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#49932 - 09/10/18 03:08 PM Setting Up New User Account
Douglas Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Seattle, WA
I have been trouble shooting an issue with Apple Tech Support. Not having much luck in finding the issue, it was suggested that I create a 'test' user account to see if the issue presents. I created a test user account and the issue is not present in the Test Account. The tech said I should transfer everything to the test user account, rename it, make it the Administrator account and then delete my current user account.

The tech did not say, but I am assuming that I should move files over a few at a time, until the issue presents itself and then narrow it down to find out what file/files is causing the issue.

Is there a specific methodology to transfer files from my existing user account to the test user account? I'm assuming moving my 'Documents Folder' files is reasonably easy. What I am concerned about, and don't know how to do, is moving the contacts of my '~Library' folder over to the test account. What about the Music and Photo folders?

Thanks in advance,


Edited by Douglas (09/10/18 03:13 PM)
Edit Reason: Add more info.

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#49939 - 09/11/18 09:30 AM Re: Setting Up New User Account [Re: Douglas]
Ira L Online


Registered: 08/13/09
Loc: California
It may not be as simple as drag and drop, since ownership is involved. I did a quick search and there seem to be two ways, both involving changing permissions in some way. The second one below uses the "Shared" folder in the "Users" folder. The first one here uses "Get Info" on a folder to change ownership.

#1:
•From your main account open finder and locate the user account for your [some name] files. (Macintosh HD/users/[some name] files)
•Right or control click on that folder and select Get Info.
•Under sharing and permissions click on the lock icon to unlock permissions. Give admin password when asked.
•Once unlocked, click on the + button and add your test account id to the user names
•Set your permissions to Read & Write.
•Click on the gear icon and make your main id the "owner" of the folder.
•Click on the gear again and apply to enclosed items.
•Click on the lock icon to re-lock the folder.

The above will definitely work on music and photos stuff. Not sure about ~Library, but in theory…

#2:
Move files to the Shared folder:
•With the Finder active, from the Go menu, select Go to Folder....
In the window that opens, in the "Go to the folder:" field, type /Users/ and click Go.
•In the window that opens, look for the folder named Shared. Drag your files onto this folder so that you can access them from the other macOS account.
•Log into the other account and retrieve your files:
•From the Apple menu, log out of your current macOS account. When the login screen appears, select the macOS account to which you want to transfer the files, and log into it.
•In the new account, with the Finder active, from the Go menu, select Go to Folder....
•In the window that opens, in the "Go to the folder:" field, type /Users/ and click Go.
•In the window that opens, look for the folder named Shared. Drag your files out of this folder to finish transferring them to the new account.

The big question again is will this work with ~Library? Can you share that folder?

Let us know what works after all is said and done.
_________________________
On a Mac since 1984.
Currently: 27" iMacs, Macbook Air, macOS 10.14.x,; iPhones, iPods and iPads galore!

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#49942 - 09/11/18 04:58 PM Re: Setting Up New User Account [Re: Ira L]
Douglas Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Seattle, WA
This looks daunting. I'm going to have work up my courage to give it a try. May just find a Mac consultant and pay them to do it.

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#49943 - 09/11/18 05:26 PM Re: Setting Up New User Account [Re: Douglas]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Since the Apple tech support person with whom you dealt didn't even understand how a test user account, one of the most basic troubleshooting tools there is, works, I'll question hir competence up and down the line.

Have you posted your issue here?
_________________________
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory Of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire

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#49945 - 09/12/18 07:17 AM Re: Setting Up New User Account [Re: artie505]
Douglas Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Seattle, WA
Yes I posted the issue here but no solution was found. Then went to Apple forums and no solution so went to Apple Tech Support.

What is it that Apple got wrong with the test user account?

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#49949 - 09/13/18 09:01 AM Re: Setting Up New User Account [Re: Douglas]
Virtual1 Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Iowa
This would take a few minutes for any mac tech to move / swap homes and change ownership. But I don't know if I'd want to try to walk someone through this process over the phone, let alone in a forum.
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I work for the Department of Redundancy Department

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#49952 - 09/13/18 01:49 PM Re: Setting Up New User Account [Re: Virtual1]
joemikeb Online

Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas
Originally Posted By: Virtual1
This would take a few minutes for any mac tech to move / swap homes and change ownership. But I don't know if I'd want to try to walk someone through this process over the phone, let alone in a forum.

Agreed! When I was training support engineers at Microsoft getting caught walking a customer through an operation like over the phone that would result in the support engineer immediately being walked to the door with no questions asked and no appeal and never permitted back on property. The risk of a misunderstanding or an error wiping out months or years of suddenly extremely valuable even irreplaceable work is simply too great to tolerate. It is incredible how quickly an error resulting in lost data can add 3 to 9 zeros to the value of a set of data, and a hungry lawyer can easily add 3 more.

In person at the Genius Desk or on site with the customer is another matter, but I would still be careful who I showed how to do it. While on this topic it users are remineded of the FineTunedMac FAQs FineTunedMac FAQs Rules of Conduct.
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joemikeb • moderator

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#49955 - 09/13/18 11:10 PM Re: Setting Up New User Account [Re: Douglas]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: Douglas
Yes I posted the issue here but no solution was found. Then went to Apple forums and no solution so went to Apple Tech Support.

What is it that Apple got wrong with the test user account?

V1 and joemike having made an excellent point, I'll get back to basics.

The Apple tech knew that a test user account is an excellent diagnostic tool, but blew dealing with the diagnosis: I imagine that there may be reasons to move the entire contents of a user account to a new account, but as you realized, in your instance it would simply perpetuate your problem in a new home, not correct it, and I'm shocked that an Apple (no less) tech would blithely suggest that you migrate the entire contents of your user account to a new one as if it were a simple drag & drop operation.

The traditional approach to dealing with a problem that's rooted in your user account is to move items from your account to your desktop until moving something corrects the problem.

Unfortunately, though, to the best of my knowledge, Apple has kindly hogtied us, and likely items such as ~/Library/Application Support and ~/Library/Preferences can't be moved in bulk, which leaves you with a potentially huge job.

If you link us to your original post which details your problem, the new knowledge that it's rooted in your user account may enable somebody to make a helpful suggestion.
_________________________
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory Of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire

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#49956 - 09/14/18 05:49 AM Re: Setting Up New User Account [Re: artie505]
joemikeb Online

Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas
If — and I realize that is a big IF — you have a backup, be it a clone or Time Machine, the data can easily be moved in bulk through the use of Migration Assistant. The problem with moving everything in bulk is that too often you move the original problem to the new account as well.

If you have Time Machine backups and know with some certainty when the issue first presented itself you can go back to a point in time prior to its appearance and restore your system from that point. I have done that and it worked well. Thanks to iCloud I lost almost no data in the process!
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joemikeb • moderator

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#49962 - 09/14/18 05:48 PM Re: Setting Up New User Account [Re: joemikeb]
Douglas Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Seattle, WA
I do have a clone on an external HD from about 3 or 4 months ago that does not have the issue with Numbers files.

I was going to re-apply the Combo 10.12.6 update. Downloaded and started to install and go an error message saying it couldn't be installed because volume doesn't meet requirements. A Google search indicated this was a know problem. Ran DU and it said everything was ok. Also ran TechToolPro and that showed no problems either.

Any solutions to re-apply the Combo 10.12.6 update?

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#49966 - 09/15/18 01:01 AM Re: Setting Up New User Account [Re: Douglas]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: Douglas
I was going to re-apply the Combo 10.12.6 update. Downloaded and started to install and go an error message saying it couldn't be installed because volume doesn't meet requirements. A Google search indicated this was a know problem. Ran DU and it said everything was ok. Also ran TechToolPro and that showed no problems either.

Any solutions to re-apply the Combo 10.12.6 update?

I've been entertaining a theory (which I won't be able to either confirm or refute until sometime after Mojave has been released) that Apple has "fixed" Combos so they can't be rerun after a later system, Safari too, I think, update has been run.

My guess is that the change is fallout from the 10.6.8 (Snowy) Combo which reverted Safari to an earlier version without deleting the receipt for the later version, so it didn't show up in Software Update as available. (There were other post 10.6.8 system updates which I always reran after rerunning the Combo without ever being certain that it was necessary.)

I'm able to rerun the 10.13.6 Combo, but if my theory is correct it's because Apple hasn't released any system or Safari updates subsequent to its release.
_________________________
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory Of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire

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#49969 - 09/15/18 01:44 PM Re: Setting Up New User Account [Re: artie505]
Douglas Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Seattle, WA
I called Apple Tech and was told that the Combo Update will not work because there was a Security Update after the Combo Update and Apple will not go back and 'fix' the Combo Update to reflect the newer Security Update.

I have narrowed down the time line. I did a clone of my system, which does not have the issue, in March 2018 and my initial post here was June 10 so that is when the problem started.

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#49970 - 09/16/18 12:31 AM Re: Setting Up New User Account [Re: Douglas]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: Douglas
I called Apple Tech and was told that the Combo Update will not work because there was a Security Update after the Combo Update and Apple will not go back and 'fix' the Combo Update to reflect the newer Security Update.

If that's authoritative it confirms my theory, but I don't understand why Apple can't write code into the Combos to delete the records of subsequent updates that prevent Software Update from knowing they're once again available for the installation in question.

Apple has deprived us of a tried and true troubleshooting tool for what seems like an awfully petty and easy to overcome reason.
_________________________
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory Of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire

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#49975 - 09/16/18 01:59 PM Re: Setting Up New User Account [Re: artie505]
Douglas Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Seattle, WA
Here is my latest attempt to fix. I had an empty partition on my external HD so I cloned by system, which had a Test User Acct, to the partition. Booted into the clone and started deleting stuff that was in the clone but not in the Test Acct. Deleted all music, photos, documents(except Numbers files) and all 3rd party apps using a removal app to make sure I got everything.

Periodically logged out and back in and every 3 or 4 logout I rebooted.

Deleted all folders in ~Library theat were not in Test Library. Rebooted and problem still exists. I even compared the invisible folders in Test Acct to Clone and deleted folders. Also deleted ~Library/Cache and Preferences on Clone. Rebooted and problem still there. I deleted a lot more stuff but still can't fine the source of the problem.

I've decided that I'm going to upgrade to High Sierra and see if that accomplishes anything.

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#49976 - 09/16/18 03:58 PM Re: Setting Up New User Account [Re: Douglas]
Douglas Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Seattle, WA
I erased the Clone, Sierra, on the partition on my external HD, over wrote twice. I cloned my HD with Sierra to the partition again. Then I installed High Sierra on that clone. Everything went well got my account all set up and ready to go. Hesitantly looked at my folder with all the Numbers files. Opened the folder and lo and behold all the .numbers extensions are gone, just the way it should be.

What a saga. Wished I knew what caused this in the first place but at least it's fixed.

I want to sincerely thank everyone who chipped in to try and find a solution. Thank you one and all.

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#49979 - 09/16/18 10:19 PM Re: Setting Up New User Account [Re: Douglas]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
A saga, indeed, but, finally, a happy ending. cool

Originally Posted By: Douglas
Deleted all folders in ~Library theat were not in Test Library.

An insight for hopefully unnecessary future reference: One of those files which you didn't delete because it was in both libraries may have been corrupted.

Also, you didn't mention having deleted ~/Library/Application Support...a likely suspect.

Oh, well, another unsolved mystery with a happy ending. smile

I wonder if repairing permissions would have turned the trick? tongue
_________________________
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory Of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire

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#49980 - 09/17/18 07:07 AM Re: Setting Up New User Account [Re: artie505]
Douglas Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Seattle, WA
You are correct, it could have been a corrupt file but my money is that it was something I downloaded that caused a conflict.

I actually deleted many of the Application Support folders to make the Clone the same as the Test but as you say it could have been a corrupt file.

I did repair permissions along the way and that did not fix the issue either. As you say an unresolved happy ending.

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