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SuperDuper Question
#56469 10/11/20 06:41 PM
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Douglas Offline OP
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I am using OS X 10.15.7 on a new Mac mini. I have SuperDuper 3.3.1. I set SD to copy 'all' files to my external HD. When finished, the external HD shows 30 items in my Application folder but on my Mini there are 65 items in the Applications folder. I erased and copied 2 times with the same result. It's not coping 35 items in my Applications folder. Similar difference with Unilities Folder not copying all the items. It's not just ignoring third party applications as some of those are copied and some not. Also some Apple apps are not copied like Chess & Calculator.

What is going on with SD? Also when I set the external HD as the startup disk it takes like 20 minutes to boot up. This doesn't seem right.

Any enlightenment will be greatly appreciated.

Re: SuperDuper Question
Douglas #56472 10/11/20 07:59 PM
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At this distance, it looks like your external has problems. So, the fault might not lie with SD. 20 minutes to boot up is more than excessive. In the meantime, you could email Dave Nanien at SD with your issue. In my experience, he has been very responsive.


Jon

macOS 10.15.7, iMac Retina 5K 27-inch, late 2014, 3.5 GHz Intel Core i5, 1 TB fusion drive, 16 GB RAM, Epson SureColor P600, Photoshop CC, Lightroom CC, MS Office 365
Re: SuperDuper Question
jchuzi #56473 10/11/20 08:09 PM
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Thanks, will give that a shot.

Re: SuperDuper Question
Douglas #56474 10/11/20 10:10 PM
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Update. Dave at SD was quick and very helpful. For some reason, Apple synthesizes the /Applications folder from two separate folders on two volumes - the Data volume (your stuff) and the System volume (their stuff). So that issue is resolved. Since the new Mini does not have a Firewire port the external HD is connected via USB port which may be a partial reason for the very long boot times.

I'm thinking that it would be more efficient, faster to boot, to buy a flash drive, 256GB, and use that to clone and boot from. Should I get a Thunderbolt flash drive or a usb 3 flash drive? What are major +/- for each? Thanks.

Re: SuperDuper Question
Douglas #56475 10/11/20 10:44 PM
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Thunderbolt 3 is twice as fast at USB 3.1 Gen 2 (also called USB 3.2) and four times faster than USB 3, which pretty well sums up the pros and cons of each. Note too that flash drives are notoriously slow regardless of the interface. You really want soemthing like this or this to get resonable boot times.

Also, consider this in your plans. Mac OS 11 (Big Sur) will be rolling out very shortly and, at least at this juncture, CANNOT BE CLONED using SuperDuper, Carbon Copy Cloner or any other available product, it can only be installed. To be more precise only the data volume can be cloned and that is not bootable and you cannot clone a data volume onto a bootable Mac OS 11 drive and still have it bootable.


joemikeb • moderator
Re: SuperDuper Question
joemikeb #56478 10/12/20 05:11 AM
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Thanks, you saved me some money. No point in buying an external SSD or flash drive if I won't be able to clone my drive with Big Sur. Any idea why Apple is eliminating the abilty to clone a drive?

Re: SuperDuper Question
Douglas #56479 10/12/20 03:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Douglas
Any idea why Apple is eliminating the abilty to clone a drive?
Good question. My suspicious nature makes me wonder if it's a move toward forcing everyone to use iCloud.


ryck

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Re: SuperDuper Question
Douglas #56481 10/12/20 03:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Douglas
Thanks, you saved me some money. No point in buying an external SSD or flash drive if I won't be able to clone my drive with Big Sur. Any idea why Apple is eliminating the abilty to clone a drive?
It can be summed up in a single word, SECURITY. Apple is trying to make the system as bullet proof as possible. Apple may eventually come up with a command line app to create a bootable clone but that will be a trick to create as Big Sur boots from a virtual volume that is stored on the boot drive as a APFS snapshot. The ball is in Apple's court.


joemikeb • moderator
Re: SuperDuper Question
Douglas #56498 10/13/20 07:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Douglas
Update. Dave at SD was quick and very helpful. For some reason, Apple synthesizes the /Applications folder from two separate folders on two volumes - the Data volume (your stuff) and the System volume (their stuff). So that issue is resolved.
Doesn't that contradict "It's not coping 35 items in my Applications folder. Similar difference with Unilities Folder not copying all the items. It's not just ignoring third party applications as some of those are copied and some not. Also some Apple apps are not copied like Chess & Calculator." in your original post?


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Re: SuperDuper Question
artie505 #56502 10/13/20 04:35 PM
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Working with APFS Volume Groups from the Carbon Copy Cloner Knowledge Base explains the underlying APFS structures that are enabling the new OS architectures and if you scroll down to the section on Finder shenanigans with the Applications folder you will find an explanation of how and why the file count varies.

Boot Volume Layouts and Layout of the Catalina Boot Volume Group (both from The Eclectic Light Company) help explain what you are seeing in Catalina as well as answering some of the questions about why there is a big cloning issue in Big Sur and this Apple Developer News article explains the rationale behind the changes in Big Sur. Absorb all of this and you begin to get the full picture of what this all about, how it fits together, and how, through the actions of "firmlinks" the system can contain elements from both the data and system volumes and reaches a zenith in the boot volume in Big Sur which is essentially a "virtual" construct".

Looking at this in total, it appears that implementing any "cloning" ability in Big Sur may have to include installing the boot volume using the MacOS installer, or at least portions thereof. I am not holding my breath waiting for that to appear.


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Re: SuperDuper Question
joemikeb #56504 10/13/20 05:16 PM
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Appreciate the info but it is way about my pay grade. I've used Mac's since 1986 and they just keep getting more and more complicated and unfortunately I keep getting older and older.

Bottom line, I guess, is that I will probably no longer be able to clone my system for backup purposes going forward. It's probably not rational but I don't want all my 'stuff' out there floating around in iCloud or any other remote service. I liked to clone my system in the unlikely occurrence my Mac crashed and that actually happened once quite a number of years ago. With the clone I was up and running with a new Mac in short order.

Re: SuperDuper Question
Douglas #56511 10/13/20 09:58 PM
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Then you need a serious external drive at least 3 to 4 times the capacity of your boot drive, format it MacOS Extended Journaled, and select it as your Time Machine drive in System Preferences > Time Machine. Your disaster recovery is booting from the Recovery Drive (code boot while holding ⌘R until you see a progress bar) then install MacOS and if necessary restore your data from Time Machine. It takes a couple of hours to complete but it is complete, and Time Machine backups are far more flexible than any bootable clone because you can recover files from months even years back easily.

Note speed isn't important with Time Machine drives so you can use inexpensive. bus powered, Hard Drives and enclosures.

Last edited by joemikeb; 10/13/20 10:01 PM. Reason: Note

joemikeb • moderator
Re: SuperDuper Question
Douglas #56512 10/13/20 10:00 PM
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Douglas, starting with an LC and System 6 in 1990 I am with totally with you in almost every respect. Now increasing age and irrationality see me questioning whether it was really worth replacing my perfectly functional 2013 iMac in order to run Big Sur when it arrived!

I have used cloning software for years in case of hardware failure (never happened) or OS update problems (which have, one of them blowing away 6 months of recent Time Machine history). Even if Volume cloning can’t be implemented immediately, it seems to me that it’s the Data volume that’s more important and it looks like that can still be cloned…

Re: SuperDuper Question
andycap #56513 10/13/20 10:03 PM
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[quote=andycap... and it looks like that can still be cloned… [/quote]
It can. But I still prefer a Time Machine backup for its flexibility and ability to keep historical files.


joemikeb • moderator

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