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Epson Printers - Non Epson Inks
#53119 12/17/19 02:07 PM
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ryck Online OP
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My Canon Pixma is acting a bit crazy and I am working to fix it but, just in case, I've been looking at printers. I have been interested in Epson as they say that all of their printers will be 64 bit, which would resolve another issue.

At one review site a fellow said that he could not get a firmware upgrade from Epson and that they said it was because their "Epson Inks Only" policy allows them to discontinue servicing people who break that rule.

I thought: "Wow. So how did they know?" Does the above sound plausible?


ryck

"What Were Once Vices Are Now Habits" The Doobie Brothers

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Re: Epson Printers - Non Epson Inks
ryck #53122 12/17/19 05:20 PM
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I don't see how Epson would ever know if you used non-Epson inks. I don't know about their service policy, but it's possible that that information is accurate.


Jon

macOS 11.7.10, iMac Retina 5K 27-inch, late 2014, 3.5 GHz Intel Core i5, 1 TB fusion drive, 16 GB RAM, Epson SureColor P600, Photoshop CC, Lightroom CC, MS Office 365
Re: Epson Printers - Non Epson Inks
jchuzi #53123 12/17/19 05:42 PM
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A sensor in the cartridge?

Under any circumstances, such a policy sounds very much like restraint of trade.


The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire
Re: Epson Printers - Non Epson Inks
ryck #53124 12/17/19 06:22 PM
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The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire
Re: Epson Printers - Non Epson Inks
ryck #53125 12/17/19 06:30 PM
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Yes, Epson inks have a chip in each cartridge. I have used Epson printers for decades and find them trouble free until they stop working or a part breaks. This is not a frequent occurrence and over the decades 3 of my 4 Epson printers are still functioning. They are easy to set up and the wireless printing is very straightforward. They also continue to function with every MacOS upgrade that I do.

The thing about Epson inks is that they are very good quality and most importantly, directly out of the printer they do not smear on the page. An Epson printer representative at a MacWorld Expo told me Epson is not in the printer business, they are in the ink business. Even so, they do manufacture a lot of different printers. smirk


On a Mac since 1984.
Currently: 24" M1 iMac, M2 Pro Mac mini with 27" BenQ monitor, M2 Macbook Air, MacOS 14.x; iPhones, iPods (yes, still) and iPads.
Re: Epson Printers - Non Epson Inks
Ira L #53126 12/17/19 06:34 PM
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tacit once posted that printer ink is the most expensive liquid on the planet, and I've never doubted him.

The machines are just a come-on for the ink.



The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire
Re: Epson Printers - Non Epson Inks
artie505 #53127 12/17/19 08:37 PM
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Originally Posted By: artie505
The machines are just a come-on for the ink.

Which is why printers are so cheap and often sold at or below cost. The manufacturers have to have some incentive to keep building the printers. If you think about it this is simply a variation on software subscriptions.


If we knew what it was we were doing, it wouldn't be called research, would it?

— Albert Einstein
Re: Epson Printers - Non Epson Inks
jchuzi #53133 12/18/19 01:03 PM
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Originally Posted By: jchuzi
I don't see how Epson would ever know if you used non-Epson inks. I don't know about their service policy, but it's possible that that information is accurate.

I can fully understand a policy that says: “If you don’t use our ink cartridges, your Warranty is void”, and I’m okay with that. However, the fellow at the review site said that Epson went further and refused a firmware upgrade, which meant his printer no longer worked with his computer.

If that’s correct it is, in my humble opinion, a step too far. Saying “If your printer breaks, you’re on your own to get it fixed” is one thing. Saying: “If you don’t use our ink, we’ll make sure your printer stops working” is quite another.

It makes me think that this statement has merit.

Originally Posted By: artie505
Under any circumstances, such a policy sounds very much like restraint of trade.


ryck

"What Were Once Vices Are Now Habits" The Doobie Brothers

iMac (Retina 5K, 27", 2020), 3.8 GHz 8 Core Intel Core i7, 8GB RAM, 2667 MHz DDR4
OS Ventura 13.6.3
Canon Pixma TR 8520 Printer
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Re: Epson Printers - Non Epson Inks
artie505 #53134 12/18/19 01:15 PM
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Originally Posted By: artie505

I wonder why that would be necessary. My old Canon, now on its way to printer Heaven, always accepted clone cartridges that came with their own chips. Periodically I would, on advice provided by joemike, pop in a full set of Canon manufactured cartridges to correct minor issues. Don’t ask me why it worked, it just did.


ryck

"What Were Once Vices Are Now Habits" The Doobie Brothers

iMac (Retina 5K, 27", 2020), 3.8 GHz 8 Core Intel Core i7, 8GB RAM, 2667 MHz DDR4
OS Ventura 13.6.3
Canon Pixma TR 8520 Printer
Epson Perfection V500 Photo Scanner c/w VueScan software
TM on 1TB LaCie USB-C
Re: Epson Printers - Non Epson Inks
Ira L #53135 12/18/19 01:23 PM
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Originally Posted By: Ira L
An Epson printer representative at a MacWorld Expo told me Epson is not in the printer business, they are in the ink business. Even so, they do manufacture a lot of different printers. smirk

Originally Posted By: artie505
The machines are just a come-on for the ink.

I’m guessing the printer manufacturers looked at people like Gillette and Wilkinson for the business model. These companies always provide sturdy razors that will last a long time because they know the real money is in selling the blades forever.

Last edited by ryck; 12/18/19 01:24 PM.

ryck

"What Were Once Vices Are Now Habits" The Doobie Brothers

iMac (Retina 5K, 27", 2020), 3.8 GHz 8 Core Intel Core i7, 8GB RAM, 2667 MHz DDR4
OS Ventura 13.6.3
Canon Pixma TR 8520 Printer
Epson Perfection V500 Photo Scanner c/w VueScan software
TM on 1TB LaCie USB-C
Re: Epson Printers - Non Epson Inks
artie505 #53136 12/18/19 01:35 PM
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Originally Posted By: artie505
tacit once posted that printer ink is the most expensive liquid on the planet, and I've never doubted him.

Or "one of" given the exorbitant prices per ounce for some of the big name perfumes.

I've learned something interesting in my search for a new printer. There is a clear effort to maintain the high ink profits even when one might think that volume should get a discount. Some of the printers, with separate cartridges per colour, offer "XL" versions of the cartridges.

However, when I did the math, the printing cost per sheet between a regular sized cartridge and a larger one, was miniscule.

Last edited by ryck; 12/18/19 01:40 PM.

ryck

"What Were Once Vices Are Now Habits" The Doobie Brothers

iMac (Retina 5K, 27", 2020), 3.8 GHz 8 Core Intel Core i7, 8GB RAM, 2667 MHz DDR4
OS Ventura 13.6.3
Canon Pixma TR 8520 Printer
Epson Perfection V500 Photo Scanner c/w VueScan software
TM on 1TB LaCie USB-C
Re: Epson Printers - Non Epson Inks
ryck #53137 12/18/19 01:41 PM
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Just an observation for what it is worth. I have a Canon Pixma that I really liked until I decided Canon's ink prices were too high so I began experimenting with different highly rated, third party Canon compatible ink cartridges. The printer quickly became flakey and unreliable, after trying several different low cost brands I finally switched back to Canon cartridges and once again my Pixma prints beautifully and is completely reliable.

I don't think there is any chip or device in the Canon cartridges, rather the Canon cartridges are tuned to the printer and superior quality. I only tried three different brands and there may be a satisfactory alternative out there I haven't tried, but I was spending too much money on ink cartridges that I was ending up throwing away.


If we knew what it was we were doing, it wouldn't be called research, would it?

— Albert Einstein
Re: Epson Printers - Non Epson Inks
artie505 #53146 12/18/19 09:16 PM
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there's a VERY GOOD REASON all the major printer manufacturers are giving you a little credit for turning in your empty ink carts. Not only does this make them look like they're giving you a deal, but it also helps keep their "patented" cartridge identifying chips off the used/refilled cartridge market.

(they can't claim "patent infringement" if you're reselling carts with genuine identifier chips in them!)


I work for the Department of Redundancy Department
Re: Epson Printers - Non Epson Inks
joemikeb #53158 12/19/19 05:14 PM
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Originally Posted By: joemikeb
.... I began experimenting with different highly rated, third party Canon compatible ink cartridges. The printer quickly became flakey and unreliable, after trying several different low cost brands I finally switched back to Canon cartridges and once again my Pixma prints beautifully and is completely reliable.

As mentioned earlier I have flipped back to Canon cartridges in order to resolve oddball issues, and it has worked. This time around I have done a few things like cleaning the printhead but shied away from a full set of Canon cartridges.

The rationale was simple, the set of cartridges would cost almost as much as new printer and so, since I will in future need a new printer anyway (32 bit versus 64 bit issue), why bother? Just go to the new printer now.

I had been looking at some Epsons that were interesting until I saw the post from the person who was refused a firmware update, allegedly because Epson objected to the compatible cartridges, so I'm looking elsewhere. It's still not clear to me if it's plausible that Epson could actually know....but, why take a chance?



ryck

"What Were Once Vices Are Now Habits" The Doobie Brothers

iMac (Retina 5K, 27", 2020), 3.8 GHz 8 Core Intel Core i7, 8GB RAM, 2667 MHz DDR4
OS Ventura 13.6.3
Canon Pixma TR 8520 Printer
Epson Perfection V500 Photo Scanner c/w VueScan software
TM on 1TB LaCie USB-C
Re: Epson Printers - Non Epson Inks
ryck #53160 12/19/19 08:19 PM
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FWIW, I have only used Epson printers and have been completely satisfied. My SC P600 produces superb photo prints, which is why I bought it. I use only Epson inks because I have been totally happy with them. The one time that I received a defective cartridge, Epson immediately shipped a replacement at no charge.

The bottom line, for me, is that you get what you pay for.


Jon

macOS 11.7.10, iMac Retina 5K 27-inch, late 2014, 3.5 GHz Intel Core i5, 1 TB fusion drive, 16 GB RAM, Epson SureColor P600, Photoshop CC, Lightroom CC, MS Office 365
Re: Epson Printers - Non Epson Inks
jchuzi #53161 12/19/19 09:12 PM
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Originally Posted By: jchuzi
The bottom line, for me, is that you get what you pay for.

👍 Absolutely!


If we knew what it was we were doing, it wouldn't be called research, would it?

— Albert Einstein
Re: Epson Printers - Non Epson Inks
jchuzi #53174 12/20/19 06:38 PM
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Originally Posted By: jchuzi
The bottom line, for me, is that you get what you pay for.

I'm pretty sure that point would be argued by the people who bought Volkswagen Diesels...or any number of other major brand products that proved faulty.

Where inks are concerned, you, being a photographer who prints, have a much greater need for high quality than I. For me, reasonably good is just fine.

Last edited by ryck; 12/20/19 06:38 PM.

ryck

"What Were Once Vices Are Now Habits" The Doobie Brothers

iMac (Retina 5K, 27", 2020), 3.8 GHz 8 Core Intel Core i7, 8GB RAM, 2667 MHz DDR4
OS Ventura 13.6.3
Canon Pixma TR 8520 Printer
Epson Perfection V500 Photo Scanner c/w VueScan software
TM on 1TB LaCie USB-C
Re: Epson Printers - Non Epson Inks
ryck #53175 12/20/19 06:44 PM
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Originally Posted By: ryck
Originally Posted By: jchuzi
The bottom line, for me, is that you get what you pay for.

I'm pretty sure that point would be argued by the people who bought Volkswagen Diesels...or any number of other major brand products that proved faulty.

You forgot to mention all the garbage out there that commands astronomical prices simply because it's got some person or company's name attached to it.


The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire
Re: Epson Printers - Non Epson Inks
jchuzi #53204 12/24/19 01:23 AM
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ryck Online OP
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Originally Posted By: jchuzi
I don't see how Epson would ever know if you used non-Epson inks. I don't know about their service policy, but it's possible that that information is accurate.

Hmmmm....maybe it's no more mysterious than reading the small print. I'm just setting up a new Canon and, in the section where you can agree or not to send information to Canon, it has this line about what is sent: "Usage history such as the type of ink installed, ink usage information, the number of sheets printed, scanning frequency, and maintenance information, etc."

Because the premise is product improvement, I'm guessing most people think "well, sure" and click without reading. I'm also guessing Epson has similar language. Ergo: the fellow I first mentioned who had his service stopped.


Last edited by ryck; 12/24/19 11:56 AM.

ryck

"What Were Once Vices Are Now Habits" The Doobie Brothers

iMac (Retina 5K, 27", 2020), 3.8 GHz 8 Core Intel Core i7, 8GB RAM, 2667 MHz DDR4
OS Ventura 13.6.3
Canon Pixma TR 8520 Printer
Epson Perfection V500 Photo Scanner c/w VueScan software
TM on 1TB LaCie USB-C

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