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#30176 - 05/28/14 10:30 AM Big Brother(s), "1984" style
grelber Offline


Registered: 08/05/09
Loc: North of 49th ||

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#30177 - 05/28/14 11:05 AM Re: Big Brother(s), "1984" style [Re: grelber]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Aargh!!! mad

I can see how they acquire pretty much all of their data, but Social Security Numbers?

Can anybody explain how they harvest SSNs other than as a result of gross consumer negligence?
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The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

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#30179 - 05/28/14 12:04 PM Re: Big Brother(s), "1984" style [Re: artie505]
dkmarsh Online
Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09

Yes. Gross institutional negligence.
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#30181 - 05/28/14 12:08 PM Re: Big Brother(s), "1984" style [Re: artie505]
grelber Offline


Registered: 08/05/09
Loc: North of 49th ||
Below the 49th virtually every time you turn around you give some third party your SSN. Medicare/Medicaid, most other medical insurance, etc use the SSN as their ID number. I wouldn't be surprised if your local public library requested it when you applied for a card. And of course any bank or credit reporting agency throws it about without regard for privacy.

(Just so you know, north of the 49th the equivalent to the SSN is usually guarded and is certainly not used for the purposes indicated above. In fact, it is illegal for any agency to demand that number unless it is required for tax reporting purposes — ie, bank accounts, paid employment, and the like.)

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#30184 - 05/28/14 01:08 PM Re: Big Brother(s), "1984" style [Re: grelber]
joemikeb Offline
Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas
Originally Posted By: grelber
(Just t so you know, north of the 49th the equivalent to the SSN is usually guarded and is certainly not used for the purposes indicated above. In fact, it is illegal for any agency to demand that number unless it is required for tax reporting purposes — i.e., bank accounts, paid employment, and the like.)

Actually South of the 49th it is technically illegal to use the SSN as an identification number for anything except income tax and social security. But there are exceptions for the convenience dog the government. Medicare and Medicaid use the SSN+ A or B how secure is that? The U.S. military used to have their own unique service numbers but after the passage of that law they changed to the SSN with a two character prefix that magically transforms it from an illegal use of the SSN to a legal military service number. It is justified because that limits the use to government and medical entities or anyone associated with the medical field such as health insurance providers and supposedly they are covered by the Health Insurance Privacy Act (a.k.a. HIPA). Other than that private companies will be punished for using the SSN in any form. That only exposes the SSN to what — maybe ⅔ of the population of the U.S. and service providers in most of the third world. Banks and other financial institutions get away with using the SSN because it is not used as an identifying number in their data systems.
confused confused frown frown mad mad


Edited by joemikeb (05/28/14 01:11 PM)
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#30187 - 05/28/14 02:07 PM Re: Big Brother(s), "1984" style [Re: joemikeb]
grelber Offline


Registered: 08/05/09
Loc: North of 49th ||
Once the info is out there (resident in one or more of the 9 companies, for example), it's "ball game". The fat lady has sung, and all your laundry is hanging on the line for all to see and exploit.
Now are we having fun?! tongue smirk mad
(Three fingers of 100 proof Smirnov should do the trick.)

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#30190 - 05/28/14 10:41 PM Re: Big Brother(s), "1984" style [Re: dkmarsh]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: dkmarsh
Yes. Gross institutional negligence.

Oops, yeah, there is that. blush

Not to minimize the potential, though, I don't recall ever having heard of a security breach that involved SSNs; are you aware of any? (I wonder if the SSA has a contingency plan to change SSNs should the need arise?)
_________________________
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory Of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire

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#30191 - 05/28/14 10:50 PM Re: Big Brother(s), "1984" style [Re: joemikeb]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Valley National Bank once sent me a letter that identified me by my SSN, and when I complained, they told me that it was OK because they disguised the number by leaving out the hyphens. tongue

I feel way more at risk from walking around with my Medicare card than I do from Internet villains.
_________________________
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory Of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire

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#30192 - 05/29/14 04:43 AM Re: Big Brother(s), "1984" style [Re: artie505]
dkmarsh Online
Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
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#30195 - 05/29/14 04:00 PM Re: Big Brother(s), "1984" style [Re: artie505]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: artie505
Valley National Bank once sent me a letter that identified me by my SSN, and when I complained, they told me that it was OK because they disguised the number by leaving out the hyphens. tongue

Correction: It was actually Sovereign Bank.
_________________________
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory Of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire

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#30198 - 05/30/14 05:53 PM Re: Big Brother(s), "1984" style [Re: artie505]
slolerner Offline


Registered: 08/25/09
Loc: New York City
Did you know that you can tell where someone was born using the first three digits?

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#30199 - 05/30/14 06:13 PM Re: Big Brother(s), "1984" style [Re: slolerner]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
"Structure", here, says "Nope". (It also debunks the notion I've always had that the two middle digits had something to do with the year in which a card was issued.)

Confusing, to say the least.
_________________________
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory Of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire

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#30200 - 05/30/14 08:15 PM Re: Big Brother(s), "1984" style [Re: artie505]
slolerner Offline


Registered: 08/25/09
Loc: New York City
I'm not sure, it says the first three numbers are where the card was issued (usually where you were born) but I'm not totally clear about what they are saying.

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#30201 - 05/30/14 09:55 PM Re: Big Brother(s), "1984" style [Re: slolerner]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
I think the defining sentence is

Quote:
Thus, the Area Number does not necessarily represent the State of residence of the applicant regardless of whether the card was issued prior to, or after, 1973. (Emphasis added)

It may, but doesn't always.
_________________________
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory Of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire

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#30202 - 05/30/14 10:26 PM Re: Big Brother(s), "1984" style [Re: dkmarsh]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Well, it's possible to get a new SSN, but it's far from a panacea, may even be a lousy idea, and is a daunting task.

See this SSA doc.
_________________________
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory Of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire

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#48764 - 05/03/18 08:48 AM Re: Big Brother(s), "1984" style [Re: joemikeb]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: joemikeb
Actually South of the 49th it is technically illegal to use the SSN as an identification number for anything except income tax and social security. But there are exceptions for the convenience dog the government. Medicare and Medicaid use the SSN+ A or B how secure is that?

I assume that you recently got the same notification I got...advising me that a new Medicare card with a unique ID # is in the mail.

About time! mad
_________________________
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory Of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire

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#48767 - 05/03/18 09:54 AM Re: Big Brother(s), "1984" style [Re: artie505]
grelber Offline


Registered: 08/05/09
Loc: North of 49th ||
Originally Posted By: artie505
...a new Medicare card with a unique ID # is in the mail.

And how long will it take before that is totally compromised in one way or another?

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#48770 - 05/03/18 11:06 AM Re: Big Brother(s), "1984" style [Re: grelber]
MG2009 Offline


Registered: 08/05/09
Re: (Just so you know, north of the 49th the equivalent to the SSN is usually guarded and is certainly not used for the purposes indicated above. In fact, it is illegal for any agency to demand that number unless it is required for tax reporting purposes — ie, bank accounts, paid employment, and the like.)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Actually, there are a couple of INSURANCE companies in Canada (of which I am aware) who use one's S.I.N. for identification purposes (e.g. when submitting claim forms). Thus, not only government agencies above the 49th collect the S.I.N. as ID - whether legal or not legal to do so.

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#48771 - 05/03/18 12:32 PM Re: Big Brother(s), "1984" style [Re: grelber]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: grelber
Originally Posted By: artie505
...a new Medicare card with a unique ID # is in the mail.

And how long will it take before that is totally compromised in one way or another?

If their's an old # ---> new # algorithm, about two or three hours.

But at least Medicare recipients will no longer have to walk around with their SSNs in their pockets.
_________________________
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory Of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire

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#48777 - 05/03/18 03:53 PM Re: Big Brother(s), "1984" style [Re: artie505]
joemikeb Offline
Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas
Originally Posted By: artie505
But at least Medicare recipients will no longer have to walk around with their SSNs in their pockets.

No, but for the next year or even longer Medicare recipients will be re-filling out hundreds of pages of the same information at every medical facility they go to to for any reason. I just went to my regular physician this morning for the first time this year and had to fill out the same 10 - 12 pages of information and releases, I filled in at the beginning of last year. Once the new Medicare cards arrive, that will all have to be re-done, probably finished just in time before the whole process has to be repeated for FY 2019. confused mad crazy frown :AAARRRRGGGHHH:
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#48780 - 05/04/18 01:03 AM Re: Big Brother(s), "1984" style [Re: joemikeb]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
I'd take the trade-off even if I went to doctors.

SSNs on Medicare cards has long been a pet peeve of mine, and the fix is WAAAY past due.

But why do you think the new cards will necessitate redoing the forms? Your (my, anyhow) SSN appears only once, on page 1. Do your docs use bound sets?
_________________________
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory Of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire

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#48783 - 05/04/18 07:37 AM Re: Big Brother(s), "1984" style [Re: artie505]
joemikeb Offline
Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas
Originally Posted By: artie505
But why do you think the new cards will necessitate redoing the forms? Your (my, anyhow) SSN appears only once, on page 1. Do your docs use bound sets?

None of my doctors used bound sets, all have converted all of their records to computer files. But every year I have to fill out the same paper forms and a clerk transcribes the data into their computer. confused
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joemikeb • moderator

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#48785 - 05/04/18 07:58 AM Re: Big Brother(s), "1984" style [Re: joemikeb]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: joemikeb
None of my doctors used bound sets, all have converted all of their records to computer files. But every year I have to fill out the same paper forms and a clerk transcribes the data into their computer. confused

You'd think that the update procedure would be computerized by now.

The only doctor I see regularly, i.e. annually, is my ophthalmologist, and he's never even asked me to update, let alone redo my paperwork.

I dunno... Degree of paranoia, i.e. fear of lawsuits, or (foolish?) lack thereof?


Edited by artie505 (05/04/18 06:39 PM)
Edit Reason: Expand
_________________________
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory Of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire

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#48793 - 05/05/18 08:51 AM Re: Big Brother(s), "1984" style [Re: artie505]
joemikeb Offline
Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas
Required by Medicare actually.
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#48794 - 05/05/18 12:32 PM Re: Big Brother(s), "1984" style [Re: joemikeb]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: joemikeb
Required by Medicare actually.

Please don't tell my doctor; I hate filling out those forms.
_________________________
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory Of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire

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