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#52334 - 08/29/19 08:09 AM Mojave OS 14.0 to ?
ryck Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Okanagan Valley
I have moved from High Sierra to Mojave with the idea that I’ll have improved security updates without breaking the 32 bit apps that I don’t wish to give up. So far, so good. At OS 14.0 pretty much everything works with the exception of the scanner on my Canon printer. However, that’s not a show stopper as there are several options available.

So, the first question for me becomes: “How much further can I go with Mojave updates before something breaks?” I’ve looked at the fixes in the various updates, listed here by Apple , and it looks to me that I don’t need to go past OS 14.4.0 to be up to date with security stuff.

If we think OS 14.4.0 will not affect my 32 bit apps, the second question is: “Should I skip everything in between and go straight to that update, or get to it an update at a time?”


Edited by ryck (08/29/19 08:13 AM)
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ryck

iMac (Retina 5K, 27", 2017), 3.4 GHz Intel Core i5, 8GB RAM, 2400 MHz DDR4
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#52335 - 08/29/19 08:57 AM Re: Mojave OS 14.0 to ? [Re: ryck]
Ira L Offline


Registered: 08/13/09
Loc: California
Mojave is now at 14.6.1 (.1 does not show in the "About…", but I think that was just released). Any 32-bit app that runs under 14.x should continue to work. Of course there can be rare (hopefully) exceptions, but if you have a clone of your last satisfactory set-up, you can always go back to that. So go for it, go all the way! laugh

After all, it's your computer, not mine. smirk
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#52337 - 08/29/19 09:07 AM Re: Mojave OS 14.0 to ? [Re: Ira L]
ryck Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Okanagan Valley
Originally Posted By: Ira L
Mojave is now at 14.6.1

I had a look at 14.6.1 and it doesn't have any further security updates. Those seem to have stopped at 14.4. so, given the only reason I went to Mojave was to keep up with security (as much as possible) and retain my 32 bit apps, I don't have a compelling reason to pass 14.4

In other threads I read about people having problems with 14.6 and I figure, if it isn't making things safer, why would I opt for gaining unwanted issues? So, it comes back to the question: "Is it better to go straight to 14.4 or do it an update at a time?"


Edited by ryck (08/29/19 09:09 AM)
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ryck

iMac (Retina 5K, 27", 2017), 3.4 GHz Intel Core i5, 8GB RAM, 2400 MHz DDR4
OS Mojave 10.14.6
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#52338 - 08/29/19 09:35 AM Re: Mojave OS 14.0 to ? [Re: ryck]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
I'd go with the 10.14.4 Combo; running four Deltas will introduce four opportunities for problems to occur rather than just the one that would come with running the Combo.
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#52346 - 08/30/19 08:52 AM Re: Mojave OS 14.0 to ? [Re: artie505]
ryck Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Okanagan Valley
Originally Posted By: artie505
I'd go with the 10.14.4 Combo...

Done. And it seems all the 32 bit apps, that worked under 14.0, are continuing to work. As well, things appear speedier. For example, the Top Sites loaded slowly on every boot with 14.0 but now just pop right in.


Edited by ryck (08/30/19 08:54 AM)
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ryck

iMac (Retina 5K, 27", 2017), 3.4 GHz Intel Core i5, 8GB RAM, 2400 MHz DDR4
OS Mojave 10.14.6
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#52348 - 08/30/19 09:04 AM Re: Mojave OS 14.0 to ? [Re: ryck]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
I'm at 10.14.6, and my 32 bit apps still work, so Apple is apparently being good on its word to leave them functional until 10.15.

By Top Sites, do you mean in Safari?

They tweaked Top Sites in Safari, and it now shows me all sorts of options that I've never before seen and still don't want to see, and more of them than my pref is set for.
_________________________
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

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#52350 - 08/30/19 11:39 AM Re: Mojave OS 14.0 to ? [Re: artie505]
ryck Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Okanagan Valley
Originally Posted By: artie505
By Top Sites, do you mean in Safari?

Yes. And by slow, I mean really slow....popping in one at a time. Mail is still not quick to load, as it was in 13.8.6 - but I think that's an issue which is with the app, not the OS.


Edited by ryck (08/30/19 12:45 PM)
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ryck

iMac (Retina 5K, 27", 2017), 3.4 GHz Intel Core i5, 8GB RAM, 2400 MHz DDR4
OS Mojave 10.14.6
Canon MX710 Printer
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#52351 - 08/30/19 03:39 PM Re: Mojave OS 14.0 to ? [Re: ryck]
joemikeb Online

Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas
Top Sites loads from data stored on your computer and should pop right in as your say they are in 14.4.

On the other hand if your email accounts are IMAP then they are populated from the IMAP server every time you launch Mail and load time is subject to the speed of your internet connection and the number of messages in your mailboxes, regardless of what email app your are using.
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#52353 - 08/31/19 07:28 AM Re: Mojave OS 14.0 to ? [Re: joemikeb]
ryck Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Okanagan Valley
Originally Posted By: joemikeb
Top Sites loads from data stored on your computer and should pop right in as you say they are in 14.4.

That's not happening.....they are back to popping in one or two at a time and now a couple of them (the last two) are without an image in the panes. They are blank although the names of the sites remains underneath.

Is there a way to easily refresh the Top Sites page?
_________________________
ryck

iMac (Retina 5K, 27", 2017), 3.4 GHz Intel Core i5, 8GB RAM, 2400 MHz DDR4
OS Mojave 10.14.6
Canon MX710 Printer
Epson Perfection V500 Photo Scanner
Carbon Copy Clone on 1TB LaCie USB-C
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#52354 - 08/31/19 07:38 AM Re: Mojave OS 14.0 to ? [Re: joemikeb]
ryck Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Okanagan Valley
Originally Posted By: joemikeb
if your email accounts are IMAP then they are populated from the IMAP server every time you launch Mail and load time is subject to the speed of your internet connection and the number of messages in your mailboxes, regardless of what email app your are using.

Good to know. I have been wondering about cleaning out the 'email closet' and getting rid of stuff no longer needed. Also the ISP just had a major mail failure and many people were without for 4 or 5 days...I was one. And even now the mail that should have been received during the outage is just dribbling in.

Since my Mail slowness and hiccups have been going on for a while, I wonder if they were an early indicator that something big was on the way.


Edited by ryck (08/31/19 07:39 AM)
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ryck

iMac (Retina 5K, 27", 2017), 3.4 GHz Intel Core i5, 8GB RAM, 2400 MHz DDR4
OS Mojave 10.14.6
Canon MX710 Printer
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#52355 - 08/31/19 08:11 AM Re: Mojave OS 14.0 to ? [Re: ryck]
joemikeb Online

Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas
Originally Posted By: ryck
Is there a way to easily refresh the Top Sites page?

If you have the Safari Debug Menu active there are two items you can try.
  1. Recompute Top Sites
  2. Reset Top sites
You can activate the debug menu using OnyX > Parameters > Safari


Edited by joemikeb (08/31/19 08:33 AM)
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#52356 - 08/31/19 09:08 AM Re: Mojave OS 14.0 to ? [Re: ryck]
joemikeb Online

Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas
Originally Posted By: ryck
Good to know. I have been wondering about cleaning out the 'email closet' and getting rid of stuff no longer needed. Also the ISP just had a major mail failure and many people were without for 4 or 5 days...I was one. And even now the mail that should have been received during the outage is just dribbling in.

Since my Mail slowness and hiccups have been going on for a while, I wonder if they were an early indicator that something big was on the way.

I wouldn't be surprised that the Email performance was an early indicator there was something wrong in the provider's IMAP server. I find it useful to have an alternate email account just in case my primary has problems. (FWIW my primary email provider is Apple and my secondary is my ISP (Internet Service Provider) so both are essentially free.

As far as "cleaning our email closet" that is not a bad idea. There are several options including:
  1. A thorough housecleaning and deleting messages that you are unlikely to ever want to read again. (Don't forget your Trash and Spam mailboxes — they can get huge in a hurry)
  2. Create mailboxes "On My Mac" and move archival data from your IMAP mailboxes to them. You lose the advantages of being able to access the old messages from remote locations and/or mobile devices but how often do you do that?
  3. There are specialized third party apps in the App Store you can use to archive seldom accessed messages you keep around for reference or historical purposes such as Eagle Filer and Mail Archiver X Easy that you can spool the excess off to. Unfortunately none of these are inexpensive.
  4. I print archival emails to PDF and store the resulting files in a DEVONThink 3 database which offers a particularly rich set of searching and indexing options and synchs with my iPhone and iPad, but any database would do.
The most bang for your buck is, of course option 1 and that should be the first place you start.
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#52357 - 08/31/19 09:28 AM Re: Mojave OS 14.0 to ? [Re: joemikeb]
ryck Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Okanagan Valley
Originally Posted By: joemikeb
You can activate the debug menu using OnyX > Parameters > Safari

Where should I see the Debug Menu? I'm assuming in the Menu Bar along with Develop et cetera. I tried the OnyX route both with Safari booted and with it not booted but neither seems to put the Debug menu in place. I did restarts between both attempts....and my OnyX is up to date - Version 3.6.5 (190725)
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ryck

iMac (Retina 5K, 27", 2017), 3.4 GHz Intel Core i5, 8GB RAM, 2400 MHz DDR4
OS Mojave 10.14.6
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#52358 - 08/31/19 09:42 AM Re: Mojave OS 14.0 to ? [Re: ryck]
joemikeb Online

Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas
On my system it appears in the menu bar immediately to the right of the Help menu.

NOTE: After recalculating and reseting Top Sites, the first time Top Sites loads will almost certainly take several seconds or more to load all the sites. After that top sites should load almost instantly.
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#52362 - 08/31/19 12:23 PM Re: Mojave OS 14.0 to ? [Re: joemikeb]
ryck Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Okanagan Valley
Originally Posted By: joemikeb
On my system it appears in the menu bar immediately to the right of the Help menu.

It's not appearing on my bar so I've sent a note to OnyX support.
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ryck

iMac (Retina 5K, 27", 2017), 3.4 GHz Intel Core i5, 8GB RAM, 2400 MHz DDR4
OS Mojave 10.14.6
Canon MX710 Printer
Epson Perfection V500 Photo Scanner
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#52363 - 08/31/19 12:27 PM Re: Mojave OS 14.0 to ? [Re: ryck]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
I ran
Code:
defaults write com.apple.Safari IncludeInternalDebugMenu 1
after giving Terminal full disk access in System Prefs > Security & Privacy > Privacy > Full Disk Access, and "Debug" appeared at the right end of Safari's menu bar after I quit and relaunched it.

In my instance, it was a useless exercise.
_________________________
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory Of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire

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#52384 - 09/03/19 03:59 PM Re: Mojave OS 14.0 to ? [Re: joemikeb]
ryck Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Okanagan Valley
Originally Posted By: joemikeb
If you have the Safari Debug Menu active there are two items you can try.
  1. Recompute Top Sites
  2. Reset Top sites
You can activate the debug menu using OnyX > Parameters > Safari

Originally Posted By: joemikeb
On my system it appears in the menu bar immediately to the right of the Help menu.

Originally Posted By: ryck
It's not appearing on my bar so I've sent a note to OnyX support.

Still no reply from OnyX (by using the Contact in the software), so I tried again today….but quite a different result. Clicking on Contact took me to a Titanium website where I found a new version of OnyX (3.6.7), which I downloaded and installed. I was 3.6.5

I guess Titanium has taken over OnyX. Anyway, this version allowed me to install the Debug menu in Safari…after providing all disk access. But….

….when I tied the “Recompute Top Sites” nothing happened. When I tried “Reset Top Sites”, it loaded only a couple of the Top Sites I had and a bunch for places I would never have as top sites - Google, Bing, Yahoo, and some places I’m sure I’ve never been.

Two steps forward, one step back…..sigh.


Edited by ryck (09/03/19 04:12 PM)
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ryck

iMac (Retina 5K, 27", 2017), 3.4 GHz Intel Core i5, 8GB RAM, 2400 MHz DDR4
OS Mojave 10.14.6
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#52385 - 09/03/19 04:29 PM Re: Mojave OS 14.0 to ? [Re: ryck]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: ryck
I guess Titanium has taken over OnyX. Anyway, this version allowed me to install the Debug menu in Safari…after providing all disk access. But….

….when I tied the “Recompute Top Sites” nothing happened. When I tried “Reset Top Sites”, it loaded only a couple of the Top Sites I had and a bunch for places I would never have as top sites - Google, Bing, Yahoo, and some places I’m sure I’ve never been.

Two steps forward, one step back…..sigh.

Titanium has always been the dev of OnyX.

There's now a default set of Top Sites, i.e. the ones you questioned; you should see the list in ~/Library/Safari/TopSites.plist.
_________________________
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory Of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire

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#52398 - 09/05/19 10:07 AM Re: Mojave OS 14.0 to ? [Re: artie505]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
More on that... I'm not sure what I did, but I managed to get those extraneous sites "Banned" in that plist, and they haven't reloaded after quitting Safari and even restarting.

At one point I locked the file, but it didn't seem to do any good...maybe needed a restart, but it's no longer locked, and my only Top Site is the one I want to see.

I'll bet you could edit your file to look like mine.

Code:
<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
<!DOCTYPE plist PUBLIC "-//Apple//DTD PLIST 1.0//EN" "http://www.apple.com/DTDs/PropertyList-1.0.dtd">
<plist version="1.0">
<dict>
	<key>BannedURLStrings</key>
	<array>
		<string>http://www.wikipedia.org</string>
		<string>http://www.facebook.com</string>
		<string>http://www.tripadvisor.com</string>
		<string>http://www.linkedin.com</string>
		<string>http://www.bing.com</string>
		<string>http://www.icloud.com</string>
		<string>http://www.finetunedmac.com/forums/ubbthreads.php</string>
		<string>http://www.yahoo.com</string>
		<string>http://www.google.com</string>
		<string>http://www.yelp.com</string>
		<string>http://www.twitter.com</string>
		<string>http://www.weather.com</string>
		<string>http://www.apple.com/startpage</string>
	</array>
	<key>DemoSites</key>
	<array/>
	<key>DisplayedSitesLastModified</key>
	<date>2019-09-05T17:59:46Z</date>
	<key>TopSites</key>
	<array>
		<dict>
			<key>TopSiteIsPinned</key>
			<true/>
			<key>TopSiteTitle</key>
			<string>WQXR | New York's Classical Music Radio Station</string>
			<key>TopSiteURLString</key>
			<string>https://www.wqxr.org/</string>
		</dict>
		<dict>
			<key>TopSiteIsBuiltIn</key>
			<true/>
			<key>TopSiteURLString</key>
			<string></string>
		</dict>
	</array>
</dict>
</plist>
_________________________
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory Of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire

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#52399 - 09/05/19 12:32 PM Re: Mojave OS 14.0 to ? [Re: artie505]
joemikeb Online

Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas
This goes back so many years I had almost forgotten it, but it still works:
  • To remove a site from the Top Sites hover over the unwanted site in the list until a cross and push pin icon appeared at the top left corner of the site icon then clicking on the cross. This removes the site and adds it to the banned sites list in the TopSites.plist so that it does not return.
  • Clicking the Push Pin fixes the sites position in the Top Sites list.
  • To add a site to the Top Sites, hover at the far left end of the Address and Search bar until a circled plus appears then Control + Click (Right Click) on that icon brings up a list of places to add the url. The second item on that list is Top Sites.
NOTE: Safari and Safari Technology Preview share the same Top Sites list.
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#52401 - 09/05/19 04:12 PM Re: Mojave OS 14.0 to ? [Re: joemikeb]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: joemikeb
To remove a site from the Top Sites hover over the unwanted site in the list until a cross and push pin icon appeared at the top left corner of the site icon then clicking on the cross. This removes the site and adds it to the banned sites list in the TopSites.plist so that it does not return.

Yes and no... It worked that way for me until recently, when all the sites I had previously banned reappeared and re-reappeared numerous times after I clicked on the crosses; I've got no idea what I did to get things back to normal.

More: I just d/l'ed the 10.14.6 Combo to see if it affected Safari and found that it did.


Edited by artie505 (09/06/19 03:29 AM)
Edit Reason: More
_________________________
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory Of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire

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#52402 - 09/06/19 04:16 AM Re: Mojave OS 14.0 to ? [Re: artie505]
ryck Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Okanagan Valley
Originally Posted By: artie505
More: I just d/l'ed the 10.14.6 Combo to see if it affected Safari and found that it did.

Aha!! Do you mean it affected Safari positively? If so, maybe that's also my issue. In the end I decided to go to 10.4.6 and, being at 10.4.4, I only updated from it.


Edited by ryck (09/06/19 04:19 AM)
_________________________
ryck

iMac (Retina 5K, 27", 2017), 3.4 GHz Intel Core i5, 8GB RAM, 2400 MHz DDR4
OS Mojave 10.14.6
Canon MX710 Printer
Epson Perfection V500 Photo Scanner
Carbon Copy Clone on 1TB LaCie USB-C
Carbon Copy Clone on 500GB OWC Mercury OTG Pro

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#52403 - 09/06/19 05:09 AM Re: Mojave OS 14.0 to ? [Re: artie505]
joemikeb Online

Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas
Originally Posted By: artie505
... It worked that way for me until recently, when all the sites I had previously banned reappeared and re-reappeared numerous times after I clicked on the crosses; I've got no idea what I did to get things back to normal..

All I can say is it is working for me in Catalina with both Safari and Safari Technology Preview ver 91 (Safari 13.1 webkit 15609.1.3) I wonder if there was perhaps some image to TopSites.plist that might be solved by the old trick of deleting it and allowing the app to recreate it?
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#52405 - 09/07/19 12:18 AM Re: Mojave OS 14.0 to ? [Re: ryck]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: ryck
Originally Posted By: artie505
More: I just d/l'ed the 10.14.6 Combo to see if it affected Safari and found that it did.

Aha!! Do you mean it affected Safari positively? If so, maybe that's also my issue. In the end I decided to go to 10.4.6 and, being at 10.4.4, I only updated from it.

I'm not sure what you mean by "positively."

Updating my earlier post, though, I realized that examining the 10.14.6 Combo was not the correct approach, because it didn't tell me which particular Delta of the 6 it encompasses affected Safari, so I d/l'ed the 10.14.6 Delta and found that IT, did, so it's altogether possible, if not likely, that the some aspect of it is at the root of our issue.
_________________________
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory Of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire

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#52406 - 09/07/19 12:33 AM Re: Mojave OS 14.0 to ? [Re: joemikeb]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: joemikeb
I wonder if there was perhaps some image to TopSites.plist that might be solved by the old trick of deleting it and allowing the app to recreate it?

Well, I've tried everything else I could think of, and my banned Top Sites have reverted to unbanned status under circumstances that I haven't been able to pin down after each try, so I'll try trashing the plist.
_________________________
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

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