An open community 
of Macintosh users,
for Macintosh users.

FineTunedMac Dashboard widget now available! Download Here

Page 3 of 4 < 1 2 3 4 >
Topic Options
#51258 - 03/03/19 06:19 PM Re: Maybe 45 needs to end it all with a .45 [Re: ryck]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: ryck
I was happy to hear about the 243 pounds, although I would have guessed higher. With that much excess weight, and the amount of junk food he wolfs down, can a major cardio infarction be far behind? We can only hope.

I'm with you, and I'll guess that at least 20-25# disappeared under the C-i-c's orders to his military MD, i.e. "OK, we'll tell them that I've crossed the obesity line, but NOT by how much."

The junk he consumes constitutes a major cardio infraction, so, hopefully, a mere two letter transposition isn't very far behind. grin

Y'know, at this point, I think I'd prefer to see him survive until very shortly before the next election and then throw the Republican campaign into complete disarray by becoming incapacitated...or worse...or faaar worse, rather than have Pence become President sooner and solidify his position as the basis for his own run...and potential second run.
_________________________
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory Of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire

Top
#51304 - 03/11/19 04:48 PM Re: Maybe 45 needs to end it all with a .45 [Re: artie505]
ryck Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Okanagan Valley
Originally Posted By: artie505
Y'know, at this point, I think I'd prefer to see him survive until very shortly before the next election and then throw the Republican campaign into complete disarray by becoming incapacitated...

He may already be there, mentally at least. A few months ago he addressed the CEO of Lockheed Martin, Marilyn Hewson, as Marilyn Lockheed and now Tim Cook becomes Tim Apple. Har har har. I'm willing to bet that, if he met with the head of General Motors, Trump would ask him why he didn't wear his uniform.


Edited by ryck (03/11/19 04:51 PM)
_________________________
ryck

iMac (Retina 5K, 27", 2017), 3.4 GHz Intel Core i5, 8GB RAM, 2400 MHz DDR4
OS High Sierra 10.13.6
Canon MX710 Printer
Epson Perfection V500 Photo Scanner
Time Machine on 320GB OWC Mercury OTG Pro
Super Duper on 500GB OWC Mercury OTG Pro

Top
#51500 - 04/08/19 01:37 PM Re: Maybe 45 needs to end it all with a .45 [Re: grelber]
JM Hanes Offline


Registered: 09/03/09
I was just dropping in to say hello, but it looks like this thread could use some intellectual diversity, so I thought I'd just say I'm a serious Trump fan, right down to the MAGA! I think he's doing a remarkable job, especially considering the headwinds (not to mention the bogus investigations) he's been facing.

But never mind that, I hope everybody's doing well. For once, I don't actually have a tech problem that needs fixing!

Top
#51502 - 04/09/19 05:52 AM Re: Maybe 45 needs to end it all with a .45 [Re: JM Hanes]
ryck Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Okanagan Valley
Originally Posted By: JM Hanes
I was just dropping in to say hello, but it looks like this thread could use some intellectual diversity...

Good point….and welcome too, I’m sure. It’s always good to hear the opinions and rationale of another view.

Originally Posted By: JM Hanes
....I'm a serious Trump fan, right down to the MAGA! I think he's doing a remarkable job, especially considering the headwinds (not to mention the bogus investigations) he's been facing.

I think the dialogue would be furthered if you could put some meat on these bones. For example, what are the things Trump has done that you believe are good for America and why do you believe the investigations are bogus?


Edited by ryck (04/09/19 05:57 AM)
_________________________
ryck

iMac (Retina 5K, 27", 2017), 3.4 GHz Intel Core i5, 8GB RAM, 2400 MHz DDR4
OS High Sierra 10.13.6
Canon MX710 Printer
Epson Perfection V500 Photo Scanner
Time Machine on 320GB OWC Mercury OTG Pro
Super Duper on 500GB OWC Mercury OTG Pro

Top
#51503 - 04/09/19 06:56 AM Re: Maybe 45 needs to end it all with a .45 [Re: JM Hanes]
MacManiac Online
Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Paradise....on the central Ore...
Hi JM, and welcome back....it has been too long.

I would second ryck's request for some more meat in order to get a real-world conversation started and try to avoid a divergence into emotional name calling if at all possible.

As a retired Naval Officer, with direct experience in many other countries and cultures, my personal concerns with our President's actions, policies and performance as a world leader are based on the broader picture of our Nation's perception and position on the stage of international policy and effectiveness as a result. I would welcome your inputs on how he is helping to make America great again when viewed through this window.
_________________________
Freedom is never free....thank a Service member today.

Top
#51504 - 04/09/19 11:10 AM Re: Maybe 45 needs to end it all with a .45 [Re: grelber]
JM Hanes Offline


Registered: 09/03/09
Hello ryck and MacManiac!

Yes, it has certainly been a long time. I'd be happy to put some meat on my pro-Trump position, but it will probably be this weekend before I have time to collect my thoughts on 'paper.' I appreciate being asked!

Top
#51505 - 04/09/19 01:00 PM Re: Maybe 45 needs to end it all with a .45 [Re: grelber]
Alam Offline


Registered: 04/09/19
So that's where the old crowd lives now!

Nice new home... cool smile

Top
#51509 - 04/09/19 09:05 PM Re: Maybe 45 needs to end it all with a .45 [Re: Alam]
MacManiac Online
Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Paradise....on the central Ore...
Hi Alam, welcome back to you as well!
_________________________
Freedom is never free....thank a Service member today.

Top
#51529 - 04/11/19 10:15 PM Re: Maybe 45 needs to end it all with a .45 [Re: ryck]
JM Hanes Offline


Registered: 09/03/09
Originally Posted By: ryck
I think the dialogue would be furthered if you could put some meat on these bones. For example, what are the things Trump has done that you believe are good for America and why do you believe the investigations are bogus?

Originally Posted By: MacManiac
As a retired Naval Officer, with direct experience in many other countries and cultures, my personal concerns with our President's actions, policies and performance as a world leader are based on the broader picture of our Nation's perception and position on the stage of international policy and effectiveness as a result.

Big questions! My response ended up being at least three comments long, so I decided that's how I'd post it. If I tried to make it shorter it would just take longer, and it doesn't look like I'll be interrupting another conversation. I'll start by just referring you to this article: Trump’s list: 289 accomplishments in just 20 months, ‘relentless’ promise-keeping in the Washington Examiner, and then concentrate on responding to the investigation and foreign policy questions. That list was as of last October, so I'm sure the count is higher now. smile

Yes, it includes a lot of cheerleading, and the Wash. Examiner is a decidedly conservative outlet, but if you want to hear anything positive about the President, that's where you have to look. It seems to me that most of the coverage devoted to Trump in other mainstream news outfits is just inside the Beltway gossip which almost none of the gazillion anonymous promulgators wants to own up to. It has also practically drowned out substantive coverage about a lot of what else the President has been doing.

In any case, while we may disagree about what constitutes desirable change, the article will give you a general idea of how Republicans on a whole see Trump. I do think that the economy has been chugging along nicely. The numbers are looking good and we're basically at full employment. Black unemployment, in particular, is way down, and that's not an accident. Trump has paid more attention to inner cities than any prior Republican in my memory. That's also why he's doing better, approval wise, in black and hispanic/latino communities than former Republican White House contenders, and I believe that's a healthy change. I think he gets a bad rap on the immigration front, but that is yet another discussion.

And on to Part Deux...

Top
#51530 - 04/11/19 10:28 PM Re: Maybe 45 needs to end it all with a .45 [Re: JM Hanes]
JM Hanes Offline


Registered: 09/03/09
On the 24/7 Investigations

The Russian "collusion" meme seemed absurd to me from the start. People just repeated the same shallow talking points, almost in unison, over and over, when nothing that Trump was being lambasted for came any where close to questionable long-standing Clinton/Russia connections, including facilitating the sale of American uranium to the Russians, and campaign manager John Podesta's firm, which lobbied on behalf of Putin's Russian bank for years. Podesta's brother was up to his eyeballs in Ukraine. Shoot, even Joe Biden's son was involved in a tangle there. Sharyl Attkisson reported some of the basics at The Hill back in January, but it's been public knowledge far longer than that.

Even before Mueller closed up shop, it was obvious from the lack of Russia related indictments, that he wasn't finding anything. He'd pull people in for process crimes, hoping they'd offer up information in exchange for plea deals, without success. Even Manafort, whom I do not defend, was hauled up on Ukraine related charges that other prosecutors had declined to pursue years ago, and again, had nothing to do with Russian interference in the election.

If Mueller and his crack team of partisan prosecutors couldn't find anything after 2 years and $30 million, then I think it's safe to say there's just no there there. It's not like Democrats and the media haven't been trying just as assiduously to find something on Trump ever since he won the election, either. The revival of demands for Trump's taxes is about as transparent as a fishing expedition gets. They can't tell you what they're looking for, they just know there's got to be something there they can use!

The fact that the US government was spying on the opposition Presidential candidate's campaign is the real scandal here, IMO. Democrats can call it surveillance, as if that makes a difference. We've known for some time that the document on which the intell agents based their FISA application for the original and subsequent warrants was a dossier paid for by the Clinton campaign and the DNC. The FISA judge was never informed of that fact. As if that weren't bad enough, when a Special Counsel is appointed, it is incumbent on the DoJ to include the crime which is to serve as the predicate for his investigation in the grant of authority. No underlying crime was specified, and that wasn't a simple oversight. There's a lot more info out there, but those are some of the highlights.

I think the rolling investigations make things more difficult on the international front. It's not the investigations per se, it's the uncertainty about what the Democrats are trying to do. People like the former Ambassador to Ukraine, who told the Ukrainians not to worry about heeding Trump, because there was no way he would be serving out his full term, are not helping the US! Sheesh!

Continuing right along....

Top
#51531 - 04/11/19 10:50 PM Re: Maybe 45 needs to end it all with a .45 [Re: JM Hanes]
JM Hanes Offline


Registered: 09/03/09
On Foreign Policy

I have to say up front that I consider Obama's handling of foreign policy was disastrous at almost every level, so I think almost anyone would have been an improvement.

MacManiac, as navy man you must have looked on in dismay as China started building new islands in the South China Sea, no? It struck me as a patently obvious attempt to push for hegemony over the busiest sea lanes in the world. The Chinese knew what Obama wanted more than anything else from them was an environmental agreement, and they played him like a fiddle. Xi agreed (in principle!) to stop increasing emissions some time around 2031, and Obama essentially left him alone in the sandbox. If even I figured out a decade ago that the ultimate flash point was likely to be maritime, I'd have thought it must be obvious to the swells in Washington, but the previous administration did little but watch as Xi extended his reach..

The Chinese have always seen themselves as a maritime power, and controlling the South China Sea, which handles a huge percentage of global transit, would change global dynamics in substantive ways. Trump has taken Xi on directly and indirectly. Previous Presidents have complained about currency manipulation, but never did anything about it. Trump has put Xi off balance, which scares a lot of diplomats, who are all about protecting the status quo. That may seem safer, but it also inhibits positive change. The whole thing is a work in progress, but here again he's moving the needle. Xi really likes Mar-a-Lago, btw. Did you know that he's the one who asked that their first meeting take place there and not in Washington? There were other reasons for that original choice, of course, but I think he may have requested that their next meeting take place there too. It certainly doesn't hurt that Trump's granddaughter can sing and dance in Chinese.

Ditto on moving the needle with Kim Jong Un. Although their last meeting stalled out, and there will be all sorts of posturing in its wake, Trump has done more to change Kim Jong Un's trajectory than any of our previous presidents. They all eventually caved in and sent the food with which the Kims propped up their regimes. Trump even persuaded the Chinese to stop shipping coal to NK, which while largely symbolic, was still more than anybody else had managed to get them to do. South Korean President Moon Jae-in, who was not originally a Trump fan, is in Washington right now, I believe, for consultations. He has certainly welcomed the space that Trump has created for further discussions on the Korean Peninsula, and Kim Jong Un is considerably further away from launching rockets willy nilly than he was when Trump took office.

On the other side of the globe, Obama was willing to sacrifice almost every other interest to sign an agreement with Iran before he left office. He crossed a lot of red lines to get that deal done, and we still don't know what else he agreed to in the secret side deals. Iran is a bad actor, and they were in breach before the ink dried. In the aftermath of the Libya debacle, or in the midst of it, the Revolutionary Guards were stealing huge quantities of major weaponry, and dropping it off in Sudan for safe storage. BTW, Kim Jong Un was reported to view Obama's "kinetic exercise" in Libya as a cautionary tale, in re what happens to dictators who give up their nukes.

Trump has changed the whole dynamic in the Middle East. Taking down ISIS, without permanently setting off Russian and Turkish trip wires was no small achievement. Instead of focusing on brokering an Israeli/Palestinian resolution, as so many Administrations have spun their wheels trying, without success, to do, he did something new. He recognized Jerusalem as the Israeli capital, which other Presidents had shilly shallied around, and he encouraged regional "stake holders" to take a more active part in their own defenses, particularly vis a vis Iran. The Israelis and the Saudis have even been doing some joint operations, which is certainly a first.

I don't know if you have any particular hot spots in mind, but those are a couple of the places where I think President Trump has already made a positive difference, as I see things. The picture is more mixed in Europe, but I think he may actually end up revivifying NATO, much to a lot of folks' surprise. I wonder if people generally are aware of how steady the stream of heads-of-state visiting the Trump White House has been.

I'll just arbitrarily stop here, and say again, thanks for asking, and hope you don't regret it!

Top
#51540 - 04/12/19 09:42 AM Re: Maybe 45 needs to end it all with a .45 [Re: JM Hanes]
Ira L Offline


Registered: 08/13/09
Loc: California
I have always been able to discuss politics with anyone of any political persuasion, from liberal to conservative, from hedonist to totalitarian. People can differ on what they think is a good and proper political agenda. I also believe that all politicians are corrupt to some level, or they would not have gotten as far as they have; it is a dirty game if one chooses to play. What I cannot tolerate is the hypocrisy of the current administration, the constant changing of stories and backpedalling, and the ignorance of the roles of the branches of the government and of a free press in a democracy.

Most people accept that pretty much beginning with Gary Hart's tryst, the sexual behavior of candidates and of sitting presidents is under a public microscope. Right or wrong, the current players jumped all over a past president and sitting senators and congressmen for their peccadillos; yet, for the current administration, as long as corporate taxes are cut or a wall is built, sexual behavior does not matter. To me that is hypocrisy.

For the current administration to condemn the past one for excessive travel expenses and then in the first year of this administration exceed the costs of the previous 8 years, that is hypocrisy.

To condemn deficit spending, even if for a national good like fixing the infrastructure, and then to create and pass a budget that creates one of the fastest growing deficits in the history of the United States, that is hypocrisy.

To announce in one of the Presidential Debates of 2016 that "when [not if] I win, I will release my tax returns" and then not do it, that is hypocrisy.

To accuse the Clinton Foundation of being a pay-for-play organization and then create a Trump Foundation that buys portraits of Trump to hang in Mar-a-Lago and that as a foundation gave $0.00 in charitable donations until the "fake news" press brought the fact to light; that is hypocrisy.

And don't get me started on the welcoming of neo-Nazis literally into the White House. I am sorry, there is no such thing as a "good Nazi." Yes, I am sure that Goring loved his 6 children, maybe even doted on them. That might make him a good father, but the values he imparted to his children are not values of humanity. That makes him not a good person. If someone who participates in a white power rally imparts those similar attitudes, they are not "good people". Good people do not participate in torchlight rallies with signs condemning specific religions and races. That is hypocrisy.

Until the current administration shows an understanding, no an empathy, for those who are different from themselves, whatever that difference may be, I personally will have a hard time seeing all the good. The ends do not always justify the means.
_________________________
On a Mac since 1984.
Currently: 27" iMacs, Macbook Air, macOS 10.14.x,; iPhones, iPods and iPads galore!

Top
#51541 - 04/12/19 10:10 AM Re: Maybe 45 needs to end it all with a .45 [Re: Ira L]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: Ira L
...the ignorance of the roles of the branches of the government and of a free press in a democracy.
(Emphasis added)

On the mark, and very well said, Ira, but I'd say "disdain for" is a more correct description of Trump's attitude.

There is a growing number of "Americans" who don't like the Constitution because it doesn't mesh with their personal agendas, and very unfortunately, one of them has been elected President. frown

No success, either real or imagined, that Trump can claim can negate his assault on the traditional values that had already made America great long before he decided that its greatness needed to be remade in his image.

VERY mad !
_________________________
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory Of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire

Top
#51542 - 04/12/19 10:42 AM Re: Maybe 45 needs to end it all with a .45 [Re: JM Hanes]
Ira L Offline


Registered: 08/13/09
Loc: California
Originally Posted By: JM Hanes
If Mueller and his crack team of partisan prosecutors couldn't find anything after 2 years and $30 million, then I think it's safe to say there's just no there there.


Making any conclusions about the contents of the Mueller report based on the Attorney General's 4 page summary makes as much sense as saying you know all about a movie just from seeing a trailer.
_________________________
On a Mac since 1984.
Currently: 27" iMacs, Macbook Air, macOS 10.14.x,; iPhones, iPods and iPads galore!

Top
#51543 - 04/12/19 12:30 PM Re: Maybe 45 needs to end it all with a .45 [Re: Ira L]
JM Hanes Offline


Registered: 09/03/09
Hypocrisy is the rule, not the exception, in Washington, on both sides of the political aisle. Everybody decries deficit spending, and budgets keep going up. Of course, the budgets are designed in the House of Representatives, not the White House, separation of powers being what it is.

If you haven't seen any empathy for those who are "different" from this President, we must be looking in very different places. I do think it takes a lot of work to cast Trump as a Neo-Nazi cultivator, when his daughter has converted to Judaism for her husband, and Trump's approval in Israel is running at something like 90%, among other markers. He has been meeting African American pastors and other leaders in their communities, where they have good things to say about both his understanding and his empathy. He was New York born and bred, but he certainly understands this country's blue collar workers, and the Americans in flyover country, better than most of his opposition and certainly far better than anyone in the press, to whom all Trump supporters seem to look alike.

I'd be very interested in hearing some examples of where you and Artie believe Trump and those "Americans" who elected him have traduced the Constitution. I thought it was folks on the left who embraced the "living constitution" approach.

As for the Mueller report, I think we can safely assume that he did not recommend any indictments, and there plenty of conclusions that can be drawn from that. Perhaps the Democrats who are pounding on the table for full release now, should have looked at the Special Counsel regulations which don't, in fact, require the AG to release anything to the public at all, before they embraced the Mueller appointment so unreservedly. I suspect that they were so sure he'd find something, that they didn't bother to check, which seems typical at this point. The fact that the Atty General is planning to release an appropriately redacted report goes much further than required, and actually ignores DoJ policy, which is not to release any information about an investigation which does not result in an indictment -- for what we used to call the protection of the innocent. If Barr's summary (including the statement that nothing requested by Mueller was denied to him), misrepresented Muller's findings, would Mueller sit idly by?

Top
#51544 - 04/12/19 01:43 PM Re: Maybe 45 needs to end it all with a .45 [Re: JM Hanes]
MacManiac Online
Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Paradise....on the central Ore...
Thanks for taking the time, effort and thought to provide the details. I'll try to stay within the dotted lines in responding and keep our discussion moving forward....

Let me open with totally agreeing that our last president did many things on the world stage with which I took issue. He misused the military as an international police force and gave away more of the US leadership role in so many ways as to be nearly uncountable, however, this was meant to be a discussion of our current president's strengths and weaknesses, so rather than trying to make one look better by comparing him to the other I'd like to focus more on actions versus results for our current president.

I disagree that almost anyone would have been an improvement....we needed a world statesman in office to lead our nation back into a position as world role-model. Someone who could unwind and repair the damages created by past presidents (who shall remain nameless). Someone who could take input from a well-balanced staff of people holding the knowledge and experience that he might not have personally held. Someone who chose the higher path when confronted with conflicting inputs. Someone who wanted to present a consistent message to the world on values, integrity and ability. Someone who understood the deeper impacts of actions and who could anticipate the consequences before the action was presented as a "fait accompli". Someone who could be outraged in private, yet be calm in public.

The Chinese have always taken the long view....on everything. I personally was shot at in the South China Sea as a young sailor, on a US Naval vessel, nearly 50 years ago when our ship transgressed what they felt was their territorial waters (while still in International waters, by the way). Building up those same atolls to become man-made islands, then populating them with military facilities is an action that they have been planning for decades....and we have known about it and had contingency plans in-place for just as long.

Diplomacy regards the status quo as a starting point, not an ending point....and views the pace and scale of change with very cautious regard to consequences. Our current president has not yet shown any regard for the law of unintended consequences in his actions toward other nations, other political entities, his chosen staff, or even the underlying laws and standards that guide him in his duties as the leader of this nation....and when confronted with advice on how to better deal with the very real challenges that he faces, he has chosen to publicly "shoot the messenger". The level of apparent chaos and discord that is publicly displayed in the current administration has hamstrung many long-standing and effective international relationships to the detriment of our nation.

North Korea is and has been an extremely complicated situation....they are still in an active war (an armistice is NOT a treaty) with South Korea and to approach that rogue nation's loose cannon leader while being perceived by the leaders of the the rest of the world as if he too were a loose cannon leader holds way more potential for disaster than any of us want to imagine. I've spent considerable time in Korea and have seen how seriously they take the fact that the peace there is fragile....very fragile.

The Middle East....where to begin? The Western world has been interfering with and attempting to change things in that part of the world for centuries. It remains different from the Western world for a good reason....they want it to be different. Changing national boundaries (Pakistan / India / Jordan / UAE / Israel / all the rest) and assuming that all of those entities in that part of the world will follow the same cultural norms as the Western world is a huge mistake. Most folks here in the US who have never traveled outside of their home nation have a false sense of expectations for how the Middle East thinks and responds. It is different. Recognizing Jerusalem as the Israeli capital was not done in the past for some very good reasons.....there will be consequences for that action as a result. Most of those potential consequences were clearly recognized and considered in the past by knowledgeable advisors to past presidents, who were then expected to make an informed decision regarding what action(s) to take.....I'm not convinced that our current president was open to such advice.

Our current president did NOT defeat and eliminate ISIS....any more than any of his predecessors were successful in defeating and eliminating the Taliban or Al Qaeda. We as a nation created the environment where the ISIS movement could flourish and expand in the view that through their actions (or inactions) as a nation, the US was a weak and inadequate outside influence to their region. We as a nation were responsible for creating the diplomatic alliances needed to bring effective military action into the region to overcome our past mistake(s). How we are viewed as a nation by other world leaders, European, Pan Asian, Middle Eastern, et al (BOTH our allies AND our adversaries) is critical to how effective our efforts might be when confronted by such things as ISIS.

I lived and worked in Turkey and one of the most common questions that I was asked was "What do you feel about your new President?".....to be culturally sensitive, I had to bite my lips and remain very neutral in my response while suppressing my urge to offer the same question to my Turkish friends about their "President". When the political climate there became too unstable, I had to turn my back on further work in Turkey....theirs is a challenging time, far more so than ours.

As to NATO, while I may not agree with his actions regarding our NATO relationships, I do agree with our President's analysis that our relationship, as a nation, with NATO is out of balance and change is needed.....I just think that there might be better ways to approach that need than I've seen demonstrated so far.

I really regret that we, again as a Nation, have been unable to present a consistent face to the rest of the world as we address the issues currently confronting us.

One of the predecessors to our current president once declared that, "The Buck Stops HERE!".....it wouldn't hurt my feelings to see that level of leadership once more in my lifetime.
_________________________
Freedom is never free....thank a Service member today.

Top
#51545 - 04/12/19 03:48 PM Re: Maybe 45 needs to end it all with a .45 [Re: MacManiac]
joemikeb Offline
Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas
Originally Posted By: MacManiac
One of the predecessors to our current president once declared that, "The Buck Stops HERE!".....it wouldn't hurt my feelings to see that level of leadership once more in my lifetime.
🇺🇸 AMEN 🇺🇸
_________________________
joemikeb • moderator

Top
#51569 - 04/14/19 01:42 AM Re: Maybe 45 needs to end it all with a .45 [Re: JM Hanes]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: JM Hanes
I'd be very interested in hearing some examples of where you and Artie believe Trump and those "Americans" who elected him have traduced the Constitution.

I'd say "shown contempt for." ("Traduce" is what Trump does to people he doesn't like or who don't agree with him.)

As evidenced by his constant attempts to suppress the media with his "false news" rhetoric, and more to the point, his openly expressed desire to make it illegal for the media to criticize him, Trump has shown contempt for for the First Amendment guaranteed freedoms of speech and the press.

And his constant attacks on the Judiciary demonstrate contempt for the separation of powers so wisely imposed by the Constitution. (*)

Representative of Trump's constituency, I've seen right-to-life literature that complained about "nine people who weren't even elected to their positions," i.e. the Supreme Court Justices, and by extension, the Constitutional wisdom of not filling positions on the Court based on the results of popularity contests which would inevitably revolve around the expression of opinions about cases future Justices may have to hear.

The Constitution is, indeed, under attack by Trump and his minions.

(*) I've often wondered how Trump's ex-federal judge sister truly feels about his attacks on the judiciary.


Edited by artie505 (04/14/19 07:07 PM)
Edit Reason: Succinctify
_________________________
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory Of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire

Top
#51571 - 04/14/19 07:04 PM Re: Maybe 45 needs to end it all with a .45 [Re: MacManiac]
JM Hanes Offline


Registered: 09/03/09
Well, I'll back off my hyperbolic statement that almost anyone would have been better, but I think it's very difficult to take about foreign policy in a vacuum. We could all design better Presidents than the ones we have at any given point in time.

Yes, the Chinese take the long view, but if we've had contingency plans in place for countering the Chinese island building, you could have fooled me. I'd have thought it wiser to do some pushing back before all those new military outposts became fully operational.

I you could anticipate unintended consequences they wouldn't be unintended. I personally think the whole "choas at the White House" theme is seriously overplayed. Some of it is simply Trump's management style, to which I'm sure people who have spent their lives in government, in particular, have some trouble adjusting. As for North Korea, Trump has certainly moved the ball further than anyone else has managed to do, and it seems to me that the South Koreans, on the whole, are pretty supportive of what he has been doing.

I'm aware of Middle Eastern history, and the west's role in carving it up to their own satisfaction, and I see no indication that this president thinks that part of the world operates according to the same norms that we do. I have to say that was an illusion that the former administration seemed to hold to. Yes we and our allies under Obama's international leadership allowed ISIS to flourish, and we and our allies under Trump's international leadership brought it to its knees. It is important to distinguish between ISIS and other terrorist groups like Al Qaeda, which I believe is what you were alluding to. ISIS had clear territorial goals, and managed to set up a very effectiely functioning bureaucratic state (which I have recently learned depending on taxation, not things like ransoms, for the bulk of its revenues). That state has now been virtually wiped off the map, and that represents an existential defeat in my book. Could they rise again elsewhere? Only time will tell.

As for NATO, getting recalcitrant members to meet their agreed upon obligations which they have been allowed to shirk for decades was never going to be pretty. I always thought it was the height of irony to hear Europeans disparage the amount of money the US dedicates to it defense budge, while touting the social programs that the US defense umbrella allowed them to pursue. George W. Bush, pushed for Europe to ante up, but also to begin developing specialist expertise, by country, rather than duplicating standard military structures, which hopefully is something that this President will also pursue.

I personally believe that history treat this President considerably better than a lot of his contemporaries do, but of course, that' just my opinion, and I was interested to hear yours. Thanks.

Top
#51572 - 04/14/19 07:47 PM Re: Maybe 45 needs to end it all with a .45 [Re: artie505]
JM Hanes Offline


Registered: 09/03/09
I appreciate your reply, but it strikes me as pretty weak anti-constitutional tea.

Originally Posted By: artie505
As evidenced by his constant attempts to suppress the media with his "false news" rhetoric, and more to the point, his openly expressed desire to make it illegal for the media to criticize him, Trump has shown contempt for for the First Amendment guaranteed freedoms of speech and the press.

Considering the fact that the mainstream media has spent more than 2 years pimping Russian Collusion gossip and lies 24 hours a day, I'd say the President is justified in condemning fake news. Even if you still believe Trump was assisted by the Russians, I have to wonder where you were when Obama was issuing subpoenas for AP reporters' phone records, and dusting off the Espionage Act to go after journalists, surveilling James Rosen's computer, and pursuing James Risen for years. According to whistle-blower-in-chief Risen himself:

Quote:
“If Donald J. Trump decides as president to throw a whistle-blower in jail for trying to talk to a reporter, or gets the F.B.I. to spy on a journalist, he will have one man to thank for bequeathing him such expansive power: Barack Obama.”

Trump may have briefly rescinded Jim Acosta's White House credentials, but that's not oppression, that's a President's privilege. He certainly makes himself available to the press often enough. On the flip side, we still aren't entirely sure who masterminded the spying on Candidate Trump, but that operation beats Watergate by several orders of magnitude.

The President may not respect the press, but that's not a first amendment infraction. It's not like the press shows any respect for the President. As far as I know, all his detractors are still out there going strong, from congratulating each other on Pulitzer Prizes for stories since proven without basis in fact, to giving each other awards for bravery and integrity. What I'm not seeing is any chilling effect. If anything i'd have said the 1st amendment is under assault from the left, when you look at the hysterics that greet even fairly mainstream conservative speakers on college campuses, and the demands that they not be allowed to speak.

Originally Posted By: artie505
And his constant attacks on the Judiciary demonstrate contempt for the separation of powers so wisely imposed by the Constitution.

Representative of Trump's constituency, I've seen right-to-life literature that complained about "nine people who weren't even elected to their positions," i.e. the Supreme Court Justices, and by extension, the Constitutional wisdom of not filling positions on the Court based on the results of popularity contests which would inevitably revolve around the expression of opinions about cases future Justices may have to hear.

I'm afraid I'm not entirely sure what you're getting at here, something about electing instead of appointing the Supremes? The only issue I'm aware of that I would call "representative" of Trump's constituency would be consensus on the importance of his promise to appoint conservative, if not originalist, Justices to the Court, as vacancies allowed. The current talk among Democrats of packing the Supreme Court with additional Justices is a far more radical offense than anything I've heard from the right. I must admit the having District Court judges taking it upon themselves to issue nationwide injunctions from the bench is habit we should not want to encourage because it ultimately wreaks nationwide legal havoc, especially when other judges in other states issue oppositie rulings. Conservatives call that legislating from the bench and are admittedly agin' it. There's nothing anti-constitutional about expressing such differences in judicial philosophies, however. Trump has complained about judges, but he has not been refusing to obey court orders.

Just as an addendum, on the treatment of others, I hope folks who have followed the "children in cages" stories from the border are aware that that practice originated under the previous administration. It was not something newly instituted by the current one. I believe they are working on ways to keep families together.

Top
#51573 - 04/14/19 07:59 PM Re: Maybe 45 needs to end it all with a .45 [Re: MacManiac]
JM Hanes Offline


Registered: 09/03/09
I just happened to run across this item at the Washington Examiner, right after I posted my comments.

Jimmy Carter says Trump called him to talk about China

I'd say that definitely looks like seeking input from someone with "knowledge and experience that he might not have personally held."

Top
#51576 - 04/15/19 06:02 AM Re: Maybe 45 needs to end it all with a .45 [Re: grelber]
JM Hanes Offline


Registered: 09/03/09

The President who said,"The buck stops here," is also the President who wrote to Washington Post critic, Paul Hume:
Quote:
"I've just read your lousy review of Margaret's concert. I've come to the conclusion that you are an 'eight ulcer man on four ulcer pay.' It seems to me that you are a frustrated old man who wishes he could have been successful. When you write such poppy-cock as was in the back section of the paper you work for it shows conclusively that you're off the beam and at least four of your ulcers are at work. Some day I hope to meet you. When that happens you'll need a new nose, a lot of beefsteak for black eyes, and perhaps a supporter below! Pegler, a gutter snipe, is a gentleman alongside you. I hope you'll accept that statement as a worse insult than a reflection on your ancestry.".

Then there's his letter to Dean Acheson:
Quote:
In the salty letter, a copy of which was obtained by The Post, Truman rails against newspaper writers and columnists, calling them “more dangerous” than street walkers.

“Presidents and the members of their Cabinets and their staff members have been slandered and misrepresented since George Washington,” Truman wrote in the hand-written diatribe. “When the press is friendly to an administration the opposition has been lied about and treated to the excrescence [sic] of paid prostitutes of the mind.”

In the present context, perhaps it's worth worth remembering that:
Quote:
When Harry S. Truman left the presidency in January 1953, he was one of the most unpopular politicians in the United States.

History has treated him kindly, but his reputation was only rehabilitated after he left office.

Top
#51581 - 04/15/19 10:11 AM Re: Maybe 45 needs to end it all with a .45 [Re: JM Hanes]
Ira L Offline


Registered: 08/13/09
Loc: California
Originally Posted By: JM Hanes
… congratulating each other on Pulitzer Prizes for stories since proven [emphasis added] without basis in fact,…


To which stories are you referring?
_________________________
On a Mac since 1984.
Currently: 27" iMacs, Macbook Air, macOS 10.14.x,; iPhones, iPods and iPads galore!

Top
#51583 - 04/15/19 11:58 PM Re: Maybe 45 needs to end it all with a .45 [Re: JM Hanes]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: JM Hanes
I appreciate your reply, but it strikes me as pretty weak anti-constitutional tea.

Originally Posted By: artie505
As evidenced by his constant attempts to suppress the media with his "false news" rhetoric, and more to the point, his openly expressed desire to make it illegal for the media to criticize him, Trump has shown contempt for for the First Amendment guaranteed freedoms of speech and the press.

Considering the fact that the mainstream media has spent more than 2 years pimping Russian Collusion gossip and lies 24 hours a day, I'd say the President is justified in condemning fake news. Even if you still believe Trump was assisted by the Russians, I have to wonder where you were when Obama was issuing subpoenas for AP reporters' phone records, and dusting off the Espionage Act to go after journalists, surveilling James Rosen's computer, and pursuing James Risen for years. According to whistle-blower-in-chief Risen himself:

Quote:
“If Donald J. Trump decides as president to throw a whistle-blower in jail for trying to talk to a reporter, or gets the F.B.I. to spy on a journalist, he will have one man to thank for bequeathing him such expansive power: Barack Obama.”

Trump may have briefly rescinded Jim Acosta's White House credentials, but that's not oppression, that's a President's privilege. He certainly makes himself available to the press often enough. On the flip side, we still aren't entirely sure who masterminded the spying on Candidate Trump, but that operation beats Watergate by several orders of magnitude.

The President may not respect the press, but that's not a first amendment infraction. It's not like the press shows any respect for the President. As far as I know, all his detractors are still out there going strong, from congratulating each other on Pulitzer Prizes for stories since proven without basis in fact, to giving each other awards for bravery and integrity. What I'm not seeing is any chilling effect. If anything i'd have said the 1st amendment is under assault from the left, when you look at the hysterics that greet even fairly mainstream conservative speakers on college campuses, and the demands that they not be allowed to speak.

Originally Posted By: artie505
And his constant attacks on the Judiciary demonstrate contempt for the separation of powers so wisely imposed by the Constitution.

Representative of Trump's constituency, I've seen right-to-life literature that complained about "nine people who weren't even elected to their positions," i.e. the Supreme Court Justices, and by extension, the Constitutional wisdom of not filling positions on the Court based on the results of popularity contests which would inevitably revolve around the expression of opinions about cases future Justices may have to hear.

I'm afraid I'm not entirely sure what you're getting at here, something about electing instead of appointing the Supremes? The only issue I'm aware of that I would call "representative" of Trump's constituency would be consensus on the importance of his promise to appoint conservative, if not originalist, Justices to the Court, as vacancies allowed. The current talk among Democrats of packing the Supreme Court with additional Justices is a far more radical offense than anything I've heard from the right. I must admit the having District Court judges taking it upon themselves to issue nationwide injunctions from the bench is habit we should not want to encourage because it ultimately wreaks nationwide legal havoc, especially when other judges in other states issue oppositie rulings. Conservatives call that legislating from the bench and are admittedly agin' it. There's nothing anti-constitutional about expressing such differences in judicial philosophies, however. Trump has complained about judges, but he has not been refusing to obey court orders.

Just as an addendum, on the treatment of others, I hope folks who have followed the "children in cages" stories from the border are aware that that practice originated under the previous administration. It was not something newly instituted by the current one. I believe they are working on ways to keep families together.

We're not focusing on this or that specific, and neither the actions of previous administrations nor executive privileges belong in the discussion. (Quite frankly, I'd think very little of any President who didn't test the limits of hir authority in an attempt to get what se thought was best for America...regardless of what I thought of it. Such an individual would be a weak, unfit leader.)

Trump has expressed a desire to silence criticism, which is step two in the dictator's handbook...a shot across the bow of the Constitution.

And because the Constitution won't allow him to silence those segments of the media that he doesn't like he's attempting to circumvent it and minimize our First Amendment guaranteed freedoms of speech and of the press by incessantly demonizing their proponents...a lesser shot, but a shot nonetheless.

I'm no pollyanna. I understand editorial policies and priorities and slanting news, and I support Tump's right to object and fight back, but NOT in the manner in which he's doing it.

Do you seriously believe that everything published about Trump in the Washington Post is false while everything that comes across Fox News is fact?

Originally Posted By: JM Hanes

The President who said,"The buck stops here," is also the President who wrote to Washington Post critic, Paul Hume:
Quote:
"I've just read your lousy review of Margaret's concert. I've come to the conclusion that you are an 'eight ulcer man on four ulcer pay.' It seems to me that you are a frustrated old man who wishes he could have been successful. When you write such poppy-cock as was in the back section of the paper you work for it shows conclusively that you're off the beam and at least four of your ulcers are at work. Some day I hope to meet you. When that happens you'll need a new nose, a lot of beefsteak for black eyes, and perhaps a supporter below! Pegler, a gutter snipe, is a gentleman alongside you. I hope you'll accept that statement as a worse insult than a reflection on your ancestry.".

Then there's his letter to Dean Acheson:
[quote]In the salty letter, a copy of which was obtained by The Post, Truman rails against newspaper writers and columnists, calling them “more dangerous” than street walkers.

“Presidents and the members of their Cabinets and their staff members have been slandered and misrepresented since George Washington,” Truman wrote in the hand-written diatribe. “When the press is friendly to an administration the opposition has been lied about and treated to the excrescence [sic] of paid prostitutes of the mind.”

And do you also seriously believe that HST's PRIVATE correspondence rises to the level of Trump's attacking the opposition media using every mic that's held in front of his mouth as a weapon?

A father's irate response to a critic who panned his daughter... C'mon!

And in a different vein, I respect people's right to object to unfavorable Supreme Court decisions, and I respect their right to object to the makeup of the Court that handed down those decisions, but when they take issue with the wisdom that resulted in the makeup of that Court, it's another shot across the bow of the Constitution.

It's not as obvious as Trump's attacks, but it's nonetheless indicative of an underlying, very dangerous to America rejection of one of the principles on which America was founded.
_________________________
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory Of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire

Top
#51584 - 04/16/19 02:04 AM Re: Maybe 45 needs to end it all with a .45 [Re: JM Hanes]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: JM Hanes
I do think it takes a lot of work to cast Trump as a Neo-Nazi cultivator, when his daughter has converted to Judaism for her husband, and Trump's approval in Israel is running at something like 90%, among other markers.

Originally Posted By: JM Hanes
He recognized Jerusalem as the Israeli capital, which other Presidents had shilly shallied around....

Of course Trump's anti-semitic!

If he truly embraced his daughter's Judaism he'd adamantly reject Neo-Nazis rather than coddle them and give them credibility. "Some good people," indeed.

And if he respected it, he wouldn't have tried to misuse her Rabbi's good intentions to his advantage.

I'll guess that the only thing about her marriage he approves of is that she married into a family of slime-buckets that rivals his own.

Previous Presidents have not "shilly shallied" in not recognizing Jerusalem as the capital of Israel, rather they've stood fast with the international community, and rather than being the result of thoughtful consideration of the issue, Trump's moving the American Embassy was in all likelihood a birthday present to his daughter with locking down a large portion of the Jewish vote as its ultimate goal.

Of course Trump's approval rating in Israel is sky high; he's given them what they've wanted more than anything.

Orthodox (at the least) Jews, both Americans and Israelis who've maintained their American citizenship, do NOT vote for America! They vote for Israel, and they'd vote for the Frankenstein monster if it ran on a "move the embassy" platform.

Their support for Trump even as he's tolerated if not helped foster a culture of anti-Semitism is appalling and to their GREAT discredit.
_________________________
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory Of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire

Top
Page 3 of 4 < 1 2 3 4 >

Moderator:  alternaut, cyn