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Bizarre, upgrade Catalina, my Dock is gon
#54869 06/11/20 03:51 PM
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kevs Offline OP
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Totally wierd, I upgrade Catalina 2 weeks, everything ok, today just did normal reboot and it entered zone where asking to set up iclound and : first time ever my dock is gone, (complex dock) replaced with some Apple default dock.. WTF is this?

Re: Bizarre, upgrade Catalina, my Dock is gon
kevs #54870 06/11/20 03:58 PM
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On the reboot are you logged in to your "normal" user account?


On a Mac since 1984.
Currently: 24" M1 iMac, M2 Pro Mac mini with 27" BenQ monitor, M2 Macbook Air, MacOS 14.x; iPhones, iPods (yes, still) and iPads.
Re: Bizarre, upgrade Catalina, my Dock is gon
Ira L #54871 06/11/20 04:02 PM
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Yes, Ira, in normal user, not test or guest.

The dock is Apple default, so there, and lost my dock and all preferences of every app, and dock item. And I've never seen such chaos day to day for an OS update in 15 years. Does this end will keep on going for weeks?

Re: Bizarre, upgrade Catalina, my Dock is gon
kevs #54874 06/11/20 06:14 PM
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Have you been using an app to customize your dock, or has it always been a customized version of the one that came from Apple, i.e. did some app fail to launch, resulting in what you see now?


The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire
Re: Bizarre, upgrade Catalina, my Dock is gon
artie505 #54875 06/11/20 06:34 PM
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Right before this happened, I had call with Adobe in India, and we were trying to use their screen share app, but it failed. I would not think this is cullprit, as Catalina has dock issue and etc, but I do still see something popping up in Activity monitor called screen share, which is crazy as no app exist.... lost

All Mac, internet passwords and preference lost system wide. That said because of 64 bit also Photoshop lost all keyboard shortcut, preference, and tool, and workspaces- have to redo them all manually.

Last edited by kevs; 06/11/20 06:50 PM.
Re: Bizarre, upgrade Catalina, my Dock is gon
kevs #54876 06/11/20 07:45 PM
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You don't have either a clone or Time Machine backup to revert to?


The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire
Re: Bizarre, upgrade Catalina, my Dock is gon
artie505 #54877 06/11/20 08:33 PM
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Originally Posted By: artie505
You don't have either a clone or Time Machine backup to revert to?

iCloud synch would have saved all the settings as well.


If we knew what it was we were doing, it wouldn't be called research, would it?

— Albert Einstein
Re: Bizarre, upgrade Catalina, my Dock is gon
joemikeb #54878 06/11/20 11:08 PM
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Thanks Joe, this has never happened so I would not even know what to find to do the restore...I'm still only 1/3 way to recreating the dock and the system prefs, so if you tell me what to do I'll give it a try. (icloud sync, what/ where/ TM?) As Ira smartly asked, I am in same user and all... oddly when screen came up after this reboot, they had me set up icloud like never heard of me before.

I'm not sorry I upgraded to Catalina, you gotta do it sometimes.

Maybe no way out? Being 64 bit.. was thinking maybe way of Apple/ Mac, saying wao, you have to go through this for 64 bit.

That's what Adobe is saying. For first time ever Adobe says (and least this guy from India today) I cannot bring over preferences/ settings from past Photothsop version. Seems crazy, to make all settings, shortcuts and workspaces from scratch, but guy from India / Adobe said that.

Also this happened when he told me to reboot. You see even after 3rd phone call and 2nd screenshare app, we could not get their screenshare app to work. coincidence? I'm hoping just coincidence. Downloaded it twice and tried to connect, no go. Then he said reboots, and voila.

Last edited by kevs; 06/11/20 11:09 PM.
Re: Bizarre, upgrade Catalina, my Dock is gon
kevs #54879 06/12/20 02:20 PM
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This won't restore what you have already lost but it could be a preventative for future settings loss:

If you have ever purchased anything from Apple's App Store, you have an Apple ID and password. Along with that you get a 5GB iCloud Drive account which you can use to store and restore most settings for all things Apple. Your Apple ID and password are all you need.
  1. in System Preferences click on Apple ID at the top right of the window
  2. Verify you are logged on to your Apple ID and your account settings are correct.
  3. Select iCloud in the sidebar of that window
  4. You will see a list of Apps on this mac, the settings — and content — for each of the apps that you check will be mirrored on your iCloud Drive.
  5. iCloud Drive - Options: a list of apps that store documents and data in iCloud are listed.
    • The first item on the list is Desktop and Documents Folders which is the full contents of the desktop and documents folders in your user account and includes settings like your customized Dock. CAUTION: Desktop and Documents can quickly exceed the capacity of the free 5GB iCloud Drive resulting in a monthly charge for additional iCloud Drive space.
    • Toward the bottom of the iCloud Drive list you will find System Preferences, you definitely want System Preferences checked.
  6. Once all of this is turned on your settings are mirrored on iCloud and if those settings are lost or damaged through an update or upgrade are automatically restored from iCloud with no further action required on your part.
I have used this for several years, through several Macs, and at the moment I have two Macs, sharing the same settings and with certain exceptions such as screen savers and desktops all of the major settings on both remain absolutely in synch. Even a clean install loads with the same identical settings as well as the contents of both the Desktop and Documents folders once System Preferences > iCloud is turned on.


If we knew what it was we were doing, it wouldn't be called research, would it?

— Albert Einstein
Re: Bizarre, upgrade Catalina, my Dock is gon
joemikeb #54887 06/13/20 08:02 PM
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Thanks JOe, have never looked here in Apple ID upper right, but other version had less sophisticated way to see this.

Everything is checked except Desktop and documents.

I pay the 1$ month to get the 50GB, but

anyway I have this unchecked. All others checked. I put put data in my own Kevs data folder for years, can't remember why I did that now.

And desktop, I've learned, but also can't remember why! That mirroring the two desktops leads to massive chaos which several Apple tech confirmed, hence I would be out of luck restoring docks? right? But ok, just restore them over a month.

Any idea whey this happened? Has not happened yet on the laptop.. Did the Adobe download do this?

Re: Bizarre, upgrade Catalina, my Dock is gon
kevs #54889 06/13/20 09:03 PM
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Originally Posted By: kevs
And desktop, I've learned, but also can't remember why! That mirroring the two desktops leads to massive chaos which several Apple tech confirmed, hence I would be out of luck restoring docks? right? But ok, just restore them over a month.

Any idea whey this happened? Has not happened yet on the laptop.. Did the Adobe download do this?

If the two desktops are identical, as mine are, there should be no issue, but if you are trying to mirror two different desktops on the same iCloud account I can see how that would create conflict at the very least. The entire idea is based on replicating the Desktop and Documents folders between different devices.

As to what happened to your complex Dock all I can say is Apple used to recommend everyone do a full backup before an upgrade or update— just in case, and really only dropped that with the advent of Time Machine and, I suspect, the assumption that everyone would have a relatively current Time Machine backup to restore from. (Although the way things have moved round in Catalina I would be hard put to know what to restore from where in the case of your "Complex Dock" whatever that entails.)


If we knew what it was we were doing, it wouldn't be called research, would it?

— Albert Einstein
Re: Bizarre, upgrade Catalina, my Dock is gon
joemikeb #54890 06/13/20 09:10 PM
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kevs Offline OP
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Thanks JOe, I was mirroring desktop for awhile and chaos ensued so stopped, and it's fine as laptop needs are very different anyway.

It's Ok, this ordeal forced me to purge/ trim app folders.

Laptop has still not been forced to a new update but I'm sure it will later.. Catalina I think is more glitchey than normal because of 64 bit issue is one of the more glitchy upgrades, but not as bad as the OS 9 early OS 10 era.

REmember Disc Warrior is that still around?... So thing are overall better these days.

BTW, Malwwaye Btyes, says to just schedule 1x a day, and additional machines are only $10 year extra...

Re: Bizarre, upgrade Catalina, my Dock is gon
kevs #54891 06/13/20 10:49 PM
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Originally Posted By: kevs
Catalina I think is more glitchey than normal because of 64 bit issue is one of the more glitchy upgrades, but not as bad as the OS 9 early OS 10 era.

I have not found Catalina to be more glitchy, but because of the mandatory conversion to the APFS file system, the system being moved into its own read only volume, separate from third party apps and anything belonging to the user in another volume altogether, and lots of preferences etc. being moved deep deep into the bowels of the directory structure, AND the 64 bit issue there has been some (a lot of❓) confusion. There are future compatibility issues with some kernel extensions probably coming in Mac OS 10.16 (in anticipation of a conversion to ARM processors instead of Intel? 🤷‍♂️) but there aren't many of those. Third party developers are waiting for Apple to finish documenting the new APIs (which will hopefully happen before the 22nd fo this month when they get their hands on the first Developer beta of MacOS 10.16). I'm eager(?) to see what the first public beta of MacOS 10.06 breaks.

Originally Posted By: keys=
REmember Disc Warrior is that still around?... So thing are overall better these days.

Diskwarrior is still around, but they have not caught up with APFS yet. But like TechTool Pro and Drive Genius it is so seldom needed that many (most?) users are no longer keeping it up to date on the premise they will buy it if and when they need it and not before. (Not to mention the disk and file optimization stuff we used to do no longer makes any sense on SSDs and arguably may shorten an SSDs lifespan and even make the data less secure.) There is an entire dictionary of routines we used to do prophylactically that we have forgotten about, as MacOS has become so stable they are pointless.

Originally Posted By: keys
BTW, Malwwaye Btyes, says to just schedule 1x a day, and additional machines are only $10 year extra...

Whatever, I will stick with my three hour routine as it doesn't hurt anything and has an undetectable effect on performance.


If we knew what it was we were doing, it wouldn't be called research, would it?

— Albert Einstein
Re: Bizarre, upgrade Catalina, my Dock is gon
joemikeb #54892 06/13/20 11:57 PM
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kevs Offline OP
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Joe thanks...Ah, Malware byte, ok, I'll ask . so once a day too little, that was just this one reps recommendation..

I'll also ask about iphone, ipad.. at only $10 year additional device maybe good idea?

Yeah, discwarrior and TEch Tool, reminds me of when Canon Digital cameras came out you and needed to get real good 3rd party tool to clean sensor, vital, and then finally Canon invented self cleaning sensors.

Re: Bizarre, upgrade Catalina, my Dock is gon
kevs #54895 06/14/20 01:42 PM
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MalwareBytes is a very different proposition on iOS/iPadOS. It does not scan for malware (so far no one has figured out how to install malware without going through the App Store and there is no directory or file structure to target the scan). Instead it
  • blocks phone calls from known spammers/advertisers (which is not easy because the worst spammers never use the same phone number twice)
  • blocks spoofed phone calls (calls that appear to be from a local number similar to yours but are not)
  • Blocks access to websites that contain scams
  • blocks "annoying" ads from Safari
  • Blocks ad trackers
  • Filters text messages by diverting suspicious texts to a separate "Unknown & Junk Folder".
The App may cost $10 (I don't honestly know because I bought it too long ago to remember) but full "Premium" functionality requires a subscription ($1.49 /month or $11.99/year). It has replaced a suite of other apps on my iPhone and iPad but the only unique feature is Text Message filtering.

Your Canon Digital Camera analogy is not quite on. Apple hasn't added new features that eliminated the need of third party repair apps, rather they have figured out why the glitches were occurring in the first place and tweaked the OS internals to dramatically reduce or eliminate entirely the opportunity/likelihood of their occurring. SSDs and APFS are are game changers because they are no longer constrained by the mechanical functioning and limitations of disk drives (a.k.a. Rotating Rust). It will be interesting to see what DiskWarrior finally comes up with and whether or not it will be worthwhile.


If we knew what it was we were doing, it wouldn't be called research, would it?

— Albert Einstein
Re: Bizarre, upgrade Catalina, my Dock is gon
joemikeb #54898 06/14/20 09:29 PM
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kevs Offline OP
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Thanks Joe - so then you recommend the Malware bytes $12 year for both iphnoe and ipad- or just iphone? ( I have ipad pro use more rarely)

Any worry of false negs or positives on text or phone filtering.. but say they do keep in a folder for review

Re: Bizarre, upgrade Catalina, my Dock is gon
kevs #54901 06/14/20 11:18 PM
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Originally Posted By: keys
Thanks Joe - so then you recommend the Malware bytes $12 year for both iphnoe and ipad- or just iphone? ( I have ipad pro use more rarely)

Any worry of false negs or positives on text or phone filtering.. but say they do keep in a folder for review

It is working well for me on my iPhone as I said. It replaced three other apps, all of which had subscription fees, so there was a cost savings. I still get the rare spoofed call wanting to sell me a long term maintenance policy on my car or similar, but in today's marketing environment I suppose that is inevitable. (I have learned that not even a total whitelist environment can provide 100% protection against spoofers.) Because of the way MalwareBytes works with texts, I know for certain there have been no false positives or negatives there, and the ad blocking appears to work as well as any short of using TOR (and I haven't found a really satisfactory version of TOR on the iPhone).

As to its use on the iPad, there is of course no call blocking, so it is less functional but it is still a decent ad blocker and there isn't a lot of choice on either iOS or iPadOS.


If we knew what it was we were doing, it wouldn't be called research, would it?

— Albert Einstein

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