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#52811 - 11/03/19 04:32 PM Catalina, 32 bits, APFS and DiskWarrior
andycap Online


Registered: 09/05/09
Loc: Hobart, Tasmania
This post is really just musing but I would welcome any thoughts.

In preparation for upgrading to Catalina I have identified 80 or so 32 bit apps and associated files on my Mojave run late 2013 iMac (17 of these are actually Apple associated). Most are old, redundant or I no longer need (like anything to do with Adobe or Microsoft) and can be tossed without a qualm. Or at least I think so. I can find suitable free or paid 64 bit replacements for the rest but one in particular, Disk Warrior, has me scratching my head in frustration.

I have the current version of DW (5.2) and, while it is 64 bit, it cannot at the moment repair my Mojave converted APFS volume. Previously I had used it for years to clean things up before cloning to a backup drive (it never identified anything very serious but why would you clone a potentially dodgy drive?). Current Apple APFS documentation for developers is reportedly absent or somewhat sketchy and it may yet be some time before Alsoft (now with a fancy new website) and others can get up to speed.

Carbon Copy Cloner regularly identifies a few probably corrupt files and understandably baulks at copying them to the clone and some of these (eg a ChineseWordlistUpdate bom file) can’t be deleted. Although I don’t think it’s CCC’s prime purpose to find such files, I’m relieved that it does but I do wonder what else could be wrong that a disk health utility like DuskWarrior (ho ho, I meant disk but dusk does seem apt at this time!) would normally pick up.

So what do I do in the meantime? Patiently and perhaps naively assume things are either OK, will be fixed by moving to Catalina or are simply not serious enough to worry about? Move to an alternative utility?

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#52812 - 11/03/19 11:14 PM Re: Catalina, 32 bits, APFS and DiskWarrior [Re: andycap]
freelance Offline


Registered: 08/05/09
Loc: London, UK
If you absolutely need to run DiskWarrior on a APFS drive, the only thing you can do is use Carbon Copy Cloner to clone the drive to an external drive. Then boot from the clone and erase the internal APFS drive and clone the external drive back to it.

I don't know if you can use Disk Utility from an external drive to change the file system of the internal drive, but if you can, then you could use DiskWarrior on the interal drive, too. That's what I did on my 10.13.6 set up.

Or, wait for the next release of DiskWarrior that they say is on the way. I'm sure it will come at a cost, rather than just a free update.
_________________________
iMac (19,1, 3.1 GHz i5, 10.14.6, 40 Gb RAM) with Mac Pro (5,1, dual-2.4 GHz, 10.13.6, 24 Gb RAM) used as a server and to run 32-bit apps via Screen Sharing. MacBook Air (1.8 Ghz, 8 Gb RAM, 10.14.6, 256 Gb SSD) all patched through a Vodafone 4-port Home Hub and BT Wi-Fi Extender.

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#52813 - 11/04/19 01:45 AM Re: Catalina, 32 bits, APFS and DiskWarrior [Re: freelance]
jchuzi Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: New York State
I have corresponded with Alsoft occasionally about DW and keep getting the runaround about the upgrade to the next version. This has been going on since Mojave was released. At this point, I seriously wonder if DW will ever be upgraded.
_________________________
Jon

OS 10.14.6, iMac Retina 5K 27-inch, late 2014, 3.5 GHz Intel Core i5, 1 TB fusion drive, 16 GB RAM, Epson SureColor P600, Photoshop CC, Lightroom CC, MS Office 365

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#52814 - 11/04/19 05:53 AM Re: Catalina, 32 bits, APFS and DiskWarrior [Re: jchuzi]
ryck Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Okanagan Valley
Originally Posted By: jchuzi
At this point, I seriously wonder if DW will ever be upgraded.

That'd be too bad. I've been using DW since Attila the Hun was in third grade and, although I haven't needed to pull it out often, DW has always done the job for me.


Edited by ryck (11/04/19 05:56 AM)
_________________________
ryck

iMac (Retina 5K, 27", 2017), 3.4 GHz Intel Core i5, 8GB RAM, 2400 MHz DDR4
OS Mojave 10.14.6
Canon MX710 Printer
Epson Perfection V500 Photo Scanner
Time Machine on 1TB LaCie USB-C
Carbon Copy Clone on 500GB OWC Mercury OTG Pro

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#52818 - 11/04/19 03:05 PM Re: Catalina, 32 bits, APFS and DiskWarrior [Re: ryck]
andycap Online


Registered: 09/05/09
Loc: Hobart, Tasmania
The point is that I don’t know whether I absolutely need to run DW on my APFS drive. Even if it choked on something it would not at the moment be able to do the necessary repairs.

While I’ve been using Macs since the LC, I’m really only computer literate enough to just observe what errors a drive utility reports and watch it fix them! I like my systems to be up to date and trouble free but am well aware that problems will inevitably occur, particularly those that may be the result of my own stupidity. That a utility with a different function (CCC) reports a few files it cannot clone for one reason or another suggests that there may be some issues that need fixing. It copies everything else OK, the clone boots and I’m glad it’s has identified a few problematic obscure files to be aware of. Let’s hope that they remain obscure…

APFS is here to stay. It’s been around for 2 years but I find it quite odd, even if its documentation has been tardy, that a utility that can monitor and fix issues on this file system is not yet out. I’m a bit reluctant to jump through the hoops that Freelance helpfully suggests (go back to HFS+?) because, while I’m not an “early adopter”, I’d prefer not to go backwards.

I too have used DW since Marco Polo was in short pants and it was an absolute delight to see it munching through fragmented files and fixing B trees all those years ago. I just wish that Alsoft would hurry up. Even if a new version comes at a cost, which it surely will, I’m pretty sure I’ll be happy to pay for it even if it means putting off an upgrade to my trusty Beamer, old enough to have a fancy cassette player in the dash…

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#52819 - 11/04/19 03:38 PM Re: Catalina, 32 bits, APFS and DiskWarrior [Re: andycap]
ryck Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Okanagan Valley
Originally Posted By: andycap
I too have used DW since Marco Polo was in short pants and it was an absolute delight to see it munching through fragmented files and fixing B trees all those years ago. I just wish that Alsoft would hurry up.

I sent a note today to Alsoft and a very pleasant lady named Amy replied with:

"Please be assured that we are working towards an updated DiskWarrior that will be compatible with APFS — this will be DiskWarrior 6. Please remember that APFS is the first file system change in 20 years. Because HFS+ and APFS are so different, it will take us some time to update the DiskWarrior application to be compatible with APFS. Both DiskWarrior and HFS+ were both released in 1998. Just think of how many OS changes Apple has made in the last 20 years.

Even though Apple has been shipping APFS since High Sierra, only partial documentation has been released to developers concerning APFS support in November 2018. Because we use a different approach to directory repair, we must have a deeper understanding of the new file system. We would need the full documentation from Apple for APFS support before DiskWarrior 6 can be released.

This information can be found on our website."


Personally, I too am looking forward to DiskWarrior 6.


Edited by ryck (11/04/19 03:43 PM)
_________________________
ryck

iMac (Retina 5K, 27", 2017), 3.4 GHz Intel Core i5, 8GB RAM, 2400 MHz DDR4
OS Mojave 10.14.6
Canon MX710 Printer
Epson Perfection V500 Photo Scanner
Time Machine on 1TB LaCie USB-C
Carbon Copy Clone on 500GB OWC Mercury OTG Pro

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#52821 - 11/05/19 08:20 AM Re: Catalina, 32 bits, APFS and DiskWarrior [Re: ryck]
Ira L Online


Registered: 08/13/09
Loc: California
Thanks for sharing this info from Alsoft. It adds some clarity to the next release of Disk Warrior. Not so much a "when" as a "how come". smirk
_________________________
On a Mac since 1984.
Currently: 27" iMacs, Macbook Air, macOS 10.14.x,; iPhones, iPods and iPads galore!

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#52822 - 11/06/19 01:56 AM Re: Catalina, 32 bits, APFS and DiskWarrior [Re: freelance]
freelance Offline


Registered: 08/05/09
Loc: London, UK
Originally Posted By: freelance
I don't know if you can use Disk Utility from an external drive to change the file system of the internal drive, but if you can, then you could use DiskWarrior on the interal drive, too. That's what I did on my 10.13.6 set up.

I just tried to reformat the internal SSD on my 2019 iMac running Mojave. Disk Utility would not allow anything other than APFS, so we'll just have to wait for DiskWarrior to catch up.
_________________________
iMac (19,1, 3.1 GHz i5, 10.14.6, 40 Gb RAM) with Mac Pro (5,1, dual-2.4 GHz, 10.13.6, 24 Gb RAM) used as a server and to run 32-bit apps via Screen Sharing. MacBook Air (1.8 Ghz, 8 Gb RAM, 10.14.6, 256 Gb SSD) all patched through a Vodafone 4-port Home Hub and BT Wi-Fi Extender.

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#52825 - 11/06/19 08:01 AM Re: Catalina, 32 bits, APFS and DiskWarrior [Re: Ira L]
ryck Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Okanagan Valley
Originally Posted By: ryck
Even though Apple has been shipping APFS since High Sierra, only partial documentation has been released to developers concerning APFS support in November 2018. Because we use a different approach to directory repair, we must have a deeper understanding of the new file system. We would need the full documentation from Apple for APFS support before DiskWarrior 6 can be released.

Originally Posted By: Ira L
Thanks for sharing this info from Alsoft. It adds some clarity to the next release of Disk Warrior. Not so much a "when" as a "how come". smirk

True enough, but another “how come?” question would be: “How come Apple doesn’t provide all the documentation that AlSoft needs?” That company has been providing high quality Mac software for many years… definitely not a johnny-come-lately…. and so, it seems to me, Apple should be more cooperative.


Edited by ryck (11/06/19 08:03 AM)
_________________________
ryck

iMac (Retina 5K, 27", 2017), 3.4 GHz Intel Core i5, 8GB RAM, 2400 MHz DDR4
OS Mojave 10.14.6
Canon MX710 Printer
Epson Perfection V500 Photo Scanner
Time Machine on 1TB LaCie USB-C
Carbon Copy Clone on 500GB OWC Mercury OTG Pro

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#52829 - 11/06/19 02:19 PM Re: Catalina, 32 bits, APFS and DiskWarrior [Re: ryck]
andycap Online


Registered: 09/05/09
Loc: Hobart, Tasmania
“How come Apple doesn’t provide all the documentation that AlSoft needs?”

Indeed and precisely. Or to any other developer. What passes for my brain these days is unwilling and unable to fully understand the intricacies of a modern operating system but I like to peer under the hood occasionally. I therefore class myself as an inquisitive and intelligent user but I’ve somewhat alarmingly come to accept the general idea that whatever Apple thinks is good for me is OK. This is silly but it seems to be the way it works in the Windows world.

I know that any system will inevitably go off the rails now and then and I will always need a way to get it back on track. I’ve supported Apple since System 6 days through buying an LC, a Performa (truly a boat anchor), the gooseneck thingy, half a dozen or so iMacs (some in hippie colours), printers, speakers, mice, keyboards, an iPod, an MP3 player I’ve forgotten the name of, 2 iPads, several iPhones, AppleTV, AirPods, Apple watch. Etc. The very least they could do for me is support independent, long time and respected developers with APFS documentation. Much of my career was in computer system testing and user support and to me it’s unprofessional not to make it available. Is there something they’re hiding? Have they become over obsessed with privacy and security to shield us from lack of common sense in a connected world? Incompetance? Hubris?

Oh dear this is turning into a rant. I just want a DiskWarrior that works! Soon. Oh, and to get rid of some 32 bit Adobe detritus that can't be deleted...

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