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MalwareBytes Use the Full Protection or not?
#55389 07/24/20 05:56 PM
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kevs Offline OP
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I subscribed to the premium Malwarebytes. I'm doing scheduled scans, but curious others opinions: turn full protection/ on or off? I think when I test it on, then my clone software got real sluggish; and of course then you have a real anti virus going 24/ 7 right? Thanks.

Re: MalwareBytes Use the Full Protection or not?
kevs #55393 07/24/20 09:48 PM
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Originally Posted By: kevs
I subscribed to the premium Malwarebytes. I'm doing scheduled scans, but curious others opinions: turn full protection/ on or off? I think when I test it on, then my clone software got real sluggish; and of course then you have a real anti virus going 24/ 7 right? Thanks.

All I can say is there is no discernable performance hit on my Mac mini with MalwareByte's full protection enabled.


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Re: MalwareBytes Use the Full Protection or not?
joemikeb #55409 07/25/20 04:21 PM
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Thanks Joe, when doing clone backup? I tried 4am when asleep, too any issues as computer has to wake up etc.. in my room.

So back to cloning at 8am; and when I tried full protection cloning was taking 1-2 hours. but try again per your advice. Dave at SD does not believe in anti virus for Mac

I know if I don't put full protection on only getting scheduled scans (not fur 100% of the software, only 50%), but let's see if slows things down...

Re: MalwareBytes Use the Full Protection or not?
kevs #55424 07/26/20 02:50 PM
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My full clones, with MalwareBytes running, take 5 and a halr to 6 and a half minutes depending on the speed of the drive I am cloning to. With MalwareBytes off they still take the same length of time. (I use the "full clone" option in Carbon Copy Cloner.)


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Re: MalwareBytes Use the Full Protection or not?
joemikeb #55440 07/26/20 07:22 PM
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Thanks Joe, ok great. My clones Super Duper take 45 min and hour, called a "smart update' - any idea why, not good as CCC?

Re: MalwareBytes Use the Full Protection or not?
kevs #55443 07/26/20 09:38 PM
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Originally Posted By: kevs
Thanks Joe, ok great. My clones Super Duper take 45 min and hour, called a "smart update' - any idea why, not good as CCC?

Carbon Copy Cloner's Full Volume Clone takes advantage of an "under the hood" Catalina utility that works with the APFS file system and without any reference to the individual files. It runs in two steps
  1. The source volume structure replaces the volume structure on the target drive effectively totally erasing the target drive.
  2. The data from the source drive is moved en masse to the target drive
It has, until very recently, been in beta, so of course I had to try it, but the current version of CCC(Version 5.1.21-b1 (6045)) has dropped the beta warning from the option. CCC still offers the conventional Copy Some Files, and Copy All Files options which work on both HFS+ and APFS volumes, copy on a file-by-file basis, and take a lot longer.

The same utility is also available in Marcel Bresink's TinkerTool System version 6.89 (build 200610) at a much lower cost, but the user interface interface is nowhere nearly as good as CCC.


joemikeb • moderator
Re: MalwareBytes Use the Full Protection or not?
joemikeb #55457 07/28/20 01:38 AM
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Thanks Joe are you familiar with Super Duper though? That's what I'm on for long time and smart updates take an hour or so even though not much changed.

Re: MalwareBytes Use the Full Protection or not?
kevs #55459 07/28/20 02:08 AM
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An insolent question: You are using the paid version of SuperDuper!, aren't you?


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In Memory of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire
Re: MalwareBytes Use the Full Protection or not?
kevs #55461 07/28/20 12:53 PM
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Originally Posted By: keys
Thanks Joe are you familiar with Super Duper though? That's what I'm on for long time and smart updates take an hour or so even though not much changed.

Many years ago I started using CCC as my cloning utility because it was the ONLY one on the market. When SuperDuper out, I switched to it as I preferred SD's user interface. When Apple added the Recovery Drive I switched back to CCC because it handled the Recovery Drive and SD was slow getting on that bandwagon. Both SD and CCC did, and still do, a file-by-file clone which means that even when copying only the changed files, every file on both the Source and Target has to be...
  1. opened
  2. compared to see if there has been a change
  3. If there has been a change copied from the Source to the Target using the regular file replacement routines
  4. compared once more to be sure nothing went awry in the process
  5. in the end the clone is verified by once again comparing all the files to be sure they match
That all takes a LOT of CPU cycles and a LOT of disk input and output (the disk input and output takes the most time probably by an order of magnitude or two or three.) All of that is, of course, essential to a complete and accurate clone when it is done file-by-file.

The Apple command line utility that is used in CCC's Full Volume Clone is a game changer, that was enabled by the structure of the APFS file system, and eliminates most of the processing and all of the file back and forth to essentially a single operation. I seem to recall SD's developer expressing some reservations about it at one point, but that is a vague memory at best and you would have to ask him where he stand on it now. I know CCC has gone through a lot of versions getting it right, but has worked beautifully for me and I have had zero issues from the beginning.

By-the-way, I don't know if CCC's user interface has gotten better or I have just gotten used to it, but I find it informative and very usable. I prefer the full interface to the simple option.


joemikeb • moderator
Re: MalwareBytes Use the Full Protection or not?
joemikeb #55462 07/28/20 02:43 PM
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Great answer Joe. Do you know if SD has the Recovery thing down now?

You think for SD, that is then the norm, taking 1 hour to clone the Mac HD, even though not much has changed?

Been sticking with SD as the service is so great/personable but would that bug you taking so long for the clone?


Re: MalwareBytes Use the Full Protection or not?
kevs #55463 07/28/20 04:12 PM
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Originally Posted By: kevs
Great answer Joe. Do you know if SD has the Recovery thing down now?
I have no idea, but I would think it would have to.

Originally Posted By: keys
You think for SD, that is then the norm, taking 1 hour to clone the Mac HD, even though not much has changed?
It is the norm for a file-by-file clone no matter which app you are using; SD or CCC. Remember, Catalina has a few million files and each must be processed individually.

Originally Posted By: keys
Been sticking with SD as the service is so great/personable
Don't misunderstand me, I am not encouraging you to switch from SD to CCC or stay with SD. I related my experience with both. Both have well deserved reputations for responsive developers and they both have strong opinions, prejudices, and preferences. You won't go too far wrong with either. [b]In my experience[/I] it seems Mike Bombich, the developer of CCC, is quicker to adapt to Apple's evolving technologies and stays further out on the cutting edge, which is a better fit for me.

Originally Posted By: keys
...but would that bug you taking so long for the clone?
Taking that long to clone is not a deal breaker but why should I use a clone method that takes that long when there is an alternative method that takes a small fraction of the time and energy? In fact, it runs so quickly, I can run it on a bathroom break, without any additional interruption to my workflow. 🙆‍♂️


joemikeb • moderator
Re: MalwareBytes Use the Full Protection or not?
joemikeb #55465 07/28/20 05:19 PM
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Thanks Joe, well I did all these screenshots: Today the normal Mac HD backup 2 hours.. was going to send activity monitor screenshots ( which don't show any bit culprits)... but you say, don't bother.. thats the way it is currently SD.

And how is tech support CCC? Or maybe you don't use as much as I would.. I could ask.. thanks

Re: MalwareBytes Use the Full Protection or not?
kevs #55466 07/28/20 06:43 PM
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My experience with tech support at CCC has been excellent.


Jon

macOS 10.15.6, iMac Retina 5K 27-inch, late 2014, 3.5 GHz Intel Core i5, 1 TB fusion drive, 16 GB RAM, Epson SureColor P600, Photoshop CC, Lightroom CC, MS Office 365
Re: MalwareBytes Use the Full Protection or not?
jchuzi #55475 07/31/20 12:58 AM
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Joe, I got a reply from SD about this: "The Apple command line utility that is used in CCC's Full Volume Clone is a game changer"

He was not in agreement, I wanted to PM you, as probably not appropriate to post 3rd party emails.. but says private email disabled.

Re: MalwareBytes Use the Full Protection or not?
kevs #55484 07/31/20 04:35 PM
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As I said the two developers (CCC & SD) each have strong opinions and unsurprisingly, they are not always the same. The best developers almost always have strong opinions about new technology and they are seldom completely the same. In this case I have products (TinkerTool System and Carbon Copy Cloner) from two developers, Marcel Bresink and Mike Bombich (both of whom are famous for their Mac expertise and infamously opinionated) that use the same technique for creating clones.

In the end I can only judge from my own experience. CCC's Full Volume Clone is working well for me, but as I said, Mike Bombich went through a lot of iterations getting it right. Once again I don't think you will go far wrong with either SD or CCC.

Yes, PM is disabled on FineTunedMac.


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Re: MalwareBytes Use the Full Protection or not?
joemikeb #55486 07/31/20 04:46 PM
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Maybe I'm missing something, but how do you set CCC to do a full volume clone? Also, how long does it take? Doing an incremental clone takes anywhere from 3-7 minutes, depending on how many changes have to be updated.


Jon

macOS 10.15.6, iMac Retina 5K 27-inch, late 2014, 3.5 GHz Intel Core i5, 1 TB fusion drive, 16 GB RAM, Epson SureColor P600, Photoshop CC, Lightroom CC, MS Office 365
Re: MalwareBytes Use the Full Protection or not?
jchuzi #55487 07/31/20 05:05 PM
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My reading of the CCC Manual says only the first time you clone is it a full volume clone. All subsequent clones to and from the same disks are incremental by default. Unless you create a new task in CCC, the cloning will not be full.


On a Mac since 1984.
Currently: 27" iMacs, Macbook Air, macOS 10.15.x,; iPhones, iPods and iPads galore!
Re: MalwareBytes Use the Full Protection or not?
Ira L #55492 07/31/20 07:26 PM
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I've got one "Full Volume Clone" CCC task set up, i.e. selected from CCC's "Source" dropdown.

When I set it up it was specified that it would erase my destination volume every time it ran unless snapshots were enabled on said destination, in which case it would run incremental clones. (I've got it set to run incrementals, but the task still shows as "Full Volume Clone.")

In either case, Full Volume Clone is like lightning.

Last edited by artie505; 07/31/20 08:08 PM. Reason: Expand & clean up

The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

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Re: MalwareBytes Use the Full Protection or not?
artie505 #55496 07/31/20 09:17 PM
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Originally Posted By: artie505
I've got one "Full Volume Clone" CCC task set up, i.e. selected from CCC's "Source" dropdown.
Maybe I'm doing something wrong, but I don't see that option in the Source dropdown.


Jon

macOS 10.15.6, iMac Retina 5K 27-inch, late 2014, 3.5 GHz Intel Core i5, 1 TB fusion drive, 16 GB RAM, Epson SureColor P600, Photoshop CC, Lightroom CC, MS Office 365
Re: MalwareBytes Use the Full Protection or not?
jchuzi #55497 07/31/20 09:31 PM
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I see this in all instances.

"Full Volume Clone" is grayed out for one task, but it's the nature of the task that's responsible.

Oh, I just took a look and found that the Full Volume Clone option doesn't appear until after you've selected a source. Perhaps that's your problem?


The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire
Re: MalwareBytes Use the Full Protection or not?
artie505 #55498 07/31/20 10:49 PM
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I don't see that at all. There is a drop-down menu that gives a choice between Copy All Files and Copy Some Files but Full Volume Clone is not there. The default source is Macintosh HD.


Jon

macOS 10.15.6, iMac Retina 5K 27-inch, late 2014, 3.5 GHz Intel Core i5, 1 TB fusion drive, 16 GB RAM, Epson SureColor P600, Photoshop CC, Lightroom CC, MS Office 365
Re: MalwareBytes Use the Full Protection or not?
jchuzi #55499 07/31/20 10:56 PM
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I'm running CCC v 5.1.21-b1 (6045) in 10.15.6, but the option has been there for a bunch of iterations of both CCC and macOS.

I dunno. Time for tech support?


The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire
Re: MalwareBytes Use the Full Protection or not?
artie505 #55500 07/31/20 11:28 PM
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I'm running CCC 5.1.20 (6044) but I see that yours is a beta. When I have CCC check for updates, it tells me that this is the latest version. I guess that I'll have to take your advice about tech support.


Jon

macOS 10.15.6, iMac Retina 5K 27-inch, late 2014, 3.5 GHz Intel Core i5, 1 TB fusion drive, 16 GB RAM, Epson SureColor P600, Photoshop CC, Lightroom CC, MS Office 365
Re: MalwareBytes Use the Full Protection or not?
jchuzi #55501 07/31/20 11:34 PM
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Correct, I'm running the CCC beta.

It just occurred to me that maybe it's your fusion drive?

Maybe check CCC's manual before wasting tech support's time.

Update: I just checked CCC's manual and didn't see anything about fusion drives being any sort of issue. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Originally Posted By: CCC
Starting in macOS Catalina, CCC offers a Full Volume Clone method in the popup menu underneath the Source selector. This option is available when cloning an APFS volume (including encrypted APFS volumes and APFS volume groups) to a non-encrypted APFS volume.

Is your external formatted APFS or HFS+?


The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire
Re: MalwareBytes Use the Full Protection or not?
artie505 #55502 08/01/20 09:40 AM
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The external is formatted APFS.


Jon

macOS 10.15.6, iMac Retina 5K 27-inch, late 2014, 3.5 GHz Intel Core i5, 1 TB fusion drive, 16 GB RAM, Epson SureColor P600, Photoshop CC, Lightroom CC, MS Office 365
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