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#50648 - 12/10/18 07:14 PM Re: Flu Vaccine Information needed [Re: deniro]
deniro Offline


Registered: 09/09/09
Ok, here's my amateur analysis.

Jenny McCarthy M.D. can't accept that she would have a child less beautiful, less perfect, than her. Therefore someone has to be blamed. The search for a scapegoat begins. Someone must have poisoned her. Or the child. Hmm. Click. Then she believes that she is the only one in her predicament, which more charitable people would never consider a predicament.

There's an old quote by someone (Cicero?) that to be ignorant of what happened before you were born is to remain a child.

And then there's the old celebrity takes up a cause thing.
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#50651 - 12/11/18 12:21 AM Re: Flu Vaccine Information needed [Re: deniro]
ryck Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Okanagan Valley
Originally Posted By: deniro
You mean Jenny McCarthy, M.D.?

No. I mean Jenny McCarthy, the actress, who wrote a book about how she knew better than the doctors and claims to have healed her son of autism. This one.

Originally Posted By: deniro
Ok, here's my amateur analysis.

Jenny McCarthy M.D. can't accept.......

I am unable to locate any Jenny McCarthy M.D.


Edited by ryck (12/11/18 12:43 AM)
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#50874 - 01/08/19 11:03 PM Re: Flu Vaccine Information needed [Re: grelber]
grelber Offline


Registered: 08/05/09
Loc: North of 49th ||
Following up on earlier discussion, this article might be of interest:

Universal Influenza Vaccines: Progress in Achieving Broad Cross-Protection in Vivo

Or go directly to the journal:
American Journal of Epidemiology 2018; 187 (12): 2603-2614.

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#50966 - 01/20/19 12:02 AM Re: Flu Vaccine Information needed [Re: grelber]
grelber Offline


Registered: 08/05/09
Loc: North of 49th ||

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#50968 - 01/20/19 01:37 AM Re: Flu Vaccine Information needed [Re: grelber]
ryck Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Okanagan Valley
Terrific piece...thanks for posting it.

The incredible irony in all of this is that so many of the anti-vaxxers, given they now have children, were likely vaccinated as children. So, they have neither experienced the diseases nor seen the ravages of the diseases that their parents witnessed. One of the readers, an M. Morris, said it best:

“Having spent the last 20 years living in Vietnam where vaccination against childhood diseases only became widely available in the last 15 - 20 years, I have met so many adults living with the consequences of polio, measles, and meningitis. Metal body braces, limb braces, partial or full blindness, deafness, paralysis, reduced mental capacity, dramatic skin scarring... these diseases have haunted so many lives, long after their resolution. And the after-effects are still visible on a daily basis. Perhaps this is why parents are so diligent in vaccinating their children.”


Edited by ryck (01/20/19 01:39 AM)
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#50971 - 01/20/19 07:12 AM Re: Flu Vaccine Information needed [Re: ryck]
grelber Offline


Registered: 08/05/09
Loc: North of 49th ||
Originally Posted By: ryck
... they have neither experienced the diseases nor seen the ravages of the diseases that their parents witnessed


Since the great influx of vaccines in the '50s and '60s and the concomitant diminution of the plethora of childhood diseases, there are multiple generations which likely have never heard and could not answer the questions posed via "sick jokes" related to same which abounded at the time, especially in grade school. For example:
Q: What has a head and can't swim? A: An iron lung.

When the nuclear-powered submarine Thresher unexplainedly went down with its crew off Cape Cod in 1963, that got superseded by:
Q: What's gray and can't swim? A: The Thresher.

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#51139 - 02/21/19 12:33 PM Re: Flu Vaccine Information needed [Re: ryck]
ryck Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Okanagan Valley
Originally Posted By: ryck
The incredible irony in all of this is that so many of the anti-vaxxers, given they now have children, were likely vaccinated as children.

And now the children of the anti-vaxxers are thinking more rationally than their parents. Three cheers for them.


Edited by ryck (02/21/19 12:34 PM)
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#51142 - 02/21/19 04:04 PM Re: Flu Vaccine Information needed [Re: ryck]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
My beef is NOT with vaccinations per se, but with the process that rushes them to market without adequate, and I mean maybe even generations, test periods.

If I got it as a kid and it hasn't been discredited in the many years that have passed since then, I"m OK with it, but I'll never get the picture of the thalidomide baby I knew by sight years ago, who flaunted her disability with sleeveless dresses, out of my head.
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#51144 - 02/22/19 07:46 AM Re: Flu Vaccine Information needed [Re: artie505]
ryck Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Okanagan Valley
I'm not sure that the awful thalidomide tragedy quite equates with vaccinations, even from the point of rushing to market. Thalidomide was a sedative that some doctors started prescribing for a use it was not intended - relieving morning sickness. The consequence of this misuse was horrific.

And the vaccinations for diseases that are popping up again after being eradicated, such as measles, definitely conform with any definition of a long test period.

My problem with the anti-vaxxers is that they seem to think their beliefs make it okay for them to foist a danger onto others. i.e. "Even though my child is not vaccinated, he or she should still be allowed to attend school."

I'm willing to bet that any anti-vaxxer with a child who has a peanut allergy, or who becomes ill from scents, is okay with the laws that don't allow other children to bring peanut butter sandwiches to school or which prevent teachers from wearing perfume.


Edited by ryck (02/22/19 07:58 AM)
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#51164 - 02/23/19 08:52 AM Re: Flu Vaccine Information needed [Re: grelber]
grelber Offline


Registered: 08/05/09
Loc: North of 49th ||
A recent commentary, To Maintain Trust in Science, Lose the Peer Review, adds a bit more depth to the discussion. Among other things,

"Social Media Didn't Create Antivaxxers
"... The modern antivaccine movement was not started on Facebook or Twitter, but by a peer-reviewed study published in the Lancet, one of the world's leading medical journals. Even as the harm of this fraudulent study became clear, it took more than a decade for the journal to retract it."

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#51177 - 02/23/19 04:38 PM Re: Flu Vaccine Information needed [Re: grelber]
ryck Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Okanagan Valley
I believe vaccinations should be mandatory, the same as many other pieces of safety legislation....seat belts, et cetera. And, I become an even more staunch believer when I read things like this mother's story.


Edited by ryck (02/23/19 04:39 PM)
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#51239 - 03/02/19 11:06 AM Re: Flu Vaccine Information needed [Re: grelber]
grelber Offline


Registered: 08/05/09
Loc: North of 49th ||
Y'all be wantin' to read this fairly definitive treatise:

Michael Kinch.
Between Hope and Fear : A History of Vaccines and Human Immunity.
New York: Pegasus Books, 2018.
ISBN 978-1-68177-751-1
pp xviii + 334
US$27.95 / CDN$36.95

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#51279 - 03/05/19 11:15 PM Re: Flu Vaccine Information needed [Re: grelber]
grelber Offline


Registered: 08/05/09
Loc: North of 49th ||
Once more, with feeling:

One More Time, With Big Data: Measles Vaccine Doesn’t Cause Autism

which references the study (open access = free article), Measles, Mumps, Rubella Vaccination and Autism: A Nationwide Cohort Study, in the Annals of Internal Medicine.

(Take that, Jenny McCarthy! mad )

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#51296 - 03/10/19 01:15 AM Re: Flu Vaccine Information needed [Re: grelber]
grelber Offline


Registered: 08/05/09
Loc: North of 49th ||

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#51297 - 03/10/19 07:03 AM Re: Flu Vaccine Information needed [Re: grelber]
ryck Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Okanagan Valley
Bang on......and, of course, the Aerie-head Pumpkin in the White House is on the side of the anti-vaxxers. From a CNN piece written by Michael D'Antonio:

"Trump first weighed in on vaccines in 2012 on Twitter, writing, "Massive combined inoculations to small children is the cause for big increase in autism...." Then, he tweeted two months later, "Autism rates through the roof--why doesn't the Obama administration do something about doctor-inflicted autism."

And he tweeted these falsehoods despite the fact that countless of scientific studies have concluded that there is no link between vaccines and autism.

The danger, of course, is that Trump is eroding public confidence in authorities like the Centers for Disease Control, which strongly recommend vaccination. And no number of CDC bulletins will undo the damage that he has done."

As your link concludes, we need a vaccine against stupidity.


Edited by ryck (03/10/19 07:08 AM)
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#51299 - 03/10/19 04:54 PM Re: Flu Vaccine Information needed [Re: ryck]
grelber Offline


Registered: 08/05/09
Loc: North of 49th ||
Originally Posted By: ryck
...we need a vaccine against stupidity.

For those afflicted a nice plate of BSE-infected ragout would do the trick. tongue

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#51315 - 03/12/19 09:46 AM Re: Flu Vaccine Information needed [Re: ryck]
Virtual1 Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Iowa
Originally Posted By: ryck
As your link concludes, we need a vaccine against stupidity.


I think those are called Darwin Awards
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#51321 - 03/12/19 03:17 PM Re: Flu Vaccine Information needed [Re: Virtual1]
joemikeb Online
Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas
L.O.L. V1, you have been missed! Welcome back.
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#51522 - 04/11/19 10:55 AM Re: Flu Vaccine Information needed [Re: ryck]
Alam Offline


Registered: 04/09/19
"And he tweeted these falsehoods despite the fact that countless of scientific studies have concluded that there is no link between vaccines and autism."

I am shocked! wink

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#51623 - 05/01/19 01:06 PM Re: Vaccine Information [Re: grelber]
grelber Offline


Registered: 08/05/09
Loc: North of 49th ||

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#51624 - 05/01/19 02:17 PM Re: Flu Vaccine Information needed [Re: grelber]
joemikeb Online
Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas
Oh joy! Another shot to add to the list of booster and or improved vaccines I aim suppose to get. Makes me think of the "shot clinic" when I was in the military getting ready to go to Southeast Asia.
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#51625 - 05/02/19 01:01 AM Re: Vaccine Information [Re: joemikeb]
grelber Offline


Registered: 08/05/09
Loc: North of 49th ||
Originally Posted By: joemikeb
Another shot to add to the list of booster and or improved vaccines ....

Not if you're in the age-exempt cohort (as described in the article and as you would seem to be).
The definitive way to determine your immune status for any virus-caused disease is to have your antibody titer vis-à-vis same determined (ie, simple blood test).*

(* Back in the '60s, when I was exposed to mumps as an adult — not a nice disease in males — I had my antibody titer determined and found that I was immune, which meant that I had been exposed to mumps as a child even though I had never been visibly ill with same [while my sister had a full-blown bout of mumps].
To round out this aside, antibody titers determined in the past decade indicate that I still have immunity to mumps and measles, the latter also must have presented in childhood with very mild, if any, disease symptoms of which I have no memory.)

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#51628 - 05/02/19 06:30 AM Re: Vaccine Information [Re: grelber]
Ira L Offline


Registered: 08/13/09
Loc: California
Are you saying that your immunity was the result of mild exposure and not by vaccination?
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#51629 - 05/02/19 10:29 AM Re: Vaccine Information [Re: Ira L]
grelber Offline


Registered: 08/05/09
Loc: North of 49th ||
Originally Posted By: Ira L
Are you saying that your immunity was the result of mild exposure and not by vaccination?

Certainly exposure (without qualification) but the disease in both cases was obviously mild, possibly without visible symptoms (which was certainly the case with the mumps and not possible for me to confirm with respect to measles, since anyone who might have witnessed same is no longer with us).
Epidemiologists have commented that virtually everyone pre-1957 had measles to one degree or another because it was so prevalent at the time. (Things apparently went to hell in a handbasket after that.)

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#51675 - 05/09/19 02:49 AM Re: Vaccine Information [Re: grelber]
grelber Offline


Registered: 08/05/09
Loc: North of 49th ||

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