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Ready to do Cataline (tomorrow)
#55813 08/28/20 12:39 AM
Joined: Sep 2009
Likes: 3
OP Offline

Joined: Sep 2009
Likes: 3
To JoeMike: I am going to paste your last post to me regarding adding Catalina to my Mac. I will interject in green. I haven't done any of the real actions yet, but I did go through step-by-step and look at some things which gave me some questions.


Given you have a bootable copy of Sierra on your external drive we can shortcut the process.
PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE DO NOT GET AHEAD OF ME.

FOLLOW EACH AND EVERY ONE OF THE FOLLOWING STEPS IN EXACT SEQUENCE
I BOOT FROM THE EXTERNAL CLONE
1 Attach your external drive to your computer
2 While booted from the internal drive on your computer,
3 Verify you have SuperDuper installed on the external drive I do
4 if possible verify the missing files are on the external drive They are
5 go to System Preferences > Startup Disk
6 Select the Sierra 2015 as the boot drive
7 Click on Restart (When this completes you should be booted from Sierra on the external drive)
II PREPARE THE INTERNAL DRIVE
1 Open Disk Utility
2 in the Disk Utility sidebar, select the internal drive DRIVE (Be sure you select the physical drive not one of the paartitions on the drive) I am assuming you mean click on the drive called Apple SSD because below that and indented is Mac HD and then Mojave and Catalina.

3 On the Disk Utility tool bar select Erase (It's grayed out) then Name: Macintosh HD, Format Mac OS Extended (Journaled), Scheme: GUID Partition Map
4 Click Erase (again?)(This will effectively erase all content on your internal drive and all partitions) (Again, it's grayed out)
III CLONE SIERRA BACK TO THE INTERNAL DRIVE
• I don't have SuperDuper as an exemplar but I believe you know how to use it correctly. Your target drive is labeled Macintosh HD (I don't know how to do this. Can I skip this step? I probably won't be using Sierra again anyway except on my older mac.)
IV BOOT FROM THE INTERNAL DRIVE
1 While booted from the external drive go to System Preferences > Startup Disk
2 Select Macintosh HD as the boot drive (You mean Apple SSD which is above the Mac HD in the list?)
3 Click on Restart (when this completes you should be running Sierra from the internal drive on your computer and have a full 120GB available storage)
4 If your missing files were on the eternal drive they will now e on your internal drive. If not, you should have had a backup system like Time Machine running regularly.
V IF YOU WISH TO UPGRADE TO CATALINA
1 Open App Store
2 Search for Catalina
3 Click on Get
4 Follow the on-screen instructions.
5 Your computer screen will go blank several times and there will be excruciatingly long pauses but after 45 minutes or so...
6 You will be prompted for your logon password and you will be running Catalina
a There will be a new folder on your desktop that you can ignore
b Your internal drive will have been converted to APFS and there will be four APFS volumes on your internal drive (all showing a capacity of 120GB -- I will explain what is going on if you are interested)
c As time goes on, you will find you need to approve all sorts of things as part of Catalina's increased security precautions
d You will need to immediately update OnyX, SuperSuper, and probably a few other applications.
e You will have entered the 21st century of Apple computing
f If you switch to Carbon Copy Cloner you can turn on APFS Snapshots which will provide some limited protection against inadvertent file loss. (I tried CCC in the past and found it confusing, so I will stick with SuperDuper.)

If there are any major steps I can avoid because I am not going to use Sierra, let me know. Thanks for all your time, JoeMike. I appreciate it.


MacBook Pro - M2, Ventura 13.6
Safari Tech Prev 17.0
Safari 16.6
Firefox 116.0.2
iPhone 7 Version 15.8




Re: Ready to do Cataline (tomorrow)
plantsower #55827 08/28/20 04:35 PM
Joined: Aug 2009
Likes: 16
Moderator
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Moderator

Joined: Aug 2009
Likes: 16
Okay I will comment in BLUE. Please bear with me as I am dictating rather than typing. My left hand is in a sling and bandaged after surgery Wednesday. So I will keep my remarks brief.
My goals are:
  • to get rid of the partitions on your internal drive
  • to be sure you have a valid copy of your data
  • to reduce the possibility of error to a minimum
  • to end up with a clean copy of your existing OS on the internal drive ready for upgrade

To accomplish all of this with surety requires some extra steps. I believe they are worth it to be sure it was done right.


Given you have a bootable copy of Sierra on your external drive we can shortcut the process.
PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE DO NOT GET AHEAD OF ME.

FOLLOW EACH AND EVERY ONE OF THE FOLLOWING STEPS IN EXACT SEQUENCE
I BOOT FROM THE EXTERNAL CLONE
1 Attach your external drive to your computer
2 While booted from the internal drive on your computer,
3 Verify you have SuperDuper installed on the external drive I do just checking
4 if possible verify the missing files are on the external drive They are good
5 go to System Preferences > Startup Disk
6 Select the Sierra 2015 as the boot drive
7 Click on Restart (When this completes you should be booted from Sierra on the external drive)
II PREPARE THE INTERNAL DRIVE
1 Open Disk Utility
2 in the Disk Utility sidebar, select the internal drive DRIVE (Be sure you select the physical drive not one of the paartitions on the drive) I am assuming you mean click on the drive called Apple SSD because below that and indented is Mac HD and then Mojave and Catalina. was the screenshot unclear? Yes the outented portion.
3 On the Disk Utility tool bar select Erase (It's grayed out) then Name: Macintosh HD, Format Mac OS Extended (Journaled), Scheme: GUID Partition Map
well heckey darn I guess we're gonna have to do it the hard way.
  • click on partition
  • select the last partition on the drive
  • click on the minus sign at the bottom of the list
  • click apply
  • click done
  • repeat for the second partition on the list
  • when you get down to only one partition on the drive then you can erase the drive as in the original instructions


4 Click Erase (again?)(This will effectively erase all content on your internal drive and all partitions) (Again, it's grayed out)
III CLONE SIERRA BACK TO THE INTERNAL DRIVE
• I don't have SuperDuper as an exemplar but I believe you know how to use it correctly. Your target drive is labeled Macintosh HD (I don't know how to do this. Can I skip this step? I probably won't be using Sierra again anyway except on my older mac.) there is no consideration for your older Mac in these instructions. However if you do it my way you will retain a copy of Sierra on your external Drive that you could move to if you need it. Have you ever used super Duper? The only thing that is different here you would be selecting the external drive as the source and the internal drive as the target or where you are cloning too.
IV BOOT FROM THE INTERNAL DRIVE
1 While booted from the external drive go to System Preferences > Startup Disk
2 Select Macintosh HD as the boot drive (You mean Apple SSD which is above the Mac HD in the list?)
3 Click on Restart (when this completes you should be running Sierra from the internal drive on your computer and have a full 120GB available storage)
4 If your missing files were on the eternal drive they will now e on your internal drive. If not, you should have had a backup system like Time Machine running regularly.
V IF YOU WISH TO UPGRADE TO CATALINA
1 Open App Store
2 Search for Catalina
3 Click on Get
4 Follow the on-screen instructions.
5 Your computer screen will go blank several times and there will be excruciatingly long pauses but after 45 minutes or so...
6 You will be prompted for your logon password and you will be running Catalina
a There will be a new folder on your desktop that you can ignore
b Your internal drive will have been converted to APFS and there will be four APFS volumes on your internal drive (all showing a capacity of 120GB -- I will explain what is going on if you are interested)
c As time goes on, you will find you need to approve all sorts of things as part of Catalina's increased security precautions
d You will need to immediately update OnyX, SuperSuper, and probably a few other applications.
e You will have entered the 21st century of Apple computing
f If you switch to Carbon Copy Cloner you can turn on APFS Snapshots which will provide some limited protection against inadvertent file loss. (I tried CCC in the past and found it confusing, so I will stick with SuperDuper.) help me understand what you are concerned about in step III if super Duper is so easy

If there are any major steps I can avoid because I am not going to use Sierra, let me know. Thanks for all your time, JoeMike. I appreciate it. [/quote]

Last edited by joemikeb; 08/28/20 09:10 PM.

If we knew what it was we were doing, it wouldn't be called research, would it?

— Albert Einstein
Re: Ready to do Catalina (tomorrow)
joemikeb #55842 08/28/20 11:37 PM
Joined: Sep 2009
Likes: 3
OP Offline

Joined: Sep 2009
Likes: 3
Originally Posted by joemikeb
Okay I will comment in BLUE. Please bear with me as I am dictating rather than typing. My left hand is in a sling and bandaged after surgery Wednesday. So I will keep my remarks brief. [color:#993399] You have an owie on your hand, and I have a cold or a sinus infeciton, so this may have to be put off. Anyway....
My goals are:
  • to get rid of the partitions on your internal drive
  • to be sure you have a valid copy of your data
  • to reduce the possibility of error to a minimum
  • to end up with a clean copy of your existing OS on the internal drive ready for upgrade

To accomplish all of this with surety requires some extra steps. I believe they are worth it to be sure it was done right.
[/color]

Given you have a bootable copy of Sierra on your external drive we can shortcut the process.
PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE DO NOT GET AHEAD OF ME.

FOLLOW EACH AND EVERY ONE OF THE FOLLOWING STEPS IN EXACT SEQUENCE
I BOOT FROM THE EXTERNAL CLONE
1 Attach your external drive to your computer
2 While booted from the internal drive on your computer,
3 Verify you have SuperDuper installed on the external drive I do just checking
4 if possible verify the missing files are on the external drive They are good
5 go to System Preferences > Startup Disk
6 Select the Sierra 2015 as the boot drive
7 Click on Restart (When this completes you should be booted from Sierra on the external drive)
II PREPARE THE INTERNAL DRIVE
1 Open Disk Utility
2 in the Disk Utility sidebar, select the internal drive DRIVE (Be sure you select the physical drive not one of the paartitions on the drive) I am assuming you mean click on the drive called Apple SSD because below that and indented is Mac HD and then Mojave and Catalina. was the screenshot unclear? [color:#CC33CC]Mine says apple SSD so I was making sure. Yes the outented portion.[/color] Not sure what outented means. Typo?
3 On the Disk Utility tool bar select Erase (It's grayed out) then Name: Macintosh HD, Format Mac OS Extended (Journaled), Scheme: GUID Partition Map
well heckey darn I guess we're gonna have to do it the hard way.
  • click on partition
  • select the last partition on the drive
  • click on the minus sign at the bottom of the list [color:#993399](I think this is what I did orignially to try to get rid of Mojave and Catalina partitions but I will do it again.)
  • click apply
  • click done
  • repeat for the second partition on the list
  • when you get down to only one partition on the drive then you can erase the drive as in the original instructions

[/color]
4 Click Erase (again?)(This will effectively erase all content on your internal drive and all partitions) (Again, it's grayed out)
III CLONE SIERRA BACK TO THE INTERNAL DRIVE
• I don't have SuperDuper as an exemplar but I believe you know how to use it correctly. Your target drive is labeled Macintosh HD (I don't know how to do this. Can I skip this step? I probably won't be using Sierra again anyway except on my older mac.) there is no consideration for your older Mac in these instructions. [color:#993399]I know, I just wanted you to know that I have access to Sierra on my older Mac should I mess something up on my newer Mac while doing this. However if you do it my way you will retain a copy of Sierra on your external Drive that you could move to if you need it. I was trying to say I don't care if I have Sierra on my external drive if it would be easier to do it another way. Have you ever used super Duper? You know I have. That's what I've been talking about. That's how I transferred stuff to my external drive. The only thing that is different here you would be selecting the external drive as the source and the internal drive as the target or where you are cloning too.[/color]
IV BOOT FROM THE INTERNAL DRIVE
1 While booted from the external drive go to System Preferences > Startup Disk
2 Select Macintosh HD as the boot drive (You mean Apple SSD which is above the Mac HD in the list?)
3 Click on Restart (when this completes you should be running Sierra from the internal drive on your computer and have a full 120GB available storage)
4 If your missing files were on the eternal drive they will now e on your internal drive. If not, you should have had a backup system like Time Machine running regularly.
V IF YOU WISH TO UPGRADE TO CATALINA
1 Open App Store
2 Search for Catalina
3 Click on Get
4 Follow the on-screen instructions.
5 Your computer screen will go blank several times and there will be excruciatingly long pauses but after 45 minutes or so...
6 You will be prompted for your logon password and you will be running Catalina
a There will be a new folder on your desktop that you can ignore
b Your internal drive will have been converted to APFS and there will be four APFS volumes on your internal drive (all showing a capacity of 120GB -- I will explain what is going on if you are interested)
c As time goes on, you will find you need to approve all sorts of things as part of Catalina's increased security precautions
d You will need to immediately update OnyX, SuperSuper, and probably a few other applications.
e You will have entered the 21st century of Apple computing
f If you switch to Carbon Copy Cloner you can turn on APFS Snapshots which will provide some limited protection against inadvertent file loss. (I tried CCC in the past and found it confusing, so I will stick with SuperDuper.) help me understand what you are concerned about in step III if super Duper is so easy It's not that it's not easy, it's that I don't know what I am doing half the time. I tried to find a way to send what was on the ext. drive to my internal drive and couldn't see how. I will look again, but I want this to be as simple as possible, leaving out the external drive all together until I download Catalina and then will back it up to SuperDuper after all is said and done.

If there are any major steps I can avoid because I am not going to use Sierra, let me know. Thanks for all your time, JoeMike. I appreciate it.
[/quote]

Get better, and I will too, and then we can hopefully fix this.


MacBook Pro - M2, Ventura 13.6
Safari Tech Prev 17.0
Safari 16.6
Firefox 116.0.2
iPhone 7 Version 15.8




Re: Ready to do Catalina (tomorrow)
plantsower #55845 08/29/20 05:25 PM
Joined: Aug 2009
Likes: 16
Moderator
Offline
Moderator

Joined: Aug 2009
Likes: 16
Okay I will comment in BLUE. Please bear with me as I am dictating rather than typing. My left hand is in a sling and bandaged after surgery Wednesday. So I will keep my remarks brief. [color:#993399] You have an owie on your hand, and I have a cold or a sinus infeciton, so this may have to be put off. Anyway.... Now I am using red and I hope your cold rr sinus is just that and not anything more dangerous. I hope you haven't lost your sense of smell or taste shocked
My goals are:
  • to get rid of the partitions on your internal drive
  • to be sure you have a valid copy of your data
  • to reduce the possibility of error to a minimum
  • to end up with a clean copy of your existing OS on the internal drive ready for upgrade

To accomplish all of this with surety requires some extra steps. I believe they are worth it to be sure it was done right.
[/color]

Given you have a bootable copy of Sierra on your external drive we can shortcut the process.
PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE DO NOT GET AHEAD OF ME.

FOLLOW EACH AND EVERY ONE OF THE FOLLOWING STEPS IN EXACT SEQUENCE
I BOOT FROM THE EXTERNAL CLONE
1 Attach your external drive to your computer
2 While booted from the internal drive on your computer,
3 Verify you have SuperDuper installed on the external drive I do just checking
4 if possible verify the missing files are on the external drive They are good
5 go to System Preferences > Startup Disk
6 Select the Sierra 2015 as the boot drive
7 Click on Restart (When this completes you should be booted from Sierra on the external drive)
II PREPARE THE INTERNAL DRIVE
1 Open Disk Utility
2 in the Disk Utility sidebar, select the internal drive DRIVE (Be sure you select the physical drive not one of the paartitions on the drive) I am assuming you mean click on the drive called Apple SSD because below that and indented is Mac HD and then Mojave and Catalina. was the screenshot unclear? [color:#CC33CC]Mine says apple SSD so I was making sure. Yes the outented portion.[/color] Not sure what outented means. Typo? outdented is the opposite of indented
3 On the Disk Utility tool bar select Erase (It's grayed out) then Name: Macintosh HD, Format Mac OS Extended (Journaled), Scheme: GUID Partition Map
well heckey darn I guess we're gonna have to do it the hard way.
  • click on partition
  • select the last partition on the drive
  • click on the minus sign at the bottom of the list [color:#993399](I think this is what I did orignially to try to get rid of Mojave and Catalina partitions but I will do it again.)
  • click apply
  • click done
  • repeat for the second partition on the list
  • when you get down to only one partition on the drive then you can erase the drive as in the original instructions

[/color]
4 Click Erase (again?)(This will effectively erase all content on your internal drive and all partitions) (Again, it's grayed out)
III CLONE SIERRA BACK TO THE INTERNAL DRIVE
• I don't have SuperDuper as an exemplar but I believe you know how to use it correctly. Your target drive is labeled Macintosh HD (I don't know how to do this. Can I skip this step? I probably won't be using Sierra again anyway except on my older mac.) there is no consideration for your older Mac in these instructions. [color:#993399]I know, I just wanted you to know that I have access to Sierra on my older Mac should I mess something up on my newer Mac while doing this. However if you do it my way you will retain a copy of Sierra on your external Drive that you could move to if you need it. I was trying to say I don't care if I have Sierra on my external drive if it would be easier to do it another way. Have you ever used super Duper? You know I have. That's what I've been talking about. That's how I transferred stuff to my external drive. The only thing that is different here you would be selecting the external drive as the source and the internal drive as the target or where you are cloning too.[/color]
IV BOOT FROM THE INTERNAL DRIVE
1 While booted from the external drive go to System Preferences > Startup Disk
2 Select Macintosh HD as the boot drive (You mean Apple SSD which is above the Mac HD in the list?)
3 Click on Restart (when this completes you should be running Sierra from the internal drive on your computer and have a full 120GB available storage)
4 If your missing files were on the eternal drive they will now e on your internal drive. If not, you should have had a backup system like Time Machine running regularly.
V IF YOU WISH TO UPGRADE TO CATALINA
1 Open App Store
2 Search for Catalina
3 Click on Get
4 Follow the on-screen instructions.
5 Your computer screen will go blank several times and there will be excruciatingly long pauses but after 45 minutes or so...
6 You will be prompted for your logon password and you will be running Catalina
a There will be a new folder on your desktop that you can ignore
b Your internal drive will have been converted to APFS and there will be four APFS volumes on your internal drive (all showing a capacity of 120GB -- I will explain what is going on if you are interested)
c As time goes on, you will find you need to approve all sorts of things as part of Catalina's increased security precautions
d You will need to immediately update OnyX, SuperSuper, and probably a few other applications.
e You will have entered the 21st century of Apple computing
f If you switch to Carbon Copy Cloner you can turn on APFS Snapshots which will provide some limited protection against inadvertent file loss. (I tried CCC in the past and found it confusing, so I will stick with SuperDuper.) help me understand what you are concerned about in step III if super Duper is so easy It's not that it's not easy, it's that I don't know what I am doing half the time. I tried to find a way to send what was on the ext. drive to my internal drive and couldn't see how. I will look again, but I want this to be as simple as possible, leaving out the external drive all together until I download Catalina and then will back it up to SuperDuper after all is said and done. Your partitions on your internal drive make that very difficult maybe even impossible

If there are any major steps I can avoid because I am not going to use Sierra, let me know. Thanks for all your time, JoeMike. I appreciate it. [/quote] [/quote]

Get better, and I will too, and then we can hopefully fix this.


Rita, if you had a more recent operating system than Sierra, and if you did not have all the partitions on your internal drive, and you were more confident of what you are doing, and were willing to risk ending up at some point within non-bootable system, I could eliminate some steps. But you do not have a large enough partition to upgrade Sierra on your internal drive -- there simply isn't enough room. That is why we're going through all these steps. I want you to have a safe uneventful transition. While you can nondestructively remove partitions -- particularly in later versions of macOS — but that doesn't always work and the has a risk of ending up with a non-bootable system. I know there are a lot of steps and you wish you could eliminate some. Personally I can't think of a safe way of making the transition other than what I have outlined. If you are willing to go through with it. If I can get a free copy of Super Duper I will see if I can add specific superduper instructions. At this point I am beginning to wonder if I shouldn't rewrite the entire set of instructions? What do you think? It would mean waiting until I regain the use of my left hand because of all the typing it would require.


If we knew what it was we were doing, it wouldn't be called research, would it?

— Albert Einstein
Re: Ready to do Catalina (tomorrow)
joemikeb #55846 08/29/20 05:32 PM
Joined: Aug 2009
Likes: 15
Online

Joined: Aug 2009
Likes: 15
Originally Posted by joemikeb
If I can get a free copy of Super Duper I will see if I can add specific superduper instructions.

SuperDuper! is free as long as you don't want to do incremental backups.

The free version does only erase & clone.

Originally Posted by joemikeb
There will be a new folder on your desktop that you can ignore

I should have mentioned this long ago, but after one update that folder contained the file with my local passwords. I deleted it without really looking or thinking. Oops!

Best to examine it carefully.

Last edited by artie505; 08/29/20 05:39 PM. Reason: More

The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire
Re: Ready to do Catalina (tomorrow)
joemikeb #55847 08/29/20 06:29 PM
Joined: Sep 2009
Likes: 3
OP Offline

Joined: Sep 2009
Likes: 3
Thanks, JoeMike. I appreciate all you do for me. I am willing to wait if you want to rewrite it. Would it be easier to dictate on the Mac and then just correct the boo-boo's the Mac makes when it misunderstands you? Anyway, I'm in no hurry.

I compared my symptoms to Covid, and I don't believe I have it. Just a chest cold or a slight case of bronchitis. Taste and smell intact. No dry cough. No fever. Whew!







Originally Posted by joemikeb
Okay I will comment in BLUE. Please bear with me as I am dictating rather than typing. My left hand is in a sling and bandaged after surgery Wednesday. So I will keep my remarks brief. [color:#993399] You have an owie on your hand, and I have a cold or a sinus infeciton, so this may have to be put off. Anyway.... Now I am using red and I hope your cold rr sinus is just that and not anything more dangerous. I hope you haven't lost your sense of smell or taste shocked
My goals are:
  • to get rid of the partitions on your internal drive
  • to be sure you have a valid copy of your data
  • to reduce the possibility of error to a minimum
  • to end up with a clean copy of your existing OS on the internal drive ready for upgrade

To accomplish all of this with surety requires some extra steps. I believe they are worth it to be sure it was done right.
[/color]

Given you have a bootable copy of Sierra on your external drive we can shortcut the process.
PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE DO NOT GET AHEAD OF ME.

FOLLOW EACH AND EVERY ONE OF THE FOLLOWING STEPS IN EXACT SEQUENCE
I BOOT FROM THE EXTERNAL CLONE
1 Attach your external drive to your computer
2 While booted from the internal drive on your computer,
3 Verify you have SuperDuper installed on the external drive I do just checking
4 if possible verify the missing files are on the external drive They are good
5 go to System Preferences > Startup Disk
6 Select the Sierra 2015 as the boot drive
7 Click on Restart (When this completes you should be booted from Sierra on the external drive)
II PREPARE THE INTERNAL DRIVE
1 Open Disk Utility
2 in the Disk Utility sidebar, select the internal drive DRIVE (Be sure you select the physical drive not one of the paartitions on the drive) I am assuming you mean click on the drive called Apple SSD because below that and indented is Mac HD and then Mojave and Catalina. was the screenshot unclear? [color:#CC33CC]Mine says apple SSD so I was making sure. Yes the outented portion.[/color] Not sure what outented means. Typo? outdented is the opposite of indented
3 On the Disk Utility tool bar select Erase (It's grayed out) then Name: Macintosh HD, Format Mac OS Extended (Journaled), Scheme: GUID Partition Map
well heckey darn I guess we're gonna have to do it the hard way.
  • click on partition
  • select the last partition on the drive
  • click on the minus sign at the bottom of the list [color:#993399](I think this is what I did orignially to try to get rid of Mojave and Catalina partitions but I will do it again.)
  • click apply
  • click done
  • repeat for the second partition on the list
  • when you get down to only one partition on the drive then you can erase the drive as in the original instructions

[/color]
4 Click Erase (again?)(This will effectively erase all content on your internal drive and all partitions) (Again, it's grayed out)
III CLONE SIERRA BACK TO THE INTERNAL DRIVE
• I don't have SuperDuper as an exemplar but I believe you know how to use it correctly. Your target drive is labeled Macintosh HD (I don't know how to do this. Can I skip this step? I probably won't be using Sierra again anyway except on my older mac.) there is no consideration for your older Mac in these instructions. [color:#993399]I know, I just wanted you to know that I have access to Sierra on my older Mac should I mess something up on my newer Mac while doing this. However if you do it my way you will retain a copy of Sierra on your external Drive that you could move to if you need it. I was trying to say I don't care if I have Sierra on my external drive if it would be easier to do it another way. Have you ever used super Duper? You know I have. That's what I've been talking about. That's how I transferred stuff to my external drive. The only thing that is different here you would be selecting the external drive as the source and the internal drive as the target or where you are cloning too.[/color]
IV BOOT FROM THE INTERNAL DRIVE
1 While booted from the external drive go to System Preferences > Startup Disk
2 Select Macintosh HD as the boot drive (You mean Apple SSD which is above the Mac HD in the list?)
3 Click on Restart (when this completes you should be running Sierra from the internal drive on your computer and have a full 120GB available storage)
4 If your missing files were on the eternal drive they will now e on your internal drive. If not, you should have had a backup system like Time Machine running regularly.
V IF YOU WISH TO UPGRADE TO CATALINA
1 Open App Store
2 Search for Catalina
3 Click on Get
4 Follow the on-screen instructions.
5 Your computer screen will go blank several times and there will be excruciatingly long pauses but after 45 minutes or so...
6 You will be prompted for your logon password and you will be running Catalina
a There will be a new folder on your desktop that you can ignore
b Your internal drive will have been converted to APFS and there will be four APFS volumes on your internal drive (all showing a capacity of 120GB -- I will explain what is going on if you are interested)
c As time goes on, you will find you need to approve all sorts of things as part of Catalina's increased security precautions
d You will need to immediately update OnyX, SuperSuper, and probably a few other applications.
e You will have entered the 21st century of Apple computing
f If you switch to Carbon Copy Cloner you can turn on APFS Snapshots which will provide some limited protection against inadvertent file loss. (I tried CCC in the past and found it confusing, so I will stick with SuperDuper.) help me understand what you are concerned about in step III if super Duper is so easy It's not that it's not easy, it's that I don't know what I am doing half the time. I tried to find a way to send what was on the ext. drive to my internal drive and couldn't see how. I will look again, but I want this to be as simple as possible, leaving out the external drive all together until I download Catalina and then will back it up to SuperDuper after all is said and done. Your partitions on your internal drive make that very difficult maybe even impossible

If there are any major steps I can avoid because I am not going to use Sierra, let me know. Thanks for all your time, JoeMike. I appreciate it.
[/quote]

Get better, and I will too, and then we can hopefully fix this.


Rita, if you had a more recent operating system than Sierra, and if you did not have all the partitions on your internal drive, and you were more confident of what you are doing, and were willing to risk ending up at some point within non-bootable system, I could eliminate some steps. But you do not have a large enough partition to upgrade Sierra on your internal drive -- there simply isn't enough room. That is why we're going through all these steps. I want you to have a safe uneventful transition. While you can nondestructively remove partitions -- particularly in later versions of macOS — but that doesn't always work and the has a risk of ending up with a non-bootable system. I know there are a lot of steps and you wish you could eliminate some. Personally I can't think of a safe way of making the transition other than what I have outlined. If you are willing to go through with it. If I can get a free copy of Super Duper I will see if I can add specific superduper instructions. At this point I am beginning to wonder if I shouldn't rewrite the entire set of instructions? What do you think? It would mean waiting until I regain the use of my left hand because of all the typing it would require. [/quote]


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Re: Ready to do Catalina (tomorrow)
plantsower #55878 08/31/20 11:37 PM
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Rita,
You have heard of a Bridge too far well Sierra is almost that. If your installed version of Sierra is prior to MacOS 10.12.4, the only way to upgrade is by first upgrading to High Sierra. Even the Network Recovery Drive will only install the OS version that came on you Mac if it is still available. (See MacOS Recover exceptions at the bottom of this Apple Support Document). in working on a a shortcut version I have discovered there are a LOT of ifs which could end up with several alternative paths. Lots of, if this happens go to step IV.1.A.b else go to step III.B caused by unknowns in your Mac configuration, uncertainties in Apple instructions, variations in installed software, etc.. The shortcut instructions are longer than my original set of instructions and will get a LOT longer if I have to contend with multiple potential alternatives. The longer and more complex the instructions get to be the greater the risk of operator error (me or you) and the more steps necessary to prevent such an error.

At this point I would recommend two alternatives…
  1. I go back and put a spit shine on my original set of instructions, which avoid most of the uncertainties, and you use those or...
  2. You take your computer to a Certified Apple Repair facility and ask them to erase your internal drive and install Catalina They have access to installers and tools I don't have and can't reasonably get.

So what is your choice?


If we knew what it was we were doing, it wouldn't be called research, would it?

— Albert Einstein
Re: Ready to do Catalina (tomorrow)
joemikeb #55879 08/31/20 11:48 PM
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May I make a suggestion at this point?

If Rita is satisfied that she's got a good, current clone of her Sierra (10.12.6) boot drive on her external, why not go for broke and try to delete the extra partitions on her internal?

If the effort is successful, she can upgrade the remaining Sierra to Catalina, and if it fails, she's no worse off than she was.

(I'm at a loss as to why she can't erase her internal while booted into her external. I've done it, and there's no reason I can even begin to guess at why she can't other than that she was inadvertantly booted into her internal when she tried to erase it.)


The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire
Re: Ready to do Catalina (tomorrow)
joemikeb #55883 09/01/20 01:06 AM
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I choose to try fixing it ourselves because if you or I mess this up, I will have to take it to an Apple place anyway, and I will have to pay money either way. I'd rather take a chance and try it ourselves first. I still hope you will dictate most of it to save your hand or wait until your hand is way better. smile



Originally Posted by joemikeb
Rita,
You have heard of a Bridge too far well Sierra is almost that. If your installed version of Sierra is prior to MacOS 10.12.4, the only way to upgrade is by first upgrading to High Sierra. Even the Network Recovery Drive will only install the OS version that came on you Mac if it is still available. (See MacOS Recover exceptions at the bottom of this Apple Support Document). in working on a a shortcut version I have discovered there are a LOT of ifs which could end up with several alternative paths. Lots of, if this happens go to step IV.1.A.b else go to step III.B caused by unknowns in your Mac configuration, uncertainties in Apple instructions, variations in installed software, etc.. The shortcut instructions are longer than my original set of instructions and will get a LOT longer if I have to contend with multiple potential alternatives. The longer and more complex the instructions get to be the greater the risk of operator error (me or you) and the more steps necessary to prevent such an error.

At this point I would recommend two alternatives…
  1. I go back and put a spit shine on my original set of instructions, which avoid most of the uncertainties, and you use those or...
  2. You take your computer to a Certified Apple Repair facility and ask them to erase your internal drive and install Catalina They have access to installers and tools I don't have and can't reasonably get.

So what is your choice?


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Re: Ready to do Catalina (tomorrow)
artie505 #55884 09/01/20 01:10 AM
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Yep, I will go for broke to save a possible trip and money to an Apple store which is an hour away. And are they open yet or still closed because of Covid?

Not sure why everything was grayed out. I originally thought I erased the partitions, but obviously it didn't work. Hopefully, with my new instructions, all will be well. I didn't realize I couldn't upgrade to Catalina from just Sierra according to JoeMike. Though maybe I could upgrade to High Sierra and then go from there? We will see what he has to say.




Originally Posted by artie505
May I make a suggestion at this point?

If Rita is satisfied that she's got a good, current clone of her Sierra (10.12.6) boot drive on her external, why not go for broke and try to delete the extra partitions on her internal?

If the effort is successful, she can upgrade the remaining Sierra to Catalina, and if it fails, she's no worse off than she was.

(I'm at a loss as to why she can't erase her internal while booted into her external. I've done it, and there's no reason I can even begin to guess at why she can't other than that she was inadvertantly booted into her internal when she tried to erase it.)


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Re: Ready to do Catalina (tomorrow)
plantsower #55885 09/01/20 01:23 AM
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I looked at Apple Stores last night and found that some are open and some are still closed. Judging from the stores I looked at, I'll guess that store configuration is a, if not THE, major factor.

joemike said "If your installed version of Sierra is prior to MacOS 10.12.4, the only way to upgrade is by first upgrading to High Sierra," but you've got 10.12.6, so it's not an issue.

I think "going for broke" is your best approach at this point. If it works, you're home free, and if it fails, you can still fall back on joemike's instructions.


The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire
Re: Ready to do Catalina (tomorrow)
artie505 #55887 09/01/20 05:24 AM
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Right, but I still need to somehow be able to free up the space that the Catalina and Mojave partitions are taking up. That's why I am waiting more instructions before I d/l Catalina. I guess he didn't look at my profile regarding which version of Sierra I have, so at least that part should be simpler. I think I also told JoeMike I don't need to transfer Sierra to my internal drive since I have it on my external drive and also my older Mac. smile If I didn't tell him, that, I should have. Even when I have put older versions I thought I would like to keep on my external drive, I rarely, if ever, used them.

I think "going for broke" is your best approach at this point. If it works, you're home free, and if it fails, you can still fall back on joemike's instructions. [/quote]


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Re: Ready to do Catalina (tomorrow)
plantsower #55888 09/01/20 06:48 AM
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Originally Posted by plantsower
Right, but I still need to somehow be able to free up the space that the Catalina and Mojave partitions are taking up. That's why I am waiting more instructions before I d/l Catalina. I guess he didn't look at my profile regarding which version of Sierra I have, so at least that part should be simpler. I think I also told JoeMike I don't need to transfer Sierra to my internal drive since I have it on my external drive and also my older Mac. smile If I didn't tell him, that, I should have. Even when I have put older versions I thought I would like to keep on my external drive, I rarely, if ever, used them.

Originally Posted by artie
I think "going for broke" is your best approach at this point. If it works, you're home free, and if it fails, you can still fall back on joemike's instructions.

By "going for broke" I mean deleting those extra partitions while booted into Sierra on your internal. It may leave that incarnation of Sierra unbootable, but the backup on your external covers that possibility.

And if Sierra remains bootable afterwards, it'll be a snap to upgrade to Catalina.

Important: Is Sierra on your external current/up to date?

I'm suggesting this only because for some bizarre reason you're unable to erase you internal while booted into your external.

Last edited by artie505; 09/01/20 07:07 AM.

The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire
Re: Ready to do Catalina (tomorrow)
plantsower #55894 09/01/20 01:55 PM
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Originally Posted by plantsower
I choose to try fixing it ourselves because if you or I mess this up, I will have to take it to an Apple place anyway, and I will have to pay money either way. I'd rather take a chance and try it ourselves first. I still hope you will dictate most of it to save your hand or wait until your hand is way better. smile

You got it! I will do the spit shine on my instructions this afternoon when I get back fro the doctor's office. cool

Would you prefer to have them in the forum or as a downloadable PDF?

Last edited by joemikeb; 09/01/20 02:00 PM.

If we knew what it was we were doing, it wouldn't be called research, would it?

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Re: Ready to do Catalina (tomorrow)
joemikeb #55896 09/01/20 02:36 PM
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What do you think of my idea of trying a dynamic deletion of Rita's two extraneous internal partitions while she's booted into Sierra on her internal?

If it's successful, everyone saves a whole lot of time and effort and she can move right on to upgrading to Catalina, and if not, she remains at square one, i.e. still having to erase her internal.

Sierra on her external must, of course, be totally current, i.e. a mirror of her internal, but that's inherent in anything she does.


The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire
Re: Ready to do Catalina (tomorrow)
artie505 #55898 09/01/20 05:57 PM
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Yes, my Sierra is up to date on my external. I am awaiting JoeMike's new instructions and hopefully, this time my erase button won't be grayed out. Maybe I did something wrong. No surprise there!



Originally Posted by artie505
Originally Posted by plantsower
Right, but I still need to somehow be able to free up the space that the Catalina and Mojave partitions are taking up. That's why I am waiting more instructions before I d/l Catalina. I guess he didn't look at my profile regarding which version of Sierra I have, so at least that part should be simpler. I think I also told JoeMike I don't need to transfer Sierra to my internal drive since I have it on my external drive and also my older Mac. smile If I didn't tell him, that, I should have. Even when I have put older versions I thought I would like to keep on my external drive, I rarely, if ever, used them.

Originally Posted by artie
I think "going for broke" is your best approach at this point. If it works, you're home free, and if it fails, you can still fall back on joemike's instructions.

By "going for broke" I mean deleting those extra partitions while booted into Sierra on your internal. It may leave that incarnation of Sierra unbootable, but the backup on your external covers that possibility.

And if Sierra remains bootable afterwards, it'll be a snap to upgrade to Catalina.

Important: Is Sierra on your external current/up to date?

I'm suggesting this only because for some bizarre reason you're unable to erase you internal while booted into your external.


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Re: Ready to do Catalina (tomorrow)
joemikeb #55899 09/01/20 05:59 PM
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It doesn't matter. Thanks.

Originally Posted by joemikeb
Originally Posted by plantsower
I choose to try fixing it ourselves because if you or I mess this up, I will have to take it to an Apple place anyway, and I will have to pay money either way. I'd rather take a chance and try it ourselves first. I still hope you will dictate most of it to save your hand or wait until your hand is way better. smile

You got it! I will do the spit shine on my instructions this afternoon when I get back fro the doctor's office. cool

Would you prefer to have them in the forum or as a downloadable PDF?


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Re: Ready to do Catalina (tomorrow)
artie505 #55901 09/01/20 06:36 PM
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Originally Posted by artie505
What do you think of my idea of trying a dynamic deletion of Rita's two extraneous internal partitions while she's booted into Sierra on her internal?

If it's successful, everyone saves a whole lot of time and effort and she can move right on to upgrading to Catalina, and if not, she remains at square one, i.e. still having to erase her internal.

Sierra on her external must, of course, be totally current, i.e. a mirror of her internal, but that's inherent in anything she does.
  1. In order to delete a partition the DRIVE must be DISMOUNTED
  2. You CANNOT DISMOUNT THE BOOT DRIVE
  3. Therefore what you suggest is NOT POSSIBLE

This would work IF we were dealing with APFS Volumes, but instead these are PARTITIONS.

Last edited by joemikeb; 09/01/20 06:39 PM. Reason: add trailer

If we knew what it was we were doing, it wouldn't be called research, would it?

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Re: Ready to do Catalina (tomorrow)
artie505 #55904 09/01/20 06:58 PM
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I just re-updated my external drive just for the heck of it and it left this on my desktop. See screen shot below. Catalina and Mojave are empty but the Mac HD has stuff in it. This has never happened before when I used the external drive so I'm Screen Shot of Desktop not sure what I am supposed to do with these icons. Plus the new changes in the FTM website take some getting used to. No more ability to look up my old posts in an easy way that I can see. I tried to contact admin but the email bounces back as it has done before, so I contacted tech.


Originally Posted by artie505
What do you think of my idea of trying a dynamic deletion of Rita's two extraneous internal partitions while she's booted into Sierra on her internal?

If it's successful, everyone saves a whole lot of time and effort and she can move right on to upgrading to Catalina, and if not, she remains at square one, i.e. still having to erase her internal.

Sierra on her external must, of course, be totally current, i.e. a mirror of her internal, but that's inherent in anything she does.


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Re: Ready to do Catalina (tomorrow)
plantsower #55905 09/01/20 08:33 PM
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Those will be taken care of when you follow these instructions. Note previously I had referred to Macintosh HD an you told me your internal drive was named Apple HD and that is what used in my instructions.

I tried to post the instructions in the forum but this new version of UBB does not handle nested lists correctly and it was virtually unreadable. Let me know if you have any problem accessing the linked PDF version, and I will find another way to get them to you. shocked. :(b tongue

Last edited by joemikeb; 09/04/20 05:31 PM. Reason: correct link

If we knew what it was we were doing, it wouldn't be called research, would it?

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Re: Ready to do Catalina (tomorrow)
joemikeb #55912 09/01/20 11:00 PM
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Thank you. I d/l'd the PDF and printed it. I followed instructions to III-D and got stuck. There are three partitions: Mac HD, Catalina and Mojave. Mac HD had a grayed out minus sign so I went to the other two. Their minus signs were not grayed out, but no matter which partition I picked, the apply button was grayed out. That's as far as I could get. So much fun for both of us! And don't worry, I know how much trouble everyone goes through to help me. I don't take it for granted.




Originally Posted by joemikeb
Those will be taken care of when you follow these instructions. Note previously I had referred to Macintosh HD an you told me your internal drive was named Apple HD and that is what used in my instructions.

I tried to post the instructions in the forum but this new version of UBB does not handle nested lists correctly and it was virtually unreadable. Let me know if you have any problem accessing the linked PDF version, and I will find another way to get them to you. shocked. :(b tongue


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Re: Ready to do Catalina (tomorrow)
plantsower #55913 09/02/20 01:00 AM
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Maybe a dumb question, but which drive were you booted into when you ran into the brick wall?


The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire
Re: Ready to do Catalina (tomorrow)
artie505 #55914 09/02/20 04:37 AM
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Well, now that's a tricky question. I started out booted into the extended drive in Sierra 2015 per JM's instructions. While in that drive I was to go into Disk Utility and select my internal drive and then into the partitions. That's where I encountered the problem.



Originally Posted by artie505
Maybe a dumb question, but which drive were you booted into when you ran into the brick wall?


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Re: Ready to do Catalina (tomorrow)
plantsower #55915 09/02/20 08:28 AM
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Similar to the problem you encountered a week or so ago then.

BIZARRE! (Your description sounds like you were booted into your internal drive. crazy )

Have you tried running Repair Disk on your internal while booted into your external?

Do you see any error type messages or notations, when you select a partition for instance?


The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire
Re: Ready to do Catalina (tomorrow)
plantsower #55917 09/02/20 03:50 PM
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🤬🤯⚡️Try this,

Step III.A' Select Catalina and click UnMount on the Disk Utility tool bar
Step III.A'' Select Mojave and click UnMount on the Disk Utility tool bar
go to Step III.B

By-the-way I'm glad you had no trouble getting the download. I had not tried that relatively new iCloud feature before and wasn't completely sure how it works. 👍

Last edited by joemikeb; 09/02/20 03:53 PM. Reason: By the way

If we knew what it was we were doing, it wouldn't be called research, would it?

— Albert Einstein
Re: Ready to do Catalina (tomorrow)
joemikeb #55920 09/02/20 05:40 PM
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I will try this sometime today and let you know. As far as the PDF, I was given the choice to add to iCloud drive or download. I don't use iCloud so I just picked d/l. Worked like a champ!



Originally Posted by joemikeb
🤬🤯⚡️Try this,

Step III.A' Select Catalina and click UnMount on the Disk Utility tool bar
Step III.A'' Select Mojave and click UnMount on the Disk Utility tool bar
go to Step III.B

By-the-way I'm glad you had no trouble getting the download. I had not tried that relatively new iCloud feature before and wasn't completely sure how it works. 👍


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Re: Ready to do Catalina (tomorrow)
plantsower #55921 09/02/20 06:28 PM
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It's still worth your while to run Disk Repair before you try the other steps. At any rate, it can't hurt.

DR sometimes doesn't do the whole job in one shot, so if it runs and still returns an error, rerun it n times until it comes up clean.


The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire
Re: Ready to do Catalina (tomorrow)
artie505 #55922 09/02/20 06:34 PM
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What is Disk repair? Do you mean first aid on Disk Utility?


Originally Posted by artie505
It's still worth your while to run Disk Repair before you try the other steps. At any rate, it can't hurt.

DR sometimes doesn't do the whole job in one shot, so if it runs and still returns an error, rerun it n times until it comes up clean.


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Re: Ready to do Catalina (tomorrow)
plantsower #55923 09/02/20 06:38 PM
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That's it. (I think it used to be called Repair Disk, anyhow.)


The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire
Re: Ready to do Catalina (tomorrow)
artie505 #55924 09/02/20 06:43 PM
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I ran it recently with no errors. It runs very, very fast and never any errors. In my older macs it took awhile and always found something to fix. I really don't know if I trust the new one as it always says everything is hunky dory even when I have problems.


Originally Posted by artie505
That's it. (I think it used to be called Repair Disk, anyhow.)


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Re: Ready to do Catalina (tomorrow)
joemikeb #55925 09/02/20 07:22 PM
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OK, followed new instructions and unmounted the two partitions. Did III-B, C and D again but for "E", apply button is still grayed out!!



Originally Posted by joemikeb
🤬🤯⚡️Try this,

Step III.A' Select Catalina and click UnMount on the Disk Utility tool bar
Step III.A'' Select Mojave and click UnMount on the Disk Utility tool bar
go to Step III.B

By-the-way I'm glad you had no trouble getting the download. I had not tried that relatively new iCloud feature before and wasn't completely sure how it works. 👍


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Re: Ready to do Catalina (tomorrow)
plantsower #55926 09/02/20 07:23 PM
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Just to be certain, you ran it on the INternal drive while booted into the EXternal drive.

This-all doesn't make any sense!

Let's see if joemike's next steps work. We crossed in the mail.

Last edited by artie505; 09/02/20 07:26 PM.

The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire
Re: Ready to do Catalina (tomorrow)
artie505 #55927 09/02/20 07:25 PM
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I did. I booted into the external drive and never came out. Used D/U while in external drive and followed instructions regarding Internal drive on D/U. I am still using the external drive as I type this.

Originally Posted by artie505
Just to be certain, you ran it on the INternal drive while booted into the EXternal drive.

This-all doesn't make any sense.

Let's see if joemike's next steps work.


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Re: Ready to do Catalina (tomorrow)
plantsower #55928 09/02/20 07:31 PM
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I dunno! As I said, this doesn't make any sense.

You're trying to do something I"ve done multiple times with no issues, and I"ve got no more guesses to make about why you can't do it. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire
Re: Ready to do Catalina (tomorrow)
artie505 #55931 09/02/20 09:21 PM
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Maybe because it's me? Also, don't forget things are wonky on my Mac. Spotlight Search doesn't work and can't get "All my Files" on Finder without a workaround.


Originally Posted by artie505
I dunno! As I said, this doesn't make any sense.

You're trying to do something I"ve done multiple times with no issues, and I"ve got no more guesses to make about why you can't do it. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


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Re: Ready to do Catalina (tomorrow)
artie505 #55932 09/02/20 09:26 PM
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OK. Here's an example of where someone says something and thinks I can read between the lines. I went back and looked at Disk Utility and saw the 3 partitions. I had clicked on the partitions like I was told to but no one said to actually click on the minus signs! I was told to click on the partitions one at a time and then click "apply". So, just now I clicked on the minus signs and now I can click apply! I am going to see what else I can do now.


Originally Posted by artie505
That's it. (I think it used to be called Repair Disk, anyhow.)


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Re: Ready to do Catalina (tomorrow)
plantsower #55933 09/02/20 09:39 PM
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So, I redid some steps and clicked the minus signs and clicked apply. It did it's thing and then said it failed. This is what my D/U shows now: https://imgur.com/0PgM5Ue

I can click erase now though but will wait upon further instructions since something failed. I don't want to make this worse than it is.


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Re: Ready to do Catalina (tomorrow)
joemikeb #55935 09/02/20 10:50 PM
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OK. So, I redid some steps and clicked the minus signs and clicked apply. It did it's thing and then said it failed. This is what my D/U shows now: https://imgur.com/0PgM5Ue

I can click erase now though but will wait upon further instructions since something failed. I don't want to make this worse than it is.

Update: I redid some of the steps and then it took, so now I am ready to erase my HD. My question is this: Since my HD says it has 121.33 gb of space, does it mean that Sierra is still on it? If so, why do I erase since the other two partitions are not showing anymore? Or is it already erased, so then why erase? Silly questions if you know the answer, but I don't. I am ready to erase and then port back my Sierra 2015 from my ext drive, just wondering about this first.


Originally Posted by joemikeb
🤬🤯⚡️Try this,

Step III.A' Select Catalina and click UnMount on the Disk Utility tool bar
Step III.A'' Select Mojave and click UnMount on the Disk Utility tool bar
go to Step III.B

By-the-way I'm glad you had no trouble getting the download. I had not tried that relatively new iCloud feature before and wasn't completely sure how it works. 👍


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Updating to Catalina
#55936 09/03/20 05:02 AM
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To JoeMike:

I don't know if you saw my previous posts today as I was trying to follow all your instructions, but.....When I got back to my Mac this evening, my external drive had fallen off (not the first time) and I thought, "Oh no, I have to go back and redo stuff." I was out of my external drive mode, so I checked Disk Utility and it has 27.71 gigs used which I am assuming is mostly Safari. The rest is free space because my Mojave and Catalina partitions are gone after following directions! Yay! So, even though I didn't erase anything, they are gone. So, why can't I just upgrade to Catalina without erasing stuff and/or transferring Sierra 2015 from the external drive to my internal drive. That's all a moot point now, right? Hard Drive after all that work!


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Re: Updating to Catalina
plantsower #55937 09/03/20 02:11 PM
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That's a valid question, and one that most folks assume will go well if they just go forward with the existing stuff on their hard drive and install the new system over what's there instead of doing the full erase.....truthfully, it MIGHT be OK.

The reason that you would want to erase the hard drive next is pretty basic.......you want a pristine, clean slate with no hidden legacy issues remaining to potentially affect the installation. Erasing the hard drive assures that.....installing over the existing hard drive does not.

Hope this helps make the process easier for you.

We're all rooting for you!


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Re: Ready to do Catalina (tomorrow)
plantsower #55942 09/03/20 05:22 PM
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The amount of space used on the drive is immaterial. The object is to make the entire 120GB on your internal drive available for Catalina. My apologies for missing clicking on the minus sign. Please go ahead and erase the internal drive and continue with the instructions to clone Sierra to the internal drive and then upgrade to Catalina.


If we knew what it was we were doing, it wouldn't be called research, would it?

— Albert Einstein
Re: Updating to Catalina
MacManiac #55944 09/03/20 05:29 PM
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Rita the amount used is immaterial, the critical number is the amount of free space available in the partition and we are shooting for 120GB, (ie. the entire drive). Additionally, there is no way of knowing what all you deleted and that system was/is flaky as 🤬, so it is vastly preferable to get back to the full working system, which you have on your external drive, as the basis for the Catalina upgrade. You don't want to upgrade problems that may not go away in the upgrade.

Last edited by joemikeb; 09/03/20 05:31 PM. Reason: punctuation fault

If we knew what it was we were doing, it wouldn't be called research, would it?

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Re: Updating to Catalina
joemikeb #55946 09/03/20 05:49 PM
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All considered, maybe Rita will be best off doing a clean install on her internal and using Migration Assistant to import her settings, apps, and docs from her external?


The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire
Re: Ready to do Catalina (tomorrow)
joemikeb #55949 09/03/20 07:02 PM
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I forgot that maybe the wonky actions of what I have now would maybe go into my upgrade. So, after my shower, I will start with erasing the HD and go from there. Thank you for clearing that up.


Originally Posted by joemikeb
The amount of space used on the drive is immaterial. The object is to make the entire 120GB on your internal drive available for Catalina. My apologies for missing clicking on the minus sign. Please go ahead and erase the internal drive and continue with the instructions to clone Sierra to the internal drive and then upgrade to Catalina.


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Re: Ready to do Catalina (tomorrow)
joemikeb #55951 09/03/20 09:38 PM
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Catalina is now downloading as we speak. It says it's going to take 16 hours!!! I hope not, but I don't have a very fast internet, so maybe. It's only running at .63 mb/sec right now. The highest is a little over 1 mb/sec. I will obviously be on my older Mac this afternoon and evening!




Originally Posted by joemikeb
The amount of space used on the drive is immaterial. The object is to make the entire 120GB on your internal drive available for Catalina. My apologies for missing clicking on the minus sign. Please go ahead and erase the internal drive and continue with the instructions to clone Sierra to the internal drive and then upgrade to Catalina.


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Re: Ready to do Catalina (tomorrow)
plantsower #55954 09/03/20 09:50 PM
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When I installed Big Sur it threatened that it was going to take 30 hours to download (and I have a VERY fast internet connection). Imagine my pleasure when sn hour later I was prompted to log on to Big Sur 😀 Surely Apple doesn't do that intentionally 😳

.63Mbps! Who is your ISP? That sounds suspiciously as if they may be throttling large downloads.

Last edited by joemikeb; 09/03/20 09:53 PM. Reason: typo

If we knew what it was we were doing, it wouldn't be called research, would it?

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Re: Updating to Catalina
artie505 #55956 09/03/20 10:53 PM
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Originally Posted by artie505
All considered, maybe Rita will be best off doing a clean install on her internal and using Migration Assistant to import her settings, apps, and docs from her external?
I thought of that, and it had great appeal. If I were performing the process, it is the way I would go. But Rita is performing the process. The migration Assistant added more steps, and each was an opportunity for error in the instructions or their execution.

I considered doing the entire process from the internet Recovery Drive, but after reading the maybe's in Apple's instructions that applied specifically to Sierra, I did not want to deal with multiple alternatives. Again, if I were doing it, I would have worked primarily from the Internet Recovery Drive, but I was not going to be the executor.

I was striving to make the entire process to be as clean and straight forward as possible with minimal to no room for error, and in the end, have working versions of both Catalina and Sierra (just in case).

That is my rationale and I am sticking to it. 👴🏻


If we knew what it was we were doing, it wouldn't be called research, would it?

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Re: Ready to do Catalina (tomorrow)
joemikeb #55957 09/03/20 10:58 PM
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Now it says 13 hours. So there is hope!


Originally Posted by joemikeb
When I installed Big Sur it threatened that it was going to take 30 hours to download (and I have a VERY fast internet connection). Imagine my pleasure when sn hour later I was prompted to log on to Big Sur 😀 Surely Apple doesn't do that intentionally 😳

.63Mbps! Who is your ISP? That sounds suspiciously as if they may be throttling large downloads.


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Re: Updating to Catalina
joemikeb #55958 09/03/20 10:59 PM
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Glad you stuck to your guns. I need simple! smile


Originally Posted by joemikeb
Originally Posted by artie505
All considered, maybe Rita will be best off doing a clean install on her internal and using Migration Assistant to import her settings, apps, and docs from her external?
I thought of that, and it had great appeal. If I were performing the process, it is the way I would go. But Rita is performing the process. The migration Assistant added more steps, and each was an opportunity for error in the instructions or their execution.

I considered doing the entire process from the internet Recovery Drive, but after reading the maybe's in Apple's instructions that applied specifically to Sierra, I did not want to deal with multiple alternatives. Again, if I were doing it, I would have worked primarily from the Internet Recovery Drive, but I was not going to be the executor.

I was striving to make the entire process to be as clean and straight forward as possible with minimal to no room for error, and in the end, have working versions of both Catalina and Sierra (just in case).

That is my rationale and I am sticking to it. 👴🏻


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Re: Updating to Catalina
plantsower #55965 09/04/20 12:29 AM
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Okay here is another document to look at that may help explain the difference between partitions and volumes in APFS.


If we knew what it was we were doing, it wouldn't be called research, would it?

— Albert Einstein
Re: Updating to Catalina
joemikeb #55970 09/04/20 01:10 AM
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Originally Posted by joemikeb
Originally Posted by artie505
All considered, maybe Rita will be best off doing a clean install on her internal and using Migration Assistant to import her settings, apps, and docs from her external?
I thought of that, and it had great appeal. If I were performing the process, it is the way I would go. But Rita is performing the process.

All considered, then, no arguments here.


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Re: Updating to Catalina
joemikeb #55974 09/04/20 01:34 AM
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The link only showed “APFS VOLUME ANALOGY”, Your Name shared this item.



Originally Posted by joemikeb
Okay here is another document to look at that may help explain the difference between partitions and volumes in APFS.


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Re: Updating to Catalina
plantsower #55989 09/04/20 03:43 PM
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Originally Posted by plantsower
The link only showed “APFS VOLUME ANALOGY”, Your Name shared this item.

It didn't offer a download like the previous document?


If we knew what it was we were doing, it wouldn't be called research, would it?

— Albert Einstein
Re: Updating to Catalina
joemikeb #55991 09/04/20 04:18 PM
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I was able to d/l and look at it. Nice job!


The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire
Re: Updating to Catalina
joemikeb #55993 09/04/20 04:46 PM
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Nope. It didn't d/l nicely like the previous one.

On another note, I got a message this morning: The operation couldn't be completed. PK download error error 3. I looked it up and got this: Would you recommend this or is there something else I can do? There were a lot of other posts on that page and all were people who had the same problem of Catalina not downloading even if they were going from Mojave to Catalina. It made them want Steve Jobs back to make heads roll! LOL!



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Oct 19, 2019 1:54 PM in response to saied160

I read a lot of the posts with the same error and after being on the phone with Apple for a couple hours myself this is what worked (reinstall from macOS Recovery):
Fully shutdown Mac
Hold power on, Option+Command+R
You should see the spinning globe
You might also be asked to connect to a network
MacOS Utilities should open
Select “reinstall macOS”
It should show the Catalina update
If not, repeat this step (to remove the Mojave option)
This Apple link is helpful too: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204904









Originally Posted by joemikeb
Okay here is another document to look at that may help explain the difference between partitions and volumes in APFS.


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Re: Updating to Catalina
artie505 #55994 09/04/20 05:12 PM
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I hope that helps dissipate some of the fog surrounding APFS volumes.

Before I forget it, congratulations on getting Catalina up and running. It is highly likely you will have more questions in the future because of all the changes; don't hesitate to ask when they come up.

I have two requests for you...
  1. MacOS updates (ie. MacOS 10.15.4 to MacOS 10.15.5) come along every month to six weeks. Please install them as soon as they are available. These will invariably fix bugs, improve security, and sometimes add new features.
  2. MacOS upgrades (ie. Mac OS 10.15 to MacOS 11) come along annually. Please install them when they come out. These may include substantial changes in the system and may break older, no longer supported apps, but putting them off makes the next jump that much bigger and your learning curve that much steeper. I don't think you, Artie, or I want to go through this exercise again.

That said, thanks for the challenge. I enjoyed coming up with a rock-solid solution to a complex operation that could be carried out by "an intelligent but uninformed" individual such as yourself. Challenges like this keep me intellectually stimulated and helps prevent my making too many assumptions that always get me into trouble. 😜.


If we knew what it was we were doing, it wouldn't be called research, would it?

— Albert Einstein
Re: Updating to Catalina
joemikeb #55995 09/04/20 05:44 PM
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Thanks so much for your time and so sorry for my last post where you will see that we need to do something else. I actually did learn my lesson. It's against my nature to upgrade every time something wants me to, but I will now, except for my iPhone, LOL! Once I heard they slowed it down, I refused to upgrade before that happened to me. Hopefully, we can resolve my other problem of it being a failed d/l. frown

Rita



Originally Posted by joemikeb
I hope that helps dissipate some of the fog surrounding APFS volumes.

Before I forget it, congratulations on getting Catalina up and running. It is highly likely you will have more questions in the future because of all the changes; don't hesitate to ask when they come up.

I have two requests for you...
  1. MacOS updates (ie. MacOS 10.15.4 to MacOS 10.15.5) come along every month to six weeks. Please install them as soon as they are available. These will invariably fix bugs, improve security, and sometimes add new features.
  2. MacOS upgrades (ie. Mac OS 10.15 to MacOS 11) come along annually. Please install them when they come out. These may include substantial changes in the system and may break older, no longer supported apps, but putting them off makes the next jump that much bigger and your learning curve that much steeper. I don't think you, Artie, or I want to go through this exercise again.

That said, thanks for the challenge. I enjoyed coming up with a rock-solid solution to a complex operation that could be carried out by "an intelligent but uninformed" individual such as yourself. Challenges like this keep me intellectually stimulated and helps prevent my making too many assumptions that always get me into trouble. 😜.


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Re: Updating to Catalina
plantsower #55999 09/04/20 05:53 PM
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Originally Posted by plantsower
Nope. It didn't d/l nicely like the previous one.
🤷‍♂️ Apparently it worked for Artie. Try again using this URL

Originally Posted by plantsower
On another note, I got a message this morning: The operation couldn't be completed. PK download error error 3. I looked it up and got this: Would you recommend this or is there something else I can do? There were a lot of other posts on that page and all were people who had the same problem of Catalina not downloading even if they were going from Mojave to Catalina. It made them want Steve Jobs back to make heads rollhttps://www.icloud.com/iclouddrive/0AeusBln3weOwYZXCfvJHO3mw#RITA-V3_PDF! LOL!



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Oct 19, 2019 1:54 PM in response to saied160

I read a lot of the posts with the same error and after being on the phone with Apple for a couple hours myself this is what worked (reinstall from macOS Recovery):
Fully shutdown Mac
Hold power on, Option+Command+R
You should see the spinning globe
You might also be asked to connect to a network
MacOS Utilities should open
Select “reinstall macOS”
It should show the Catalina update
If not, repeat this step (to remove the Mojave option)
This Apple link is helpful too: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204904
I was going to suggest installing from the Internet Recovery Drive (which is what this is), but Apple's documentation indicated updating from a clean drive or Sierra might not offer Catalina as an upgrade choice and you would then have to upgrade via the App Store. Rather than take a risk I elected to go directly to the App Store but I was unaware of download issues from there. I am sanguine there are people at Apple tearing their hair out over this. Too 🤬 many ifs. However, it sounds as if you have things well in hand?


If we knew what it was we were doing, it wouldn't be called research, would it?

— Albert Einstein
Re: Updating to Catalina
joemikeb #56001 09/04/20 05:58 PM
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Nope, just what I posted above.

Originally Posted by joemikeb
Originally Posted by plantsower
The link only showed “APFS VOLUME ANALOGY”, Your Name shared this item.

It didn't offer a download like the previous document?


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Re: Updating to Catalina
plantsower #56002 09/04/20 06:02 PM
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Originally Posted by plantsower
Thanks so much for your time and so sorry for my last post where you will see that we need to do something else. I actually did learn my lesson. It's against my nature to upgrade every time something wants me to, but I will now, except for my iPhone, LOL! Once I heard they slowed it down, I refused to upgrade before that happened to me. Hopefully, we can resolve my other problem of it being a failed d/l. frown

Rita
Hopefully the Internet Recovery Drive install will work. As I said, I would have used it had it not been for Apple's warning it might not offer the Catalina upgrade. 🤬🤬🤬

I believe the iPhone slowdown issue was corrected in subsequent iOS releases. Even if it hasn't, I would still encourage updating and upgrading iOS for security reasons and bug fixes. Especially for security reasons.

Last edited by joemikeb; 09/04/20 06:02 PM.

If we knew what it was we were doing, it wouldn't be called research, would it?

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Re: Updating to Catalina
joemikeb #56003 09/04/20 06:24 PM
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This is what I got from your new url: “RITA-V3 PDF“ plus it gave your name and that your shared the document. That's it. I don't use iCloud, so maybe that's it though it worked for the previous PDF you sent me.

Also, by saying I have it well in hand, do you mean I should follow the instructions I posted here below? I wanted your opinion first. I've tried that option in the past with the spinning globe and it always asked me to pick a network but there is never one to pick. It's always a dead end. I think I am stuck with Sierra for now on my older Mac. I really don't want to go to an Apple store an hour away and wait in line and have them charge me for now. My old Mac seems to be working well now, so I will stick with that for now. Correction: Duh, I am able to use Sierra on my every day Mac because I copied it back on from SuperDuper.

I don't know why recovery doesn't work for me, but it never has. Last time I had to go to the Apple store because of the same problem of recovery not working after AppleCare had me delete stuff. It's been a long time ago and so I wasn't sure that what I was doing recently would have the same effect. I took a chance, but now see I probably will have to go to an Apple store but not in the near future. frown I sure wish there was another way around it. Maybe trying to d/l again?

Also, one of the other posters said he got it to work by SAYING: "I was able to solve the problem by continually trying to download the file over 100+ clicks, then removing the installation file and running software update again. The download came down successfully in one go and installed successfully." I don't know what he meant by 100+ clicks. 100+ tries? Yikes!

This page has some more tips, I wonder if they are feasible: OS recovery. Towards the bottom it talks about OS recovery Exceptions. Maybe I could try one of those. I still want your opinion first. The OS Recovery Exceptions are towards the bottom of the page.






Originally Posted by joemikeb
Originally Posted by plantsower
Nope. It didn't d/l nicely like the previous one.
🤷‍♂️ Apparently it worked for Artie. Try again using this URL

Originally Posted by plantsower
On another note, I got a message this morning: The operation couldn't be completed. PK download error error 3. I looked it up and got this: Would you recommend this or is there something else I can do? There were a lot of other posts on that page and all were people who had the same problem of Catalina not downloading even if they were going from Mojave to Catalina. It made them want Steve Jobs back to make heads rollhttps://www.icloud.com/iclouddrive/0AeusBln3weOwYZXCfvJHO3mw#RITA-V3_PDF! LOL!



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Oct 19, 2019 1:54 PM in response to saied160

I read a lot of the posts with the same error and after being on the phone with Apple for a couple hours myself this is what worked (reinstall from macOS Recovery):
Fully shutdown Mac
Hold power on, Option+Command+R
You should see the spinning globe
You might also be asked to connect to a network
MacOS Utilities should open
Select “reinstall macOS”
It should show the Catalina update
If not, repeat this step (to remove the Mojave option)
This Apple link is helpful too: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204904


I was going to suggest installing from the Internet Recovery Drive (which is what this is), but Apple's documentation indicated updating from a clean drive or Sierra might not offer Catalina as an upgrade choice and you would then have to upgrade via the App Store. Rather than take a risk I elected to go directly to the App Store but I was unaware of download issues from there. I am sanguine there are people at Apple tearing their hair out over this. Too 🤬 many ifs. However, it sounds as if you have things well in hand?

Last edited by plantsower; 09/04/20 06:36 PM.

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Re: Updating to Catalina
plantsower #56009 09/04/20 07:50 PM
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Originally Posted by plantsower
This is what I got from your new url: “RITA-V3 PDF“ plus it gave your name and that your shared the document. That's it. I don't use iCloud, so maybe that's it though it worked for the previous PDF you sent me.
Try this link.

Originally Posted by plantsower
Correction: Duh, I am able to use Sierra on my every day Mac because I copied it back on from SuperDuper.
Yes and becuse you now have enpough disk space, your former problems are likely history[/quote]

Originally Posted by plantswer
I don't know why recovery doesn't work for me, but it never has. Last time I had to go to the Apple store because of the same problem of recovery not working after AppleCare had me delete stuff. It's been a long time ago and so I wasn't sure that what I was doing recently would have the same effect. I took a chance, but now see I probably will have to go to an Apple store but not in the near future. frown I sure wish there was another way around it. Maybe trying to d/l again?
I would try downloading it from the App Store again, but I would start it late at night or early in the morning when internet traffic is low. Slow internet connections can be a problem with large downloads, but the App Store is usually pretty good at handling that. I would try two or three times before giving up on the App Store.

If the App Store download still fails then follow the instructions Apple gave you to boot from the internet recovery drive. When it prompts for your network, look at the menu bar for a network icon (radiating arcs) and click on that then select your WiFi and enter the password. I have had to do that on occassion but I never know for sure why that is.

Another possibility would be to bypass WiFi and connect your computer directly to the router via an ethernet cable, that would eliminate WiFi interference and could possibly speed up the download. Most routers have multiple ethernet ports so all you have to do is plug into one of those and the ethernet port on your Mac. (If your computer is a laptop you would probably need an ethernet adaptor as well.)

Originally Posted by plantsower
This page has some more tips, I wonder if they are feasible: OS recovery. Towards the bottom it talks about OS recovery Exceptions. Maybe I could try one of those. I still want your opinion first. The OS Recovery Exceptions are towards the bottom of the page.
That is the same page that has reasons why it might not work from the Recovery Drive if you are using Sierra. 😲 Which is why I wanted to avoid that option. Besides that the suggested alternatives are not particularly helpful except for taking your computer to an Apple Store. 😡


If we knew what it was we were doing, it wouldn't be called research, would it?

— Albert Einstein
Re: Updating to Catalina
joemikeb #56012 09/04/20 09:11 PM
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Originally Posted by joemikeb
Originally Posted by plantsower
This is what I got from your new url: “RITA-V3 PDF“ plus it gave your name and that your shared the document. That's it. I don't use iCloud, so maybe that's it though it worked for the previous PDF you sent me.
Try this link. That worked like the first link did. Thanks.

Originally Posted by plantsower
Correction: Duh, I am able to use Sierra on my every day Mac because I copied it back on from SuperDuper.
Yes and becuse you now have enpough disk space, your former problems are likely history
😀

Originally Posted by plantswer
I don't know why recovery doesn't work for me, but it never has. Last time I had to go to the Apple store because of the same problem of recovery not working after AppleCare had me delete stuff. It's been a long time ago and so I wasn't sure that what I was doing recently would have the same effect. I took a chance, but now see I probably will have to go to an Apple store but not in the near future. frown I sure wish there was another way around it. Maybe trying to d/l again?
I would try downloading it from the App Store again, but I would start it late at night or early in the morning when internet traffic is low. Slow internet connections can be a problem with large downloads, but the App Store is usually pretty good at handling that. I would try two or three times before giving up on the App Store. OK, will do.

If the App Store download still fails then follow the instructions Apple gave you to boot from the internet recovery drive. When it prompts for your network, look at the menu bar for a network icon (radiating arcs) and click on that then select your WiFi and enter the password. I have had to do that on occassion but I never know for sure why that is. That's never worked for me, but I will try if d/l's don't work.

Another possibility would be to bypass WiFi and connect your computer directly to the router via an ethernet cable, that would eliminate WiFi interference and could possibly speed up the download. Most routers have multiple ethernet ports so all you have to do is plug into one of those and the ethernet port on your Mac. (If your computer is a laptop you would probably need an ethernet adaptor as well.) If all else fails, I will also try this. I have connected to ethernet in the past to do recovery mode per AppleCare, but it didn't work. But, maybe d/ling Catalina will work that way. Thanks. I do have an ethernet adaptor because Apple discontinued including the port. 😡😡

Originally Posted by plantsower
This page has some more tips, I wonder if they are feasible: OS recovery. Towards the bottom it talks about OS recovery Exceptions. Maybe I could try one of those. I still want your opinion first. The OS Recovery Exceptions are towards the bottom of the page.
That is the same page that has reasons why it might not work from the Recovery Drive if you are using Sierra. 😲 Which is why I wanted to avoid that option. Besides that the suggested alternatives are not particularly helpful except for taking your computer to an Apple Store. 😡 [/quote] OK. I have lots to try now which give me some hope.


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Re: Updating to Catalina
plantsower #56016 09/04/20 10:32 PM
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I misplaced my ethernet adaptor. Is it better to use a thunderbolt or USB adaptor? Does it have to be a USB type C? I think thunderbolt may be more expensive and if USB will work, I will go with that.


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Re: Updating to Catalina
plantsower #56017 09/04/20 11:01 PM
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Originally Posted by plantsower
I misplaced my ethernet adaptor. Is it better to use a thunderbolt or USB adaptor? Does it have to be a USB type C? I think thunderbolt may be more expensive and if USB will work, I will go with that.
Don't confuse the port style with the dta protocol. USB C ports are the standard for Thunderbolt 3 and USB 3.2. All of the USB C ports on my Mac mini are Thunderbolt 3 and are downward compatible with USB 3.2. Thunderbolt 3 is four times faster than USB 3.2 so a TB3 adapter would be my first choice. However, USB 3.2 is probably faster than your internet.


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Re: Updating to Catalina
joemikeb #56018 09/04/20 11:18 PM
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Would this work? It's a 3.1 and says it works with new MacBook pros. Ethernet adapter


Originally Posted by joemikeb
Originally Posted by plantsower
I misplaced my ethernet adaptor. Is it better to use a thunderbolt or USB adaptor? Does it have to be a USB type C? I think thunderbolt may be more expensive and if USB will work, I will go with that.
Don't confuse the port style with the dta protocol. USB C ports are the standard for Thunderbolt 3 and USB 3.2. All of the USB C ports on my Mac mini are Thunderbolt 3 and are downward compatible with USB 3.2. Thunderbolt 3 is four times faster than USB 3.2 so a TB3 adapter would be my first choice. However, USB 3.2 is probably faster than your internet.


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Re: Updating to Catalina
plantsower #56020 09/05/20 01:13 AM
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Okay here is another document to look at that may help explain the difference between partitions and volumes in APFS.

Though I still don't completely understand it, your explanation on 4/26/20 was even better.




Originally Posted by plantsower
Nope. It didn't d/l nicely like the previous one.

On another note, I got a message this morning: The operation couldn't be completed. PK download error error 3. I looked it up and got this: Would you recommend this or is there something else I can do? There were a lot of other posts on that page and all were people who had the same problem of Catalina not downloading even if they were going from Mojave to Catalina. It made them want Steve Jobs back to make heads roll! LOL!



★ Helpful
User profile for user: samahart samahart
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Oct 19, 2019 1:54 PM in response to saied160

I read a lot of the posts with the same error and after being on the phone with Apple for a couple hours myself this is what worked (reinstall from macOS Recovery):
Fully shutdown Mac
Hold power on, Option+Command+R
You should see the spinning globe
You might also be asked to connect to a network
MacOS Utilities should open
Select “reinstall macOS”
It should show the Catalina update
If not, repeat this step (to remove the Mojave option)
This Apple link is helpful too: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204904









Originally Posted by joemikeb
Okay here is another document to look at that may help explain the difference between partitions and volumes in APFS.


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Re: Updating to Catalina
plantsower #56022 09/05/20 04:34 AM
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I found my old ethernet adaptor which is a usb 3.0. Adaptor. I tried it, but got the message you don't have DSL or a cable so cannot connect. What? The internet went out just about then, too, so I don't know if it was a coincidence or what. I am now d/ling via wifi again. Wish me luck!


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Re: Updating to Catalina
plantsower #56029 09/05/20 05:52 PM
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Originally Posted by plantsower
I found my old ethernet adaptor which is a usb 3.0. Adaptor. I tried it, but got the message you don't have DSL or a cable so cannot connect. What? The internet went out just about then, too, so I don't know if it was a coincidence or what.
Sounds as if the internet going out was the cause of the first message. FYI the connector in your device is USB type A. But there is a significant difference in the maximum data rate possible based on the protocol:
  • USB 3.0 - 5Gbps
  • USB 3.1 - 10 Gbps
  • USB 3.2 (a.k.a. 3.1 gen 2) - 20 Gbps
  • Thunderbolt 3 - 40Gbps (Type C connector only)


Originally Posted by plantsower
I am now d/ling via wifi again. Wish me luck!
🤞🤞🤞🤞(there is no icon for crossed toes) 😉


If we knew what it was we were doing, it wouldn't be called research, would it?

— Albert Einstein
Re: Updating to Catalina
joemikeb #56030 09/05/20 06:13 PM
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I'M UP AND RUNNING!!!!! Glad you told me about the screen going dark and stuff or I would have started all over.

I don't like dark mode and found out online that I could tell Siri to disable it and he (man's voice for some reason) did! Now off to learning other stuff!

Oh, one question. Under the network options, all boxes are checked automatically but the iPhone box was unchecked. Does that sync my iPhone to the mac? I couldn't find that info anywhere. I wonder if I need to do that so that messages show up on the mac and my iPhone like they did before. I don't want my credit card info on my phone, so I hope that's not an issue.

You would be proud of me, I put the Mac on auto update and will turn on Time Machine though I probably won't use it! LOL! Oops, it looks like it was automatically on. Oh well.

Thanks again for all your help JoeMike and everybody, and I will let you know if I have any questions that I can't get answered after researching it.

Rita


Originally Posted by joemikeb
Originally Posted by plantsower
I found my old ethernet adaptor which is a usb 3.0. Adaptor. I tried it, but got the message you don't have DSL or a cable so cannot connect. What? The internet went out just about then, too, so I don't know if it was a coincidence or what.
Sounds as if the internet going out was the cause of the first message. FYI the connector in your device is USB type A. But there is a significant difference in the maximum data rate possible based on the protocol:
  • USB 3.0 - 5Gbps
  • USB 3.1 - 10 Gbps
  • USB 3.2 (a.k.a. 3.1 gen 2) - 20 Gbps
  • Thunderbolt 3 - 40Gbps (Type C connector only)


Originally Posted by plantsower
I am now d/ling via wifi again. Wish me luck!
🤞🤞🤞🤞(there is no icon for crossed toes) 😉


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Re: Updating to Catalina
plantsower #56031 09/05/20 06:29 PM
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Originally Posted by plantsower
I'M UP AND RUNNING!!!!!

YAAAY!!! smile

Originally Posted by plantsower
...will turn on Time Machine though I probably won't use it! LOL! Oops, it looks like it was automatically on. Oh well.

Time Machine may be able to use your external even with Sierra on it (...a question for joemike), but it's why I suggested partitioning your external a while back...so you'd have unique spaces for both backup AND Time Machine.

As a matter of fact, I believe your internal is now APFS, and I suggest erasing your external and REformatting it APFS with 2 partitions...one for backups and one for TM.


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In Memory of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire
Re: Updating to Catalina
artie505 #56032 09/05/20 06:40 PM
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If Rita is using the external for Time Machine, she cannot use APFS. TM drives MUST be formatted Mac OS Extended (journaled). I believe, however, that if she sets up TM, the drive will automatically be formatted correctly. As I understand it, TM drives can be formatted APFS in Big Sur.


Jon

macOS 11.7.10, iMac Retina 5K 27-inch, late 2014, 3.5 GHz Intel Core i5, 1 TB fusion drive, 16 GB RAM, Epson SureColor P600, Photoshop CC, Lightroom CC, MS Office 365
Re: Updating to Catalina
artie505 #56033 09/05/20 06:41 PM
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Yeah, well I will need specific instructions for that. tongue

As a matter of fact, I believe your internal is now APFS, and I suggest erasing your external and REformatting it APFS with 2 partitions...one for backups and one for TM. [/quote]


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Re: Updating to Catalina
jchuzi #56034 09/05/20 06:41 PM
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Thanks for correcting me, Jon.

I should have remembered that from multiple joemike posts.


The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire
Re: Updating to Catalina
plantsower #56035 09/05/20 07:57 PM
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Rita, I am proud of you! You have made a big step, and I am glad you left auto-update turned on. That way, the next step will be relatively small and one heck of a lot less complicated. 👌

Your internal drive is now formatted APFS and has four Volumes, only one of which (Macintosh HD - Data) do you have read-write access. The other volumes are Read Only. If you want to keep Sierra as a security blanket, you cannot format the external drive APFS. Unless you do want to keep Sierra as a security blanket, I would erase the external drive to Mac OS Extended (Journaled) and use the whole thing for Time Machine backups. (Check System Preferences > Time Machine to see which drive it is using.)

If you feel the need for a bootable backup, the Recovery Drive will work to make repairs or even reinstall if necessary, which is what Apple intends. (Big Sur at this point cannot be cloned unless and until Apple creates a utility to do that. SuperDuper and Carbon Copy Cloner can only clone the data volume.) This fall, when you update to Big Sur, you can convert your external drive to APFS without losing the data on it. Whatever you decide, I do NOT recommend partitioning. (Okay, I NEVER recommend partitioning unless it is unavoidable.)


If we knew what it was we were doing, it wouldn't be called research, would it?

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Re: Updating to Catalina
joemikeb #56037 09/05/20 08:38 PM
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Yeah, I will wait until then and then get instructions. This fall, when you update to Big Sur, you can convert your external drive to APFS without losing the data on it. Whatever you decide, I do NOT recommend partitioning. (Okay, I NEVER recommend partitioning unless it is unavoidable.) [/quote]

1. Nobody answered my question about the iPhone check box in the Network section. Messages is already syncing with iPhone and my Mac, so what is the reason for checking that box?

2. AirPlay showed up. I decided to try it later, but it had disappeared by then. Where is it so I can activate it?

3. Also, I see cleaner-app.app in the applications. Does that come with Catalina? I don't remember d/ling it.

Hopefully, that's it for now.


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Re: Updating to Catalina
joemikeb #56040 09/05/20 11:41 PM
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Originally Posted by joemikeb
If you feel the need for a bootable backup, the Recovery Drive will work to make repairs or even reinstall if necessary, which is what Apple intends. (Big Sur at this point cannot be cloned unless and until Apple creates a utility to do that. SuperDuper and Carbon Copy Cloner can only clone the data volume.)

I'm having a LOT of trouble trying to believe that Apple is going to leave us with no way to create a bootable clone. I'm having a LOT of trouble believing that they'd even think of it.

Their mandating an Internet connection for upgrading was bad enough, but at least it only left us potentially unable to upgrade, which is an option rather than a necessity.

How do they expect us to recover when we NEED to recover and we haven't got Internet accessibility?

Originally Posted by joemikeb
Whatever you decide, I do NOT recommend partitioning. (Okay, I NEVER recommend partitioning unless it is unavoidable.)

You've softened that stance since the advent of APFS volumes.

In anticipation of CCC and SuperDuper! regaining full functionality, and since Rita's got a 1 TB external to potentially use for a Time Machine backup of a 120 GB internal with less than 40 GB of system and data combined, I'll stick with my suggestion that she split the drive in half and reserve 500 GB for Time Machine and the rest (I suggest 5 x 100 GB.) for backup.

Last edited by artie505; 09/06/20 01:57 PM.

The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

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Re: Updating to Catalina
plantsower #56042 09/06/20 02:22 PM
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Originally Posted by plantsower
1. Nobody answered my question about the iPhone check box in the Network section. Messages is already syncing with iPhone and my Mac, so what is the reason for checking that box?
If you have your iPhone set up to create a Personal Hotspot that means you are authorizing your computer to use it to connect to the internet using the iPhone's internet connection. Generally not recommended.

Originally Posted by plantsower
2. AirPlay showed up. I decided to try it later, but it had disappeared by then. Where is it so I can activate it?
Airplay instructions

Originally Posted by plantsower
3. Also, I see cleaner-app.app in the applications. Does that come with Catalina? I don't remember d/ling it.
That is no standard cleaner app.

Last edited by joemikeb; 09/06/20 02:23 PM.

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Re: Updating to Catalina
artie505 #56043 09/06/20 02:43 PM
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Originally Posted by artie505
I'm having a LOT of trouble trying to believe that Apple is going to leave us with no way to create a bootable clone. I'm having a LOT of trouble believing that they'd even think of it.
The ball is in Apple's court.

Originally Posted by artie505
Originally Posted by joemikeb
Whatever you decide, I do NOT recommend partitioning. (Okay, I NEVER recommend partitioning unless it is unavoidable.)

You've softened that stance since the advent of APFS volumes.
Not really! The advent of APFS volumes makes Prtitioning easily avoidable. 😜

Originally Posted by artie505
In anticipation of CCC and SuperDuper! regaining full functionality, and since Rita's got a 1 TB external to potentially use for a Time Machine backup of a 120 GB internal with less than 40 GB of system and data combined, I'll stick with my suggestion that she split the drive in half and reserve 500 GB for Time Machine and the rest (I suggest 5 x 100 GB.) for backup.
If you absolutely have to have a clone how about a 150GB partition for the clone and the remainder of the drive for Time Machine?


If we knew what it was we were doing, it wouldn't be called research, would it?

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Re: Updating to Catalina
joemikeb #56045 09/06/20 05:17 PM
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Originally Posted by joemikeb
Originally Posted by plantsower
1. Nobody answered my question about the iPhone check box in the Network section. Messages is already syncing with iPhone and my Mac, so what is the reason for checking that box?
If you have your iPhone set up to create a Personal Hotspot that means you are authorizing your computer to use it to connect to the internet using the iPhone's internet connection. Generally not recommended. OK, I won't!

Originally Posted by plantsower
2. AirPlay showed up. I decided to try it later, but it had disappeared by then. Where is it so I can activate it?
Airplay instructions It still doesn't say where Air Play went. At first it showed up as an icon on my Mac and showed that it was connected to one of our TVs in the house. Then all that disappeared. I was just curious but will probably not use it anyway, but thanks for the info.

Originally Posted by plantsower
3. Also, I see cleaner-app.app in the applications. Does that come with Catalina? I don't remember d/ling it.
That is no standard cleaner app.
I guess I may have downloaded it off the App store but forgot. So, I am assuming you don't recommend it either.

Besides the few little questions I had, I don't see a big difference between Catalina and Sierra for my use. I still haven't run into all the extra security steps I was warned about. It's been a lot easier than I thought. I was expecting the worst.


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Re: Updating to Catalina
plantsower #56046 09/06/20 05:34 PM
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Rita, after all your download problems I went looking for an alternative and now with the help of Diskmaker-X-9-Catalina, a donation-ware Applescript utility, and this YouTube video on using it, I have a 16GB thumb drive with the Catalina installer on it. Not that you still need it, but there may be others reading this thread who might be interested.

Now I will have to see if it will work for Big Sur.


If we knew what it was we were doing, it wouldn't be called research, would it?

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Re: Updating to Catalina
joemikeb #56050 09/06/20 06:31 PM
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OK. Hope it helps someone. I got lucky!


Originally Posted by joemikeb
Rita, after all your download problems I went looking for an alternative and now with the help of Diskmaker-X-9-Catalina, a donation-ware Applescript utility, and this YouTube video on using it, I have a 16GB thumb drive with the Catalina installer on it. Not that you still need it, but there may be others reading this thread who might be interested.

Now I will have to see if it will work for Big Sur.


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Re: Updating to Catalina
plantsower #56053 09/06/20 07:13 PM
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Originally Posted by plantsower
Originally Posted by plantsower
3. Also, I see cleaner-app.app in the applications. Does that come with Catalina? I don't remember d/ling it.
Originally Posted by joemikeb
That is no standard cleaner app.
I guess I may have downloaded it off the App store but forgot. So, I am assuming you don't recommend it either.
To be perfectly honest I don't know of an app cleaner/remover/deleter utility that I can unreservedly recommend. At the moment, I use the uninstallation assistant in Marcel Bresink's TinkerTool System 6 and occassionally run the cleanup utilities in Koingo Software's MacPilot. I chose these mainly because each offers a host of other useful features for someone who likes to fiddle with their system, not because they are superior at uninstalls or cleanup.


If we knew what it was we were doing, it wouldn't be called research, would it?

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Re: Updating to Catalina
joemikeb #56055 09/06/20 07:27 PM
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OK. Well I don't have your brain or your experience, but I do like to clean up the best I can without hurting anything. Mostly now I just manage my files within Finder and use App Cleaner and EasyFind. I've heard too many bad things about the cleaners, so now I steer clear. Thanks JoeMB.


Originally Posted by joemikeb
Originally Posted by plantsower
Originally Posted by plantsower
3. Also, I see cleaner-app.app in the applications. Does that come with Catalina? I don't remember d/ling it.
Originally Posted by joemikeb
That is no standard cleaner app.
I guess I may have downloaded it off the App store but forgot. So, I am assuming you don't recommend it either.
To be perfectly honest I don't know of an app cleaner/remover/deleter utility that I can unreservedly recommend. At the moment, I use the uninstallation assistant in Marcel Bresink's TinkerTool System 6 and occassionally run the cleanup utilities in Koingo Software's MacPilot. I chose these mainly because each offers a host of other useful features for someone who likes to fiddle with their system, not because they are superior at uninstalls or cleanup.


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Re: Ready to do Catalina (tomorrow)
joemikeb #56065 09/07/20 07:08 AM
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Originally Posted by joemikeb
Originally Posted by artie505
What do you think of my idea of trying a dynamic deletion of Rita's two extraneous internal partitions while she's booted into Sierra on her internal?
  1. In order to delete a partition the DRIVE must be DISMOUNTED
  2. You CANNOT DISMOUNT THE BOOT DRIVE
  3. Therefore what you suggest is NOT POSSIBLE

This would work IF we were dealing with APFS Volumes, but instead these are PARTITIONS.

I don't remember exactly when, but unless I"ve lost it altogether, Apple bestowed upon us the ability to delete partitions from the drive into which we're booted, albeit with a strong data loss caveat, sometime back in OS X.

And you even suggested it in one of Rita's threads a while back but rejected the idea because of the potential for data loss.


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Re: Updating to Catalina
joemikeb #56066 09/07/20 07:34 AM
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Originally Posted by joemikeb
That said, thanks for the challenge.

With you on that!!!

Thanks for keeping us sharp, Rita. smile


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Re: Updating to Catalina
joemikeb #56067 09/07/20 08:19 AM
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Originally Posted by joemikeb
Originally Posted by artie505
Originally Posted by joemikeb
Whatever you decide, I do NOT recommend partitioning. (Okay, I NEVER recommend partitioning unless it is unavoidable.)

You've softened that stance since the advent of APFS volumes.
Not really! The advent of APFS volumes makes Prtitioning easily avoidable. 😜

Volumes aren't partitions in the "container" sense of the word, but they still represent a partitioning of data, just a more tolerable one.

Originally Posted by joemikeb
Originally Posted by artie505
In anticipation of CCC and SuperDuper! regaining full functionality, and since Rita's got a 1 TB external to potentially use for a Time Machine backup of a 120 GB internal with less than 40 GB of system and data combined, I'll stick with my suggestion that she split the drive in half and reserve 500 GB for Time Machine and the rest (I suggest 5 x 100 GB.) for backup.
If you absolutely have to have a clone how about a 150GB partition for the clone and the remainder of the drive for Time Machine?

Your dislike for partitions is rooted in the fact that you can't anticipate future needs, but in this instance you've overlooked anticipatable future needs.

In addition to a Time Machine partition (and, of course, on the assumption that Mike will get CCC fully up and running), I think Rita should have a partition for a "just in case" clone of Catalina before she upgrades to Big Sur, another one for a clone of her currrent Big Sur installation, and at least one "just in case" empty partition...just in case.

So how about 3 x 120 GB (at the least) and the 640 GB balance for Time Machine?

And finally, why wouldn't you want a clone? (You run CCC.) What are we supposed to do in the event of a catastrophe if we haven't got an Internet connection? Carry a RAID unit around with us?


The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire
Re: Updating to Catalina
joemikeb #56068 09/07/20 08:29 AM
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Originally Posted by joemikeb
Rita, after all your download problems I went looking for an alternative and now with the help of Diskmaker-X-9-Catalina, a donation-ware Applescript utility, and this YouTube video on using it, I have a 16GB thumb drive with the Catalina installer on it. Not that you still need it, but there may be others reading this thread who might be interested.

Now I will have to see if it will work for Big Sur.

That's a bootable installer, I ASSume?


The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire
Re: Updating to Catalina
joemikeb #56069 09/07/20 08:35 AM
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Originally Posted by joemikeb
To be perfectly honest I don't know of an app cleaner/remover/deleter utility that I can unreservedly recommend. At the moment, I use the uninstallation assistant in Marcel Bresink's TinkerTool System 6 and occassionally run the cleanup utilities in Koingo Software's MacPilot. I chose these mainly because each offers a host of other useful features for someone who likes to fiddle with their system, not because they are superior at uninstalls or cleanup.

I don't get these uninstall utilities! I've got FindAnyFile set to show both visible and invisible files, and I run it with both the app and developer name, and I don't think any utility can find even as much as it finds without monitoring apps in real time to watch as they create new files.


The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire
Re: Ready to do Catalina (tomorrow)
artie505 #56071 09/07/20 03:00 PM
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Originally Posted by artie505
I don't remember exactly when, but unless I"ve lost it altogether, Apple bestowed upon us the ability to delete partitions from the drive into which we're booted, albeit with a strong data loss caveat, sometime back in OS X.

And you even suggested it in one of Rita's threads a while back but rejected the idea because of the potential for data loss.
If your have a spare bootable drive that is partitioned you are welcome to give it a try, but I think you will find you have to boot from the Recovery drive to do it. If I suggested it, I was having a senior moment at the time. 🤔

Originally Posted by artie505
That's a bootable installer, I ASSume?

Yes

Originally Posted by artie505
I don't get these uninstall utilities! I've got FindAnyFile set to show both visible and invisible files, and I run it with both the app and developer name, and I don't think any utility can find even as much as it finds without monitoring apps in real time to watch as they create new files.
The app you are referring to is no longer available, but I have found that some apps have multiple developer names and spray "stuff" all over the system. I usually find the detritus a couple of years later as orphan or unused files.

INTERESTING SIDELIGHT: I discovered yesterday that Marcel Bresink's TinkerTool System balks at deleting App Store applications and directs the user to delete them in Launchpad. Not sure what that is about, but Marcel is one of the very best and oldest developers, so I will take his word and delete those from within Launchpad.

Originally Posted by artie505
And finally, why wouldn't you want a clone? (You run CCC.) What are we supposed to do in the event of a catastrophe if we haven't got an Internet connection? Carry a RAID unit around with us?
Actually I have an iPhone and I can turn on a WiFi hotspot and download the Recovery Drive or Internet Recoverey Drive over the cellular network. I've done it. It is not terribly fast, but it works.

Last edited by joemikeb; 09/07/20 03:22 PM.

If we knew what it was we were doing, it wouldn't be called research, would it?

— Albert Einstein
Re: Ready to do Catalina (tomorrow)
joemikeb #56135 09/11/20 06:41 AM
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Originally Posted by joemikeb
Originally Posted by artie505
I don't remember exactly when, but unless I"ve lost it altogether, Apple bestowed upon us the ability to delete partitions from the drive into which we're booted, albeit with a strong data loss caveat, sometime back in OS X.

And you even suggested it in one of Rita's threads a while back but rejected the idea because of the potential for data loss.
If your have a spare bootable drive that is partitioned you are welcome to give it a try, but I think you will find you have to boot from the Recovery drive to do it. If I suggested it, I was having a senior moment at the time. 🤔

How to delete a hard-drive partition on a Mac spells out the procedure I had in mind for Rita...no booting into Recovery or even another volume required, but I didn't think erasing the partition first was necessary.

It would probably have required Rita's Sierra partition to have been the first partition on the drive.

I'd experiment, but I've got neither HFS+ capability nor the means to create it.

Originally Posted by joemikeb
Originally Posted by artie505
I don't get these uninstall utilities! I've got FindAnyFile set to show both visible and invisible files, and I run it with both the app and developer name, and I don't think any utility can find even as much as it finds without monitoring apps in real time to watch as they create new files.
The app you are referring to is no longer available, but I have found that some apps have multiple developer names and spray "stuff" all over the system. I usually find the detritus a couple of years later as orphan or unused files.

Find Any File is alive and well.

Indeed, there may be stuff that FAF can't find because we don't know to ask it to search for it, but it will find more of an app's detritus than any app removal app other than one that's tracking file creation in real time.

Originally Posted by joemikeb
Originally Posted by artie505
And finally, why wouldn't you want a clone? (You run CCC.) What are we supposed to do in the event of a catastrophe if we haven't got an Internet connection? Carry a RAID unit around with us?
Actually I have an iPhone and I can turn on a WiFi hotspot and download the Recovery Drive or Internet Recoverey Drive over the cellular network. I've done it. It is not terribly fast, but it works.

And what if you're in the boonies and have got neither cellular nor Internet service, which is hardly an unlikely situation?


The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire
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