An open community 
of Macintosh users,
for Macintosh users.

FineTunedMac Dashboard widget now available! Download Here

Topic Options
#5263 - 10/23/09 10:43 PM Unable to log in on a user... promptly logs out.
JustAnnuthaDewd Offline


Registered: 09/06/09
Loc: Wilmington, NC
Howdy all. I'm experiencing a rather bizarre problem with my wife's user account on our Mac Pro. We're running 10.6.1, have been on Snow Leopard since the day it was released (ditto for the .1 update) and have had no problems with her logging in until today. When I select her user account (either from log in screen or as fast-user switch) and enter the password, the computer goes to a blue screen and acts as if it is logging her in, but then I am dropped back to the log in window. There is no chance the password is wrong. In fact, I have tried resetting it and have gotten as far as a keychain message after doing so advising that the password has changed. But following through on updating the password for keychain results in the log out and stay-out problem.

I found a thread on Apple's board in which some people were having the identical problem immediately after installing Snow Leopard, and the solution has been to delete com.apple.security.plist from the user library/preferences. I tried that and it had no effect. I've also tried the radical step of deleting her user Library folder (after backing it up, of course) and letting the system rebuild a virgin, presumably trouble-free copy. That tactic has worked out well in the past for obscure user-related issues. It had NO effect this time.

I've also tried repairing permissions, while booted from the hard drive and booted from the install DVD. No luck. Tried various utilities using Onyx... no luck. So now I am stumped. Utterly stumped. Any ideas, short of whacking her account and re-creating it?

I should mention I'm having no issues on my user account or either of the others I have on here.

Top
#5264 - 10/23/09 11:30 PM Re: Unable to log in on a user... promptly logs ou [Re: JustAnnuthaDewd]
ganbustein Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Wow! Deleting ~wife/Library/ certainly is radical, but the fact that it doesn't work rules out a lot of possibilities.

Is her home folder where you think it is? (More generally, is there something out of the ordinary about her account?) Enter:

dscl . read /Users/wife

(substituting her username for wife, of course). Her home folder is the value of NFSHomeDirectory, but scan the rest of it to see if anything jumps out.

Also do a sanity check on the output of:

id wife
ls -lOe ~wife

In particular, see if she has write access to her home directory. (She clearly has read access, or the inability to unlock the keychain would have gone unnoticed.)

Can you log into her account from the command line?

su -l wife

Are there any hints in the logs? Open Console.app and see.

Top
#5276 - 10/24/09 08:05 AM Re: Unable to log in on a user... promptly logs ou [Re: ganbustein]
JustAnnuthaDewd Offline


Registered: 09/06/09
Loc: Wilmington, NC
Whacking the user Library certainly is radical, but it has proved useful a couple times in proving the problem is in there somewhere after all the usual tricks failed. I usually just restore it once "proven" and then set about narrowing down the culprit.

I tried all those terminal commands and everything seems kosher. There were some irregularities with her Library folder permission, likely from having deleted/re-copied it, but I'm confident those are corrected properly now and still no-go.

I have two log files that were generated immediately after a failed login. It's all largely Greek to me in all honesty. Do you mind looking them over? I have them posted in a MobileMe public folder. Much appreciated.
http://public.me.com/justadewd


Edited by JustAnnuthaDewd (10/24/09 08:06 AM)

Top
#5279 - 10/24/09 11:23 AM Re: Unable to log in on a user... promptly logs ou [Re: JustAnnuthaDewd]
Virtual1 Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Iowa
I would say 95% of use account related problems of that nature should be in the user's home library.

That being said, one final check is to give the user a clean home folder. Easiest way to do that is to enable root and login as root. Browse to the user's home and make a subfolder "backup", and drag and drop everything else into there. Then login as that user.

If that won't let them login, then there's a file or entry somewhere in a system area relating to that user by account ID. From there, the easiest fix is to make a new user, and replace the new user's home with the broken user's home. Change ownership and call it done.
_________________________
I work for the Department of Redundancy Department

Top
#5283 - 10/24/09 11:56 AM Re: Unable to log in on a user... promptly logs ou [Re: Virtual1]
JustAnnuthaDewd Offline


Registered: 09/06/09
Loc: Wilmington, NC
I tried moving everything in my wife's home folder into a backup folder from root and then logging in to my wife's account. Still no go. It looks like I'll have to go ahead and create a new account for her and migrate her stuff back over. My chief concern though is that there is something going on that will eventually have this same affect on all users, not just her. Even now, logging in to my user from the login window seems a bit on the slow side. Barring any new revelations, I think I'll be looking at a full reinstall soon. Thanks for the help.

Top
#5284 - 10/24/09 01:06 PM Re: Unable to log in on a user... promptly logs ou [Re: JustAnnuthaDewd]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
> Barring any new revelations, I think I'll be looking at a full reinstall soon.

You seem to gravitate to extreme solutions; if you really feel the need to reinstall, why don't you try Archive & Install first? (Be certain to check the "Preserve User and Network Settings" box if such is your intention and to back up any data you can't afford to lose.)

Boot from your install disc, and run Utilities>Disk Utility>"Repair Disk" before running A & I, but do not run A & I until DU has returned a clean bill-of-health; if it repairs anything, rerun it "n" times until it no longer does so. (DiskWarrior, TechTool Pro, and DriveGenius are all preferable to DU.)

An A & I is generally quick and painless, but the specifics of your installation may complicate it.

(Since you've determined that the apparent cause of your wife's login problem is not something in her user account you should be able to maintain it safely.)
_________________________
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory Of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire

Top
#5285 - 10/24/09 01:39 PM Re: Unable to log in on a user... promptly logs ou [Re: artie505]
JustAnnuthaDewd Offline


Registered: 09/06/09
Loc: Wilmington, NC
I don't feel the need to reinstall "at the moment"... but if I see further problems I'll certainly have to consider it. The problem obviously isn't rooted in my wife's account (or her folder/files anyway), so it seems reasonable to assume that whatever prompted hers to go haywire could happen again. It could also get fixed come 10.6.2 for all I know. I'm just preparing to be prepared. smile

Top
#5286 - 10/24/09 01:44 PM Re: Unable to log in on a user... promptly logs ou [Re: JustAnnuthaDewd]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Odd situation...good luck! smile
_________________________
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory Of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire

Top
#5287 - 10/24/09 01:49 PM Archive & Install [Re: artie505]
Hal Itosis Offline


Registered: 09/03/09
Loc: 10.6.8 (build 10K549)
Originally Posted By: artie505
if you really feel the need to reinstall, why don't you try Archive & Install first? (Be certain to check the "Preserve User and Network Settings" box if such is your intention and to back up any data you can't afford to lose.) )

I haven't got 10.6 yet, but -- from what i've read in various forums -- "Archive & Install" (as we used to know it) no longer exists.

Tried to search apple.com, but all i found was "How to Erase and Install" and the pdf version of the Installation and Setup Guide.

Anyway, there was quite a debate at MacNN about "Archive & Install" being removed from Snowy, but i can't seem to find it now.

Top
#5294 - 10/24/09 05:31 PM Re: Archive & Install [Re: Hal Itosis]
JustAnnuthaDewd Offline


Registered: 09/06/09
Loc: Wilmington, NC
Problem taken care of. I still have no idea what the heck was going on though. I decided to spring for Drive Genius and scan the problematic volume from an internal drive I can boot from also just for such tasks, but it found no errors of any kind. None of its other tasks helped either.

I decided to migrate my wife's account into that backup installation of OS X... worked great. Rebooted back to the main drive, deleted her account, recreated it, and re-copied a backup of her entire old Home folder contents into the newly-recreated one. Works fine now. Hopefully it stays fixed. smile

Thanks for all the input.

Top
#5297 - 10/24/09 09:40 PM Re: Archive & Install [Re: JustAnnuthaDewd]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
> Works fine now. Hopefully it stays fixed.

Let's hope! smile

Thanks for letting us know how it worked out, and please update us if anything changes.
_________________________
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory Of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire

Top
#5298 - 10/24/09 10:13 PM Re: Archive & Install [Re: Hal Itosis]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Oops! I responded to the bottom of the thread without re-reading the top. (There's something new.)

You're right; the old standby A & I is apparently gone, and with absolutely no input from Apple.

I saw a post somewhere that suggested that Apple probably considers A & I moot now that everybody's gone out and bought themselves a Time Capsule (that goes belly-up after 18 months and 17 days), and that may not be far off the mark.

Under any circumstances, though, it has now apparently become almost mandatory that you have a current backup before you update.
_________________________
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory Of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire

Top
#5310 - 10/25/09 02:46 PM Re: Archive & Install [Re: artie505]
MicroMatTech3 Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
When I first installed Snow Leopard, over an installation of Leopard, it appeared to me that what happened was an Archive and Install (preserving users and settings) followed by migration of the old user accounts to matching new user accounts. All of this is done without user invervention and without using the term “Archive and Install" or “Migration Assistant."

Some of the problems people have had with losing user data when installing Snow Leopard were caused by errors that arose when the migration tool was used during this process. Those errors are recorded in the Install Log, but without particularly useful details.
_________________________
MicroMat Inc
Makers of TechTool

Top
#5317 - 10/25/09 04:58 PM Re: Archive & Install [Re: MicroMatTech3]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
> When I first installed Snow Leopard, over an installation of Leopard, it appeared to me that what happened was an Archive and Install (preserving users and settings) followed by migration of the old user accounts to matching new user accounts. All of this is done without user invervention and without using the term “Archive and Install" or “Migration Assistant."

Thanks for that; I'll have to pay closer attention next time I play with my Snow Leopard disc. (If that's the case, though, "Upgrade Disc" is an incorrect term for our SL discs, no?)

Also, have you found an A & I option that can be used after SL is installed?
_________________________
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory Of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire

Top
#5324 - 10/25/09 08:42 PM Re: Archive & Install [Re: MicroMatTech3]
macnerd10 Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
Great to hear it from a knowledgeable person like you. I had exactly the same impression; this was not like with installing it over Tiger. I've read recently that SL installation is by default Archive and Install rather than Erase and Install with previous cats. I recall that the general contention with Leopard was to erase the previous system and do a clean install.
P.S. I guess, the "upgrade disk" idea was also changed in SL. Previous upgrades did not offer some options; looks like this is a full-fledged OS disk.


Edited by macnerd10 (10/26/09 03:34 PM)
_________________________
Alex
3.1 GHz 13" MacBook Pro 2015, 8 GB RAM, OS 10.11.2, Office 2011, TimeWarner Cable
2.8 GHz Xeon Mac Pro 2010, 16 GB RAM, OS 10.11.2, Office 2011, LAN

Top
#5326 - 10/25/09 10:52 PM Re: Archive & Install [Re: macnerd10]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
> [...] looks like this is a full-fledged OS disk.

It is, because you can do an erase and install if you boot from your SL disk (rather than just double-click on the installer app to upgrade/A & I/whatever your OS).

But the fact remains that Apple has buried the A & I feature in obscurity rather than explained how it has evolved.
_________________________
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory Of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire

Top
#5329 - 10/26/09 01:29 AM Re: Archive & Install [Re: artie505]
macnerd10 Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
Why do I agree with you on all counts lately? Is it alchemist flu? grin
Good night!


Edited by macnerd10 (10/26/09 01:29 AM)
_________________________
Alex
3.1 GHz 13" MacBook Pro 2015, 8 GB RAM, OS 10.11.2, Office 2011, TimeWarner Cable
2.8 GHz Xeon Mac Pro 2010, 16 GB RAM, OS 10.11.2, Office 2011, LAN

Top
#5344 - 10/26/09 01:38 PM Re: Archive & Install [Re: artie505]
Ira L Online


Registered: 08/13/09
Loc: California
[...] But the fact remains that Apple has buried the A & I feature in obscurity rather than explained how it has evolved.


I would say that A&I is not buried, but so obvious it is easy to miss! grin

As the above poster indicates, Archive and Install is the "normal" installation option with Snow Leopard, which was not the case with Leopard. Also, since SL has the ability to download, if needed, certain drivers, etc. that might normally get lost in an Archive & Install, this version is even smoother inoperation than its predecessor.
_________________________
On a Mac since 1984.
Currently: 27" iMacs, Macbook Air, macOS 10.15.x,; iPhones, iPods and iPads galore!

Top
#5353 - 10/26/09 09:52 PM Re: Archive & Install [Re: artie505]
Hal Itosis Offline


Registered: 09/03/09
Loc: 10.6.8 (build 10K549)
Originally Posted By: artie505
Also, have you found an A & I option that can be used after SL is installed?

Sounds like a good candidate for the FTM FAQ. [hopefully written by someone who has performed same. wink ]

Clearly, the concept of a "Previous System" folder is gone now... right?  Thus, what else is different [etc.]?


Edited by Hal Itosis (10/26/09 09:59 PM)

Top
#5358 - 10/27/09 12:00 AM Re: Archive & Install [Re: Ira L]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: Ira L
[...] But the fact remains that Apple has buried the A & I feature in obscurity rather than explained how it has evolved.


I would say that A&I is not buried, but so obvious it is easy to miss! grin

As the above poster indicates, Archive and Install is the "normal" installation option with Snow Leopard, which was not the case with Leopard. Also, since SL has the ability to download, if needed, certain drivers, etc. that might normally get lost in an Archive & Install, this version is even smoother inoperation than its predecessor.

Not so fast, there, Ira...

MMT3's description of his installation

Quote:
When I first installed Snow Leopard, over an installation of Leopard, it appeared to me that what happened was an Archive and Install (preserving users and settings) followed by migration of the old user accounts to matching new user accounts. All of this is done without user invervention and without using the term “Archive and Install" or “Migration Assistant."

indicates that the SL installation process is similar too, but different from, what we've come to know as A & I, and the fact that Apple has chosen to call SL discs "Upgrade" discs further confuses the issue, as do the facts that:

1. A new-fangled A & I doesn't leave you with a "Previous System" folder.

and

2. I haven't yet found an A & I re-installation option, even when booted from my SL disc.

In my opinion, kBase docs detailing both SL's installation peculiarities and the current status of A & I are, most assuredly, seriously lacking.

> [...] SL has the ability to download, if needed, certain drivers, etc. that might normally get lost in an Archive & Install [....]

I've not run across that tid-bit before; would you please expand on it?
_________________________
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory Of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire

Top
#5364 - 10/27/09 04:20 AM Re: Archive & Install [Re: artie505]
Pendragon Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Georgetown, Texas, USA
It's my understanding that were one on 10.6.5, and reinstalled SL, only the OS would be installed and the 10.6.x updaters would not be touched.

So once SL is reinstalled, the "combo" updater would not be required.

Is that correct? If so, what if someone preferred to have 10.6.4?
_________________________
Harv
27" i7 iMac (10.13.6), iPhone Xs Max (12.1)

Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire

Top
#5365 - 10/27/09 04:27 AM Re: Archive & Install [Re: Pendragon]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
That's what was reported a while back, Harv.

The thinking at the time was that your scenario would require either an erase and install or restoration from a Time Machine or other backup.

Maybe somebody who's running 10.6.1 can do some investigating.
_________________________
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory Of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire

Top
#5387 - 10/27/09 11:01 AM Re: Archive & Install [Re: artie505]
Ira L Online


Registered: 08/13/09
Loc: California
Quote:
> Ira said:[...] SL has the ability to download, if needed, certain drivers, etc. that might normally get lost in an Archive & Install [....]

Artie said: I've not run across that tid-bit before; would you please expand on it?


I too have not run across it yet, but in my readings about SL in operation, it has been said that if a printer driver is missing, the OS will offer to download/install it if you tried to print something. Similarly, if Quicktime 7 is not installed (only QT X is installed) and a file format requires QT 7, installation will be offered. I found this last one particularly interesting, since it seemed to imply that there were sound or video formats that would not run under QT X but would under the "lesser" QT 7.

Regarding the A&I after an initial installation of SL (again I have not tried this yet), would not running the "Upgrade" disc again produce the same type of installation as the first time, namely an Archive and Install?

Since the ability to retrieve drivers, etc. is allegedly inherent to Snow Leopard, the "Previous System" folder may not be--in Apple's viewpoint--necessary; hence, it was eliminated.
_________________________
On a Mac since 1984.
Currently: 27" iMacs, Macbook Air, macOS 10.15.x,; iPhones, iPods and iPads galore!

Top
#5393 - 10/27/09 02:25 PM Re: Archive & Install [Re: Ira L]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
> I too have not run across it yet, but in my readings about SL in operation, it has been said that if a printer driver is missing, the OS will offer to download/install it if you tried to print something.

Ah... I though you meant it was install disc functionality; I remember seeing that somewhere.

And as for QuickTime, I never even launch it, so although I've read about what you've described I didn't try to fully digest what I was reading.

> Regarding the A&I after an initial installation of SL (again I have not tried this yet), would not running the "Upgrade" disc again produce the same type of installation as the first time, namely an Archive and Install?

I guess it would; perhaps that's what's meant by A & I with no ability to go backwards.

> Since the ability to retrieve drivers, etc. is allegedly inherent to Snow Leopard, the "Previous System" folder may not be--in Apple's viewpoint--necessary; hence, it was eliminated.

Well... A "Previous System" folder contains lots more that one might want to reinstall after an A & I than just drivers, etc; a coupl'a kBase docs really are in order.

Thanks for your insights. smile
_________________________
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory Of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire

Top

Moderator:  alternaut, dkmarsh, joemikeb