie505
I've actually been curious about it for a while, and I'm going to create a new clone just to test it.

Too bad I never got around to it before, because it would be interesting to see how it plays out with APFS as opposed to HFS+.

It can't erase each and every file in the system, so it will still be interesting to see what point it reaches before it quits because it can't erase itself.

😀 Great minds! 😉👍

By-the-way since the rm command is running in memory there is nothing to prevent it from erasing every file from the VOLUME ROOT which is not the same as the DRIVE ROOT and I believe you will find the actual Unix definition of / is the volume root and not necessarily the physical drive root. It gets confusing because for many years the two were used synonymously. It is only with modern file systems such as APFS the distinction becomes important, but Apple has used the term Volume in the newer sense for a good while now, possibly in anticipation of APFS.

Last edited by joemikeb; 08/15/20 10:14 PM. Reason: by-the-way

If we knew what it was we were doing, it wouldn't be called research, would it?

— Albert Einstein
Re: So many things wrong!
joemikeb #55731 08/15/20 10:10 PM
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Don't worry. I don't take offense. I know more than anyone how much I don't know. I like to venture out and take care of things myself, but I guess it's not always a good idea. I am surprised Apple makes it so easy for people to use Terminal if it's so persnickety and could cause so many problems. I'd say most of the average users don't really know what they are doing and probably shouldn't have access to something like that, at least not without a warning.
Originally Posted By: joemikeb
Rita,



Please don't take offense at this, but unless you really know what you are doing, you should not be using any Terminal commands. As Artie has eloquently stated a single misplaced character can easily wipe out your entire system. I have over thirty years of experience as a Software Design Engineer and I only use Terminal commands with great reluctance. There is very little you would ever need to do that cannot be done with safely with tools such as OnyX, TinkerTool, TinkerTool System, or MacPilot.

You are trying to solve your problem, but you don't appear to understand the implications of your actions and as a result you may be doing more harm than good. We are trying to help you, but it takes time and patience on your part to solve all the issues that have been created. Please bear with us and take things one step at a time. I have posed a set of questions you need to answer in your other thread and with those answers I am confident I can construct a set of instructions that will get you up and running normally. Whether the files you have deleted are recoverable or not is an open question. But please take things one at a time.


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Re: So many things wrong!
plantsower #55732 08/15/20 10:15 PM
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Originally Posted By: plantsower
I am surprised Apple makes it so easy for people to use Terminal if it's so persnickety and could cause so many problems. I'd say most of the average users don't really know what they are doing and probably shouldn't have access to something like that, at least not without a warning.

Actually, a pretty strong warning comes up either the first time you launch Terminal or the first time you try to run a "sudo" command (the latter, I think), but once you blow past it it never comes up again. (Note: A "sudo" command is one you must enter your password for because it runs as Admin.)

Enjoy your vacation. smile


The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire
Re: So many things wrong!
artie505 #55733 08/15/20 10:36 PM
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I don't remember that at all, but it's been a lot of years!


Originally Posted By: artie505
Originally Posted By: plantsower
I am surprised Apple makes it so easy for people to use Terminal if it's so persnickety and could cause so many problems. I'd say most of the average users don't really know what they are doing and probably shouldn't have access to something like that, at least not without a warning.

Actually, a pretty strong warning comes up either the first time you launch Terminal or the first time you try to run a "sudo" command (the latter, I think), but once you blow past it it never comes up again. (Note: A "sudo" command is one you must enter your password for because it runs as Admin.)

Enjoy your vacation. smile


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Re: So many things wrong!
joemikeb #55736 08/16/20 05:49 AM
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Originally Posted By: joemikeb
Originally Posted By: artie505
I've actually been curious about it for a while, and I'm going to create a new clone just to test it.

Too bad I never got around to it before, because it would be interesting to see how it plays out with APFS as opposed to HFS+.

It can't erase each and every file in the system, so it will still be interesting to see what point it reaches before it quits because it can't erase itself.

😀 Great minds! 😉👍

So I created a new clone for the express purpose of seeing how much of its tail it would swallow...and it spit it out.

I immediately learned that somewhere along the line, something has changed, and the "sudo rm/" command I intended to run no longer runs.

As you can see here, "rm" will no longer run without a following space, and the "rm" man page hasn't changed since January 28, 1999, so I guess Apple has tweaked Terminal?

I finally got "sudo rm /" to run, but after 2 hours of seeing absolutely no indication in Activity Monitor that anything was happening I terminated the process with control-C and found that I could restart into the clone with zero problems, nor could I find any indication that the command had run.

So while I didn't learn what I had hoped to learn, I did learn that the "rm booby trap" has been deactivated.

Is there something I didn't think to try that I should have thought of?


The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire
Re: So many things wrong!
artie505 #55737 08/16/20 12:47 PM
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It may be that the command still works, but Catalina, and by extension Big Sur, is blocking access to the volume root which results a hang rather than a fail. Try
Code:
 sudo rm ~/ 
That should prove whether or not the rm command itself still works.


If we knew what it was we were doing, it wouldn't be called research, would it?

— Albert Einstein
Re: So many things wrong!
artie505 #55739 08/16/20 02:40 PM
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Quote:
"sudo rm/"

...and don't forget that the command needs a SPACE before the "/" to be properly formatted otherwise it won't be a valid unix command.

i.,e., - "sudo rm /"


Freedom is never free....thank a Service member today.
Re: So many things wrong!
joemikeb #56694 10/30/20 01:39 AM
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Originally Posted by joemikeb
It may be that the command still works, but Catalina, and by extension Big Sur, is blocking access to the volume root which results a hang rather than a fail. Try
Code
 sudo rm ~/ 
That should prove whether or not the rm command itself still works.
Sorry for losing this in my bookmarks bar.

"rm" still works, but it, of course, doesn't work on read-only volumes.


The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire
Re: So many things wrong!
MacManiac #56695 10/30/20 01:46 AM
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Originally Posted by MacManiac
Quote
"sudo rm/"
...and don't forget that the command needs a SPACE before the "/" to be properly formatted otherwise it won't be a valid unix command.

i.,e., - "sudo rm /"
Sorry for losing this in my bookmarks bar.

Maybe my memory is faulty, but I remember having had to post a caveat at one time to ensure that people entered a space after the / or they'd rm their boot volume.

My experiment was intended to see just how much of itself the OS would eat, but I forgot that I was experimenting on a read-only volume.

The experiment will work only in Mojave or earlier.


The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire

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