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#51798 - 06/03/19 12:50 PM Catalina
joemikeb Online
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Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas
Did you watch today's WWDC? (If not click here.)

Did you notice...
  • The Apple Watch is getting stand alone (no iphone required) Apple and third party apps including its own App Store? (NOTE: I sometimes leave my iPhone at home because the Watch already handles the most used featrues without iPhone support.)
  • "Files" isn't a full fledged Finder yet, but it is taking a big step in that direction?
  • iPadOS is a dedicated branch of the iOS tree?
  • Dark mode is coming to iOS/iPadOS?
  • Mouse support included in iPadOS
  • Siri is not ony becoming a better speaker, but also a better listener up toand including complete voice control of Catalina? (and iOS/iPadOS?)
  • Macs, iPads, and iPhones are merging into a single integrated work environment each capitalizing on the strength of the other.
  • With changes in Swift and the advent of SwiftUI development environments iOS apps are a few hours work away from becoming Catalina apps?
  • In Catalina (MacOS 10.13) iTunes becomes a near clone of iOS's Music app (see the previous bullet)?
  • You can get a bottom of the line Mac Pro complete with the new 32" monitor for under $10K?
  • There were several notable security enhancements including…
    • Apple passwords and IDs in lieu of Facebook, Google, and Twitter IDs and Passwords for logging onto third party sites
    • More data being crunched on the local device rather than passed to a server for interpretaation
    • Video Cam handling with any data going to iCloud being encrypted and not counting against iCloud Drive data limits


Edited by joemikeb (06/03/19 05:22 PM)
Edit Reason: additions
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#51799 - 06/03/19 05:08 PM Re: Catalina [Re: joemikeb]
joemikeb Online
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Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas
According to this Apple Insider article
Originally Posted By: Apple Insider
Apps that have not passed through Apple's software security process will be prevented from running on macOS Catalina.
This may be more of a roadblock to older, and some newer, third party apps than deleting the 32 bit APIs. On the other hand it may get rid of a lot of crapware such as MacKeeper.


Edited by joemikeb (06/03/19 05:14 PM)
Edit Reason: Formatting
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#51800 - 06/03/19 05:19 PM Re: Catalina [Re: joemikeb]
joemikeb Online
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Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas
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#51801 - 06/03/19 05:34 PM Re: Catalina [Re: joemikeb]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: joemikeb
According to this Apple Insider article
Originally Posted By: Apple Insider
Apps that have not passed through Apple's software security process will be prevented from running on macOS Catalina.
This may be more of a roadblock to older, and some newer, third party apps than deleting the 32 bit APIs. On the other hand it may get rid of a lot of crapware such as MacKeeper.

Do you think that specifically means that there won't be an over-ride option as there is now?

More: It's not clear in your linked article, although "default" suggests one.


Edited by artie505 (06/04/19 02:33 AM)
Edit Reason: More
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#51802 - 06/04/19 05:01 AM Re: Catalina [Re: joemikeb]
freelance Offline


Registered: 08/05/09
Loc: London, UK
This is my quandry: I have to be able to run CS5 Photoshop, Bridge and InDesign. Everything works fine on my aging MacPro 5,1 running High Sierra and seems to work on my MacBook Air running Mojave.

I expect to have to replace this 10-year-old MacPro soon with an iMac. So, do I have to buy the iMac before Catalina comes out, can I still run CS5 on Catalina?

Photoshop is 64-bit, but InDesign and Bridge are not.

Thanks.
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#51803 - 06/04/19 09:16 AM Re: Catalina [Re: joemikeb]
Ira L Offline


Registered: 08/13/09
Loc: California
Originally Posted By: joemikeb
Did you watch today's WWDC? (If not click here.)

Did you notice...
  • Mouse support included in iPadOS



I also read that SD card and camera support will be available via USB with iPadOS.
Hmm. Does that mean some sort of hardware reader will plug into the iPad?
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#51804 - 06/04/19 09:49 AM Re: Catalina [Re: freelance]
joemikeb Online
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Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas
Originally Posted By: Artie505
Do you think that specifically means that there won't be an over-ride option as there is now?

More: It's not clear in your linked article, although "default" suggests one.

You got me 🤷‍♂️

If there is an override it might be more difficult to do. It does not appear Apple is attempting to punish or impede non-app store developers, rather they are trying to protect users, especially the less technically aware, from inadvertently getting infected with Mal-ware. All Apple is requiring is for the software be scanned for hidden malware, not that it meet app-store standards. At least I hope not as I depend on several apps that have an app-store version and a non-app store version that has significantly expanded capabilities. Two that come immediately to mind are NeoOffice and Daisy Disk and there are several others that won't be in the app-store because they cannot do their thing within the confines of a "sandbox".

I am confident there will be power users and others — even some on these forums — who will grumble that Apple is acting like too much like a "Nanny" but they/we are a minuscule portion of Apple's market. I will find the answer to your question in July with the release of the Catalina Public Beta.

Originally Posted By: freelance
This is my quandry: I have to be able to run CS5 Photoshop, Bridge and InDesign. Everything works fine on my aging MacPro 5,1 running High Sierra and seems to work on my MacBook Air running Mojave.

I expect to have to replace this 10-year-old MacPro soon with an iMac. So, do I have to buy the iMac before Catalina comes out, can I still run CS5 on Catalina?

Photoshop is 64-bit, but InDesign and Bridge are not.

There is no possibility for InDesign or Bridge to run in Catalina. They are reliant on 32bit APIs (Application Program Interface) for access to or from the OS. Those APIs have been removed from MacOS 10.15 so there is no possible way to use those apps in Catalina. Period — end of discussion.

Since your version of Photoshop is 64 bit it becomes another matter. The gatekeeper prevents applications from being installed and as far as I know does not re-verify apps after they they have been installed (although there is apparently a "nag" function to warn against 32 bit apps in Mojave) so Gatekeeper probably won't be involved with Photoshop unless you attempt to re-install it. That does NOT mean Photoshop will run in Catalina however. Adobe apps often get deep down into the OS which might have changed in Catalina and could therefore prevent some Photoshop functions or even Photoshop itself from running. The only answer there would be to try it and see. Given Adobe's current business model I wouldn't look to them for any help either.

An alternative you might consider is Affinity Photo, Affinity Designer, and Affinity Publisher (I believe Publisher will be released next week.) I have said elsewhere that I am not an expert in Affinity Photo/Designer/Publisher or the Adobe equivalents but it appears to me Affinity's apps are credible competition.
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#51805 - 06/04/19 10:16 AM Re: Catalina [Re: joemikeb]
freelance Offline


Registered: 08/05/09
Loc: London, UK
Thanks. I feel another learning curve coming on... frown
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#51808 - 06/04/19 01:57 PM Re: Catalina [Re: Ira L]
joemikeb Online
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Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas
Originally Posted By: Ira L
I also read that SD card and camera support will be available via USB with iPadOS.
Hmm. Does that mean some sort of hardware reader will plug into the iPad?

I have used USB SD card readers for years including on my current MacBook Pro and the only reason they could not be used on the iPad before now has been the lack of a driver in iOS. How much power the older iPads can provide through their lightning ports may have also been an issue. However the current iPad Pros all have USB C instead of Lightning connectors so I would go out on a limb and assume they are capable of providing sufficient power for an adaptor.
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#51809 - 06/04/19 02:20 PM Re: Catalina [Re: freelance]
joemikeb Online
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Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas
Originally Posted By: freelance
Thanks. I feel another learning curve coming on... frown

I've always gone on the theory that I will stop learning when I stop living but sometimes the learning curve does get steeper and the further behind I get the higher and the steeper it gets.
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#51810 - 06/05/19 05:22 AM Re: Catalina [Re: freelance]
MacManiac Offline
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Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Paradise....on the central Ore...
This may be a circumstance which lends itself to virtualization....perhaps Parallels or VMWare may provide a means to run the requisite earlier MacOS version (complete with 32 bit API's) in a virtual machine where it could not be run on the actual?
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#51811 - 06/05/19 08:45 AM Re: Catalina [Re: joemikeb]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: joemikeb
Originally Posted By: Artie505
Do you think that specifically means that there won't be an over-ride option as there is now?

More: It's not clear in your linked article, although "default" suggests one.

You got me 🤷‍♂️

If there is an override it might be more difficult to do. It does not appear Apple is attempting to punish or impede non-app store developers, rather they are trying to protect users, especially the less technically aware, from inadvertently getting infected with Mal-ware. All Apple is requiring is for the software be scanned for hidden malware, not that it meet app-store standards. At least I hope not as I depend on several apps that have an app-store version and a non-app store version that has significantly expanded capabilities. Two that come immediately to mind are NeoOffice and Daisy Disk and there are several others that won't be in the app-store because they cannot do their thing within the confines of a "sandbox".

I am confident there will be power users and others — even some on these forums — who will grumble that Apple is acting like too much like a "Nanny" but they/we are a minuscule portion of Apple's market. I will find the answer to your question in July with the release of the Catalina Public Beta.

When Apple introduced Gatekeeper I was curious about how developers would work on new apps that hadn't even been seen, let alone cleared, by Apple, and although my original curiosity turned out to have been moot, it has once again possibly become pertinent.

Is there some environment of which I"m unaware in which developers are able to work free of any Gatekeeper or similar restrictions?
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In Memory Of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire

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#51813 - 06/05/19 04:51 PM Re: Catalina [Re: artie505]
joemikeb Online
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Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas
Originally Posted By: artie505
Is there some environment of which I"m unaware in which developers are able to work free of any Gatekeeper or similar restrictions?

I know of multiple options, including…
  1. the one we all know for suspending/overriding the gatekeeper in the System Preferences > Security & Privacy preference pane. Personally I have no reason to believe this is going away but it might get tougher to activate.
  2. Apple's excellent development environment, Xcode, and particularly the Swift playgrounds will not only run MacOS applications, Swift executes each line of code as it is being typed in. Swift not only creates and runs MacOS applications but iOS, iPadOS, WatchOS, and TVOS apps as well and at the same time. That ability is essential to Apples "develop once run everywhere" approach that was touted at some length in the recent WWDC. Xcode, including Swift, is a free download from Apple. (NOTE: Develop once and run anywhere is why Apple's iOS and MacOS apps are becoming peas from the same pod and why we should expect to see a flood of iOS apps and games appearing in the Mac App Store.)
  3. Testflight is an Apple app for iOS/iPadOS that allows registered testers to download alpha and beta apps before they are ready for the App Store. (Note: Apps downloaded through Testflight have a definite lifespan, say 30 to 45 days, before they either have to be updated or they simply quit working and evaporate. I have only used Testflight with iOS apps and in my experience all the Testflight apps are rigorously "sandboxed" which I suspect is a limitation of Testflight — there is no "installer".
  4. This is pure speculation, but I would not be surprised to find there is a hidden preference setting or command available through the MacOS command line to disable Gatekeeper altogether. If one had the patience to spend a few hundred hours browsing through all the various developer manuals you could probably find it. I won't go digging unless I am getting paid handsomely for it. (On second thought, probably not or someone would have leaked it into the public domain.)


Edited by joemikeb (06/05/19 04:58 PM)
Edit Reason: Second thought
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#51814 - 06/06/19 09:34 AM Re: Catalina [Re: joemikeb]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Thanks for that.

It leads to the question of whether running an under-development app in "Xcode, and particularly the Swift playgrounds" gives a developer the same feel for how hir app is performing as running it in the "real world," i.e. macOS, does? I.e, will it suffice if Gatekeeper prevents the (unsigned) app from running?

I can't imagine that there won't be a way for a developer to run an app free of Gatekeeper restrictions; I guess we'll have to wait to see what it is.
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In Memory Of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire

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#51815 - 06/08/19 07:52 AM Re: Catalina [Re: artie505]
joemikeb Online
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Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas
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