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Re: First Look At Big Sur
joemikeb #56051 09/06/20 06:47 PM
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I hope Artie will forgive my copying his post in another string, but I think it is pertinent in this thread as well.

Originally Posted by artie505
I'm having a LOT of trouble trying to believe that Apple is going to leave us with no way to create a bootable clone. I'm having a LOT of trouble believing that they'd even think of it.

Their mandating an Internet connection for upgrading was bad enough, but at least it only left us potentially unable to upgrade, which is an option rather than a necessity.

How do they expect us to recover when we NEED to recover and we haven't got Internet accessibility?
I have two observations:
  1. After Apple went to the trouble of creating the very useful clone command in Catalina, that CCC and TinkerTool System made use of, the fact it does not work in Big Sur would lead me to believe either Apple doesn't know how to make it work with the new constraints or doesn't know how to make it work without creating unacceptable security vulnerabilities. That doesn't mean the issue can't or won't be solved, but it may take a lot of blood, sweat, tears, coffee, late nights, cold pizza, and time to do so. I don't envy the engineering team that has this on their todo list. It may not be at, or even near, the top of that todo list either as I suspect the vast majority of Mac users don't even know what a clone is. 😳
  2. You haven't been reading the highway signs marking the road for software updates, upgrades, reinstalls, and application installs. The first obvious road sign was the App Store like iOS. The second, a billboard instead of a sign, was the Recovery Drive. MacOS is tail-end Charlie on this. There are thousands of iPhones and dozens of iPads for every Mac and neither has ever had any way of getting software except the internet or cellular. Bringing MacOS and its distribution channels into line with the other ninety percent of Apple products is inevitable.


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Re: First Look At Big Sur
joemikeb #56070 09/07/20 09:09 AM
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Originally Posted by joemikeb
I hope Artie will forgive my copying his post in another string, but I think it is pertinent in this thread as well.

Originally Posted by artie505
I'm having a LOT of trouble trying to believe that Apple is going to leave us with no way to create a bootable clone. I'm having a LOT of trouble believing that they'd even think of it.

Their mandating an Internet connection for upgrading was bad enough, but at least it only left us potentially unable to upgrade, which is an option rather than a necessity.

How do they expect us to recover when we NEED to recover and we haven't got Internet accessibility?
I have two observations:
  1. After Apple went to the trouble of creating the very useful clone command in Catalina, that CCC and TinkerTool System made use of, the fact it does not work in Big Sur would lead me to believe either Apple doesn't know how to make it work with the new constraints or doesn't know how to make it work without creating unacceptable security vulnerabilities. That doesn't mean the issue can't or won't be solved, but it may take a lot of blood, sweat, tears, coffee, late nights, cold pizza, and time to do so. I don't envy the engineering team that has this on their todo list. It may not be at, or even near, the top of that todo list either as I suspect the vast majority of Mac users don't even know what a clone is. 😳
  2. You haven't been reading the highway signs marking the road for software updates, upgrades, reinstalls, and application installs. The first obvious road sign was the App Store like iOS. The second, a billboard instead of a sign, was the Recovery Drive. MacOS is tail-end Charlie on this. There are thousands of iPhones and dozens of iPads for every Mac and neither has ever had any way of getting software except the internet or cellular. Bringing MacOS and its distribution channels into line with the other ninety percent of Apple products is inevitable.

No problem with your "retweeting" my post.

I don't know about iPads, but can't iPhones be restored from the backup on your Mac?

And I suspect that those Mac users who are aware of clones are the ones who are the most at risk if they go by the boards.

Neither macOS or the hardware that runs it is infallible, and I think Apple needs to consider that.


The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire
Re: First Look At Big Sur
artie505 #56103 09/08/20 03:32 PM
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Originally Posted by artie505
I don't know about iPads, but can't iPhones be restored from the backup on your Mac?

And I suspect that those Mac users who are aware of clones are the ones who are the most at risk if they go by the boards.

Neither macOS or the hardware that runs it is infallible, and I think Apple needs to consider that.
In order:
  • No, because I never backup either my iPhone or iPad to my Mac, I back up to iCloud. In any case iPhone and iPad backups are not bootable and like Time Machine in Big Sur do not back up the OS, That has to be restored from the App Store and will be the latest OS compatible with the device, not the version that was on the device. The Apps are not backed up either, they come from the App Store as well. Backups consist primarily of settings and data.
  • Likely true
  • Unlikely to happen. Apple has been on this track for years and shows no signs of being diverted (especially if diversion would reduce security one iota).


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Re: First Look At Big Sur
joemikeb #56136 09/11/20 07:01 AM
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Originally Posted by joemikeb
Originally Posted by artie505
Neither macOS or the hardware that runs it is infallible, and I think Apple needs to consider that.

Unlikely to happen. Apple has been on this track for years and shows no signs of being diverted (especially if diversion would reduce security one iota).

And the safest car is one that sits in your driveway while you take taxis everywhere.

Apple's goal, a computer so invasively safe that it frees its users of all responsibility, ain't gonna be much of a computer.


The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire
Re: First Look At Big Sur
artie505 #56191 09/16/20 11:31 PM
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Maybe adding cellular capability to the MacBook would solve your conundrum. There is a rumored 11” MacBook Air(?), which would appear be little more than an 11” iPad Pro with a built in keyboard and running MacOS. 😜


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Re: First Look At Big Sur
joemikeb #56195 09/17/20 08:27 AM
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Originally Posted by joemikeb
Maybe adding cellular capability to the MacBook would solve your conundrum.
It would be a solution only if I was in a place where there was cellular access.

There are large parts of the world where there's neither cellular nor wi-fi available, and what do I do if my SSD goes south while I'm in such a location?


The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire
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