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#49644 - 08/03/18 09:26 AM New used iMac shakedown cruise
deniro Offline


Registered: 09/09/09
I thought I would share my experience using and evaluating my new (used) imac which I bought from Mac of All Trades for $499. I have 90 days to return it, so if anything to check comes to mind let me know.

As advertised, it's in excellent shape. Except for some nicks and smudges it looks new.

I already had a Matias Quiet Pro keyboard, which the Mac refused to recognize until I installed USB Overdrive. Another strike against Matias.

Migration Assistant took from one to two hours. I was reluctant to use it because I didn't want to bring over any "bad files". In fact, after the info transferred I decided to move it into a second User account. So I'm trying to figure out how to merge these accounts or how to pick one over the other. I started updating the built-in account. After using migration assistant, I started using the transferred account as the default. Moving information manually might have been a wiser move. I even emailed Mac of All Trades to see if I could restore the factory settings for this Mac but they said no. They were surprisingly ignorant and unhelpful.

Last night I noticed a 4x4 inch or so yellow smudge on the monitor. I haven't seen anything like that since the TV my folks used to have in the 1980s or 1990s that would get those burn-in spots which came from, I think, my brother and me playing video games on the TV. Colored spots would show up, then disappear.

But it's much better having software from my old Mac than trying to download software from the Apple store, which I find almost unusable. As I have in the past, I went through the Apple ID cha-cha, which included iTunes and the iTunes store. Absurd. Trillion dollar company, indeed. The only software I had to pay to upgrade was 1Password. There's a company that's gone from great to terrible. Unbelievable what they make you go through. It's a good product but steep at $65 for the standalone, nonsubscription version. If there's an alternative that doesn't make you jump through hoops, get it.

The biggest obstacle for me is getting used to the small text. The display defaults to 1920 x 1080. Although there are other choices (1600x1900, 1344x756, 1280x720), they are unusuable because at those sizes the text is very jaggy and disproportionate. I thought Windows was bad with this problem, but Mac has it too. I have to wear glasses when I read and use the computer, but the text is still too small. I wonder if 3M makes some kind of magnifier. I found options to enlarge screen text on the desktop and I have Tinker Tool though it doesn't seem to have worked. On Firefox, I had to override web pages and use my own text preferences, which I ususally don't like to do. I still found myself clicking the plus sign to enlarge the screen.
_________________________
OS X 10.11.6
iMac 21.5", Mid 2011
2.8 GHz Intel Core i7, 24 GB
AMD Radeon HD 6770M
Using Apple computers since 1980

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#49646 - 08/03/18 09:48 AM Re: New used iMac shakedown cruise [Re: deniro]
deniro Offline


Registered: 09/09/09
Startup was quite slow until I disabled fonts, turned off Spotlight, turned off animation, turned off Dashboard, turned off (I think) Mission Control, which was new to me, as was Notifications—ugh, this has to be least welcome addition. Apple has been borrowing from Windows by nagging you. Fortunately Notifications comes with a Do Not Disturb sign.

After reading complaints about interface changes, I was prepared for the worst. But it's not all bad. I don't mind the flat look, but I dislike playing hide and seek with options, such as the disappearing menu bar. That is a dumb change. Pointless. In fact, it really discourages me from using the full screen, this great big 21 inch screen I have now. Sometimes when I use full screen in a program, I can't get out of it, such as iTunes. The program switcher (option-tab) didn't take me out of iTunes nor did clicking on Finder in the Dock. Moral: Don't use full screen. I couldn't get FinderPop to work, and that was my navigator for years. So I guess the dock is my launcher now, lacking FinderPop, as in Windows 7.

Sometimes programs open behind the current window instead of in front of. That's puzzling and annoying. Sometimes programs seem to have quit but are still in the dock. Cut and paste doesn't always work but that is probably the fault of particular software rather than the OS. ClipMenu still works and has a fork in Clipy.

I was disappointed that iCal includes Muslim holidays, and there is only one option: turn on all holidays on turn off all holidays. Another strike against Apple. I may look for another calendar if it can send reminders through Mail. That was how I organized appointments on my old Mac. I had iCal send me email reminders through Mail. That was a nice feature. It's good to have Mail working again. I've always liked it...when it works.

Downloads are large and installing them is slow. Here again I feel like I'm watching the Windows cursor while it installs updates, the kind of thing I want to avoid if I build my own computer. Much else on this iMac is acceptably snappy. Onyx is surprisingly quick. I remember years ago waiting something like twenty minutes for permissions to be fixed.

Networking settings transferred without a hitch, as did printing settings. Both have worked fine without error. This is also a positive change from years passed.
_________________________
OS X 10.11.6
iMac 21.5", Mid 2011
2.8 GHz Intel Core i7, 24 GB
AMD Radeon HD 6770M
Using Apple computers since 1980

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#49647 - 08/03/18 10:05 AM Re: New used iMac shakedown cruise [Re: deniro]
deniro Offline


Registered: 09/09/09
Jacks, external drives, RAM:

Thunderbolt is new to me. I also have four USB 2 jacks and one Firewall 800. I'm quite happy about having these plentiful, fast (to me) connections. My Matias keyboard has two USB ports but they're not very good. Another strike against Matias.

I'm looking at hard drives for backup. Any opinions? Which port should be used with a backup drive: USB 2, Firewire 800, or Thunderbolt? I would probably get a mechanical backup drive, not an SSD. I'm not sure. It has to be bootable. On my old iMac I used SuperDuper to clone the hard drive to an OWC Firewire 400 drive, then did incremental backups. That drive booted the OS with no problem. I dislike Time Machine and never used it. I dislike the idea of a constant backup in which your hard drive is always connected, always running, reading and writing data. I would rather keep it in another room without so much use. In all these years I've only had one hard drive go bad, an external Fantom. SuperDuper has always done what I've wanted without problems, and I see no reason to change, though using Windows 7 taught me how handy disc images and ISO files can be.

Anyone have an opinion about the speed and quality of OWC drives versus other brands? I've bought a lot from OWC over the years but I sometimes wonder if there are better, faster products.

What about OWC RAM versus Crucial RAM? Crucial is out of stock of the RAM that works for this iMac, but I'm wondering if I even need more RAM. I have 8 GB now. Would another 8 or 16 GBs give me a noticeable improvement?
_________________________
OS X 10.11.6
iMac 21.5", Mid 2011
2.8 GHz Intel Core i7, 24 GB
AMD Radeon HD 6770M
Using Apple computers since 1980

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#49648 - 08/03/18 10:25 AM Re: New used iMac shakedown cruise [Re: deniro]
jchuzi Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: New York State
Thunderbolt is, by far, your fastest choice for an external. I have two OWC SSDs plugged into an OWC thunderbolt dock. Both have been fine, and for me, incremental backups via Carbon Copy Cloner take about 5 minutes. The SSDs also boot much faster than HDDs, as I can personally attest, because I also have a HDD clone.

When I bought my iMac, I also bought OWC RAM and have not had a hint of a problem. IMHO, add as much RAM as your machine and budget allow. RAM is relatively cheap and well worth the price.
_________________________
Jon

OS 10.14.5, iMac Retina 5K 27-inch, late 2014, 3.5 GHz Intel Core i5, 1 TB fusion drive, 16 GB RAM, Epson SureColor P600, Photoshop CC, Lightroom CC, MS Office 365

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#49649 - 08/03/18 12:55 PM Re: New used iMac shakedown cruise [Re: deniro]
joemikeb Offline
Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas
Originally Posted By: deniro
I even emailed Mac of All Trades to see if I could restore the factory settings for this Mac but they said no. They were surprisingly ignorant and unhelpful.

Restoring to the original configuration as it left the factory is doable, but it requires a copy of MacOS 10.6.6 (the original OS that shipped with a mid 2011 iMac) and that would be hard to find — and Apple is unlikely to be of help in that regard. However, MacOS 10.
11 was correctly installed you can easily go back to a clean install of El Capitan. Just boot from the Recovery Drive — Power down then hold ⌘-R while booting. From there you can run Disk Utility to erase the hard drive followed by running the Installer from the Recovery Drive.
[quote-deniro]The biggest obstacle for me is getting used to the small text. The display defaults to 1920 x 1080. Although there are other choices (1600x1900, 1344x756, 1280x720), they are unusuable because at those sizes the text is very jaggy and disproportionate. I thought Windows was bad with this problem, but Mac has it too. I have to wear glasses when I read and use the computer, but the text is still too small. I wonder if 3M makes some kind of magnifier. I found options to enlarge screen text on the desktop and I have Tinker Tool though it doesn't seem to have worked. On Firefox, I had to override web pages and use my own text preferences, which I ususally don't like to do. I still found myself clicking the plus sign to enlarge the screen.[/quote]
  1. Be sure you have the correct version of TinkerTool
  2. TinkerTool only changes the System fonts and some apps.
  3. What you see on a web page is controlled by HTML, CSS, and settings in the browser itself. I am not familiar with Firefox, but in Safari there is an accessibility setting to "Never use Font sizes smaller than xx pt" Surely there is a similar setting in Firefox.

Originally Posted By: deniro
I was disappointed that iCal includes Muslim holidays, and there is only one option: turn on all holidays on turn off all holidays. Another strike against Apple. I may look for another calendar if it can send reminders through Mail. That was how I organized appointments on my old Mac. I had iCal send me email reminders through Mail. That was a nice feature. It's good to have Mail working again. I've always liked it...when it works.


Holidays is and always has been a calendar that you subscribe to, just as you can subscribe to a calendar with your favorite sports team schedule or even to a calendar posted by your church or other organization. The default Holidays calendar is for the United States and includes Federal holidays as well as holidays for major religious groups including Christian, Jewish, and Islam. If you want ONLY Federal Holidays you csn probably find what you are looking for here. These can easily be added to Calendar (another change — iCal is now known as Calendar.)

Originally Posted By: deniro
Anyone have an opinion about the speed and quality of OWC drives versus other brands? I've bought a lot from OWC over the years but I sometimes wonder if there are better, faster products.

The major speed factor is determined by
  1. the specific drive mechanism used in the enclosure and in most cases you have no idea who builds the drive in the enclosure. Which is why I buy the enclosure and drive separately.
  2. the drive RPM
  3. Internationally recognized standards for the SATA interface in the enclosure (3 Gbps or 6 Gbps)
  4. The interface between the enclosure and the computer (Thunderbolt 3, Thunderbolt 2, USB C, USB 3, Firewire 800, Firewire 400, USB, USB 2, USB 1 — from fastest to slowest).
  5. With USB C and Thunderbolt 3 the speed of the particular port on your iMac
    • USB — 480 Mbps
    • Firewire — 800 Mbps
    • Thunderbolt 1 — up to 10 Gbps
  6. With Thunderbolt the length and quality (a.k.a. cost) of the connecting cable

Personally I am more inclined to consider reliability over speed as the difference in speed of similarly configured drive and enclosures has very little, if any, significant impact for a backup drive. I have found OWC enclosures to be rugged and reliable (I have never had one fail) and I pair them with either HGST or Toshiba drives for their reliability.
Originally Posted By: deniro
What about OWC RAM versus Crucial RAM? Crucial is out of stock of the RAM that works for this iMac, but I'm wondering if I even need more RAM. I have 8 GB now. Would another 8 or 16 GBs give me a noticeable improvement?


On the current production Macs 8 GB is the minimum configuration and for many models 16 is the maximum. It really depends on what kind of work you will be doing, but looking at "memory pressure" and "swap used" in Activity Monitor on my MacBook Pro with 16 GB of memory, I have never seen "Memory Pressure" any thing but Green and "Swap Used" is very often "0". 👌

As for as OWC brand memory goes, like their enclosures I have never had one of their DIMMs fail.


Edited by joemikeb (08/03/18 02:32 PM)
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joemikeb • moderator

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#49650 - 08/03/18 02:46 PM Re: New used iMac shakedown cruise [Re: joemikeb]
deniro Offline


Registered: 09/09/09
I didn't know I had to subscribe to a calendar.

Can you show me an example of a OWC enclosure that you would use?
_________________________
OS X 10.11.6
iMac 21.5", Mid 2011
2.8 GHz Intel Core i7, 24 GB
AMD Radeon HD 6770M
Using Apple computers since 1980

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#49652 - 08/03/18 03:13 PM Re: New used iMac shakedown cruise [Re: deniro]
jchuzi Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: New York State
I have two HDDs in the OWC Mercury Elite Pro Dual Performance RAID Enclosure and two SSDs in the OWC Drive Dock Dual Drive Bay Solution. Both work well for me.
_________________________
Jon

OS 10.14.5, iMac Retina 5K 27-inch, late 2014, 3.5 GHz Intel Core i5, 1 TB fusion drive, 16 GB RAM, Epson SureColor P600, Photoshop CC, Lightroom CC, MS Office 365

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#49653 - 08/03/18 03:59 PM Re: New used iMac shakedown cruise [Re: joemikeb]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
deniro's Mid 2011 iMac is the earliest one that can run Internet Recovery (Computers that can be upgraded to use OS X Internet Recovery), and according to this Apple doc he can use an Option-Command-R boot to install the macOS that came with his Mac, or the version closest to it that is still available (whatever that may be).
_________________________
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory Of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire

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#49655 - 08/04/18 08:22 AM Re: New used iMac shakedown cruise [Re: deniro]
joemikeb Offline
Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas
I use the Envoy Pro Mini a genuine SSD in a near thumb drive format. Not terribly fast but faster than most hard drives and extremely convenient to carry around. I keep TechTool Pro-To-Go bootable configurations on it, in case emergency volume repairs are needed. To be truthful I haven't needed to use it in years, but I still keep it around — just in case.

I use a enclosure with an [url=https://eshop.macsales.com/item/HGST/0J22423/]HGST 1 TB 7200 RPM drive as a clone drive for my MacBook Pro. The enclosure has an off/on switch and merely switching it on triggers Carbon Copy Cloner to clone my HD. This is my favorite general purpose external enclosure.

I have a variety of OWC Express enclosures with drives from old Macs that I use for a variety of intermittent or light duty purposes. They are cheap and allow me to get added use from drives that would otherwise be discarded.

For "belt and suspenders" Time Machine drive I use a Thunderbay 4 Thunderbolt enclosure with four factory rebuilt HGST 7200 RPM drives configured as RAID 5. Virtually silent, and if one of the drives fails it can be swapped out and the data will be completely restored by the SoftRAID RAID 5 software. About as reliable as you can get.
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joemikeb • moderator

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#49656 - 08/04/18 08:58 AM Re: New used iMac shakedown cruise [Re: joemikeb]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
The links in your second paragraph should be enclosure & HGST 1 TB 7200 RPM

I'm working with my second Mercury Elite Pro mini enclosure, which replaced my first one that died of a failed USB 3 port; the new one, the USB 3 port in particular, is more solidly built than its predecessor, and I'm happy with it.

The aspect of the Mercury that I really love is that it's "reversible", i.e. its works can be installed upside down, which negates the need for twisting the short cables with which I work.


Edited by artie505 (08/04/18 03:58 PM)
Edit Reason: Correct joemike's links
_________________________
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory Of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire

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#49658 - 08/04/18 09:48 AM Re: New used iMac shakedown cruise [Re: joemikeb]
deniro Offline


Registered: 09/09/09
Would anyone like to comment on the jagged font problem?

Is it a problem or is it the norm? I read again recently the speculation that Apple started designing its OS for Retina monitors, and the rest of us can go to hell. Still, switching resolutions ought to be acceptable, otherwise why include them? In recent days I've read some interesting posts by people unhappy with font handling in the OS, the iMac, and particularly third-party monitors.

I've never had much of a problem with hard drives despite the dire warnings my whole life. I quit defragmenting and optimizing drives when I moved to OS X in the 1990s. As I said, I don't run them into the ground by using Time Machine or some other constant backup program.

I put a Crucial SSD in my Dell laptop and a Samsung SSD into my parents Dell desktop. I can't telly which is faster, but I'm probable partial to the Crucial since it was the first SSD I ever used. Wow, what a difference. I had to using mechanical drives after that. A firmware upgrade made the drive ever better. In Windows I've had trouble mounting those colorful plastic WD My Passport drives and getting Windows 7 to recognize them. Getting this to work usually involves having various services and software activated on startup.

On the Mac I have used mostly OWC drives. I don't recall any of them failing, though they seem slower than the WD drives. I will probably continue to support OWC by buying both RAM and external drive from them, probably a Firewire drive.

Other than separating the sizes into dual chips, there are differences in the RAM modules. For example:

8.0GB (2x 4GB) PC3-10600 DDR3 1333MHz SO-DIMM 204 Pin CL9 SO-DIMM Kit 51.75
8.0GB (2x 4GB) PC3-10600 DDR3 1333MHz SO-DIMM 204 Pin CL9 SO-DIMM Memory Upgrade Kit 69.99
8.0GB (2x 4GB) PC3-10600 DDR3 1333MHz SO-DIMM 204 Pin CL9 SO-DIMM Memory Upgrade Kit 69.99
8.0GB (2x 4GB) PC3-12800 DDR3L 1600MHz SO-DIMM 204 Pin CL11 Memory Upgrade Kit 67.99
8.0GB PC3-10600 DDR3 1333MHz SO-DIMM 204 Pin CL9 SO-DIMM Memory Module 74.99
8.0GB PC3-12800 DDR3L 1600MHz SO-DIMM 204 Pin CL11 SO-DIMM Memory Module 71.99

In the left column you can see the choices DDR3 v. DDR3L, 1333 MHz v. 1600 MHz, PC3-12800 v. PC3-10600.

Any opinions about that?

https://eshop.macsales.com/upgrades/imac-21-5-inch-mid-2011-2.8-ghz/memory
_________________________
OS X 10.11.6
iMac 21.5", Mid 2011
2.8 GHz Intel Core i7, 24 GB
AMD Radeon HD 6770M
Using Apple computers since 1980

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#49660 - 08/05/18 04:09 AM Re: New used iMac shakedown cruise [Re: deniro]
freelance Offline


Registered: 08/05/09
Loc: London, UK
Originally Posted By: deniro
Would anyone like to comment on the jagged font problem?


I presume you've ticked the font-smoothing box in System Preferences/General ?
_________________________
Mac Pro dual-2.4 GHz, 10.13.6, 24 Gb RAM, 250 Gb Samsung EVO SSD/Velocity Solo PCIe card, 2x3Tb Seagate HD, 1x3Tb Hitachi HD, Dell 2408WFP; Canon PIXMA iX6550; CanoScan 8800F; MacBook Air 1.8 Ghz, 8 Gb RAM, 10.14.5, 256 Gb SSD; Vodafone Home Hub/BT Wi-Fi Extender.

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#49662 - 08/05/18 08:32 AM Re: New used iMac shakedown cruise [Re: freelance]
deniro Offline


Registered: 09/09/09
Yes
_________________________
OS X 10.11.6
iMac 21.5", Mid 2011
2.8 GHz Intel Core i7, 24 GB
AMD Radeon HD 6770M
Using Apple computers since 1980

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#49663 - 08/05/18 04:33 PM Re: New used iMac shakedown cruise [Re: deniro]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
So you're experiencing the same font issue you experienced in 10.6.8 on your old iMac in 10.11.x(?) on your new one?
_________________________
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory Of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire

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#49664 - 08/05/18 06:55 PM Re: New used iMac shakedown cruise [Re: artie505]
deniro Offline


Registered: 09/09/09
Yes, in fact. I did wonder whether I might have brought some kind of bad file from the old computer until I saw so many other people on the internet complain about the same problem. At this point it's more of a norm than a problem.

I read many complaints over the weekend about all kinds of models running the OS with jagged and blurry text. The conclusion many people draw is that Apple has been tailoring its OS for their retina monitor and newer more expensive models. Many unhappy people resent being pushed to buy the most expensive computer after they have dumped thousands of dollars on a computer that essentially doesn't work. The complaints go back many years. Some people saw it in Lion.

As far as I know Apple has never addressed the problem, though there are helpful options in the OS to make changes. I have also found that Helvetica Neue works better as a default system font. Readers with jaggy text might want to play around with their font panel and look at different weights, too.

Although Apple hasn't said anything, I'm willing to grant that some head scratching and innovation are required of brainiacs to adapt an OS to increasingly large (tall and wide) monitors. Windows has the same problem but has done a better job of font handling, something that used to be Apple's specialty. I've done a lot of fiddling with resolutions and font sizes on a 10 year old Dell laptop running Windows 7 and a three year old Dell desktop running Windows 8.1 I would call my results satisfactory given the limitations but not all that acceptable. Isn't there some kind of software that can address this? I saw only one company listed that sells a screen magnifier, but I don't know anything about it.

I figure with a laptop you're screwed because most laptops are small and the text has always been small. But desktops ought to be a different story. That's why I have preferred desktops.

I don't know why this topic is discussed so often in forums and comments sections but so rarely in the tech press. Obviously it's important. Customers ought to be able to read computer text out of the box. They ought to be able to change resolutions and expect the text to be readable, otherwise why include the ability to change resolutions?

A couple times I posted a link to an article in a British computer magazine about how monitors went from being sold in a 12:9 ratio to being sold in a 12:10 ratio to accommodate wide screen video for movies and games (or di I have that backwards?). He's the only person I've read who has talked about that subject. I've more of a text guy. I don't need wide. The internet scrolls vertically.

Many customers blame themselves, their age, their poor eyesight for the ability to read computer text. That's wrong. Text should be easy to read and easy to change. This is a clever trick by the industry, blaming the victim. I've instructed my parents not to fall for it. Computers should make you feel smarter, not dumber. Home computers, personal computers, should be easy to use and they should work. There shouldn't be any learning curve. There are many problems which exist today in computers which didn't in the past. The situation is absurd. I wonder what it's building up to.

You can see why I want to build my own computer.



Edited by deniro (08/05/18 06:59 PM)
_________________________
OS X 10.11.6
iMac 21.5", Mid 2011
2.8 GHz Intel Core i7, 24 GB
AMD Radeon HD 6770M
Using Apple computers since 1980

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#49666 - 08/06/18 08:22 AM Re: New used iMac shakedown cruise [Re: deniro]
joemikeb Offline
Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas
Changing screen resolution worked well on video monitors but not so much with LCDs. This was pretty well discussed some 30 year ago when LCDs where the hot new technology. The "trick" to eliminating jaggies on a LCD monitor is using the default screen resolution. I stick to the default resolution on my MacBook Pro and I am not seeing any jagged characters or readability issues on either the built-in 13" screen or an attached 27" Thunderbolt monitor.

If you want larger characters for improved readabiity it is better to change the font size. I use Helvetica Neue — 18 pt as the Application font and 14 pt Menlo Regular for fixed pitch. The various system font sizes are set at 16 pt and Safari is set to Never use font sizes smaller than 12 pt.

NOTES:
  1. Setting the minimum font size too large can cause text truncation, text overwrite, and other issues in the system and apps
  2. Changes in the size of system fonts may not show up in an application until the app is restarted
  3. Some system font changes may not show up until the computer is rebooted
  4. Web page font sizes are controlled by HTML, CSS, the browser, and custom style sheets but Safari supports default Zoom settings on a global or site by site basis. For example my default zoom setting is 100%, but the default for FTM is set at 150% for comfortable reading.
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joemikeb • moderator

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#49668 - 08/06/18 09:27 AM Re: New used iMac shakedown cruise [Re: joemikeb]
Ira L Offline


Registered: 08/13/09
Loc: California
Curious where you are making all of these font setting changes. Within each app (like in Safari) or on a System-wide basis?
_________________________
On a Mac since 1984.
Currently: 27" iMacs, Macbook Air, macOS 10.14.x,; iPhones, iPods and iPads galore!

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#49669 - 08/06/18 10:02 AM Re: New used iMac shakedown cruise [Re: Ira L]
deniro Offline


Registered: 09/09/09
Text is too small on the default resolution. On any other resolution, text is jagged and blurry.
_________________________
OS X 10.11.6
iMac 21.5", Mid 2011
2.8 GHz Intel Core i7, 24 GB
AMD Radeon HD 6770M
Using Apple computers since 1980

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#49670 - 08/06/18 10:26 AM Re: New used iMac shakedown cruise [Re: joemikeb]
deniro Offline


Registered: 09/09/09
I always use Firefox. I've been fiddling with the settings but everything seems too small. Here are the choices:

0) Fonts for - Latin
1) Default Font - name and size
2) Proportional - "serif" or "sans serif", plus size
3) Sans serif - name
4) Monospace - name and size
5) Minimum font size - size
6) Allow pages to choose their own fonts - checked or unchecked

For example, while viewing Fine Tuned Mac, the following setting is way too small (and skinny!):

1) Helvetica Neue 16
2) Serif 16
3) Helvetica Neue
4) Helvetica Neue
5) 14
6) unchecked

In the past I usually surfed the web with Georgia and Verdana (Tahoma when using Windows on my Dell laptop, which looks quite nice). Verdana has been my go to font for years for most purposes, though during the past year I was printing in Times 12 (not Times New Roman) on 10.6.7


Edited by deniro (08/06/18 10:27 AM)
_________________________
OS X 10.11.6
iMac 21.5", Mid 2011
2.8 GHz Intel Core i7, 24 GB
AMD Radeon HD 6770M
Using Apple computers since 1980

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#49671 - 08/06/18 10:36 AM Re: New used iMac shakedown cruise [Re: deniro]
deniro Offline


Registered: 09/09/09
What's really dumb on the default resolution is when I'm writing. I know that I want to print in standard Times 12, but there's no way I can write at that size because it's way too small.

Moreover, in Pages 3.0.3 there is no Times 16. There's Times 14 or Times 18. I spend a lot of time reformatting text I've copied and pasted from the Web, and it takes a lot of time to resize it properly. The default resolution of this monitor would force me to write at a larger font, then change everything before printing, possibly forcing me to make even more adjustments.

This is what happens when WYSIWYG no longer applies. One of the fundamentals of desktop publishing.

All of this may seem excessive and fussy, but it isn't.
_________________________
OS X 10.11.6
iMac 21.5", Mid 2011
2.8 GHz Intel Core i7, 24 GB
AMD Radeon HD 6770M
Using Apple computers since 1980

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#49672 - 08/06/18 10:50 AM Re: New used iMac shakedown cruise [Re: deniro]
grelber Offline


Registered: 08/05/09
Loc: North of 49th ||
See what happens if you set under Firefox's Fonts & Colors the Default font to Verdana, Size 13.
I've been using that for 20 years, and it works like a charm (with default for display on my 21.5" monitor).

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#49674 - 08/07/18 12:49 AM Re: New used iMac shakedown cruise [Re: deniro]
Urquhart Offline


Registered: 08/10/17
Loc: Netherlands
Originally Posted By: deniro
Moreover, in Pages 3.0.3 there is no Times 16. There's Times 14 or Times 18. I spend a lot of time reformatting text I've copied and pasted from the Web, and it takes a lot of time to resize it properly. The default resolution of this monitor would force me to write at a larger font, then change everything before printing, possibly forcing me to make even more adjustments.

I don’t recall Pages 3, but the current Pages allows font sizes with two decimals precision, and a zoom level for easier screen reading. [img]https://i.imgur.com/T2LIGbX.png[/img]

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#49678 - 08/07/18 09:58 AM Re: New used iMac shakedown cruise [Re: grelber]
deniro Offline


Registered: 09/09/09
Verdana 13 is not bad in Firefox. For me, too, that has been a default font for many years. But it's too small now in some sites.

There's a company named Kantek that makes screen magnifiers. I wonder how that looks.

https://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductLi...&Submit=ENE
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#49679 - 08/07/18 10:32 AM Re: New used iMac shakedown cruise [Re: deniro]
joemikeb Offline
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Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas
Originally Posted By: deniro
What's really dumb on the default resolution is when I'm writing. I know that I want to print in standard Times 12, but there's no way I can write at that size because it's way too small.

I have no idea what app you are using, but most apps have a Zoom option that allows you to zoom the image on the screen so that 12 pt text will still print as 12 pt but on the screen each character may display at almost any desired size from 1/72 of an inch to several inches in size.

Originally Posted By: deniro
Moreover, in Pages 3.0.3 there is no Times 16. There's Times 14 or Times 18. I spend a lot of time reformatting text I've copied and pasted from the Web, and it takes a lot of time to resize it properly. The default resolution of this monitor would force me to write at a larger font, then change everything before printing, possibly forcing me to make even more adjustments.

The currrent version of Pages is 7.1 and is available as a FREE download from the App Store. That should take care of selecting the correct font size, but remember it may look larger on the screen because the screen image is zoomed or otherwise enlarged by HTML, CSS, and the browser but when you cut and paste the type that sizing is not copied. If you want to copy the actual size characters you have to
  • Print the page as PDF
  • Export the page as PDF
  • Take a screenshot
You will not be able to copy and paste text from PDFs unless you OCR them.
Originally Posted By: deniro
This is what happens when WYSIWYG no longer applies. One of the fundamentals of desktop publishing.

WYSIWYG still applies. Zooming is the electronic equivalent of using a magnifying glass on printed material and has no affect WYSIWYG. Pagination and layout does not change. WSIWYG is alive and well in MacOS. FULL DISCLOSURE changing typefaces, using a the same font from a different font foundry, or even a different release of a font from the same font foundry can and will change pagination and layout because the physical size of the characters and the spacing between characters may change. But what you see on the screen will still be what you see on the printed page. Zooming keeps every thing in proportion and maintains WYSIWYG,
Originally Posted By: deniro
All of this may seem excessive and fussy, but it isn't.

Your allegations are based on a misunderstanding of the technology, not technological facts. If you stick with it you should catch up with the technological changes (I started to say advances but some may argue if it is an advance or not, but it is change).
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#49680 - 08/07/18 12:45 PM Re: New used iMac shakedown cruise [Re: joemikeb]
deniro Offline


Registered: 09/09/09
Text does look smaller on a display with higher resolutions regardless of font size.

Say I print a page in Verdana 11 in Pages. Then I place the printed page next to the screen page. Do they look identical? They do not. What I'm seeing isn't what I'm getting. Which word am I using incorrectly?

I agree that a 10 page document in Pages in Verdana 11 at 1920 x 1080 will be a 10 page document at 1600 x 1900. But what does it look like on the screen at each resolution? What does the printed result look like compared to what's on the screen?

Verdana 11 onscreen in the first resolution is smaller and harder to read than the second resolution, though the second confounds the problem by rendering the page in jagged text.

Moreover, I doubt this is a problem with LCDs vs CRTS because the complaints have increased long after LCD monitors became the default. It may be that the 16:10 v. 16:9 ratio is the problem, not the LCD technology, and that is something I see discussed rarely. In some online stores you can use either ratio as a search filter. As you know, some monitors pivot 90 degrees. Or the problem may be in how the OS or the graphic cards or both render fonts.

Don't take my word for it. All you have to do is google Mac or iMac and "jagged text".


Edited by deniro (08/08/18 03:20 AM)
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