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Re: I'm back about partitioning
artie505 #54252 04/22/20 04:46 PM
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I tried the command+option+R thing. It brought up a black screen with a spinning globe of the earth. Below that it said "Choose Network". It had a drop down box with a check mark and an x. Below that box was another one with three dots. I clicked on the dots and got another two more drop down boxes. The top one showed a wifi icon and a box to fill in something. I tried my network name and it didn't work (you know that little jerk it does when the word put in isn't correct?). So then I put in my router password. It didn't react with a jerk so I thought I was getting somewhere. Below that was a box with a lock symbol and a space to type something in, but it wouldn't take anything. Below that was an "X" next to a check mark. No more action. I had to reboot to get out of that page. Escape didn't work.

I've run into this globe page before in the past when trying to do something.



Originally Posted By: artie505
Originally Posted By: artie505
Confirmation, please.

Rita experienced her same issue with Amazon with Safari while booted into Recovery. Am I correct in assuming that that takes her OS totally off the hook?

Thanks.

Originally Posted By: plantsower
Thanks for putting that out there. Firefox doesn't work properly either, remember? I hope we can find a solution to all this. I know upgrading is what most people want me to do, but obviously some people can use High Sierra without problems. Maybe I can just go up a notch. Can anyone send me a link to High Sierra so I can try that? If so, will it just update my Sierra or do I have to use migration assistant if I want all the same apps I have now?

As respects that experiment, Firefox is academic, but in keeping with joemike's recent post let's give Recovery > Safari one more shot, but this time use a command-option-R boot, and let's see what happens. (I'm not the least bit optimistic, but let's play out all the options.)

The "Get from App Store" link on this MacUpdate page takes me to the App Store page from which you can d/l High Sierra.

If you d/l and run the installer from within Sierra 2015 it will point to Sierra 2015 by default and upgrade it with no loss of data or apps.

But again, let's hold off on that until we run out of other options.


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Re: I'm back about partitioning
artie505 #54257 04/22/20 06:27 PM
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Well, well, well. After all of that, guess what? I went to Starbucks, and Amazon worked perfectly on Safari and Firefox. Now what? Call my ISP and ask if they changed anything? Go into my networks and see if I should change something?

Update: Of course our friend who has the same ISP says it works on his High Sierra, but it doesn't work on my husband's High Sierra. So, it's still a big mystery!!!



Originally Posted By: artie505
Originally Posted By: joemikeb
Rita is there a Starbucks or similar nearby that you might go and park outside the store, but your Mac is in range of their WiFi and see if the problem persists? I was out this morning and stopped in front of a Starbucks and my iPhone immediately connected to their WiFi so it is working even if the store is closed but the drive through is open. That test would be VERY informative.

Precisely what I was thinking but didn't post quickly enough!

Last edited by plantsower; 04/22/20 06:29 PM.

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Re: I'm back about partitioning
plantsower #54258 04/22/20 08:21 PM
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Originally Posted By: plantsower
Well, well, well. After all of that, guess what? I went to Starbucks, and Amazon worked perfectly on Safari and Firefox. Now what? Call my ISP and ask if they changed anything? Go into my networks and see if I should change something?

The fact your friend with the same ISP has no problem would seem to eliminate the ISP. You have already tested the DNS server and eliminated it. The only thing that hasn't been eliminated is your router although that seems an unlikely cause. But as Sherlock Holmes famously said, "When all the possible solutions have been eliminated all that remains is the impossible" or words to that effect. Unfortunately that is not subject to anything you can change or modify on your computer and the only way I know of to test the theory is to replace the router and there is no guarantee that would work.

Lifewire's 10 best router list for 2020 appealed to my tastes, but there are certainly other top 10 lists and other routers. In my opinion a mesh router beats a router with repeater(s) hands down particularly if you have a multi-story or rambling ranch style house. It isn't on the top 10 list but I really like my Plume router which has a unique mesh router solution and is supporting 25 or 30 devices flawlessly.


If we knew what it was we were doing, it wouldn't be called research, would it?

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Re: I'm back about partitioning
joemikeb #54259 04/22/20 09:16 PM
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🤦🏻‍♂️🤦🏻‍♂️🤦🏻‍♂️ That's three dopeslaps to me. Contact your ISP and see if they can provide a WiFi Router/modem (that is a router and modem in the same case). They would install it so you wouldn't have to worry about setup and IF that does not solve the problem you could...
  1. get them involved in the troubleshooting
  2. Tell them to take it back and you would not be out any money


If we knew what it was we were doing, it wouldn't be called research, would it?

— Albert Einstein
Re: I'm back about partitioning
joemikeb #54260 04/22/20 09:48 PM
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I called my ISP (small company and I talked to the owner). He said nothing has changed on his end. I did find out something interesting, though. Even though I tried Safari and Firefox, I neglected to test Tor. When I did, I had no problems pulling up the reviews. It's just normal like it was before with Safari and Firefox. I am hoping that is some sort of clue!

Regarding the router, I've heard it's better not to incorporate it with the modem and I forget why. Maybe because if it goes bad, you don't know if it's the router or the modem? Anyway, if push comes to shove, I will first update my firmware and if that doesn't make a difference, I will get a new router at least. But I thought it was interesting that I have no review problems on Tor of all things!



Originally Posted By: joemikeb
🤦🏻‍♂️🤦🏻‍♂️🤦🏻‍♂️ That's three dopeslaps to me. Contact your ISP and see if they can provide a WiFi Router/modem (that is a router and modem in the same case). They would install it so you wouldn't have to worry about setup and IF that does not solve the problem you could...
  1. get them involved in the troubleshooting
  2. Tell them to take it back and you would not be out any money


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Re: I'm back about partitioning
plantsower #54261 04/22/20 10:45 PM
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The TOR (The Onion Router) is a major clue! It is designed to connect to and route all its traffic through the TOR network which is established automatically when TOR launches. It effectively bypasses your local router's functionality when accessing the web. I REPEAT: It effectively bypasses your local router's functionality..

The improbable solution, your router, has become the prime suspect. Then there is th: update or replace decision. All things considered replacement is probably your best solution.


If we knew what it was we were doing, it wouldn't be called research, would it?

— Albert Einstein
Re: I'm back about partitioning
joemikeb #54262 04/22/20 10:56 PM
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I think this may now be pertinent...

I noticed that when Rita clicks on the 5 star reviews, the weird .dms file she gets has got a "5" in its name, suggesting that rather than accessing the reviews themselves she's accessing the underlying data.

Is it possible that her IP address is somehow getting her into the wrong "level" at Amazon, and when Tor hides her address she gets into the correct level?

Is this, then, a job for Amazon tech support?


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In Memory of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire
Re: I'm back about partitioning
artie505 #54263 04/22/20 11:51 PM
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I tried to get this information to Amazon tech support days ago. But if you've ever dealt with Amazon customer service (which is everywhere but in the USA for now) you get nowhere fast. Finally, after talking to a third person, they said they would report it to tech. That may or may not happen. I'm not holding my breath.




Originally Posted By: artie505
I think this may now be pertinent...

I noticed that when Rita clicks on the 5 star reviews, the weird .dms file she gets has got a "5" in its name, suggesting that rather than accessing the reviews themselves she's accessing the underlying data.

Is it possible that her IP address is somehow getting her into the wrong "level" at Amazon, and when Tor hides her address she gets into the correct level?

Is this, then, a job for Amazon tech support?


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Re: I'm back about partitioning
joemikeb #54264 04/22/20 11:54 PM
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OK. I will talk with my husband about it. Normally I make these decisions, but if I don't do it correctly and we can't get internet, I will have to live with Mr. Grumpy until it's fixed! I also will contact my ISP and ask for another router or ask which one they would suggest. I will also ask them to come fix it if I goof up. Thanks for the suggestion and maybe the total possible answer!


Originally Posted By: joemikeb
The TOR (The Onion Router) is a major clue! It is designed to connect to and route all its traffic through the TOR network which is established automatically when TOR launches. It effectively bypasses your local router's functionality when accessing the web. I REPEAT: It effectively bypasses your local router's functionality..

The improbable solution, your router, has become the prime suspect. Then there is th: update or replace decision. All things considered replacement is probably your best solution.


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Re: I'm back about partitioning
joemikeb #54265 04/23/20 12:18 AM
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I am numbering my questions so they can both be answered.

I texted my ISP guy. He suggested Netgear for a router.

1) Is that really the best?

I don't want the most expensive router. Just a middle of the road one that will work. I live in a one-story, 1400 square foot house, no upstairs. The old Belkin router I have takes care of the whole house.

I do know that we can't both use the Firestick at the same time. My internet is fast enough for me, but it's only a little over 1 to 2 megabits/second for downloading. (I'm used to much slower internet speed, so this is speedy for me.)

2) Would a newer, faster router make it possible to maybe be able to use both firesticks at the same time?

Addendum: I just looked at the plume router link but don't see a price. I don't want to pay a yearly fee. I am looking at the ten best routers next but usually always pick by price.



Originally Posted By: joemikeb
The TOR (The Onion Router) is a major clue! It is designed to connect to and route all its traffic through the TOR network which is established automatically when TOR launches. It effectively bypasses your local router's functionality when accessing the web. I REPEAT: It effectively bypasses your local router's functionality..

The improbable solution, your router, has become the prime suspect. Then there is th: update or replace decision. All things considered replacement is probably your best solution.

Last edited by plantsower; 04/23/20 12:22 AM.

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Re: I'm back about partitioning
joemikeb #54266 04/23/20 12:44 AM
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I know I'm cheaping out, but plenty of people seem to be happy with this router. I also have TP-Link power adapters so maybe this is a good choice. TP-Link Router
Originally Posted By: joemikeb
Originally Posted By: plantsower
Well, well, well. After all of that, guess what? I went to Starbucks, and Amazon worked perfectly on Safari and Firefox. Now what? Call my ISP and ask if they changed anything? Go into my networks and see if I should change something?

The fact your friend with the same ISP has no problem would seem to eliminate the ISP. You have already tested the DNS server and eliminated it. The only thing that hasn't been eliminated is your router although that seems an unlikely cause. But as Sherlock Holmes famously said, "When all the possible solutions have been eliminated all that remains is the impossible" or words to that effect. Unfortunately that is not subject to anything you can change or modify on your computer and the only way I know of to test the theory is to replace the router and there is no guarantee that would work.

Lifewire's 10 best router list for 2020 appealed to my tastes, but there are certainly other top 10 lists and other routers. In my opinion a mesh router beats a router with repeater(s) hands down particularly if you have a multi-story or rambling ranch style house. It isn't on the top 10 list but I really like my Plume router which has a unique mesh router solution and is supporting 25 or 30 devices flawlessly.


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Re: I'm back about partitioning
plantsower #54267 04/23/20 01:15 AM
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Hi Rita, let me chime in here......for your needs as you have described them, the TP-Link 1200 router you've linked to should be adequate. I personally would always go just a little bit better than "adequate" with the idea that you won't always stay at the same level of need, and maybe you might want just a little overhead space for increased capacity.

So might I suggest you take a look at the Next step up as a possible consideration.

The price is close to your original choice and the reviews are just as good or better.

Let us know.


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Re: I'm back about partitioning
MacManiac #54268 04/23/20 03:01 AM
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I looked at the router. I can't tell much difference except maybe it covers more square footage and it will allow VPN access. Do they not all do this, (vpn access).

It's close enough in price that I can go with it. I just don't know what to look for as far as it having a little more capability. I am not interested in Alexa.

Thanks for your input. Reading the negative reviews is scary but that's with anything.



Originally Posted By: MacManiac
Hi Rita, let me chime in here......for your needs as you have described them, the TP-Link 1200 router you've linked to should be adequate. I personally would always go just a little bit better than "adequate" with the idea that you won't always stay at the same level of need, and maybe you might want just a little overhead space for increased capacity.

So might I suggest you take a look at the Next step up as a possible consideration.

The price is close to your original choice and the reviews are just as good or better.

Let us know.


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Re: I'm back about partitioning
plantsower #54269 04/23/20 03:34 AM
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Hi, Rita,

All this router stuff is way beyond me, so back to troubleshooting so if/when you upgrade you won't run into any problems.

After all you've done, do you still get a prohibited sign when you try to boot into Mavericks?


The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire
Re: I'm back about partitioning
artie505 #54271 04/23/20 03:50 AM
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I was not able to use the command-option-R boot without getting that globe thing I mentioned. So, I wasn't able to run disk utility in that mode. Otherwise, yes I still got the prohibited sign when I checked Mavericks the other way after running DU.



Originally Posted By: artie505
Hi, Rita,

All this router stuff is way beyond me, so back to troubleshooting so if/when you upgrade you won't run into any problems.

After all you've done, do you still get a prohibited sign when you try to boot into Mavericks?


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Re: I'm back about partitioning
plantsower #54273 04/23/20 04:35 AM
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I'm going to check out command-option-R just for the heck of seeing what you ran into.

But regardless, before you upgrade I think it will pay you to run a "surface scan" on your external to eliminate a possible root cause of that prohibited sign, which just plain should not be happening. You don't want that drive to be compromised while you're into the upgrade process, because it's your backup.

Please copy & paste "diskutil list" (withOUT the quotes) into /System/Applications/Utilities/Terminal and post your results. (Don't forget to edit out your name if it's there.)

And now for dinner! smile crazy


The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire
Re: I'm back about partitioning
plantsower #54274 04/23/20 06:04 AM
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Originally Posted By: plantsower
I tried the command+option+R thing. It brought up a black screen with a spinning globe of the earth. Below that it said "Choose Network". It had a drop down box with a check mark and an x. Below that box was another one with three dots. I clicked on the dots and got another two more drop down boxes. The top one showed a wifi icon and a box to fill in something. I tried my network name and it didn't work (you know that little jerk it does when the word put in isn't correct?). So then I put in my router password. It didn't react with a jerk so I thought I was getting somewhere. Below that was a box with a lock symbol and a space to type something in, but it wouldn't take anything. Below that was an "X" next to a check mark. No more action. I had to reboot to get out of that page. Escape didn't work.

Hmmm... I wonder if that whole rigamarole is a sign of a router problem.

When I just did a command-option-R boot I didn't have to select a network. My network was automatically selected and its password was automatically entered.


The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire
Re: I'm back about partitioning
artie505 #54275 04/23/20 02:57 PM
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I have had both experiences with ⌥⌘R and IIRC the first time I used it was when I had to click on the network icon, select my network, and logon. The next time it just logged on, but I wouldn't swear to that.

Regarding Routers:
  • Unless you are a serious online game player with a dedicated game playing computer you are unlikely to ever use the maximum speed available
  • The average user will get the best experience from a router that provides low latency
  • The claimed range and speed of routers is measured under ideal condiitons in a lab and has little to do with real world performance
  • Combined router/modems generally belong to the ISP and are rented by the user, so if either side breaks the device is replaced by the ISP at no cost to the user
You seem to have a good relationship with your ISP, talk to him and see what, if anything, he has to offer. It might save headaches in the future.


If we knew what it was we were doing, it wouldn't be called research, would it?

— Albert Einstein
Re: I'm back about partitioning
joemikeb #54276 04/23/20 03:12 PM
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Originally Posted By: joemikeb
I have had both experiences with ⌥⌘R and IIRC the first time I used it was when I had to click on the network icon, select my network, and logon. The next time it just logged on, but I wouldn't swear to that.

I've got a feeling that I may have tried ⌥⌘R in the past, but I'm not sure either if, when. or how it went down, and IF I did, it was several computers ago (if that means anything).

Under any circumstances, though, the difference between my and Rita's experiences was worth mentioning.


The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire
Re: I'm back about partitioning
artie505 #54278 04/23/20 05:09 PM
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You mean use terminal for my internal drive? This is what I got:

Last login: Thu Apr 23 11:05:19 on console
MacBook-Pro:~ (my name)$ diskutil list
/dev/disk0 (internal, physical):
#: TYPE NAME SIZE IDENTIFIER
0: GUID_partition_scheme *121.3 GB disk0
1: EFI EFI 209.7 MB disk0s1
2: Apple_HFS Macintosh HD 46.3 GB disk0s2
3: Apple_Boot Recovery HD 650.0 MB disk0s3
4: Apple_HFS Catalina 44.1 GB disk0s4
5: Apple_HFS Mojave 29.8 GB disk0s5



Originally Posted By: artie505
I'm going to check out command-option-R just for the heck of seeing what you ran into.

But regardless, before you upgrade I think it will pay you to run a "surface scan" on your external to eliminate a possible root cause of that prohibited sign, which just plain should not be happening. You don't want that drive to be compromised while you're into the upgrade process, because it's your backup.

Please copy & paste "diskutil list" (withOUT the quotes) into /System/Applications/Utilities/Terminal and post your results. (Don't forget to edit out your name if it's there.)

And now for dinner! smile crazy


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Re: I'm back about partitioning
artie505 #54279 04/23/20 05:13 PM
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That's never been the case for me, even when I first got this mac almost 3 years ago. I always get that globe and drop downs that I can't do anything with.

When I just did a command-option-R boot I didn't have to select a network. My network was automatically selected and its password was automatically entered. [/quote]


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Re: I'm back about partitioning
plantsower #54280 04/23/20 05:15 PM
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Sorry for not being explicit, Rita.

I meant with your external connected. It's the external I think you to examine.

So run the command in Sierra 2015 but with your external connected. That will give you results for both your internal and external.

By the way, what's in the Mojave and Catalina partitions? Did you install them?


The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire
Re: I'm back about partitioning
joemikeb #54281 04/23/20 05:15 PM
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My ISP guy only suggested Netgear. He doesn't supply the router though I think he did the first time and the modem. That's why I was asking for ideas about routers. I'm probably going to get a cheap TP-Link router for now.


Originally Posted By: joemikeb
I have had both experiences with ⌥⌘R and IIRC the first time I used it was when I had to click on the network icon, select my network, and logon. The next time it just logged on, but I wouldn't swear to that.

Regarding Routers:
  • Unless you are a serious online game player with a dedicated game playing computer you are unlikely to ever use the maximum speed available
  • The average user will get the best experience from a router that provides low latency
  • The claimed range and speed of routers is measured under ideal condiitons in a lab and has little to do with real world performance
  • Combined router/modems generally belong to the ISP and are rented by the user, so if either side breaks the device is replaced by the ISP at no cost to the user
You seem to have a good relationship with your ISP, talk to him and see what, if anything, he has to offer. It might save headaches in the future.


MacBook Pro - M2, Ventura 13.6
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Safari 16.6
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Re: I'm back about partitioning
artie505 #54282 04/23/20 05:21 PM
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I knew you would ask about Mojave and Catalina! No, it's just the names of the partitions. I'm not sure what I am going to do yet about upgrading. OK, I'm going to Sierra 2015 on my external and do the terminal thing again.

Originally Posted By: artie505
Sorry for not being explicit, Rita.

I meant with your external connected. It's the external I think you to examine.

So run the command in Sierra 2015 but with your external connected. That will give you results for both your internal and external.

By the way, what's in the Mojave and Catalina partitions? Did you install them?


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Re: I'm back about partitioning
artie505 #54283 04/23/20 05:31 PM
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OK, here's the report on the external drive: Last login: Thu Apr 23 11:25:00 on console
MacBook-Pro:~ (MYNAME)$ diskutil list
/dev/disk0 (internal, physical):
#: TYPE NAME SIZE IDENTIFIER
0: GUID_partition_scheme *121.3 GB disk0
1: EFI EFI 209.7 MB disk0s1
2: Apple_HFS Macintosh HD 46.3 GB disk0s2
3: Apple_Boot Recovery HD 650.0 MB disk0s3
4: Apple_HFS Catalina 44.1 GB disk0s4
5: Apple_HFS Mojave 29.8 GB disk0s5

/dev/disk1 (external, physical):
#: TYPE NAME SIZE IDENTIFIER
0: GUID_partition_scheme *1.0 TB disk1
1: EFI EFI 209.7 MB disk1s1
2: Apple_HFS 333.4 GB disk1s2
3: Apple_HFS Mavericks 333.4 GB disk1s3
4: Apple_HFS 2015 Sierra MBP 75.4 GB disk1s4
5: Apple_HFS 2012 MBP Sierra 257.3 GB disk1s5




Originally Posted By: artie505
Sorry for not being explicit, Rita.

I meant with your external connected. It's the external I think you to examine.

So run the command in Sierra 2015 but with your external connected. That will give you results for both your internal and external.

By the way, what's in the Mojave and Catalina partitions? Did you install them?


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