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#52067 - 07/18/19 05:29 AM DU live verification vs. recovery mode
jchuzi Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: New York State
Is there any advantage in using Live Verification to run First Aid with Disk Utility over booting into Recovery Mode to run it?
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Jon

OS 10.14.6, iMac Retina 5K 27-inch, late 2014, 3.5 GHz Intel Core i5, 1 TB fusion drive, 16 GB RAM, Epson SureColor P600, Photoshop CC, Lightroom CC, MS Office 365

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#52069 - 07/18/19 08:01 AM Re: DU live verification vs. recovery mode [Re: jchuzi]
joemikeb Online

Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas
If there are errors you still have to boot from the Recovery Drive to make repairs and that entails repeating the verification step. So why not save time and boot from the Recovery Drive in the first place?
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joemikeb • moderator

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#52070 - 07/18/19 08:50 AM Re: DU live verification vs. recovery mode [Re: joemikeb]
jchuzi Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: New York State
When I ran Live Verification yesterday, a message appeared that any errors that were detected would be repaired, thus my question.
_________________________
Jon

OS 10.14.6, iMac Retina 5K 27-inch, late 2014, 3.5 GHz Intel Core i5, 1 TB fusion drive, 16 GB RAM, Epson SureColor P600, Photoshop CC, Lightroom CC, MS Office 365

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#52071 - 07/18/19 08:54 AM Re: DU live verification vs. recovery mode [Re: joemikeb]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: joemikeb
If there are errors you still have to boot from the Recovery Drive to make repairs and that entails repeating the verification step. So why not save time and boot from the Recovery Drive in the first place?

Because booting into Recovery takes considerably more time than live verification and is a particularly time-consuming waste if it's not necessary, which, based on the DU pop-up, it isn't.

It seems as if live verification has reached the point at which Recovery is a fallback for when you can't boot into your regular volume rather than a day to day tool, unlike in the good old days when you had to boot into an external volume to run Disk Repair,


Edited by artie505 (07/18/19 09:31 AM)
Edit Reason: More
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The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory Of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire

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#52072 - 07/19/19 06:53 AM Re: DU live verification vs. recovery mode [Re: artie505]
joemikeb Online

Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas
Originally Posted By: artie505
It seems as if live verification has reached the point at which Recovery is a fallback for when you can't boot into your regular volume rather than a day to day tool, unlike in the good old days when you had to boot into an external volume to run Disk Repair ❓,

Just like in the good old days you still cannot make repairs the boot drive and must boot into a different volume such as the Recovery Drive. (I don't believe you can make repairs to a different APFS volume on the same disk/partition either.)

The Recovery Drive is still a valuable tool for making repairs to a boot volume as well as offering several Recovery options. Booting into the Recovery Drive (Command+R) on my MBP takes less time than booting normally. The only time it takes a good while is booting from the Internet Recovery Drive (Option+Command+R)


Edited by joemikeb (07/19/19 09:26 AM)
Edit Reason: Code Correction
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joemikeb • moderator

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#52080 - 07/20/19 02:45 AM Re: DU live verification vs. recovery mode [Re: joemikeb]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: joemikeb
Originally Posted By: artie505
It seems as if live verification has reached the point at which Recovery is a fallback for when you can't boot into your regular volume rather than a day to day tool, unlike in the good old days when you had to boot into an external volume to run Disk Repair ❓,

Just like in the good old days[/] you still cannot make repairs the boot drive and must boot into a different volume such as the Recovery Drive. (I don't believe you can make repairs to a different APFS volume on the same disk/partition either.)

The Recovery Drive is still a valuable tool for making repairs to a boot volume as well as offering several [I]Recovery
options. Booting into the Recovery Drive (Command+R) on my MBP takes less time than booting normally. The only time it takes a good while is booting from the Internet Recovery Drive (Option+Command+R)

The top two screenshots show DU's reactions to my hitting "First Aid" with the boot volume (HD) and with the High Sierra volume (HDw) on my APFS formatted drive selected, so Apple is apparently telling us that there's no need to boot into Recovery to repair any disk (on an APFS formatted drive, anyhow) under ordinary circumstances. (I think the bottom image is pertinent.)

Recovery is, indeed, useful for its recovery options and if you can't boot into a regular volume, but it doesn't appear to be necessary for disk repair if you can boot your APFS formatted Mac normally. (HFS+ formatted Macs may be a different issue.)

Can you direct us to contradictory documentation?

I just tried a few command-R restarts on my Mid 2015 15" Retina MacBook Pro/2.8 GHz/16 GB RAM/macOs 10.14.5, and they averaged out at about 55 seconds to desktop, whereas a few restarts into my boot volume averaged out at about 20 seconds to desktop.
_________________________
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory Of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire

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#52082 - 07/20/19 06:14 AM Re: DU live verification vs. recovery mode [Re: artie505]
joemikeb Online

Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas
Originally Posted By: artie505
Can you direct us to contradictory documentation?

I have recently read such documentation but I don't remember where. I will see if I can dig it up, but don't hold your breath as it may take a while.
Originally Posted By: artie505

I just tried a few command-R restarts on my Mid 2015 15" Retina MacBook Pro/2.8 GHz/16 GB RAM/macOs 10.14.5, and they averaged out at about 55 seconds to desktop, whereas a few restarts into my boot volume averaged out at about 20 seconds to desktop.

On my system with a large conglomeration of external drives and volumes the normal time to boot to the desktop matches your twenty seconds, but it will take at least three minutes for everything to be up and running. The same is true in either Mojave or Catalina.
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joemikeb • moderator

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#52083 - 07/20/19 08:43 AM Re: DU live verification vs. recovery mode [Re: joemikeb]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: joemikeb
Originally Posted By: artie505
I just tried a few command-R restarts on my Mid 2015 15" Retina MacBook Pro/2.8 GHz/16 GB RAM/macOs 10.14.5, and they averaged out at about 55 seconds to desktop, whereas a few restarts into my boot volume averaged out at about 20 seconds to desktop.

On my system with a large conglomeration of external drives and volumes the normal time to boot to the desktop matches your twenty seconds, but it will take at least three minutes for everything to be up and running. The same is true in either Mojave or Catalina.

Wow! That sounds like quite a setup.

But if it's what you were referring to when you said "Booting into the Recovery Drive (Command+R) on my MBP takes less time than booting normally," your extended boot time is extraneous to this conversation.
_________________________
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory Of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire

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#52087 - 07/21/19 12:35 AM Re: DU live verification vs. recovery mode [Re: joemikeb]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: joemikeb
Originally Posted By: artie505
Can you direct us to contradictory documentation?

I have recently read such documentation but I don't remember where. I will see if I can dig it up, but don't hold your breath as it may take a while.

Since you're busy helping us out by beta testing Catalina, I decided to help you out and do some searching.

Verify a disk using Disk Utility on Mac states that
Quote:
You can use Disk Utility to check a disk for problems, then repair them using First Aid.
and
Quote:
If Disk Utility reports that the disk appears to be OK, you’re done. Otherwise, you need to repair the disk. (Emphasis added)

"repair the disk" is a link to Repair a disk using Disk Utility on Mac, and it states
Quote:
This topic describes how to repair the disk that started up your Mac.
and
Quote:
Choose Apple menu > Restart. After your Mac restarts (some Mac computers play a startup sound), press and hold the Command and R keys until the Apple logo appears, then release the keys.
i.e. boot into Recovery.

Coming around full-circle, then, all of that means that this pop-up either suffers from an exceedingly poor choice of words or indicates that Apple's left hand isn't paying attention to its right hand.

At this point, I guess we need for someone with a disk in need of repair to tell us what happens next.
_________________________
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory Of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire

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#52123 - 07/23/19 08:27 AM Re: DU live verification vs. recovery mode [Re: artie505]
joemikeb Online

Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas
Originally Posted By: artie505
Coming around full-circle, then, all of that means that this pop-up either suffers from an exceedingly poor choice of words or indicates that Apple's left hand isn't paying attention to its right hand.

I agree it is a poor choice of words but from my experience as a software developer I suspect the statement was
  1. written by a technical writer who was/is unaware of the true situation
  2. true at one point in the development process but has been overcome by developmental realities
  3. a victim of the intersection of those who can write good code and those who can write comprehensible English is infinitesimally small
Personally I would place my money on C but it could just as easily been A or B.

Originally Posted By: artie505
At this point, I guess we need for someone with a disk in need of repair to tell us what happens next.

Yes, and truthfully I hope it isn't one of my disks that gets messed up.
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joemikeb • moderator

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#52126 - 07/23/19 10:35 PM Re: DU live verification vs. recovery mode [Re: joemikeb]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Fingers crossed for ya!
_________________________
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory Of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire

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Moderator:  alternaut, dkmarsh, joemikeb