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Coronavirus information: assorted web links
#53723 03/19/20 04:29 PM
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Considering the adage Knowledge is Power, I think it might be helpful to provide a collection of web links about the Corona virus/COVID-19 that could help our FineTunedMac community assess and better understand the current pandemic, and what it means to them and the various other communities they’re part of.

It can also help dispel rather ubiquitous mis- and disinformation on the topic. In addition to this, the current pandemic offers new opportunities for various malfeasants targeting those looking for information on the internet. One example is described HERE, but I’m sure there are many others. Be careful out there!

To get you going, here are a few links I found quite useful:

- Coronavirus articles on Medium* made available freely by Medium
- Coronavirus information page compiled by MacInTouch/Ric Ford
- Coronavirus map of the US: latest cases state by state by The Guardian
- Hour by hour: the spread of the coronavirus across the globe. Interactive map by Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty

*) A particularly helpful overview is Tomas Pueyo’s Coronavirus: Why You Must Act Now. This has been updated at least once, and may be again.

**) I cannot guarantee that there is no bad info in the above links, but they are well curated. Please use your common sense and check multiple reputable sources for verification.

Note that
(1) most of these pages are updated regularly, so it pays to check back, and
(2) they are currently freely accessible, i.e., not behind a paywall.


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Re: Coronavirus information: assorted web links
alternaut #53726 03/19/20 10:33 PM
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Thanks for posting those sites. Very informative and better than anything coming out of DC these days.

There is a statistic missing however. While the absolute number of infections and deaths is interesting, the RATE OF INFECTION (infections per say 100,000 population) and the RATE OF DEATH as well as the RATE and VECTOR of change in those numbers would tell far more about progress in containing and managing the infections. On the other hand it is a given that the absolute numbers in many countries are questionable if not outright bogus. (That is not a criticism of the reporting sites, it is a commentary on governments that might mis-report to hide of deny the true facts.)



"Sacred cows make the best hamburger"

- Mark Twain
Re: Coronavirus information: assorted web links
joemikeb #53727 03/19/20 11:40 PM
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Originally Posted By: joemikeb
There is a statistic missing however. [...] RATE

The biggest problem with that statistic is the number of infected people, which determines the other variables you mention. Accuracy here requires for everyone to be tested, because many of those infected only show minor symptoms. This makes all available numbers everywhere iffy, even without resorting to ‘massaging’ the data some governments are suspected of.

Right now, such wholesale testing is not going to happen, but the actual number of infected people may be estimated after the fact, e.g., by determining anti-COVID-19 antibody presence in the population. The underlying mechanism is that whomever has been exposed to COVID-19 produced antibodies to the virus, regardless of their symptoms. (This may actually be more accurate than the COVID-19 test data, because people may get infected after having that test, and hence not be counted there.) In the case of SARS1 (COVID-19 = SARS2), such antibodies are readily detected even now, almost 2 decades after the 2003 outbreak. Of course, it requires another test, while yet other population measurements during/after the current pandemic may be accurate enough for such estimates, as well as for other purposes.

With regard to the other part of the RATE equations, the number of dead is more obvious, but also dependent on the medical characteristics of the target group, as well as on timely available medical care, both major variables. We’ll learn a lot about those in the near future, but it will take a while. tongue


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Re: Coronavirus information: assorted web links
alternaut #53731 03/20/20 12:10 AM
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And for Canada: Coronavirus Updates

Keep in mind:
• Never take medical advice from politicians.
• Every time the American Shmuck in Chief opens his mouth re coronavirus, he's lying.

Re: Coronavirus information: assorted web links
grelber #53735 03/20/20 08:48 AM
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Read it and weep:

Before Virus Outbreak, a Cascade of Warnings Went Unheeded

Government exercises, including one last year, made clear that the US was not ready for a pandemic like the coronavirus. But little was done.

Just remember – as I have oft noted – that this Andromeda strain is merely Gaia's way of thinning the herd to improve living conditions ... but it's not doing it in a maximally efficient fashion. More virulence!

Re: Coronavirus information: assorted web links
alternaut #53740 03/21/20 06:19 PM
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Originally Posted By: alternaut
The biggest problem with that statistic is the number of infected people, which determines the other variables you mention. Accuracy here requires for everyone to be tested, because many of those infected only show minor symptoms.
100% accuracy is neither feasible or required. Only a statistically valid random testing is necessary. At the present time in most of this country there are only enough tests available for those who are showing a specific symptomology and/or are in high risk groups. So any statistics are heavily biased in favor of being infected.



"Sacred cows make the best hamburger"

- Mark Twain
Re: Coronavirus information: assorted web links
joemikeb #53741 03/21/20 09:10 PM
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Originally Posted By: joemikeb
100% accuracy is neither feasible or required. Only a statistically valid random testing is necessary.

I agree, and realize I should have phrased that better. That said, it’s not yet clear what the optimal requirements for a statistically valid random test should be, given the unknowns of COVID-19, but at this stage any new data improves upon what we’ve got. And what we’ve got can be compared to a mountain island, representing the known/tested infected, with the snowy peak the deceased, and the larger submerged base the unknown infected.

More info, now from The Atlantic, and free from their paywall: What You Need to Know About the Coronavirus


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Re: Coronavirus information: assorted web links
alternaut #53744 03/22/20 01:28 AM
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And on a lighter note: The Coronavirus Toilet Paper Calculator (be sure to check out the advanced options!) cool


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Re: Coronavirus information: assorted web links
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Re: Coronavirus information: assorted web links
alternaut #53786 03/24/20 11:32 PM
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From the Visual Capitalist, the seven best COVID resources they've discovered so far.


ryck

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Re: Coronavirus information: assorted web links
alternaut #53835 03/27/20 11:29 PM
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And, on a hopeful note, I just watched a news item with a 102 year old Italian woman who has recovered from COVID. On doing a DuckDuckGo search, I found there was also an 86 year old woman and a 101 year old man who recovered from it.

We'll be eating a lot more spaghetti and guzzling plenty of Ruffino.

Last edited by ryck; 03/27/20 11:30 PM.

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Re: Coronavirus information: assorted web links
ryck #53843 03/28/20 09:47 AM
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Originally Posted By: ryck
We'll be eating a lot more spaghetti and guzzling plenty of Ruffino.

And guzzling is all you can do with ruffino and most chiantis.

Now if you want to savor, try Nebbiolo, Nero d'Avola, Amarone, Barolo, Brunello, any Super Tuscan, etc.

Re: Coronavirus information: assorted web links
grelber #53844 03/28/20 10:37 AM
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Seattle Is Living Your Coronavirus Future

Among other things ...
President Trump’s talk of opening the United States for business by Easter is greeted in this precinct of sanity as the heartless bluster of a career con man. The public radio station in Seattle, KUOW, has stopped airing Trump’s live briefings because the volume of misinformation he puts out cannot be corrected in real time.

Re: Coronavirus information: assorted web links
grelber #53850 03/29/20 02:32 AM
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In a different vein: Stacks of Urns in Wuhan Prompt New Questions of Virus’s Toll

The interesting thing about this article is that 2 months or so ago I saw an article in which someone who claimed to have had info from people in Wuhan said that they had already cremated 50,000 bodies.


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In Memory of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire
Re: Coronavirus information: assorted web links
artie505 #53860 04/03/20 01:17 PM
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Originally Posted By: artie505
In a different vein:

And, in another different vein, it seems the other big pandemic The Black Death involved social distancing.


ryck

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Re: Coronavirus information: assorted web links
ryck #53862 04/03/20 05:06 PM
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Originally Posted By: ryck
And, in another different vein, it seems the other big pandemic The Black Death involved social distancing.

Indeed. Death is the ultimate social distancer. tongue smirk

Re: Coronavirus information: assorted web links
grelber #53867 04/03/20 07:04 PM
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Touting Virus Cure, ‘Simple Country Doctor’ Becomes a Right-Wing Star

How Dr Vladimir Zelenko's claims for his coronavirus treatment spread from a New York village all the way to President Trump.

Re: Coronavirus information: assorted web links
grelber #53886 04/08/20 07:53 AM
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From The Atlantic in 2018 ...

The Next Plague Is Coming. Is America Ready?

The epidemics of the early 21st century revealed a world unprepared, even as the risks continue to multiply. Much worse is coming.

Re: Coronavirus information: assorted web links
alternaut #53924 04/11/20 04:18 PM
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Another one from Visual Capitalist, showing what COVID does to your body.


ryck

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Re: Coronavirus information: assorted web links
alternaut #54137 04/18/20 12:10 AM
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Yet another from the Visual Capitalist. This time, information about high tech companies' contributions to the fight and more.

Last edited by ryck; 04/18/20 12:13 AM.

ryck

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Re: Coronavirus information: assorted web links
ryck #54142 04/18/20 02:49 PM
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Scammers are coming out of the woodwork. As the quip goes, "The devil is an optimist if he thinks he can make people worse than they already are."

Doctor Charged With Fraud After U.S. Says He Sold Treatment as ‘100 Percent’ Cure for Covid-19

I would characterize this as snake oil, except that this type of chicanery is beneath the dignity of my pet black rat snake.


Jon

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Re: Coronavirus information: assorted web links
jchuzi #54149 04/18/20 06:25 PM
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I'm replying to myself with this. The Huckster-in-Chief is now in cahoots with the TV Quack-in-Chief. The Unholy Alliance of Trump and Dr. Oz


Jon

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Re: Coronavirus information: assorted web links
jchuzi #54152 04/18/20 07:14 PM
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For all of Oz's MANY faults, he's got at least this one wonderful quote going for him:

Quote:
A minor procedure is a procedure that's being performed on someone else.


The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire
Re: Coronavirus information: assorted web links
artie505 #54154 04/18/20 08:56 PM
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And another saying, not by Oz, involves the difference between a recession and a depression. When your neighbor loses his job, it's a recession. When you lose yours, it's a depression.


Jon

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Re: Coronavirus information: assorted web links
grelber #54155 04/18/20 11:27 PM
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OK, here are a few more links discussing available data on COVID-19 from a US point of view, and how to (not) read it:
- A New Statistic Reveals Why America’s COVID-19 Numbers Are Flat
- Without More Tests, America Can’t Reopen
- Coronavirus has destroyed the myth of the deficit


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Re: Coronavirus information: assorted web links
alternaut #54158 04/19/20 07:54 AM
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Anybody else been unlucky enough to wander onto a Fox page and encounter the term "dem-panic?"

The comments on a Fox page are truly eye-opening. frown


The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire
Re: Coronavirus information: assorted web links
artie505 #54159 04/19/20 10:17 AM
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This FaceBook page has it right.


Jon

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Re: Coronavirus information: assorted web links
jchuzi #54175 04/20/20 01:08 AM
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Originally posted by 5577 in Networking:

The Aftermath of Covid 19

Half of us are going to come out of this quarantine as amazing cooks.
The other half will come out with a drinking problem.

I used to spin that toilet paper like I was on Wheel of Fortune.
Now I turn it like I'm cracking a safe.

I need to practice social-distancing from the refrigerator.

Still haven't decided where to go for Easter ----- The Living Room or The Bedroom

PSA: every few days try your jeans on just to make sure they fit.
Pajamas will have you believe all is well in the kingdom.

Homeschooling is going well. 2 students suspended for fighting
and 1 teacher fired for drinking on the job.

I don't think anyone expected that when we changed the clocks we'd go from
Standard Time to the Twilight Zone

This morning I saw a neighbor talking to her cat. It was obvious she thought her cat understood her.
I came into my house, told my dog..... we laughed a lot.


My body has absorbed so much soap and disinfectant lately that when I pee
it cleans the toilet.

Day 5 of Homeschooling: One of these little monsters called in a bomb threat.

I'm so excited --- it's time to take out the garbage. What should I wear?

I hope the weather is good tomorrow for my trip to Puerto Backyarda.
I'm getting tired of Los Livingrooms.

Classified Ad: Single man with toilet paper seeks woman with hand sanitizer
for good clean fun.

Day 6 of Homeschooling: My child just said "I hope I don't have the same
teacher next year".... I'm offended.

Better 6 feet apart than 6 feet under.


The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire
Re: Coronavirus information: assorted web links
artie505 #54176 04/20/20 01:11 AM
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Originally posted by jaybass in Mac OS X Applications:

Interesting reading.

* The virus is not a living organism, but a protein molecule (DNA) covered by a protective layer of lipid (fat), which, when absorbed by the cells of the ocular, nasal or buccal mucosa, changes their genetic code. (mutation) and convert them into aggressor and multiplier cells.

* Since the virus is not a living organism but a protein molecule, it is not killed, but decays on its own. The disintegration time depends on the temperature, humidity and type of material where it lies.

* The virus is very fragile; the only thing that protects it is a thin outer layer of fat. That is why any soap or detergent is the best remedy, because the foam CUTS the FAT (that is why you have to rub so much: for 20 seconds or more, to make a lot of foam). By dissolving the fat layer, the protein molecule disperses and breaks down on its own.

* HEAT melts fat; this is why it is so good to use water above 77 degrees Fahreheit for washing hands, clothes and everything. In addition, hot water makes more foam and that makes it even more useful.

* Alcohol or any mixture with alcohol over 65% DISSOLVES ANY FAT, especially the external lipid layer of the virus.

* Any mix with 1 part bleach and 5 parts water directly dissolves the protein, breaks it down from the inside.

* Oxygenated water helps long after soap, alcohol and chlorine, because peroxide dissolves the virus protein, but you have to use it pure and it hurts your skin.

* NO BACTERICIDE SERVES. The virus is not a living organism like bacteria; they cannot kill what is not alive with anthobiotics, but quickly disintegrates its structure.

* NEVER shake used or unused clothing, sheets or cloth. While it is glued to a porous surface, it is very inert and disintegrates only between 3 hours (fabric and porous), 4 hours (copper, because it is naturally antiseptic; and wood, because it removes all the moisture and does not let it peel off and disintegrates). ), 24 hours (cardboard), 42 hours (metal) and 72 hours (plastic). But if you shake it or use a feather duster, the virus molecules float in the air for up to 3 hours, and can lodge in your nose.

* The virus molecules remain very stable in external cold, or artificial as air conditioners in houses and cars. They also need moisture to stay stable, and especially darkness. Therefore, dehumidified, dry, warm and bright environments will degrade it faster.

* UV LIGHT on any object that may contain it breaks down the virus protein. For example, to disinfect and reuse a mask is perfect. Be careful, it also breaks down collagen (which is protein) in the skin, eventually causing wrinkles and skin cancer.

* The virus CANNOT go through healthy skin.

* Vinegar is NOT useful because it does not break down the protective layer of fat.

* NO SPIRITS, NOR VODKA, serve. The strongest vodka is 40% alcohol, and you need 65%.

* LISTERINE IF IT SERVES! It is 65% alcohol.

* The more confined the space, the more concentration of the virus there can be. The more open or naturally ventilated, the less.

* You have to wash your hands before and after touching mucosa, food, locks, knobs, switches, remote control, cell phone, watches, computers, desks, TV, etc. And when using the bathroom.

* You have to HUMIDIFY HANDS DRY from so much washing them, because the molecules can hide in the micro cracks. The thicker the moisturizer, the better.

* Also keep your NAILS SHORT so that the virus does not hide there.


The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire
Re: Coronavirus information: assorted web links
artie505 #54177 04/20/20 02:00 AM
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Reality!

I just walked past one of the local funeral homes, and they've got a refrigerated truck body in their courtyard. frown


The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire
Re: Coronavirus information: assorted web links
artie505 #54251 04/22/20 04:36 PM
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Originally Posted By: artie505
Reality!

I just walked past one of the local funeral homes, and they've got a refrigerated truck body in their courtyard. frown

FWIW that brought tears to my eyes for the people of New York — City and state — and a prayer of thanks for our Mayor and County Judge who shut things down here relatively early, hopefully flattening the infection curve and they aren't about to open until there has been adequate testing.

I envy you your governor, we watch his daily briefings for accurate and precise information and ignore the president's daily "I am the greatest" stump speech. We are stuck with a Trump sycophant governor for now at least. Fortunately our Mayor and County Judge have no hesitation saying NO to reopening and to h&%% with the pasture pies coming from D.C. and Austin.



"Sacred cows make the best hamburger"

- Mark Twain
Re: Coronavirus information: assorted web links
joemikeb #54254 04/22/20 05:33 PM
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Originally Posted By: joemikeb
Originally Posted By: artie505
Reality!

I just walked past one of the local funeral homes, and they've got a refrigerated truck body in their courtyard. frown

FWIW that brought tears to my eyes for the people of New York — City and state ....

That's very much appreciated!

That was a Jewish funeral home, of which there are any number - 3 within walking distance - and the truck body was a small one.

Today there's a full size refrigerated 40 footer in front of the only Muslim funeral home of which I"m aware, and I've been told that the local Muslim community has lost 700 people so far, which I must guess is a pretty respectable percentage, even allowing for what I think is a disproportionately large percentage of elderly people.


The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire
Re: Coronavirus information: assorted web links
artie505 #54256 04/22/20 05:47 PM
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COVID-19 doesn't give a 🤬 about gender, race, religion, country of origin, citizenship status, education level, political affiliation, economic status, physical handicaps, or any other way people try to differentiate themselves. It is truly and equal opportunity killer. Everyone needs to recognize that fact and realize that what we do effects not only ourselves but every one around us and vice. versa. We are each and every one in this fight together.



"Sacred cows make the best hamburger"

- Mark Twain
Re: Coronavirus information: assorted web links
alternaut #54327 04/24/20 11:57 PM
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As though the fight wasn't tough enough, the disease has a scary new wrinkle.


ryck

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Re: Coronavirus information: assorted web links
alternaut #54332 04/25/20 12:17 PM
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It turns out that the droplets generated by sneezing may not be the only source of airborne particles. There may even be tiny particles, from speaking, that remain suspended in air, according to this study from the New England Journal of Medicine.

Last edited by ryck; 04/25/20 11:56 PM. Reason: Clarification

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Re: Coronavirus information: assorted web links
alternaut #54468 05/05/20 02:22 PM
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Massachusetts General Hospital has released an inter-active coronavirus simulator to simulate the effect of different levels of social-distancing while opening states. It’s quite interesting.

MGH is the original and largest teaching hospital of Harvard Medical School and developed the tool in cooperation with Georgia Tech.

Last edited by ryck; 05/05/20 02:27 PM.

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Re: Coronavirus information: assorted web links
ryck #54472 05/05/20 10:24 PM
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Add to that and senior officials in the Whitehouse have announced they are shutting down any further response to the COVID-19 pandemic to focus on the economy. What is their response going to be in August and September when Coronavirus spikes again and more dramatically than it has to date in the United States.



"Sacred cows make the best hamburger"

- Mark Twain
Re: Coronavirus information: assorted web links
joemikeb #54473 05/05/20 11:01 PM
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Originally Posted By: joemikeb
Add to that and senior officials in the Whitehouse have announced they are shutting down any further response to the COVID-19 pandemic to focus on the economy. What is their response going to be in August and September when Coronavirus spikes again and more dramatically than it has to date in the United States.

They're gonna try to postpone the election! frown mad

This administration is EVIL...willing to trade lives for power.

Last edited by artie505; 05/06/20 12:33 AM. Reason: More

The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire
Re: Coronavirus information: assorted web links
artie505 #54480 05/06/20 03:44 PM
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If I recall, the date for the presidential election is codified in the Constitution, so changing it might be difficult. Of course that does not mean they won't try.


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Re: Coronavirus information: assorted web links
Ira L #54483 05/06/20 03:56 PM
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Originally Posted By: Ira L
If I recall, the date for the presidential election is codified in the Constitution, so changing it might be difficult. Of course that does not mean they won't try.

I think you're correct, and if I remember correctly, there's precedent for letting the election go on on schedule in the Supreme Court ruling that ended the Florida "recount" in '04.

But as you say, that doesn't mean that they won't try.

Can you imagine their winning and Trump being president indefinitely until the "war on COVID" is declared "over."

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaagh!!!


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Re: Coronavirus information: assorted web links
artie505 #54524 05/08/20 05:41 PM
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I've seen headlines similar to Dow Jones Futures Signal Strong Gains For Post-Coronavirus Stock Market Rally on more than one financial website.

"Post-Corona Virus???" Do they seriously think the restarting economy signals the end of the endemic?

It sounds like they consider Trump to be their medical expert on the subject! shocked crazy


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Re: Coronavirus information: assorted web links
alternaut #54587 05/16/20 12:29 AM
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The Lancet has a scathing editorial about the damage President Bonespur has done to the CDC as the COVID 19 pandemic worsens.

Last edited by ryck; 05/16/20 08:47 AM.

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Re: Coronavirus information: assorted web links
artie505 #54601 05/16/20 07:50 PM
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Originally Posted By: artie505
"Post-Corona Virus???" Do they seriously think the restarting economy signals the end of the endemic?

Do they really think the stock market reflects the state of the economy the rest of us live in?



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Re: Coronavirus information: assorted web links
joemikeb #54602 05/16/20 09:26 PM
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Originally Posted By: joemikeb
Originally Posted By: artie505
"Post-Corona Virus???" Do they seriously think the restarting economy signals the end of the endemic?

Do they really think the stock market reflects the state of the economy the rest of us live in?

It doesn't matter as long as the stock market is what the rest of us vote for. frown


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Re: Coronavirus information: assorted web links
artie505 #54613 05/17/20 04:01 PM
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Originally Posted By: artie505
"Post-Corona Virus???" Do they seriously think the restarting economy signals the end of the endemic?

No....but they've probably come to the realization that the people most affected (i.e. have lost their jobs) are those who are in President Chlorox's base, and those affected people see that the bunch of people who shut things down are the one's who still have their high-paying jobs.

And that's why President Chlorox is willing to open the country up. He wants to be seen as 'on their side', and retain their votes, even at the expense of more American lives.

Last edited by ryck; 05/17/20 04:02 PM.

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Re: Coronavirus information: assorted web links
ryck #54614 05/17/20 04:04 PM
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Originally Posted By: ryck
And that's why President Chlorox is willing to open the country up. He wants to be seen as 'on their side', and retain their votes, even at the expense of more American lives.

That's an oxymoron: those "more American lives" will be MAGAt lives.


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Re: Coronavirus information: assorted web links
alternaut #54615 05/17/20 04:05 PM
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Here's an interesting site with world wide statistics that can be viewed according to your interests.


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Re: Coronavirus information: assorted web links
ryck #54616 05/17/20 04:13 PM
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Coronavirus Update is more informative as well as more easily readable.

At the moment, its numbers are more current than those on your linked site.

Last edited by artie505; 05/17/20 04:15 PM.

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Re: Coronavirus information: assorted web links
artie505 #54617 05/17/20 04:17 PM
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Originally Posted By: artie505
That's an oxymoron: those "more American lives" will be MAGAt lives.

More than MAGA people will die but, even keeping it to his base, it doesn't matter if it's oxymoronic. Trump doesn't care who dies (or how many) as long as the survivors in his base keep marking their ballots for him.


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Re: Coronavirus information: assorted web links
ryck #54618 05/17/20 04:23 PM
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The smaller his base gets, the deeper the skata he's in, because he's in great danger of losing the layer on top of his base that he MUST have if he's to win.


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Re: Coronavirus information: assorted web links
alternaut #54697 05/22/20 04:04 PM
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Apparently, during London’s Great Plague, Samuel Pepys was the very first pandemic blogger .


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Re: Coronavirus information: assorted web links
ryck #54709 05/23/20 03:59 PM
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Not only that, but Pepys' journals are one of the few written documents that survived the Great Fire of London and as such, give us an interesting perspective on that time. As the article referenced briefly alludes, Pepys' diaries contained many descriptions of his sexual adventures and in later years became a source of entertainment for British readers. And finally, which is where (one of) my interests (history of mathematics) entered the picture, Pepys says that he is going to pursue advanced studies in mathematics and learn—arithmetic!


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Re: Coronavirus information: assorted web links
alternaut #54750 05/26/20 10:33 PM
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I thought the anti-vaxxers were pretty wacky, but they've got nothing on the covidiots.

Last edited by ryck; 05/27/20 12:09 AM.

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Re: Coronavirus information: assorted web links
alternaut #54751 05/27/20 01:52 PM
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Here is a chronology of some of trump's conflicting remarks.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ch7_t2Ri2Zg

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Re: Coronavirus information: assorted web links
jaybass #54753 05/27/20 03:44 PM
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But at long last Twitter has put a fact checking muzzle on Trump

https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2020/05/27/trump-twitter-label/

so the twit-in-chief is retaliating by threatening to shut down social media.



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Re: Coronavirus information: assorted web links
ryck #54755 05/27/20 05:03 PM
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Originally Posted By: ryck
I thought the anti-vaxxers were pretty wacky, but they've got nothing on the covidiots.


Quite often they are one and the same. tongue


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Re: Coronavirus information: assorted web links
alternaut #54796 05/30/20 01:06 PM
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And, in case you were wondering, here's where bats are still on the menu.


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Re: Coronavirus information: assorted web links
alternaut #54834 06/06/20 01:56 PM
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Unknown spreading of COVID? This certainly falls under the category of not good news.


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Re: Coronavirus information: assorted web links
alternaut #54850 06/09/20 12:22 AM
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And, from down under, New Zealand has reason to be happy.


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Re: Coronavirus information: assorted web links
alternaut #54906 06/15/20 01:37 PM
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More bad news. Now we learn that the virus could become more infectious.


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Re: Coronavirus information: assorted web links
ryck #54907 06/15/20 03:19 PM
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Re: Coronavirus information: assorted web links
alternaut #54908 06/15/20 04:35 PM
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OK, how about something positive: Antibody- vaccine info .


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Re: Coronavirus information: assorted web links
alternaut #55280 07/19/20 07:58 PM
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It turns out that the corona virus could have a much longer-lasting economic effect by causing a reduction in the birthrate. This from economists at the Brookings Institution.

Last edited by ryck; 07/19/20 07:58 PM.

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Re: Coronavirus information: assorted web links
Ira L #55451 07/27/20 12:03 PM
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Originally Posted By: Ira L
Originally Posted By: ryck
I thought the anti-vaxxers were pretty wacky, but they've got nothing on the covidiots.


Quite often they are one and the same. tongue

And the proof is in. It turns out that the anti-vaxxers are actively involved with teaching the anti-maskers.


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Re: Coronavirus information: assorted web links
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Jon

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Re: Coronavirus information: assorted web links
jchuzi #55469 07/30/20 11:47 AM
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Originally Posted By: jchuzi
Stupidity has no limits (Einstein was right about this). Look at Stella Immanuel - the doctor behind unproven coronavirus cure claim Of course, Trump likes her.

Trump likes her because they have something in common - they're both morons. I watched his televised response to a reporter's question about the woman having curious theories involving DNA from aliens, and his response included: "I thought her voice was an important voice but I know nothing about her". Really? How do you conclude that she must be heard even though you know nothing about her?

As I said....both are morons.

Last edited by ryck; 07/30/20 11:48 AM.

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Re: Coronavirus information: assorted web links
ryck #55479 07/31/20 01:50 PM
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All he needed to know about her to know that hers is an important voice is that she supports the use of Chlorohydroquinone.

The Internet has given every crackpot in the world a free soap box, so I herewith contribute my own personal conspiracy theory...

COVID 19 was cooked up by Dr. Fauci in his kitchen, and, using technology developed by Bill Gates, loaded onto a thumb drive which was dropped in the parking lot of that Wuhan market and, in much the same way as Iran's centrifuges were taken down, turned loose on the public when a curious finder plugged it in to the market's computer.

And they're now in league with Dr. Immanuel, plotting to use the same technique to spread alien DNA throughout America! shocked tongue


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Re: Coronavirus information: assorted web links
artie505 #55480 07/31/20 02:07 PM
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Quote:
COVID 19 was cooked up by Dr. Fauci in his kitchen, and, using technology developed by Bill Gates, loaded onto a thumb drive which was dropped in the parking lot of that Wuhan market and, in much the way same as Iran's centrifuges were taken down, turned loose on the public when a curious finder plugged it into the market's computer.

And they're now in league with Dr. Immanuel, plotting to use the same technique to spread alien DNA throughout America! shocked tongue

....you forgot to include the cabal of pedophile cannibals that run the deep state and publish all that fake news!!!!!

Please, let's get it right....... blush shocked crazy mad confused


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Re: Coronavirus information: assorted web links
MacManiac #55481 07/31/20 02:26 PM
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I can support my theory by citing correspondence I've received directly from the aliens.

Your addenda, while also true, are, nonetheless, mere speculation.


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Re: Coronavirus information: assorted web links
artie505 #55490 07/31/20 05:18 PM
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Originally Posted By: artie505
I can support my theory by citing correspondence I've received directly from the aliens.

Your addenda, while also true, are, nonetheless, mere speculation.


Not mere speculation. That cabal was located in a pizza parlor in Brooklyn. The speculation is that Hillary Clinton was leading it. grin


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Re: Coronavirus information: assorted web links
Ira L #55493 07/31/20 07:33 PM
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Originally Posted By: Ira L
Originally Posted By: artie505
I can support my theory by citing correspondence I've received directly from the aliens.

Your addenda, while also true, are, nonetheless, mere speculation.


Not mere speculation. That cabal was located in a pizza parlor in Brooklyn. The speculation is that Hillary Clinton was leading it. grin

In that case, she's got her tracks well covered. I've never seen her do anything other than eat pizza.

Hmmm... I wonder if she and Ciro (the pizza "slinger") are passing messages back and forth in the grated cheese? Maybe all those times it looks stringy are because it's really long, thin strips of paper. She does linger over her cheese for an awful long time. shocked


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Re: Coronavirus information: assorted web links
artie505 #55510 08/01/20 03:07 PM
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I kid you not. You don't have to make up this stuff; someone(s) already believes it.


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Re: Coronavirus information: assorted web links
Ira L #55513 08/01/20 03:59 PM
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I never believe anything unless Elvis and Marilyn have verified it from their laboratory on Mars.


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jchuzi #55515 08/01/20 04:49 PM
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We need to be careful verifying the data from Mars less Ming the Merciless gets into the act and sends a new virus on the radio waves, probably using TikTok.



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Re: Coronavirus information: assorted web links
Ira L #55523 08/02/20 09:56 AM
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Originally Posted By: Ira L
I kid you not. You don't have to make up this stuff; someone(s) already believes it.

Thanks for the link.

Now that I see "Comet" (D.C., not Brooklyn), I remember that nonsense.

The very worst aspect of the Internet is that it's given every crackpot, lunatic, and agent provocateur, not to mention every just plain nasty person, a free platform with unlimited reach, and has thereby made the world a FAR worse place! mad


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Re: Coronavirus information: assorted web links
artie505 #55531 08/02/20 04:02 PM
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Originally Posted By: artie505
The very worst aspect of the Internet is that it's given every crackpot, lunatic, and agent provocateur, not to mention every just plain nasty person, a free platform with unlimited reach, and has thereby made the world a FAR worse place! mad

That's for sure. Compounding the problem is that there's such a large audience of people who simply don't think about the fact there are "crackpots, lunatics, and agent provocateurs, and nasty people" spreading nonsense....not even for a minute. I watched a news item with a bunch of people rallying against wearing masks as protection against the spread of COVID. One justified his attendance with: "Well there are so many conflicting opinions, it's hard to know what to believe."

And I thought, no there aren't any conflicting opinions if you look to the experts (CDC, AMA, Dr, Fauci, et cetera) for your information. You'll find that the people who know what they're talking about, agree. If you choose to listen to some wacko with an agenda, carry on about how the masks kill people, then sure, you'll be confused.

Last edited by ryck; 08/02/20 04:08 PM.

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Re: Coronavirus information: assorted web links
artie505 #55532 08/02/20 04:28 PM
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Originally Posted By: artie505
The very worst aspect of the Internet is that it's given every crackpot, lunatic, and agent provocateur, not to mention every just plain nasty person, a free platform with unlimited reach, and has thereby made the world a FAR worse place! mad

At the same time, the internet has created a place where the voices of the underclass can be heard and revolutions against oppressive regimes can be coordinated. An internet voice that you hear as an agent provocateur may well be someone else's freedom fighter. It all depends on which side you are on. Freedom of speech is a two edged sword.



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Re: Coronavirus information: assorted web links
joemikeb #55533 08/02/20 04:57 PM
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Originally Posted By: joemikeb
Freedom of speech is a two edged sword.

The problem is that one edge has a lot of people who exercise the freedom without any rational thought or conversation...and that gives way to the kind of problems outlined in Ira's Pizzagate link.

I wonder if that's what Einstein predicted when he wrote to his friend psychiatrist Otto Juliusburger, in 1948: “I believe that the abominable deterioration of ethical standards stems primarily from the mechanization and depersonalization of our lives, a disastrous byproduct of science and technology. Nostra culpa!”

Last edited by ryck; 08/02/20 07:31 PM.

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Re: Coronavirus information: assorted web links
alternaut #55563 08/03/20 10:51 PM
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Trump is considering a ban on TikTok. His following remarks "It's big business" Trump said during an interview with Gray television. "Look what happened with China with the virus, what they've done to this country and to the entire world is disgraceful"

On Mar.17th he said on national television "This is a pandemic I felt it was a pandemic long before it was called a pandemic" Yet knowing that, he did nothing resulting in tens of thousands of American lives being lost. But wait, what has he done since, nothing! He is obsessed with being re-elected and he is willing to gamble on more American lives to do so.
And now he wants to blame China. An excuse for his own total disregard.


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Re: Coronavirus information: assorted web links
jaybass #55571 08/04/20 01:43 PM
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Originally Posted By: jaybass
Trump is considering a ban on TikTok. His following remarks "It's big business" Trump said during an interview with Gray television. "Look what happened with China with the virus, what they've done to this country and to the entire world is disgraceful"

Trump's wish to shut down TikTok is virus-related but has nothing to do with China and the virus. It's because his total disregard for protecting Americans from the virus caused him great embarrassment.

Ahead of his Tulsa rally he made sure everyone knew that masks were not required and that he wasn't particularly concerned about social distancing. He even boasted that so many people were going to attend, without worrying about COVID precautions, that a huge staging area was being set up to handle the overflow.

Trump did this while Oklahoma was reporting a steady increase of new confirmed coronavirus cases per day and, in Tulsa County particularly, COVID cases were climbing at a record level. Then, a bunch of ticked-off kids on TikTok decided "enough is enough" and brought his rally to its knees.

The White House had a special offer for people who booked into the rally through them. If the people provided their contact information, they could get a free ticket to the rally. The kids jumped into action.

They passed the word along, throughout TikTok, that everyone should accept the White House offer, but not show up at the rally. As the kids started booking more and more seats, President Bonespur began boasting that "millions of people" wanted to come to his rally.

The day of the rally, there were less than 6,000 people in an arena that could hold 10 times that amount. The television visuals of these huge empty spaces was devastating. While the rally was going, a crew quietly disassembled the huge overflow area. Fortunately, TV cameras were present for that too.

So, Trump's wish to ban TikTok is only because he was snookered by a bunch of kids on that platform. I say good for the kids... not only for putting Trump in his place but also for underlining the importance of taking proper precautions with COVID.

And...thanks kids, both for showing great responsibility and for giving the world a giant belly laugh.


Last edited by ryck; 08/04/20 01:57 PM.

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Re: Coronavirus information: assorted web links
joemikeb #55580 08/05/20 06:00 AM
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Originally Posted By: joemikeb
Originally Posted By: artie505
The very worst aspect of the Internet is that it's given every crackpot, lunatic, and agent provocateur, not to mention every just plain nasty person, a free platform with unlimited reach, and has thereby made the world a FAR worse place! mad

At the same time, the internet has created a place where the voices of the underclass can be heard and revolutions against oppressive regimes can be coordinated. An internet voice that you hear as an agent provocateur may well be someone else's freedom fighter. It all depends on which side you are on. Freedom of speech is a two edged sword.

The Internet has made it easier for "traditional" revolutionary groups and agent provocateurs on both edges of the sword to proselytize and coordinate, but those groups are funded and have always had some sort of platform and means of communication without regard for the Internet.

The quacks, charlatans and other assorted nut case to whom I was referring are generally unfunded and wouldn't have any audience at all without the free platforms with which the Internet has gifted them.


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Re: Coronavirus information: assorted web links
artie505 #55584 08/05/20 01:29 PM
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Originally Posted By: artie505
The quacks, charlatans and other assorted nut case to whom I was referring are generally unfunded and wouldn't have any audience at all without the free platforms with which the Internet has gifted them.

That is the argument used by virtually all repressive regimes. The Emporer of the Holy Roman Empire might have said the same thing about the printing press when it enabled Martin Luther's 39 Thesis to be spread across the entire European continent in less than a fortnight. King George might have made similar comments about the Federalist Papers in the American Colonies. Those same words have recently been used about the internet by governments in Egypt, China, North Korea, and Trump.

Free speech must be for all, not just those whose words we approve of. Those who are thoughtful, analytical, and informed must speak out against the quacks and charlatans, but that does not mean silencing their voices. Children must be taught the discipline of literary analysis to help them distinguish between BS and facts. Freedom of speech must be defended, not decried.



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Re: Coronavirus information: assorted web links
joemikeb #55585 08/05/20 11:33 PM
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Originally Posted By: joemikeb
Free speech must be for all, not just those whose words we approve of.

Especially for President Trump because it provides constant confirmation of how profoundly ignorant he is. Today, responding to a question in a radio interview about COVID, he said: "This thing's going away. It will go away like things go away."

Last edited by ryck; 08/05/20 11:41 PM.

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Re: Coronavirus information: assorted web links
joemikeb #55605 08/08/20 11:55 PM
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Originally Posted By: joemikeb
Free speech must be for all, not just those whose words we approve of. Those who are thoughtful, analytical, and informed must speak out against the quacks and charlatans, but that does not mean silencing their voices. Children must be taught the discipline of literary analysis to help them distinguish between BS and facts. Freedom of speech must be defended, not decried.

I have to disagree with you there, albeit in a qualified manner. While I subscribe to the basic principle of free speech, I can see quite a few instances where exceptions would be preferable, or even necessary. In this context a critical situation is one in which free speech leads to violence or even the abolishing of free speech itself, because for whatever reason the relevant majority is not able or willing to distinguish between BS and facts, or doesn’t care as long as it has its way. History as well as current developments show that this is not just theory.

That said, this issue is likely to center on the location from where one might exercise free speech. We can and do limit that on occasion here in the forums, and other (private) platforms increasingly curtail speech to fight (or promote) things like mis/disinformation, propaganda, conspiracy theories and outright lies, usually in a political setting.


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Re: Coronavirus information: assorted web links
alternaut #55607 08/09/20 01:26 PM
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Freedom of speech is not absolute. It is a hallowed tradition in law that freedom of speech does not give anyone the right to yell "FIRE" in a crowded theater and a rule on FineTunedMac that personal attacks are not permitted. Even Twitter and Facebook are now fact-checking posts and have taken down some of the President's more egregious statements. But, everyone is entitled to express their personal opinion or belief. Oppression occurs when attempts are made to silence other voices than "ours" (whoever our is or thinks they are).



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Re: Coronavirus information: assorted web links
joemikeb #55622 08/11/20 08:11 AM
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Originally Posted By: joemikeb
Free speech must be for all, not just those whose words we approve of. Those who are thoughtful, analytical, and informed must speak out against the quacks and charlatans, but that does not mean silencing their voices. Children must be taught the discipline of literary analysis to help them distinguish between BS and facts. Freedom of speech must be defended, not decried.

I'm totally against restrictions on freedom of speech.

I'm just lamenting the freedom's having been turned against us.

Speaking out against quacks and charlatans, and teaching children to distinguish between BS and facts is tried and true methodology, and I'm sure it's still effective in confined situations, but between our being at a point at which the quacks and charlatans very often sound more intriguing and captivating than the voice of reason, and the Internet has so blurred the border between fact and fiction that it's almost impossible for anybody, regardless of who or what they are, to sound any more credible than they do, I doubt that it's still got any widespread applicability.

The quacks and charlatans are the Pied Piper, and the Internet is their pipe.

Maybe what really needs to be restricted is freedom to listen?


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Re: Coronavirus information: assorted web links
joemikeb #55623 08/11/20 08:22 AM
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Originally Posted By: joemikeb
Freedom of speech is not absolute.

Going back to Don Imus's firing, when Joe Love said to me "It's the beginning of the end of free speech," I've seen frequent confusion about precisely what "free speech" is.

This may be an over-simplification, but "free speech" needs to be appended with an "on your own dime" caveat.

You stand up a box on a street corner, you can say whatever you damn please, but if someone's paying you to stand on that box...you're bound by their rules.

And similarly, FTM and ALL other websites have got an unlimited right to police their own spaces.

It's a shame that it's taken Twitter and Facebook so long to exercise their rights.


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Re: Coronavirus information: assorted web links
artie505 #55632 08/11/20 11:37 PM
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Originally Posted By: artie505
It's a shame that it's taken Twitter and Facebook so long to exercise their rights.

Right, but what about that pesky social responsibility, duty even? Not surprisingly, all that appears subject to the almighty Dollar, hence the reluctance to excercise any 'rights' beyond the bottom line. That also dictates the approach to be taken when the public starts making noises, for users are the means to an end. 'Social' media, indeed...


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Re: Coronavirus information: assorted web links
alternaut #55639 08/12/20 06:49 AM
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The most socially responsible thing Facebook and Twitter (and others?) could do is declare themselves to in fact be EXCLUSIVELY social...to the COMPLETE exclusion of politics.

Yeah, nice thought.


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Re: Coronavirus information: assorted web links
ryck #55649 08/12/20 05:13 PM
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Originally Posted By: ryck
Originally Posted By: joemikeb
Free speech must be for all, not just those whose words we approve of.

Especially for President Trump because it provides constant confirmation of how profoundly ignorant he is.

And he doesn't let too much time pass before he once again provides evidence of his ignorance, stating that the Spanish flu probably ended WW II.

Last edited by ryck; 08/12/20 05:15 PM.

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Re: Coronavirus information: assorted web links
alternaut #55751 08/19/20 02:08 AM
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And, if you were wondering why Florida California is in such deep trouble, perhaps this will explain things.

Last edited by ryck; 08/19/20 03:24 AM.

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Re: Coronavirus information: assorted web links
ryck #55752 08/19/20 03:09 AM
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Huntington Beach is in California...which I guess explains a lot of the idiocy in the video.


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Re: Coronavirus information: assorted web links
artie505 #55754 08/19/20 03:27 AM
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Originally Posted By: artie505
Huntington Beach is in California...

Oh crap. Thanks for the catch. Someone had sent me the video with the Florida title and I just did a search for the link....without checking the information on the page. What a bone-headed mistake.


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Re: Coronavirus information: assorted web links
ryck #55756 08/19/20 09:50 AM
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When Einstein concluded that human stupidity is infinite, he underestimated the size of infinity.


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Re: Coronavirus information: assorted web links
jchuzi #55757 08/19/20 02:38 PM
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That's for sure. A good example is the guy who exclaims that it's all a B.S. hoax. He hasn't even thought: "Let's see. For my opinion to be correct, most of the countries in the world would have had to collude....and they'd all have to agree their economies should tank."

Sometimes the stupidity is stupefying.

Last edited by ryck; 08/19/20 02:39 PM.

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Re: Coronavirus information: assorted web links
ryck #55761 08/19/20 05:28 PM
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Originally Posted By: ryck
And, if you were wondering why Florida California is in such deep trouble, perhaps this will explain things.


As a California resident this truly saddens me. One consolation might be that Huntington Beach is in Orange County, historically a Republican stronghold, and as such does not (politically) represent the majority of Californians. Although their Congressional seat was flipped in the last general election.

I wonder if the woman in the beginning who argued it was her choice would give that same freedom to a Pro-Choice pregnant woman? confused
Also note that she objected to breathing in her own "carbon monoxide". I wouldn't want to breathe in anyone's carbon monoxide; carbon dioxide, maybe; monoxide, no way. grin


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Re: Coronavirus information: assorted web links
Ira L #55770 08/19/20 11:34 PM
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Originally Posted By: Ira L
I wonder if the woman in the beginning who argued it was her choice would give that same freedom to a Pro-Choice pregnant woman? confused

I think the "It's my choice" argument is totally bogus. If a person wants to ride a motorcycle without a helmet or travel by car without a seatbelt, and the result is that someone has to scrape their brains off the pavement, that's "their choice". Their choice meant they only hurt themselves.

However, if they refuse to wear a mask and pass a deadly virus to someone else, they don't get to claim it's a "their choice". Nobody gets to choose that someone else dies.

They're just self-centred ignorant jerks.


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Re: Coronavirus information: assorted web links
Ira L #55773 08/20/20 10:36 AM
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Originally Posted By: Ira L
Originally Posted By: ryck
And, if you were wondering why Florida California is in such deep trouble, perhaps this will explain things.


As a California resident this truly saddens me.

The linked video is probably a fair representation of the negative response you'd get anywhere, not just in CA, although in all likelihood, it isn't anywhere near a fair representation of the actual thanks/no thanks response.

And it demonstrates the folly of confronting people over COVID at this particular moment in American history. (Particularly when you know you're in right-leaning territory.)


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Re: Coronavirus information: assorted web links
ryck #55778 08/20/20 04:51 PM
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Originally Posted By: ryck
Originally Posted By: Ira L
I wonder if the woman in the beginning who argued it was her choice would give that same freedom to a Pro-Choice pregnant woman? confused

I think the "It's my choice" argument is totally bogus. If a person wants to ride a motorcycle without a helmet or travel by car without a seatbelt, and the result is that someone has to scrape their brains off the pavement, that's "their choice". Their choice meant they only hurt themselves.

However, if they refuse to wear a mask and pass a deadly virus to someone else, they don't get to claim it's a "their choice". Nobody gets to choose that someone else dies.

They're just self-centred ignorant jerks.


I don't think helmets, seat belts, no smoking, etc. are just for the good of the user. There are medical and other costs associated with individual behaviors that impact everyone.

And yes, the reasons for a mask are completely lost on some people.



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Re: Coronavirus information: assorted web links
Ira L #55780 08/20/20 07:26 PM
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Originally Posted By: Ira L
I don't think helmets, seat belts, no smoking, etc. are just for the good of the user. There are medical and other costs associated with individual behaviors that impact everyone.

And yes, the reasons for a mask are completely lost on some people.

Those who believe their personal choices don't have an impact on others would be a lot more believable if they would irrevocably give up their right to bring a lawsuit if they suffer personal injury due to the actions of someone else.



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Re: Coronavirus information: assorted web links
alternaut #56675 10/29/20 08:57 AM
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According the this, from the MIT Technology Review, eating in restaurants can be extremely risky. Since it's about sharing the air a closed environment for a period of time, there are lots of other places where we need to be on our toes, which makes vigilance critical.


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Re: Coronavirus information: assorted web links
ryck #56676 10/29/20 09:14 AM
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I've got no idea if indoor air circulation has been mentioned as a problem, but it seems to me that if it hasn't, it should be prohibited.

I stopped into my watering hole the other night to say hello to a friend who I hadn't seen in too many months, and the host at the door scanned my temperature in a near outdoor vestibule after I'd just walked a half mile in low 60s weather, and he wasn't put off in the least by my 95.1º reading. Well, duh! If my body temp was truly 95.1º I'd have been on my way to the hospital suffering from hypothermia rather than in a saloon, and I was left wondering whether anyone in the entire place had actually had hir temp accurately checked.


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Re: Coronavirus information: assorted web links
artie505 #56677 10/29/20 11:07 AM
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As I understand it, the temperature scanners measure skin temperature, not body temperature (which will be higher). I don't know how the two relate to each other in your case.


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jchuzi #56678 10/29/20 11:15 AM
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In the proper environment, skin temp will be close to body temp, but in my instance, the reading clearly had nothing to do with it...as was probably the case with everybody in the bar.

The host clearly had no idea of what he was supposed to be doing or how to do it correctly.


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Re: Coronavirus information: assorted web links
artie505 #56680 10/29/20 03:36 PM
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Originally Posted by artie505
The host clearly had no idea of what he was supposed to be doing or how to do it correctly.
At least he was making an effort. Beats 🤬 out of a woman I saw taking temperatures outside a medical building while wearing her mask on her chin so it wouldn't fog up her glasses!



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Re: Coronavirus information: assorted web links
joemikeb #56681 10/29/20 03:49 PM
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Originally Posted by joemikeb
Originally Posted by artie505
The host clearly had no idea of what he was supposed to be doing or how to do it correctly.
At least he was making an effort. Beats 🤬 out of a woman I saw taking temperatures outside a medical building while wearing her mask on her chin so it wouldn't fog up her glasses!
Which reminds me of the people on the Coney Island Boardwalk who were giving out masks over the summer while wearing their own on their chins, if at all.


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Re: Coronavirus information: assorted web links
artie505 #56684 10/29/20 05:12 PM
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Originally Posted by artie505
Which reminds me of the people on the Coney Island Boardwalk who were giving out masks over the summer while wearing their own on their chins, if at all.
Given it's a health issue, you would think that people would at least take the time to learn how to do it properly. They remind me of the guy whose Doctor recommended suppositories. When he went back to the Doctor a few weeks later and the Doctor asked "How did the suppositories work out?" The guy replied: "They were useless. For all the good they did, I might as well have stuck them up my butt."


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Re: Coronavirus information: assorted web links
ryck #56685 10/29/20 05:16 PM
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Originally Posted by ryck
Originally Posted by artie505
Which reminds me of the people on the Coney Island Boardwalk who were giving out masks over the summer while wearing their own on their chins, if at all.
Given it's a health issue, you would think that people would at least take the time to learn how to do it properly.
They were at no loss as to the proper way to wear their masks. They just didn't feel like wearing them.


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Re: Coronavirus information: assorted web links
artie505 #56687 10/29/20 07:13 PM
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Originally Posted by ryck
Given it's a health issue, you would think that people would at least take the time to learn how to do it properly.
You would think, but obviously thinking is a real stretch for some people, much less giving a 🤬 about anyone or anything but themselves and their own comfort.

Originally Posted by artoe505
They were at no loss as to the proper way to wear their masks. They just didn't feel like wearing them.
…or they follow the President's lead and believe COVID-19 is fake news, and even if it isn't fake news, the rapid rise in the number of cases nationally proves Trump's often repeated assertion "we have rounded the corner". So in the immortal words of Alfred E. Neuman, "What? Me worry?". (It is a genuine shame Mad Magazine went under. It is times like these when we we need Alfred's words of wisdom!)

Last edited by joemikeb; 10/29/20 07:16 PM.


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Re: Coronavirus information: assorted web links
joemikeb #56690 10/29/20 11:04 PM
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Originally Posted by joemikeb
...the rapid rise in the number of cases nationally proves Trump's often repeated assertion "we have rounded the corner".
I assume you meant DISproves.

And if you've been paying attention, you've noticed that the two states that have recently leapt to the top of the list of stricken states are the two whose governors are most closely aligned with Trump's approach to the problem, i.e. Texas and Florida.

Originally Posted by joemikeb
It is a genuine shame Mad Magazine went under. It is times like these when we we need Alfred's words of wisdom!
Hear, hear!

Last edited by artie505; 10/29/20 11:42 PM. Reason: Expand

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artie505 #56696 10/30/20 01:56 PM
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Originally Posted by artie505
Originally Posted by joemikeb
...the rapid rise in the number of cases nationally proves Trump's often repeated assertion "we have rounded the corner".
I assume you meant DISproves.!
. NO, I Meant that though some inexplicable twist of logic many in Trump's camp believe that the rise in COVI-19 cases and deaths proves that "we have turned the corner". I can't explain their logic, as I said it is inexplicable.



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Re: Coronavirus information: assorted web links
joemikeb #56698 10/30/20 04:01 PM
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Originally Posted by joemikeb
Originally Posted by artie505
Originally Posted by joemikeb
...the rapid rise in the number of cases nationally proves Trump's often repeated assertion "we have rounded the corner".
I assume you meant DISproves.!
. NO, I Meant that though some inexplicable twist of logic many in Trump's camp believe that the rise in COVI-19 cases and deaths proves that "we have turned the corner". I can't explain their logic, as I said it is inexplicable.
Wow! I haven't run across that perverse "logic," but in that camp of idiots, I guess NOTHING should surprise me.

A perhaps relevant observation: I"ve been watching Russia's reporting, and in the past 3-4 weeks their number of daily cases has nearly quadrupled from just under 5,000 to a bit over 18,000, and if it can be attributed to the onset of the harsh Russian winter, it doesn't bode well for much of America.


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Re: Coronavirus information: assorted web links
alternaut #56702 10/30/20 06:43 PM
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Here is a response you can give the next time someone says "Masks? We don't need no stinkin' masks!" [with apologies to "Treasure of the Sierra Madres"]


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Re: Coronavirus information: assorted web links
Ira L #56977 11/17/20 09:07 PM
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It continues to be a Republican mantra that masks are not necessary as evidenced in this Senate dust-up. It seems you can't get Republicans to understand a basic concept, even when they are beat over the head with it. To date, five Senators have contracted Covid and they were all Republicans.

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Re: Coronavirus information: assorted web links
ryck #56978 11/17/20 11:00 PM
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Originally Posted by ryck
It continues to be a Republican mantra that masks are not necessary as evidenced in this Senate dust-up. It seems you can't get Republicans to understand a basic concept, even when they are beat over the head with it. To date, five Senators have contracted Covid and they were all Republicans

I don’t wish anyone ill, but a few of them, their family members, or a major campaign doner may have to die before they will get the point. Either that or they will have to grow new backbones so the Grand Old Party can resurect itself from the depths of Trumpism. Where are republicans like Everett Dircksen, John Tower, Barry Goldwater, and John McCain when the country needs them? All were died in the wool Republicans, but all of them understood the art of negotiation, and not. one of them would have placed party before the good of the nation. Together with their honorable opposition on the other side of the aisle they served to keep the nation from drifting too far to either side if the political spectrum. (And any one of them was smarter, better informed, and far more erudite than the entire Republican contingent of today’s U. S. Senate put together. )



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Re: Coronavirus information: assorted web links
joemikeb #56988 11/18/20 04:34 AM
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They'll get the point reeeal fast if someone dies and it flips the Senate (which hopefully won't need flipping after Jan. 5th).


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Re: Coronavirus information: assorted web links
Ira L #57008 11/19/20 05:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Ira L
Here is a response you can give the next time someone says "Masks? We don't need no stinkin' masks!" [with apologies to "Treasure of the Sierra Madres"]

Or....we could respond with this opening paragraph from a New York Times analysis: "Coronavirus cases are rising in almost every U.S. state. But the surge is worst now in places where leaders neglected to keep up forceful virus containment efforts or failed to implement basic measures like mask mandates in the first place, according to a New York Times analysis of data from the University of Oxford."


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Re: Coronavirus information: assorted web links
ryck #57010 11/19/20 08:19 PM
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Every country in Europe is having a spike, worse than the first spike except that we know what's going on now. All of us are in some form of lockdown, no two countries the same. So you're not too different than us.

One thing worth mentioning: Scotland's prime minister Nicola Sturgeon is being quite strict in her lockdown procedures. Some areas in strict lockdown, others in more moderate restrictions, but all are locked down.

In contrast, Boris Johnson, the UK prime minister (so, Northern Ireland and England) is afraid to tell anyone what they have to do, but the numbers forced his hand and he has reluctantly imposed a (less strict) UK-wide lockdown until December 2nd. His citizens are taking more or less notice. Numbers are rising.

The punchline: Nicola Sturgeon's approval rating on handling the pandemic is 76%. Boris Johnson's is 19%.

It's your life, for Christ's sake. And your family's...


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Re: Coronavirus information: assorted web links
freelance #57011 11/19/20 09:29 PM
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Originally Posted by freelance
It's your life, for Christ's sake. And your family's...
For some, it would seem their motto is, "better dead than inconvenienced."



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Re: Coronavirus information: assorted web links
joemikeb #57012 11/19/20 11:43 PM
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Originally Posted by joemikeb
Originally Posted by freelance
It's your life, for Christ's sake. And your family's...
For some, it would seem their motto is, "better dead than inconvenienced."
And they're buoyed by the falling death rate.

And the down-the-road non-death consequences of the disease won't mean a thing to them until their reality hits squarely home.

And by then it'll be too late for regrets.


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Re: Coronavirus information: assorted web links
artie505 #57098 11/27/20 01:41 AM
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And, if you were wondering where you most have to be careful, here is a list of high-risk places, complete with threat level assessments.

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Re: Coronavirus information: assorted web links
ryck #57107 11/28/20 12:41 PM
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Speaking of which, my (othodox Jewish) dentist told me that the orthodox synagogues have been encouraging people with no known exposure to get tested anyhow so the percentage of positives will go down.

Brilliant!


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Re: Coronavirus information: assorted web links
artie505 #57110 11/28/20 03:41 PM
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Originally Posted by artie505
....encouraging people with no known exposure to get tested anyhow so the percentage of positives will go down.
How Not to Be Helpful 101. Given every jurisdiction seems to have different rates of testing, I've wondered whether any of the publicized results are particularly accurate so I've just take the position that Covid is everywhere. Therefore, be careful everywhere.

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Re: Coronavirus information: assorted web links
ryck #57336 12/16/20 09:17 PM
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And I think you need to be careful of the garbage that comes out of Republicans' mouths. President Bonespur's good friend, Senator Ron Johnson, has decided that he knows more about covid cures than the medical experts.

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Re: Coronavirus information: assorted web links
ryck #57582 01/16/21 04:38 AM
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Well, my wife and I will be getting our first COVID-19 vaccinations on Monday, February 1st. We are in the state of Washington, and the second group of folks who can now get the shot include people over 70. Don't know whether it is the Pfizer or Moderna vaccine, but just happy to be getting it. We have been very, very careful with mask wearing, social distancing, etc., and in fact both of us have been staying home most of the time. I actually can't wait until April, when I can get outside in some isolated spots and pick ferns. I'll enjoy the fresh air, get some well needed exercise, and feel a whole lot better.

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Re: Coronavirus information: assorted web links
MartyByrde #57586 01/16/21 05:00 PM
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We are over 80 and have complications but here in Tarrant County we are on the list to get a reservation for a vaccination and they are saying it will be "several weeks" before we will even be able to get a reservation which may be several weeks after that. Best case, we are looking March or April. In the meantime, there are currently no available ICU beds within a 50 mile radius. We are setting new infection records and new death records two or more days every week. It is not the fault of the County health department or the local health care network, They simply do not know from day to day how many doses they will be receiving. Surely that couldn't be because Dallas and Tarrant counties voted Democratic in the last election?! The same situation is apparently true in Harris (Houston), Travis (Austin), Bexar (San Antonio) counties and they all voted Democratic too.

Even worse news, all the Apple Stores in Texas have been closed until further notice 😢



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Re: Coronavirus information: assorted web links
joemikeb #57587 01/16/21 05:45 PM
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Originally Posted by joemikeb
It is not the fault of the County health department or the local health care network, They simply do not know from day to day how many doses they will be receiving.
A news report yesterday evening talked about the problems that states have had with broken promises from the Trump administration. The states are guaranteed that they will get "X" number of doses by a specific date and they make rollout plans based on what they believe they will get. Then, shortly before the expected delivery date, the Trump administration simply reneges.

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Re: Coronavirus information: assorted web links
joemikeb #57589 01/16/21 06:24 PM
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Originally Posted by joemikeb
We are over 80 and have complications but here in Tarrant County we are on the list to get a reservation for a vaccination and they are saying it will be "several weeks" before we will even be able to get a reservation which may be several weeks after that. Best case, we are looking March or April. In the meantime, there are currently no available ICU beds within a 50 mile radius. We are setting new infection records and new death records two or more days every week. It is not the fault of the County health department or the local health care network, They simply do not know from day to day how many doses they will be receiving. Surely that couldn't be because Dallas and Tarrant counties voted Democratic in the last election?! The same situation is apparently true in Harris (Houston), Travis (Austin), Bexar (San Antonio) counties and they all voted Democratic too.

Even worse news, all the Apple Stores in Texas have been closed until further notice 😢

Our youngest son lives in Frisco, Texas, about 30 miles or so north of Dallas. Will ask him about all that.

Also, we are getting our vaccinations at a hospital, and hence I suspect that is one reason why they have the vaccine already. We could wait and get it from our PCP, but they do not yet know exactly when they will receive the vaccine (it will be the one manufactured by Moderna).

My wife and I are just so relieved that we'll be getting the vaccine soon, but again, we will not "go crazy" in terms of easing up on the COVID protocols.

Re: Coronavirus information: assorted web links
ryck #57593 01/16/21 10:53 PM
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Originally Posted by ryck
A news report yesterday evening talked about the problems that states have had with broken promises from the Trump administration. The states are guaranteed that they will get "X" number of doses by a specific date and they make rollout plans based on what they believe they will get. Then, shortly before the expected delivery date, the Trump administration simply reneges.
Part of the problem is that Project Warp Speed (the Fed’s vaccine distribution system to the states) switched from holding back second doses to shipping all available ones, based on the assumption that subsequent deliveries from the vaccine manufacturers would cover those second doses. When Secretary Azar announced this a few days ago, he didn’t mention that this policy had already been implemented for at least a week prior to his statement, and states expecting more doses because of this change found there weren’t going to be any beyond what they already received. I suspect that at least part of these ‘windfall’ doses were shipped to locations before their agreed upon delivery dates.

Another fly in the ointment is that the scaling up of vaccine production currently underway involves idling (part of) the production lines so that available vaccine is temporarily less than expected until production resumes at the new & higher levels, presumably sometime in February. This helps explain the reduction in deliveries to various countries and US states mentioned in the media during the last few days. The secrecy about all this maintained by various operatives in the Trump Administration didn’t help to alleviate the confusion.


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Re: Coronavirus information: assorted web links
alternaut #57600 01/17/21 06:42 PM
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Originally Posted by alternaut
Another fly in the ointment is that the scaling up of vaccine production currently underway involves idling (part of) the production lines so that available vaccine is temporarily less than expected until production resumes at the new & higher levels, presumably sometime in February. This helps explain the reduction in deliveries to various countries and US states mentioned in the media during the last few days. The secrecy about all this maintained by various operatives in the Trump Administration didn’t help to alleviate the confusion.

Again, given that we'll be getting the injection at a hospital, they most likely ordered a number of the vaccine a while ago, and with the recent change here in the state of Washington allowing people age 70 and over to receive it, already had this planned. That's good for us.

Re: Coronavirus information: assorted web links
MartyByrde #57601 01/17/21 06:42 PM
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Originally Posted by MartyByrde
Also, we are getting our vaccinations at a hospital, and hence I suspect that is one reason why they have the vaccine already. We could wait and get it from our PCP, but they do not yet know exactly when they will receive the vaccine (it will be the one manufactured by Moderna).

My wife and I are just so relieved that we'll be getting the vaccine soon, but again, we will not "go crazy" in terms of easing up on the COVID protocols.
All vaccine in Texas is controlled by each of the 254 counties. They allocate the vaccine to the injection sights (hospitals, pharmacies, nursing homes, etc.) and reservations that are required to receive the vaccinations. There has been some confusion over that, because some pharmacies and health care providers have started taking reservations for the time when the vaccine become available to the general public. At the present we are still catching up with all the first responders and nursing home residents. We are in the next group, over 65 with chronic health conditions and suppressed immune systems, and they are talking two or three months before our first shot. In the meantime there are reports that Emergency Ambulance attendants are being told not to transport patients likely to die. No stories of ambulances circling for hours looking for a hospital to take a patient as in Los Angeles however.

This all sounds more dire than we are actually experiencing, but our family and friends have taken the CDC's advice to heart and have not had COVID-19. I would complain about being house-bound, but what's the point, everyone else I know is equally house-bound.



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Re: Coronavirus information: assorted web links
joemikeb #57604 01/18/21 03:54 AM
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Originally Posted by joemikeb
Originally Posted by MartyByrde
Also, we are getting our vaccinations at a hospital, and hence I suspect that is one reason why they have the vaccine already. We could wait and get it from our PCP, but they do not yet know exactly when they will receive the vaccine (it will be the one manufactured by Moderna).

My wife and I are just so relieved that we'll be getting the vaccine soon, but again, we will not "go crazy" in terms of easing up on the COVID protocols.
All vaccine in Texas is controlled by each of the 254 counties. They allocate the vaccine to the injection sights (hospitals, pharmacies, nursing homes, etc.) and reservations that are required to receive the vaccinations. There has been some confusion over that, because some pharmacies and health care providers have started taking reservations for the time when the vaccine become available to the general public. At the present we are still catching up with all the first responders and nursing home residents. We are in the next group, over 65 with chronic health conditions and suppressed immune systems, and they are talking two or three months before our first shot. In the meantime there are reports that Emergency Ambulance attendants are being told not to transport patients likely to die. No stories of ambulances circling for hours looking for a hospital to take a patient as in Los Angeles however.

This all sounds more dire than we are actually experiencing, but our family and friends have taken the CDC's advice to heart and have not had COVID-19. I would complain about being house-bound, but what's the point, everyone else I know is equally house-bound.

Here in Washington, up to now, no pharmacies have the vaccine yet. But as I stated earlier, hospitals have been getting the vaccine for a while. And I suspect they were anticipating the next group that would become eligible, which (as I also said above) includes folks 70 years and older, and thus have ordered (and apparently received) some more. Our PCP has ordered the Moderna vaccine, but they don't expect to receive it until next month.

Except for doctor's visits and food shopping trips (Costco and a Korean store), I have been staying home too. I'm OK with that, and to help keep an optimistic view, I am looking forward to early April, when I will be able to pick ferns. I will be able to be in the fresh air, get some much needed exercise, and will not have to worry about social distancing. My wife also spends most to the time home, but she does get out every so often to play Korean cards at an apartment not too far away. Those folks are definitely following the CDC guidelines and protocols. Same with family we have in the area.

Anyway, so glad we are both getting the first dose of the vaccine 2 weeks from tomorrow.

Re: Coronavirus information: assorted web links
MartyByrde #57606 01/18/21 12:09 PM
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In my area of New York State, the Moderna vaccine is the one that is being used. About two weeks ago, adults 75 and older were added to the eligible list and I made an appointment for myself (my wife, at 74, was just under the the list). My appointment was cancelled the day before the scheduled dosage due to lack of doses. I, and others who had signed up, were put on a priority list for appointments when more vaccine became available. Yesterday, that happened and I now have an appointment for this week. I hope that this one succeeds!

In the meantime, New Yorkers over 65 are now eligible. My wife would be unable to use my appointment because it is restricted to those who had had their previous appointments cancelled. She will go for immunization as soon as it becomes possible. One big question is the availability of the second shot.


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Re: Coronavirus information: assorted web links
jchuzi #57607 01/18/21 02:00 PM
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My wife (79) had her vaccination today. They phoned her up – can you get down her now? Central London, Astra Zeneca jab, second jab on April 6th. I'm 73 and in the next wave. Still, I had a call from my GP and made appointments to be seen for my diabetes and asthma, so the NHS is still functioning. Having said that, they are arranging to move patients into hotels to make room for new Covid cases and non-urgent operations are being cancelled. On the one hand, they announced the highest ever one day death toll yesterday, and confirmed that after 10 days of lockdown the new infection rate is decreasing.

Despite the shocking numbers, people I see outside my front window (I overlook a park) seem to be taking little notice of masks and social distancing. I despair...


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Re: Coronavirus information: assorted web links
jchuzi #57609 01/18/21 05:45 PM
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Originally Posted by jchuzi
In my area of New York State, the Moderna vaccine is the one that is being used. About two weeks ago, adults 75 and older were added to the eligible list and I made an appointment for myself (my wife, at 74, was just under the the list). My appointment was cancelled the day before the scheduled dosage due to lack of doses. I, and others who had signed up, were put on a priority list for appointments when more vaccine became available. Yesterday, that happened and I now have an appointment for this week. I hope that this one succeeds!

In the meantime, New Yorkers over 65 are now eligible. My wife would be unable to use my appointment because it is restricted to those who had had their previous appointments cancelled. She will go for immunization as soon as it becomes possible. One big question is the availability of the second shot.

I'm originally from New York, but been in Washington since 1975. My wife is originally from Korea. I got notified, via EMail, that I was eligible for the COVID-19 vaccine. It came from the organization entitled CHI Franciscan Health (my wife and I have both visited physicians, specialists, and hospitals/clinics that are part of that network). I immediately went to their site and set up the appointments for both my wife and I, and got immediate confirmation for both. Again do not know which vaccine it is. Also, for the area I am in, there is not just one vaccine that is being dispensed. As I mentioned above, our PCP has ordered the Moderna vaccine. But when I visited my cardiologist last Wednesday, he said he had got the Pfizer vaccine.

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freelance #57610 01/18/21 05:48 PM
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Originally Posted by freelance
My wife (79) had her vaccination today. They phoned her up – can you get down her now? Central London, Astra Zeneca jab, second jab on April 6th. I'm 73 and in the next wave. Still, I had a call from my GP and made appointments to be seen for my diabetes and asthma, so the NHS is still functioning. Having said that, they are arranging to move patients into hotels to make room for new Covid cases and non-urgent operations are being cancelled. On the one hand, they announced the highest ever one day death toll yesterday, and confirmed that after 10 days of lockdown the new infection rate is decreasing.

Despite the shocking numbers, people I see outside my front window (I overlook a park) seem to be taking little notice of masks and social distancing. I despair...

Our oldest son lives in Richmond. He mentioned that basically all of London is shut down. In and around Seattle (we live about 20 miles south), there are still some places open. And for the most part, folks are good at following the COVID-19 protocols.

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It was announced in the press today that London has the highest Covid death rate in the world. And yet the police are still having to break up anti-lockdown protests. Nuts. All it takes is 25 people in a metropolitan area of 25 million. Nuts.

My wife went to bed early tonight with slight chills. The leaflet said she might experience flu-like symptoms for 2-3 days. She's never sick, so I'll be keeping an eye on her.


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freelance #57614 01/19/21 12:43 AM
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Originally Posted by freelance
And yet the police are still having to break up anti-lockdown protests. Nuts.
We have the same wackos in our city although there is a fellow holding his own protests - against the wackos. He shows up wherever they are and, about a half kilometer up the road from them, he displays a large sign that drivers can't miss. It says: "Caution - Ignorance Ahead".


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Re: Coronavirus information: assorted web links
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Originally Posted by freelance
It was announced in the press today that London has the highest Covid death rate in the world. And yet the police are still having to break up anti-lockdown protests. Nuts. All it takes is 25 people in a metropolitan area of 25 million. Nuts.

My wife went to bed early tonight with slight chills. The leaflet said she might experience flu-like symptoms for 2-3 days. She's never sick, so I'll be keeping an eye on her.

Which vaccine did she get? Pfizer or Moderna?

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Astra Zeneca


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Re: Coronavirus information: assorted web links
ryck #57618 01/19/21 02:38 PM
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Originally Posted by ryck
We have the same wackos in our city although there is a fellow holding his own protests - against the wackos. He shows up wherever they are and, about a half kilometer up the road from them, he displays a large sign that drivers can't miss. It says: "Caution - Ignorance Ahead".
If you see him, tell him he desperately needed in Austin, TX. There is an entire capital building and Governor's Mansion chock full of ignorant people. (NOTE: we have come up with a system for getting rid of the most ignorant, we elect them to congress. If you don't believe me, take Ted Cruze as my first exhibit. Please — just take him!)



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Re: Coronavirus information: assorted web links
freelance #57619 01/19/21 06:37 PM
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Originally Posted by freelance
Astra Zeneca

Interesting. That particular vaccine has not yet obtained approval here in the US.

Meanwhile, the governor of Washington state (where I am located) yesterday announced some significant changes:

1. The next group to get the vaccine will be for folks 65 years and older. Originally it was for folks 70 years and older.

2. The goal is to vaccinate 45,000 people each day throughout the state. But of course there some logistic/supply related issues that are still somewhat prevalent which can inhibit that goal.

Anyway, glad my wife and I don't have to worry about any of that, as we are already scheduled to receive our vaccine on February 1st.

Re: Coronavirus information: assorted web links
MartyByrde #57620 01/19/21 09:46 PM
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Originally Posted by MartyByrde
... I am looking forward to early April, when I will be able to pick ferns. I will be able to be in the fresh air, get some much needed exercise, and will not have to worry about social distancing.
Yes, yes, yes, and not quite: Researchers warn of another Covid spike if people mix after vaccine
After all, we're dealing with two-way traffic...

Last edited by alternaut; 01/19/21 09:48 PM.

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alternaut #57621 01/20/21 12:18 AM
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Originally Posted by alternaut
Originally Posted by MartyByrde
... I am looking forward to early April, when I will be able to pick ferns. I will be able to be in the fresh air, get some much needed exercise, and will not have to worry about social distancing.
Yes, yes, yes, and not quite: Researchers warn of another Covid spike if people mix after vaccine
After all, we're dealing with two-way traffic...

Forgot to clearly state that when I go pick the ferns, the areas I go to are isolated, and I hardly see anyone at all. Hence, no need to worry about social distancing, nor contacting (will have already received the 2 doses of the vaccine by then) and/or spreading the disease.

Around here, there are a good number of casinos still opened, and it definitely is concerning about people gathering there and being close to each other. I stopped going after the night before Thanksgiving). And I continue to have no plans in going back for quite a while, even with getting the vaccine.

Last edited by MartyByrde; 01/20/21 01:13 AM.
Re: Coronavirus information: assorted web links
alternaut #57622 01/20/21 01:49 AM
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Originally Posted by alternaut
Yes, yes, yes, and not quite: Researchers warn of another Covid spike if people mix after vaccine
After all, we're dealing with two-way traffic...
A doctor (infectious disease specialist) being interviewed on the radio also warned about this. He also said that just because the numbers showed the vaccines to be more than 90% effective in carefully conducted clinical trials, the numbers would likely be significantly lower in the real world.

Here in Canada, stupid political decisions are also compromising the effectiveness of the vaccines, because some provincial governments have decided (contrary to the vaccine mfgr's advice) not to reserve the second doses, and are using up their entire supply for first doses, then crossing their fingers hoping that more vaccines will arrive in time for the second dose. At the same time, Pfizer has announced that, starting immediately, they will reduce or completely stop shipments for a month, so that they can make changes to their plant in Belgium to increase production. So, I'm rather glad that I'm far enough down on the list, that things will be operating smoothly (hopefully) by the time I get my shot.


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Re: Coronavirus information: assorted web links
Bob_00001 #57623 01/20/21 05:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Bob_00001
Originally Posted by alternaut
Yes, yes, yes, and not quite: Researchers warn of another Covid spike if people mix after vaccine
After all, we're dealing with two-way traffic...
A doctor (infectious disease specialist) being interviewed on the radio also warned about this. He also said that just because the numbers showed the vaccines to be more than 90% effective in carefully conducted clinical trials, the numbers would likely be significantly lower in the real world.

I wonder if such a statement is made with the assumption that folks who get the vaccine will no longer practice the necessary protocols. I sure hope folks will be smart enough to continue to follow them even after getting the vaccine. I know for certain both my wife and I will.

Unfortunately, thee will still be folks who do not practice the necessary protocols, and with nicer weather coming in the spring and summer, that could get worse.

Originally Posted by Bob_00001
[quote=alternaut]
Here in Canada, stupid political decisions are also compromising the effectiveness of the vaccines, because some provincial governments have decided (contrary to the vaccine mfgr's advice) not to reserve the second doses, and are using up their entire supply for first doses, then crossing their fingers hoping that more vaccines will arrive in time for the second dose. At the same time, Pfizer has announced that, starting immediately, they will reduce or completely stop shipments for a month, so that they can make changes to their plant in Belgium to increase production. So, I'm rather glad that I'm far enough down on the list, that things will be operating smoothly (hopefully) by the time I get my shot.

Man, talk about a perfect example of what Tom Hanks said in Forrest Gump: Stupid is as stupid does. Thankfully have not heard anything like that in the US, and specifically in Washington state where we are located. I am making the logical assumption that since we are getting the first dose of the vaccine at a hospital, they have enough (maybe more than enough) for the second dose.

Re: Coronavirus information: assorted web links
MartyByrde #57624 01/20/21 06:59 AM
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Originally Posted by MartyByrde
I wonder if such a statement is made with the assumption that folks who get the vaccine will no longer practice the necessary protocols.
While that is a big concern, I think he was pointing out that in a clinical trial, they are careful to make sure that everything is perfect. In actual practice there are always going to be a lot of unforeseen problems, due to possible mishandling of the vaccine, human error, etc. That interview was a few weeks ago, so my facts may not be accurate, but I seem to recall him saying that a vaccine that is 90% effective in a clinical trial will typically be more like 70% effective in practice. That's still pretty good, but it explains why people shouldn't consider themselves to be invincible after getting their shot.

Fortunately, the province where I live is reserving enough vaccine for the second dose, at least for now.


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Re: Coronavirus information: assorted web links
MartyByrde #57625 01/20/21 11:21 AM
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The Astra Zeneca vaccine is the Oxford one. It's made here and easy to handle/refrigerate. But supply is an issue, so second jabs are being offered after three months, instead of three weeks so that as many as possible can get their first jabs before the second is delivered. My wife had her first a couple days ago. Despite going to bed with chills, she feels fine now.

I got a text today offering me a range of dates and locations for my jabs. So, Monday, I get my first a short train ride away, then the 2nd on April 16th. To me, this means that lockdown last until the end of April at the very least. Maybe by autumn, things will start returning to "the new normal".

I put a lot of trust in the NHS. You have to – London has the highest Covid death rate in the world right now.

My wife's 80th birthday is 14 April. I've booked her favourite restaurant, just in case we're allowed. I have not lost all hope. Yet...


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Re: Coronavirus information: assorted web links
MartyByrde #57626 01/20/21 03:46 PM
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Originally Posted by MartyByrde
Man, talk about a perfect example of what Tom Hanks said in Forrest Gump: Stupid is as stupid does. Thankfully have not heard anything like that in the US, and specifically in Washington state where we are located. I am making the logical assumption that since we are getting the first dose of the vaccine at a hospital, they have enough (maybe more than enough) for the second dose.
As I mentioned above, not holding back second doses is exactly what the Trump administration did, starting about two weeks ago. That said, I suppose it's (still) up to the states or localities to either keep second doses in reserve, or hope for timely additional shipments. And if you don't mind my saying so, from where I sit it's hard to judge the logic of your assumption about your local hospital's policy... wink


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Re: Coronavirus information: assorted web links
Bob_00001 #57627 01/20/21 06:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Bob_00001
Originally Posted by MartyByrde
I wonder if such a statement is made with the assumption that folks who get the vaccine will no longer practice the necessary protocols.
While that is a big concern, I think he was pointing out that in a clinical trial, they are careful to make sure that everything is perfect. In actual practice there are always going to be a lot of unforeseen problems, due to possible mishandling of the vaccine, human error, etc. That interview was a few weeks ago, so my facts may not be accurate, but I seem to recall him saying that a vaccine that is 90% effective in a clinical trial will typically be more like 70% effective in practice. That's still pretty good, but it explains why people shouldn't consider themselves to be invincible after getting their shot.

Fortunately, the province where I live is reserving enough vaccine for the second dose, at least for now.
Well stated! And I like your use of the descriptive word invincible. Anyone who thinks they are after getting the vaccine needs to have their head examined.

Re: Coronavirus information: assorted web links
alternaut #57629 01/20/21 06:52 PM
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Originally Posted by alternaut
Originally Posted by MartyByrde
Man, talk about a perfect example of what Tom Hanks said in Forrest Gump: Stupid is as stupid does. Thankfully have not heard anything like that in the US, and specifically in Washington state where we are located. I am making the logical assumption that since we are getting the first dose of the vaccine at a hospital, they have enough (maybe more than enough) for the second dose.
As I mentioned above, not holding back second doses is exactly what the Trump administration did, starting about two weeks ago. That said, I suppose it's (still) up to the states or localities to either keep second doses in reserve, or hope for timely additional shipments. And if you don't mind my saying so, from where I sit it's hard to judge the logic of your assumption about your local hospital's policy... wink
That tactic by the (now defunct) Trump administration does not seem to have happened, as I am not seeing or hearing of many (if any) places running out of the vaccine, and definitely not here in Washington state. And also, with the very recent change the governor announced on Monday regarding both expanding the number of people eligible to receive the vaccine and supply (although that will take some time), just the opposite seems to be the case. And now it looks like some more "outlets" are scheduling the vaccines. That includes the local Safeway pharmacy close to where we live. We actually have typically received our vaccines (Flu, Shingles) from that pharmacy.

As for my assumption about the hospital, they (and other such institutions) have already been giving the vaccine to the first group of qualified individuals (health care workers, etc.) for a couple months. One would think logically that they have more than enough supply of the vaccine available. They are, though, requiring an appointment to get the shot, which my wife and I already have. And I just found out that at the end of the appointment, they will schedule the second one. So, given that, with all due respect, 1 + 1 = 2, they would have the second doses available.

I would not be surprised to see a big rush happen as eligible folks scramble to get the vaccine. Fortunately, my wife and I have that covered, given that we already have our appointments for the vaccine.

Re: Coronavirus information: assorted web links
MartyByrde #57630 01/20/21 07:16 PM
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Maybe Washington state is not running out of vaccine, but New York State definitely has a shortage. I had had an appointment to be vaccinated last week but that was cancelled because there were not enough dosages. My appointment has been rescheduled for tomorrow but my county, although promised 1200 doses, will probably only get 1000. All of NYS is affected.


Jon

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Re: Coronavirus information: assorted web links
jchuzi #57632 01/20/21 09:07 PM
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Originally Posted by jchuzi
Maybe Washington state is not running out of vaccine, but New York State definitely has a shortage. I had had an appointment to be vaccinated last week but that was cancelled because there were not enough dosages. My appointment has been rescheduled for tomorrow but my county, although promised 1200 doses, will probably only get 1000. All of NYS is affected.
The next few weeks here in Washington state could be revealing regarding the vaccine. So far, there have been very few, if any, issues up here. But as I mentioned above, with the governor on Monday announcing a more aggressive roll out of the vaccine, the main issues will be 1) how fast can the re-supply of the vaccine happen, 2) how fast and efficient the distribution is, and 3) how many folks actually sign up to get the vaccine. Last week when I visited my cardiologist, and had some lab work done right after the visit, the woman who took my blood said that she is going to wait to get to vaccine, so that she can see what side effects, etc. occur. Although she is not in this next eligible group (like my wife and I), I wonder how prevalent such thinking is.

But once again given that we will be getting the vaccine from a hospital which has already been involved since the beginning with administering the vaccine to eligible "groups", I am confident (and rightfully so) that they have enough for both doses that my wife and I will need.

Last edited by MartyByrde; 01/20/21 09:08 PM.
Re: Coronavirus information: assorted web links
MartyByrde #57633 01/20/21 11:50 PM
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Originally Posted by MartyByrde
One would think logically that they have more than enough supply of the vaccine available.
Yes....especially since there are several Pfizer plants in the U.S. and Trump decreed that not one dose would leave the country until every American was inoculated.

Last edited by ryck; 01/20/21 11:52 PM.

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Re: Coronavirus information: assorted web links
ryck #57634 01/21/21 01:09 AM
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Originally Posted by ryck
Originally Posted by MartyByrde
One would think logically that they have more than enough supply of the vaccine available.
Yes....especially since there are several Pfizer plants in the U.S. and Trump decreed that not one dose would leave the country until every American was inoculated.
Cannot say anything about that. Also, do not know the current "split" between the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines. As I mentioned previously, my PCP has ordered the Moderna vaccine.

Re: Coronavirus information: assorted web links
MartyByrde #57639 01/21/21 07:30 PM
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I got the first dose of the Moderna vaccine today and have an appointment for the second dose in 28 days. Hopefully, there won't be any glitches in supply. So far, I feel no effects from the shot.


Jon

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jchuzi #57641 01/21/21 08:03 PM
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I've got no idea what's going on in NYC.

Early on in the pandemic I got at least one robo-call a week from the NYC Health Department - even got one from a live person - but that ended when things lightened up, and I haven't heard so much as a peep out of them since then, even since the surge began.

I know that my dentist got his first shot on Monday, and I know nothing more about vaccinations than that.


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In Memory of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire
Re: Coronavirus information: assorted web links
jchuzi #57647 01/22/21 02:24 AM
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Originally Posted by jchuzi
I got the first dose of the Moderna vaccine today and have an appointment for the second dose in 28 days. Hopefully, there won't be any glitches in supply. So far, I feel no effects from the shot.
Way to go! Hopefully the second dose will be available on February 18th.

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MartyByrde #57730 02/01/21 06:15 PM
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Well, today is the day my wife and I get the first dose of the vaccine. Sure glad the network we have been using notified me back in January about the availability of appointments to get the vaccine. There have been many horror stories from qualified folks that are having a devil of a time trying to get an appointment. Also, there are some first come, first serve locations, and one of my wife's friends, and another couple, had to wait more than 3 hours for their shot! No way could we endure that!

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MartyByrde #57736 02/01/21 11:08 PM
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Originally Posted by MartyByrde
Well, today is the day my wife and I get the first dose of the vaccine. Sure glad the network we have been using notified me back in January about the availability of appointments to get the vaccine. There have been many horror stories from qualified folks that are having a devil of a time trying to get an appointment. Also, there are some first come, first serve locations, and one of my wife's friends, and another couple, had to wait more than 3 hours for their shot! No way could we endure that!

Well, things went quickly and smoothly for my wife and I. We actually arrived about 15 minutes early, but we were able to get in rather quickly, as that facility had things very well organized. They provided the Moderna vaccine, which I was glad to get. I got my shot at 1:03 PM, and my wife got hers at 1:02 PM. We both had to then wait 15 minutes before we could leave. Meanwhile, the staff made the appointment for the second dose. That will be on Thursday, March 4th, at 2:20 PM for both of us.

So, all in all, very smooth. And I did not feel a thing with the shot! In fact, both the flu shot I got back in August, and the second Shingles shot I got back in March, hurt more.

Last edited by MartyByrde; 02/02/21 01:33 AM.
Re: Coronavirus information: assorted web links
MartyByrde #58107 02/27/21 08:01 PM
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I got the second dose of the Moderna vaccine 28 days after the first. The first time, I had no side effects. The second time, I started to feel fatigued and had a sore throat a few hours after the shot. The sore throat disappeared within 30 minutes but the fatigue continued into the next day, when I developed a temperature of 100.5. In addition, I had subliminal nausea and reduced appetite. This sounds worse than it was. The symptoms did not interfere when I had to shovel snow for 3 hours (and I felt better doing that activity than sitting around). All ill effects were gone the next day.

My wife just received the first dose of the Pfizer vaccine and, a day later, her only "complaint" (and that's much too strong a word) is that her arm has a very minor soreness at the injection site. We fully expect that she will have some side effects when she gets the second dose, so we will be prepared.

Some advice from an RN and MD: If you need to take medication to reduce your discomfort, take Tylenol ONLY. DO NOT USE Advil or aspirin. (This applies to generics, naturally.) This advice applies specifically to the COVID vaccine and is not a recommendation for any other use. For the record, I never was ill enough to feel compelled to take Tylenol.


Jon

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jchuzi #58110 02/27/21 09:49 PM
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I just stumbled across this resource this morning....and although it disclaims full effectiveness for other than a select few states, it was able to show me COVID vaccination availabilities within my geographic region and as such I was able to schedule an initial and 2nd dose appointment immediately.

https://vaccinefinder.org

....it is SOOOO MUCH more effective than the fragmented county by county links and tools that currently serve Oregon!!!!! Each of those separate resources shows only a limited listing of availabilities while completely missing ALL THE OTHER VALID RESOURCES.

..just sayin'....


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Re: Coronavirus information: assorted web links
jchuzi #58117 02/28/21 01:01 AM
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Originally Posted by jchuzi
I got the second dose of the Moderna vaccine 28 days after the first. The first time, I had no side effects. The second time, I started to feel fatigued and had a sore throat a few hours after the shot. The sore throat disappeared within 30 minutes but the fatigue continued into the next day, when I developed a temperature of 100.5. In addition, I had subliminal nausea and reduced appetite. This sounds worse than it was. The symptoms did not interfere when I had to shovel snow for 3 hours (and I felt better doing that activity than sitting around). All ill effects were gone the next day.

My wife just received the first dose of the Pfizer vaccine and, a day later, her only "complaint" (and that's much too strong a word) is that her arm has a very minor soreness at the injection site. We fully expect that she will have some side effects when she gets the second dose, so we will be prepared.

Some advice from an RN and MD: If you need to take medication to reduce your discomfort, take Tylenol ONLY. DO NOT USE Advil or aspirin. (This applies to generics, naturally.) This advice applies specifically to the COVID vaccine and is not a recommendation for any other use. For the record, I never was ill enough to feel compelled to take Tylenol.

Well, my wife and I are getting our second dose of the Moderna Vaccine this coming Thursday March 4th, which will be 31 days since we got the first one. It does seem to depend on the individual as to what side effects will occur. I've talked with some folks that got both doses (one got Moderna, the other Pfizer), and the couple who got the Moderna one had no issues at all, but the person who got the Pfizer one had some (and for some folks at his company who got the Pfizer one, again it was "hit and miss" regarding side effects). The only thing my wife and I experienced after the first dose was some soreness at the area where we got the injection the next day, and for the day after that. My wife also has an appointment with an eye doctor shortly thereafter, so hopefully all will be fine (I think it will be).

After we got that first dose, there was no restriction regarding what pain reliever we could take (we did not need to take anything). We'll see what they tell us on Thursday (we have both Advil and Tylenol). As for aspirin, I do need to take a daily 81 mg tablet for my heart "condition" (everything is fine after getting my stent and TAVR procedures done back in June). I'll remember to ask them about that.

Last edited by MartyByrde; 02/28/21 01:37 AM.
Re: Coronavirus information: assorted web links
MacManiac #58118 02/28/21 01:10 AM
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Originally Posted by MacManiac
I just stumbled across this resource this morning....and although it disclaims full effectiveness for other than a select few states, it was able to show me COVID vaccination availabilities within my geographic region and as such I was able to schedule an initial and 2nd dose appointment immediately.

https://vaccinefinder.org

....it is SOOOO MUCH more effective than the fragmented county by county links and tools that currently serve Oregon!!!!! Each of those separate resources shows only a limited listing of availabilities while completely missing ALL THE OTHER VALID RESOURCES.

..just sayin'....

Well, I am just SO, SO HAPPY that I started using the site for MyChart (https://mychart.catholichealth.net/prd/Authentication/Login?) last May, as I got notified back in mid January that we were eligible to get the vaccine. Immediately, I chose of of their facilities (closest one to where we live), and was able to schedule an appointment without any hassle for both my wife and I (got it for February 1st). And at that appointment, after getting the shot, they scheduled both of us for the second dose (this coming Thursday). But I have heard how difficult it is up here in the Seattle area to get scheduled. Yeah, the State of Washington did set up a mechanism for doing that, but it is a zoo! I tried using it just for fun, and I could not get an appointment ANYWHERE!

BTW, when doing a google search of MyChart, here are the results:

https://www.google.com/search?q=MyC...623j0j1&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

As can be seen, there are numerous MyChart "sites", depending on the Health Care system. This site is the "basic" one: https://www.mychart.com/

Last edited by MartyByrde; 02/28/21 01:32 AM.
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MartyByrde #58124 02/28/21 02:40 PM
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Here in Texas you can't get an appointment anywhere without going through the county health system. If you go through Vaccinefinder it will tell you what sites have which vaccine, but you cannot make an appointment and you can only get the vaccine with an appointment and you can only get an appointment going through the county health system. 😡



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joemikeb #58126 02/28/21 06:28 PM
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Originally Posted by joemikeb
Here in Texas you can't get an appointment anywhere without going through the county health system. If you go through Vaccinefinder it will tell you what sites have which vaccine, but you cannot make an appointment and you can only get the vaccine with an appointment and you can only get an appointment going through the county health system. 😡

Not sure if it will speed things up, but after clicking on that "basic" site for MyChart I mentioned above, and entering "Texas", got a list of numerous Health care providers/networks.

Re: Coronavirus information: assorted web links
MartyByrde #58133 03/01/21 04:47 PM
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Originally Posted by MartyByrde
Not sure if it will speed things up, but after clicking on that "basic" site for MyChart I mentioned above, and entering "Texas", got a list of numerous Health care providers/networks.
I looked and found that you still must have an appointment to get the vaccine, and only the County health department can issue those appointments.



"Sacred cows make the best hamburger"

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Re: Coronavirus information: assorted web links
joemikeb #58135 03/01/21 06:52 PM
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Originally Posted by joemikeb
Originally Posted by MartyByrde
Not sure if it will speed things up, but after clicking on that "basic" site for MyChart I mentioned above, and entering "Texas", got a list of numerous Health care providers/networks.
I looked and found that you still must have an appointment to get the vaccine, and only the County health department can issue those appointments.

That's a bummer! I did notice that some of those links for Texas were also part of the same network I used, CHI Franciscan. Again, it was smooth for me. And given that we are getting the Moderna vaccine (second shot on Thursday), and they are working on a booster shot for the newer variants, we'll (most likely) get notified through MyChart about its availability.

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MartyByrde #58174 03/05/21 01:14 AM
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Well, my wife and I got our second Moderna shot about 3 hours ago, and so far, so good. The women who did the injection did say that possibly a fever could happen in about 6 hours. When I asked what can I take for that, she said Aspirin, Tylenol, etc. We'll see. But so far, so good.

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MartyByrde #58176 03/05/21 03:53 PM
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My wife and I got our first Pfizer shot just before noon yesterday. My wife is complaining of a sore arm, but so far the only reaction I have suffered is sore feet from being on them so long. Both of us commented on how expeditiously and well the entire process had been handled. Then last night we each received a robocall apologizing for running out of time for every one to get their shot yesterday and would we like to reschedule for today. 🤷‍♀️🤷‍♂️ I have no idea what transpired late yesterday afternoon to slow the process, but we declined a second first shot.

In the meantime the responses to our Governor's decision to completely open the state are running roughly 50 to 1 that the Governor is an gibbering idiot whose stupidity and cupidity are exceeded only by our State Attorney General.



"Sacred cows make the best hamburger"

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Re: Coronavirus information: assorted web links
joemikeb #58177 03/05/21 04:22 PM
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Try not to sugar coat it now.....how do you REALLY feel? blush grin cool


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Re: Coronavirus information: assorted web links
joemikeb #58179 03/05/21 05:33 PM
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Originally Posted by joemikeb
In the meantime the responses to our Governor's decision to completely open the state are running roughly 50 to 1 that the Governor is an gibbering idiot whose stupidity and cupidity are exceeded only by our State Attorney General.
His decision seems to be very Trumpian..... that is, when faced with a political situation that reflects badly (in this case, the governor's role in the power problems), make a major announcement that will divert attention..... even if the decision means more people will die.


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Re: Coronavirus information: assorted web links
ryck #58181 03/05/21 05:46 PM
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Well, I am doing OK, although my arm is definitely more sore this time. But my wife is not doing as good. Her body feels sore all over. This is the first time I ever seen her react in a negative way to a vaccine. She is typically stronger than me.

Hopefully it will be over soon for her.

Re: Coronavirus information: assorted web links
joemikeb #58182 03/05/21 05:51 PM
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Originally Posted by joemikeb
My wife and I got our first Pfizer shot just before noon yesterday. My wife is complaining of a sore arm, but so far the only reaction I have suffered is sore feet from being on them so long. Both of us commented on how expeditiously and well the entire process had been handled. Then last night we each received a robocall apologizing for running out of time for every one to get their shot yesterday and would we like to reschedule for today. 🤷‍♀️🤷‍♂️ I have no idea what transpired late yesterday afternoon to slow the process, but we declined a second first shot.

Wise move. Obviously a glitch. For us, just like when we got our first shot, the process was smooth and efficient.

Originally Posted by joemikeb
In the meantime the responses to our Governor's decision to completely open the state are running roughly 50 to 1 that the Governor is an gibbering idiot whose stupidity and cupidity are exceeded only by our State Attorney General.

I myself think it's crazy what he did. We have not spoken to our youngest son, though, about his thoughts. As it is, I expect we'll eventually need a booster shot, and fortunately Moderna (and Pfizer) are working on one.

Re: Coronavirus information: assorted web links
joemikeb #58187 03/05/21 08:36 PM
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I got the Pfizer jab. The next day, I felt like I've been hit in the arm with a sledge hammer. It was soreness, not pain, and it lasted a day. I felt fine otherwise. Don't know if it was the vaccine or the injection technique.

My wife got the AstraZeneca jab. She felt "frail" in the evening after her shot and went to bed early. Felt fine the next day.

We are both looking forward to our second jabs, but have to wait 12 weeks. Our government has decided to make us wait longer for the second jab so that more people could get their first jab. Makes sense to me.

We get our second jab in April (6th and 16th – different age groups).


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Re: Coronavirus information: assorted web links
freelance #58188 03/05/21 08:55 PM
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Originally Posted by freelance
We are both looking forward to our second jabs, but have to wait 12 weeks.

We get our second jab in April (6th and 16th – different age groups).

That's only 4 weeks.


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Re: Coronavirus information: assorted web links
freelance #58190 03/05/21 09:00 PM
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Originally Posted by freelance
I got the Pfizer jab. The next day, I felt like I've been hit in the arm with a sledge hammer. It was soreness, not pain, and it lasted a day. I felt fine otherwise. Don't know if it was the vaccine or the injection technique.

My wife got the AstraZeneca jab. She felt "frail" in the evening after her shot and went to bed early. Felt fine the next day.

We are both looking forward to our second jabs, but have to wait 12 weeks. Our government has decided to make us wait longer for the second jab so that more people could get their first jab. Makes sense to me.

We get our second jab in April (6th and 16th – different age groups).

Glad both of you are fine. In actuality, I am feeling a little tired, and a little "flush". However, I felt some what like that before I got the shot. My wife though is definitely feeling it. In fact, she is resting on the couch today (she was originally going to play cards with her Korean friends). As far as the injection technique, neither of us noticed and/or felt anything different, although I did feel a little "pinch" this time.

I don't know if it's s good idea to stretch out the time between doses. The clinical trials were performed with specific time frames between doses (21 days for Pfizer, and 28 for Moderna). I of course know those numbers are not set in stone, and in fact recently, it has been mentioned that the time frame between doses can be 4 to 6 weeks. (Fortunately, ours was 31 days (instead of the originally-stated 28 days), so we are good). But 12 weeks sounds like a long time. I just hope for your wife and yourself, those recommendations are based on solid scientific facts.

As it is, my wife and I are still going to continue with our self-quarantine, just like before we got the shots. I do suspect that we will eventually need a booster shot, given that the Moderna vaccine was developed based on the original strain of the virus. But fortunately, both Moderna and Pfizer are working on developing such a booster shot.

Last edited by MartyByrde; 03/05/21 09:16 PM.
Re: Coronavirus information: assorted web links
artie505 #58191 03/05/21 09:02 PM
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Originally Posted by artie505
Originally Posted by freelance
We are both looking forward to our second jabs, but have to wait 12 weeks.

We get our second jab in April (6th and 16th – different age groups).

That's only 4 weeks.

The post where that came from does not specifically state when his wife and himself got the first one. Maybe it's in an earlier post?

Re: Coronavirus information: assorted web links
MartyByrde #58193 03/05/21 09:28 PM
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Originally Posted by MartyByrde
Originally Posted by artie505
Originally Posted by freelance
We are both looking forward to our second jabs, but have to wait 12 weeks.

We get our second jab in April (6th and 16th – different age groups).

That's only 4 weeks.

The post where that came from does not specifically state when his wife and himself got the first one. Maybe it's in an earlier post?

Oops! I misread freelance's post as saying he just got his first shot, but he actually did get it a while ago.


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Re: Coronavirus information: assorted web links
MartyByrde #58197 03/05/21 11:01 PM
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Originally Posted by MartyByrde
As it is, I expect we'll eventually need a booster shot, and fortunately Moderna (and Pfizer) are working on one.
At the rate COVID is mutating, I will not be surprised if the booster shots become an annual, or even semi-annual, ordeal similar to the influenza shot. It is a virus after all, and mutation is a viral thing.

In the meantime I have seen reports that "COVID Recovery Clinics" opening up all over the country to treat the very long lasting after effects of having had COVID-19. Apparently they are a growth industry. COVID-19, the infection that keeps on infecting.



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Re: Coronavirus information: assorted web links
joemikeb #58198 03/05/21 11:24 PM
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Originally Posted by joemikeb
Originally Posted by MartyByrde
As it is, I expect we'll eventually need a booster shot, and fortunately Moderna (and Pfizer) are working on one.
At the rate COVID is mutating, I will not be surprised if the booster shots become an annual, or even semi-annual, ordeal similar to the influenza shot. It is a virus after all, and mutation is a viral thing.

I'm not surprised either. Given that the booster shot would be mainly in response to these new variants, I would think, though, that after our booster shot for the Moderna vaccine, a permanent vaccine would be the norm for COVID, and thus that would just be another one my wife and I would get every year. As it is, we always get the one for the flu (high dosage variety) as soon as it becomes available, typically in August or September.

Re: Coronavirus information: assorted web links
artie505 #58199 03/06/21 12:06 AM
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Originally Posted by artie505
Originally Posted by freelance
We are both looking forward to our second jabs, but have to wait 12 weeks.

We get our second jab in April (6th and 16th – different age groups).

That's only 4 weeks.

Yeah, I got my first jab on January 25th. The hospitals tend to give the Pfizer jab, which is harder to handle. The clinics give the AstraZeneca jab, which doesn't require such specialised refrigeration.

They both appear to be doing the job better than anyone predicted.

The whole country is supposed to be be let off the leash on June 21st. I've already booked our "staycation" in the UK. The first date I could get was in August.


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Re: Coronavirus information: assorted web links
freelance #58200 03/06/21 12:24 AM
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Originally Posted by freelance
Originally Posted by artie505
Originally Posted by freelance
We are both looking forward to our second jabs, but have to wait 12 weeks.

We get our second jab in April (6th and 16th – different age groups).

That's only 4 weeks.

Yeah, I got my first jab on January 25th. The hospitals tend to give the Pfizer jab, which is harder to handle. The clinics give the AstraZeneca jab, which doesn't require such specialised refrigeration.

They both appear to be doing the job better than anyone predicted.

The whole country is supposed to be be let off the leash on June 21st. I've already booked our "staycation" in the UK. The first date I could get was in August.

Not having such differences here between the Moderna and Pfizer vaccines. The Johnson & Johnson vaccine is just starting to come, and like the one from AstraZeneca, can be stored in a refrigerator. I suspect, though, that there will be no such difficulties with the J & J vaccine, given how long the practitioners have been working with the Moderna and Pfizer ones.

Texas has already lifted all restrictions, and Mississippi will follow soon. Myself, I think that's crazy, given that all the new strains are appearing.

As for when the US will be "off the leash", don't see it happening any time soon. But if all of the UK will be "free", maybe we can visit our son and daughter-in-law in the fall (she is actually in the hospital now waiting to deliver our grand daughter).

Last edited by MartyByrde; 03/06/21 12:26 AM.
Re: Coronavirus information: assorted web links
freelance #58201 03/06/21 04:22 AM
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Originally Posted by freelance
I got the Pfizer jab. The next day, I felt like I've been hit in the arm with a sledge hammer. It was soreness, not pain, and it lasted a day. I felt fine otherwise. Don't know if it was the vaccine or the injection technique.

My wife got the AstraZeneca jab. She felt "frail" in the evening after her shot and went to bed early. Felt fine the next day.
A few comments:

1. You can minimize soreness at the injection location. If it’s your arm, have the jab placed in your dominant one. This helps to dissipate the injected volume, which lessens local discomfort. It also helps to work your deltoids by moving your upper arms from your side up to your shoulders (‘chicken flaps’), let’s say 10 times every half hour for several hours. You’ll still feel the jab, but it won’t be nearly as annoying if you notice it at all. Secondary effects like fever, chills, tiredness, general malaise etc. are due to your immune system, and tend to last no more than a day. They also tend to be more pronounced after the second dose.

2. While two doses is a vaccination ‘standard’ (ideally making contact with the actual pathogen the 3rd exposure), the second dose of a particular vaccine may not boost your immune system much beyond what the first achieved. That’s why the J&J vaccine (developed by Janssen Pharma in the Netherlands) only uses one dose, and the Pfizer vaccine (developed by BioNTech in Germany) uses two. Similarly, while the interval between dose 1 and 2 usually is several weeks, it may be longer, as is now practiced in the UK. There are indications that this may be even more effective than shorter intervals, although this depends on both the vaccine and the actual duration of the interval.

3. The percentage vaccine effectiveness you hear about usually refers to the chance of NOT getting MILD disease. The chance of NOT getting more severe disease, hospitalization or death is increasingly larger, and runs from about 80% for no severe disease to about 100% for no death (J&J; Pfizer & Moderna numbers are somewhat higher). Bottom line: take any vaccine that’s available to you, as soon as you’re eligible.

4. Variants only develop when the disease is actively going around, be it endemic or pandemic. As soon as that stops, so does the occurrence of variants. That’s another reason (beyond protecting people) why it’s important to stop the disease’s rampage ASAP, a.o. by maintaining masking and social distancing, and avoiding crowds, particularly indoors. Because we don’t yet know if vaccinated people can harbor and spread virus, this will be necessary for everyone, vaccinated or not, until ‘herd immunity’ levels are achieved, usually beyond 70% of the population. Even so, for the foreseeable future expect periodic (re)vaccination as with the flu.


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Re: Coronavirus information: assorted web links
alternaut #58202 03/06/21 04:59 AM
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Originally Posted by alternaut
Originally Posted by freelance
I got the Pfizer jab. The next day, I felt like I've been hit in the arm with a sledge hammer. It was soreness, not pain, and it lasted a day. I felt fine otherwise. Don't know if it was the vaccine or the injection technique.

My wife got the AstraZeneca jab. She felt "frail" in the evening after her shot and went to bed early. Felt fine the next day.
A few comments:

1. You can minimize soreness at the injection location. If it’s your arm, have the jab placed in your dominant one. This helps to dissipate the injected volume, which lessens local discomfort. It also helps to work your deltoids by moving your upper arms from your side up to your shoulders (‘chicken flaps’), let’s say 10 times every half hour for several hours. You’ll still feel the jab, but it won’t be nearly as annoying if you notice it at all. Secondary effects like fever, chills, tiredness, general malaise etc. are due to your immune system, and tend to last no more than a day. They also tend to be more pronounced after the second dose.

2. While two doses is a vaccination ‘standard’ (ideally making contact with the actual pathogen the 3rd exposure), the second dose of a particular vaccine may not boost your immune system much beyond what the first achieved. That’s why the J&J vaccine (developed by Janssen Pharma in the Netherlands) only uses one dose, and the Pfizer vaccine (developed by BioNTech in Germany) uses two. Similarly, while the interval between dose 1 and 2 usually is several weeks, it may be longer, as is now practiced in the UK. There are indications that this may be even more effective than shorter intervals, although this depends on both the vaccine and the actual duration of the interval.

3. The percentage vaccine effectiveness you hear about usually refers to the chance of NOT getting MILD disease. The chance of NOT getting more severe disease, hospitalization or death is increasingly larger, and runs from about 80% for no severe disease to about 100% for no death (J&J; Pfizer & Moderna numbers are somewhat higher). Bottom line: take any vaccine that’s available to you, as soon as you’re eligible.

4. Variants only develop when the disease is actively going around, be it endemic or pandemic. As soon as that stops, so does the occurrence of variants. That’s another reason (beyond protecting people) why it’s important to stop the disease’s rampage ASAP, a.o. by maintaining masking and social distancing, and avoiding crowds, particularly indoors. Because we don’t yet know if vaccinated people can harbor and spread virus, this will be necessary for everyone, vaccinated or not, until ‘herd immunity’ levels are achieved, usually beyond 70% of the population. Even so, for the foreseeable future expect periodic (re)vaccination as with the flu.

Much of what you say is well stated. Just a few comments:

1. I did not feel a thing when I got the first dose of the Moderna vaccine. My arm, though, was sore the next day, and the day after (same for my wife). With the second dose, I did feel a very, very slight "pinch", but hardly noticeable. However, today it is rather sore (more so than with the first dose), although the pain is slowly subsiding.

2. Regarding the number of doses, it's important to remember that the clinical trials for both the Moderna and Pfizer vaccines were conducted with initially specific intervals between the 2 doses: 21 days for the Pfizer vaccine, and 28 days for the Moderna vaccine. The results of those critical trials is what lead to each of them being approved by the various "agencies", with it being the FDA here in the US. Somewhat recently, it has been stated that 4 to 6 weeks between the two doses for either one is acceptable. But it has yet to be demonstrated that only 1 dose is all that is needed. Thus, it is best to get the 2 doses. Again, that is the case for the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines. For Johnson & Johnson, and AstraZeneca, the clinical trials showed that only one dose is needed. As I mentioned above, I am happy that both my wife and I received the required 2 doses of the Moderna Vaccine, and also that they were 31 days apart, which is very close to the original 28 days.

3. Agree totally about getting whichever one is available. Here in Washington state, when one has an initial appointment, there will soon be 3 vaccines available: Moderna, Pfizer, and Johnson & Johnson. In actuality, when my wife and I made our first appointment, we did not know it was the Moderna vaccine until the time and day of our appointment. (The AstraZeneca vaccine should be receiving FDA approval soon, from what I have read).

4. Also agree with #4. And yes, it is not known right now as to whether vaccinated folks (like my wife and I) can harbor and spread the virus. Be that as it may, we are STILL going to do the same things we have been doing: wearing masks, staying 6 feet apart from others, etc. And we are even more stringent: myself I only venture outside a couple of times a week (we do go for walks near our place), and maybe once a week to go to Costco and/or HMart (a Korean store). Same with my wife, although she also (usually once a week) gets together to play Korean cards with 3 others. Next month, though, weather permitting, I will start my usual spring activity of picking ferns. I can't wait, as it is really good exercise, I'm out in the fresh air, and my wife and her sister make some good stuff from it. Plus, where I go is rather isolated (although not very far from our place), and hence don't have to worry much at all about masking up, 6 feet apart, etc.

In the "near" future, I expect the way it will go will be as follows:

1. Not sure how soon, but my wife and I will get a Moderna booster shot, which will be (I believe) to combat all these new strains that have been arising (or at least as many as possible).

2. After that, a COVID-19 vaccine will most likely be a yearly event (like getting a flu shot), and whichever one we get, it should be for combatting all "strains" of COVID-19, ie, like the Flu shot. I am just making an assumption that will be the case, but it seems reasonable. If and when Pfizer and Moderna get to that point, I don't know if it will still require 2 doses, or maybe just one.

On that last point, about 12 or so years ago, my wife and I got the Shingles Vaccine, and at that time, it was only one dose. However, in recent years, apparently a more effective Shingles Vaccine was developed, and it required 2 doses within 2 to 6 months of each other. My wife and I got them in November 2019 and March 2020.

Last edited by MartyByrde; 03/06/21 11:44 PM.
Re: Coronavirus information: assorted web links
alternaut #58459 03/29/21 03:02 PM
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A study is being done to determine if mixing vaccines would be a safe way to ensure future supplies. However, there may also be an important second benefit: ".... using alternating vaccines between an individual's two doses could actually produce better overall protection against emerging variants of the virus."


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Re: Coronavirus information: assorted web links
ryck #58460 03/29/21 03:10 PM
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An interesting theory that will need to be carefully evaluated under controlled conditions to either prove or disprove....the fact that we are all depending on the results of the original clinical trials, conducted with very narrow constraints, leads one to hope that this expanded testing will provide the data required to open up our vaccination efforts with more flexible guidelines.


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Re: Coronavirus information: assorted web links
alternaut #59551 09/27/21 05:42 PM
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Here's an interesting vaccine breakthrough....vaccine patches.


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Re: Coronavirus information: assorted web links
ryck #59552 09/27/21 05:59 PM
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Can't beat Salad Dressing!


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Re: Coronavirus information: assorted web links
artie505 #59553 09/27/21 09:35 PM
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Originally Posted by artie505
Can't beat Salad Dressing!

Hey, if it works it would beat an injection every time in my opinion. The fact a nut like Flynn gets this much press coverage is bad enough, but it is tragic how many apparently sane people get taken in by his wild allegations. Even when as in the Arizona ballot test, even those who dearly want to find even the most minute evidence of fraud, could find no shred of evidence.



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Re: Coronavirus information: assorted web links
artie505 #59554 09/27/21 09:57 PM
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Originally Posted by artie505
Can't beat Salad Dressing!
Hahaha...and, staying on the food theme, it's obvious that Flynn is either a fruitcake or a banana.


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Re: Coronavirus information: assorted web links
alternaut #59609 10/08/21 02:21 PM
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The Colorado hospital system says it will deny transplants to the unvaccinated in 'almost all situations'. Good…..and even better that other hospital jurisdictions are moving the same direction. We can only hope that the concept evolves into policies that would have unvaccinated Covid victims actually booted out of beds that are needed by those with critical “not self-inflicted” needs, thereby allowing those people, including children, to get their life-saving operations.

Last edited by ryck; 10/08/21 02:31 PM.

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Re: Coronavirus information: assorted web links
ryck #59612 10/08/21 06:30 PM
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What's more important qua desired is that those jurisdictions which are experiencing high numbers of the unvaccinated winding up in hospitals (especially ICUs) and subsequently dying (thereby thinning the herd) are decreasing the SQ (stupid quotient) and thereby increasing the IQ of the affected population. Eugenics lives!
But if you don't like that (accurate) depiction of the situation, you can revert to Darwin's "survival of the fittest" — all of the unvaccinated dead and dying from COVID-19 are ipso facto awarded the Darwin Award. Mazel tov!

Re: Coronavirus information: assorted web links
grelber #59617 10/09/21 12:55 AM
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Originally Posted by grelber
What's more important qua desired is that those jurisdictions which are experiencing high numbers of the unvaccinated winding up in hospitals (especially ICUs) and subsequently dying (thereby thinning the herd) are decreasing the SQ (stupid quotient).....
The problem is that they can take several weeks to die. And, while they are in hospital, occupying ICU beds, others are unable to get critical life-saving surgeries and they die.

Last edited by ryck; 10/09/21 12:56 AM.

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Re: Coronavirus information: assorted web links
alternaut #59636 10/14/21 02:50 PM
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It's very clear from the quotes that the young school kids are vastly smarter than the morons with the placards.


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Re: Coronavirus information: assorted web links
ryck #59648 10/18/21 11:22 AM
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Proof that Einstein was right about human stupidity being infinite: Threats, Resignations and 100 New Laws: Why Public Health Is in Crisis


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