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#53274 - 01/06/20 10:10 AM Re: unexpected kernel panics [Re: jchuzi]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Didn't they just sell you that dock with NO caveats?
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#53275 - 01/06/20 11:02 AM Re: unexpected kernel panics [Re: artie505]
jchuzi Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: New York State
No, I purchased a USB-only dock that was considerably less expensive. It was defective and the replacement has just been shipped. Currently, I have the original Thunderbolt 2/USB 3 dock connected, with two clones, but not powered on. I have been reluctant (understandably) to deal with more kernel panics but I suspect that USB is not susceptible. At any rate, I will ask OWC about their experience and post back when I receive a reply.
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macOS 10.15.6, iMac Retina 5K 27-inch, late 2014, 3.5 GHz Intel Core i5, 1 TB fusion drive, 16 GB RAM, Epson SureColor P600, Photoshop CC, Lightroom CC, MS Office 365

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#53276 - 01/06/20 11:20 AM Re: unexpected kernel panics [Re: jchuzi]
joemikeb Offline

Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas
Originally Posted By: OWC
Thank you for choosing OWC for your technical needs. There is, at present, a known issue with external Thunderbolt drives/enclosures/drive docks, and 10.15 Catalina, not just for our items, but all external solutions. We're working with Apple to get this resolved but presently, there is no firmware update, or fix, available for this, my apologies.

Interesting information.

FOR WHAT IT IS WORTH:
Among the collection of external HDs and SSDs I have an OWC Aura TB3 SSD connected to one of the TB3 ports on my Mac mini that kept inexplicably dismounting, usually when the computer was not in use. An OWC tech recommended resetting the PRAM and disabling "put hard disk to sleep" as but it still dismounted although perhaps the interval between dismounts was longer (the dismounts were so irregular it was difficult to tell).

In an effort to clean up the jungle of cords on the back of my desk I decided to re-configure all of my externally connected devices and found I could eliminate a 12 port OWC TB3 Dock several other devices were connected to. That was three days ago and so far the Aura drive has not "unexpectedly disconnected". 🀞The Aura drive is brilliantly fast β€” nearly as fast as the internal SSD β€” but I have been reluctant to use it in production because of the unexpected disconnects. Now I am beginning to think it is actually going to be very useful. ✌️

I can't definitively determine whether or not the OWC TB3 Dock played a part in the unexpected disconnects πŸ™…β€β™‚οΈ. I am running a beta version of MacOS 10.13.3, there were too many other changes made while thinning out the wire jungle, and frankly I am not interested/curious enough to test out the theory. But I am definitely suspicious and I am reporting my experience to OWC.
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#53277 - 01/06/20 02:36 PM Re: unexpected kernel panics [Re: joemikeb]
jchuzi Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: New York State
Vis-Γ -vis the USB vs. Thunderbolt question, OWC replied:

So far, it seems to be limited to the Thunderbolt connection types. USB 3 should be fine.

It isn't just Thunderbolt, apparently, because I have on OWC Mercury Elite Pro Dual connected via Thunderbolt and have had neither disconnects nor kernel panics with it. This device is RAID capable (although I don't use it that way) and is older than the dock. In fact, I bought it at the same time that I bought my iMac, in early 2015.


Edited by jchuzi (01/06/20 02:37 PM)
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macOS 10.15.6, iMac Retina 5K 27-inch, late 2014, 3.5 GHz Intel Core i5, 1 TB fusion drive, 16 GB RAM, Epson SureColor P600, Photoshop CC, Lightroom CC, MS Office 365

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#53287 - 01/10/20 06:06 AM Re: unexpected kernel panics [Re: jchuzi]
joemikeb Offline

Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas
Originally Posted By: jchuzi
It isn't just Thunderbolt, apparently, because I have on OWC Mercury Elite Pro Dual connected via Thunderbolt and have had neither disconnects nor kernel panics with it. This device is RAID capable (although I don't use it that way) and is older than the dock. In fact, I bought it at the same time that I bought my iMac, in early 2015.

I have a USB 3.2 Gen 2 Type C SSD that is 100% stable and reliable, but removing the TB3 Dock did not solved my problem of the disconnecting TB3 SSD. However, I may have finally arrived on a solution to the disconnects by preventing the computer from sleeping. It has now gone 48 hours without the drive disconnecting. 🀞
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#53296 - 01/14/20 09:15 AM Re: unexpected kernel panics [Re: joemikeb]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: joemikeb
By-the-way I cloned my boot volume using TTS without a hitch.

My inability to do so turned out to be a bug in TTS.

Originally Posted By: Marcel Bresink
When copying a volume group, there can indeed be a "misunderstanding" between TinkerTool System 6 and macOS if the volume group comes from an APFS container that holds more than one group. In this particular case, macOS cannot clearly identify which of the groups to copy.

Originally Posted By: joemikeb
Of course I then had to rename the cloned drive so I could tell them apart.

How did you determine which volume was your clone? Neither QuickBoot nor an option boot gave me any indication of which of my identically named volumes was which. (I'm going to submit a feature request.)
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The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory Of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire

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#53298 - 01/14/20 10:27 AM Re: unexpected kernel panics [Re: artie505]
jchuzi Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: New York State
Before I clone, I switch to a another desktop picture, so that my internal drive and my clones have different ones. After cloning, I switch back to the original. That way, I can tell which drive I am booted from.
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macOS 10.15.6, iMac Retina 5K 27-inch, late 2014, 3.5 GHz Intel Core i5, 1 TB fusion drive, 16 GB RAM, Epson SureColor P600, Photoshop CC, Lightroom CC, MS Office 365

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#53299 - 01/14/20 12:46 PM Re: unexpected kernel panics [Re: artie505]
joemikeb Offline

Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas
Originally Posted By: artie505
Originally Posted By: joemikeb
Of course I then had to rename the cloned drive so I could tell them apart.

How did you determine which volume was your clone? Neither QuickBoot nor an option boot gave me any indication of which of my identically named volumes was which. (I'm going to submit a feature request.)

I cheated grin

My Source and Target drives were not exactly the same size so it was easy to tell which was which and rename the Clone.

TIPS:
  • After cloning I rename the cloned volume
  • and for quick visual identification give each volume a unique icon.
  • OWC provides a number of custom drive icons that match the physical enclosure.
  • System Preferences > Startup Disk tells which drive you are booted from in case you are ever unsure.
NOTE: In Catalina (MacOS 10.15.3 beta) you can only change the name and/or icon of the current boot drive β€” or at least I could never get it to work otherwise.


Edited by joemikeb (01/14/20 02:31 PM)
Edit Reason: Add TIPS & NOTE
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#53300 - 01/14/20 11:56 PM Re: unexpected kernel panics [Re: jchuzi]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: jchuzi
Before I clone, I switch to a another desktop picture, so that my internal drive and my clones have different ones. After cloning, I switch back to the original. That way, I can tell which drive I am booted from.

Or I could have put an extraneous folder on my desktop, or I could simply have gone into Finder and changed the volume name. blush
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The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory Of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire

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#53301 - 01/15/20 01:29 AM Re: unexpected kernel panics [Re: joemikeb]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: joemikeb
After cloning I rename the cloned volume

Isn't that contradicted by
Originally Posted By: joemikeb
NOTE: In Catalina (MacOS 10.15.3 beta) you can only change the name and/or icon of the current boot drive β€” or at least I could never get it to work otherwise.
or do you mean you renamed your source, NOT your destination.

Also, I just cloned "CCC" from a different container to the container into which I was booted, and I was able to change its name, albeit only that of the system volume, and the set remained bootable.

Originally Posted By: joemikeb
System Preferences > Startup Disk tells which drive you are booted from in case you are ever unsure.

But if you've got two volumes with the same name, it doesn't differentiate between them.

The most annoying thing is that an option-boot sometimes shows both volumes of a volume group, and if you select the wrong one, you get a new and improved forbidden sign and must do a hard shutdown to get back into business.
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The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory Of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire

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#53302 - 01/15/20 08:26 AM Re: unexpected kernel panics [Re: artie505]
Virtual1 Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Iowa
When you erased the volume to clone to it (or when your cloning app did), it changed the volume's GUID, which severed it from the preboot volume on that drive. You have to fix the preboot folder name, and then will probably also need to run the preboot update command as I described earlier.
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#53303 - 01/15/20 09:16 AM Re: unexpected kernel panics [Re: Virtual1]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
I'm not sure precisely what you're referring to, but I don't think your response is applicable.

As I"ve confirmed via MANY successful cloning operations with Carbon Copy Cloner and TinkerTool System, the cloning apps take care of all the behind-the-scenes work.

As noted by Marcel Bresink, my failed TinkerTool System clones resulted from the bug.
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The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory Of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire

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#53304 - 01/15/20 10:19 AM Re: unexpected kernel panics [Re: artie505]
joemikeb Offline

Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas
Originally Posted By: artie505
Originally Posted By: joemikeb
After cloning I rename the cloned volume

Isn't that contradicted by
Originally Posted By: joemikeb
NOTE: In Catalina (MacOS 10.15.3 beta) you can only change the name and/or icon of the current boot drive β€” or at least I could never get it to work otherwise.
or do you mean you renamed your source, NOT your destination.

I reboot from the cloned volume to verify that it works correctly and as a part of that exercise change the icon and volume name. NOTE: You can change the volume name of a boot volume while booted from from another boot volume but you cannot change the icon.

Originally Posted By: virtual1
When you erased the volume to clone to it (or when your cloning app did), it changed the volume's GUID, which severed it from the preboot volume on that drive. You have to fix the preboot folder name, and then will probably also need to run the preboot update command as I described earlier.

Apparently changing the group volume name takes care of all of that and the preboot volume remains connected.

Originally Posted By: artie505
Also, I just cloned "CCC" from a different container to the container into which I was booted, and I was able to change its name, albeit only that of the system volume, and the set remained bootable.

Which would appear to confirm my experience

Originally Posted By: artie505
Originally Posted By: joemikeb
System Preferences > Startup Disk tells which drive you are booted from in case you are ever unsure.

But if you've got two volumes with the same name, it doesn't differentiate between them.

The most annoying thing is that an option-boot sometimes shows both volumes of a volume group, and if you select the wrong one, you get a new and improved forbidden sign and must do a hard shutdown to get back into business.

That is why I change the startup volume in System Preferences rather than using an Option Boot.

ADDENDUM I just installed MaxOS 10.15.3 (19D62e) this morning and CCC Version 5.1.15-b2 (5899) I haven't had time to see if that changes anything we are discussing.
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