Home Forums FineTunedMac Community Lounge Bad, bad Facebook!

Two articles which demonstrate that Facebook is your worst enemy, even if you don't subscribe to Facebook. And Google could be worse yet.

I Downloaded the Information That Facebook Has on Me. Yikes.

What You Don’t Know About How Facebook Uses Your Data

I'd guess that it's also "even if you don't own a computer". Every time a non-owner applies for a credit card, or joins a retailer's customer club, et cetera, the paper application is entered into a computer with name, address, phone and other information. And, of course, that's likely shared and eventually easily matched with data stored in their friends' computer contact software.

Makes me feel like barfing!

Never joined Facebook, never sign in to Google, never will.

Well... Actually I just did sign in to Google to see what Google Takeout would tell me, but it couldn't tell me anything...perhaps because I never sign in?

Ditto....and I almost did, listening to Zuckerberg's weasel-like responses to many of the questions asked by The Congressional committee. Most revealing about the Facebook management attitude was the memo produced by Senator Lindsay.

It's best described in this reporter's column.

You dreamer you! You don't have to logon for Google to capture a lot of data about you and from that it is amazing what they can deduce and pinpoint you as an individual.

• Did you ever do a Google Search? (Is there anyone who hasn't?).
• Did you ever visit a third party web site that uses Google Analytics? (the majority do or have third party advertising banners that do)
• Did you ever plan a journey using Google Maps? Did you designate a location as "Home"?
• Did you ever access a third party web site that turned out to be a Facebook Page or Google App and would you know it if you did?
• Did you ever log onto the Internet and visit a website using any browser than TOR with the security settings on maximum? (A VPN is better than nothing but at best that only offers partial hiding.)
• Did you ever send an email to someone who uses Gmail? (if they are on a Google App, Gmail probably is not in their email address but it still goes through the Gmail servers and Google still collects the data.)
• Who owns the DNS server you use and what arrangements do they have with Google for data sharing?

Facebook was at least initially pretty well bounded within the Facebook community, but Zukerberg's concept is/was based on everyone in the Facebook community knowing everything about everyone else in the Facebook community. More and more advertising on Facebook has expanded that outside of the actual Facebook community — a LOT, and of course there was the recent faux paux.

You overlooked the Google Takeout part, and we're apparently both correct.

I finally got my Google Takeout, a minuscule 3.5 MB file, and its only personally identifiable content was the image - no text - part of my FTM avatar. (Confused about why on both accounts.)

Of the 3.5 MB, 3 MB was a Google Drive tutorial, and almost all of the rest was my "Index" and a link to my YouTube subscriptions (of which I've got none).

The lack of content is presumably the result of my never logging in to Google, but, on the other hand, I'm sure there's an enormous body of info somewhere out there that's tied to my ISP address but, hopefully, not linked to my name.

FWIW, ways to view or download your Facebook or Google datasets have been widely discussed lately, but I haven’t seen all that much about deleting such data, assuming that’s even possible given 3rd party copies etc. Be that as it may, here’s the scoop for deleting your Google search history. Note, however, that this—apart from affecting your future web browsing—doesn’t do much to stop data aggregators from following you on the Internet, even when you use tools available to limit your exposure.

Good links! I'm sure Google and Facebook users will jump on them.

Happily, I've never been either.

(Deleting your Google browser history apparently requires Chrome, which I've never even d/l'ed.)

Perhaps I am just pessimistic (or realistic?), but I take the position that everything I do on The Net is seen by anyone who wants to get at it - banking, emails, naughty sites, whatever. I put little stock in the "security" that such sites supposedly provide. Ditto with VPNs and Google Takeout.

And I would hardly expect anyone checking into my activities without my permission would be upfront about doing so.

P.S. I have used Google searches, but have never been a Facebook member (although, as joemikeb mentioned, I have been automatically re-directed to a Facebook page).

This all makes my head spin around fast enough to give me a headache!

Every time I look at matters such as these in what I think is a realistic manner, I reach the same conclusion, i.e. that much of my life was "out there" in the clear in public and other records looong before any of the current über-bad guys reared their ugly heads, and that since I can't make it go away, and I've got nothing new to hide, I'm just going to live my life on the path of least resistance (in my particular context).

I studiously avoid know data aggregators such as Google and Facebook, I run Ghostery and AdBlock, and as for the guys who've got only my ISP address, who cares if they know which innocuous medications the anonymous person who uses this particular computer takes or which sneakers se buys? It's simply not important enough to me to make me either lose sleep or invest more than minimal time in it!

Sure, I've been in many of joemike's enumerated situations, but they all fall into the same "So what?" category.

Appearing to wear your heart on your sleeve is a wonderful smokescreen, particularly when you're aware of possibilities and how to circumvent them!

A question, though: Everybody talks about targeted ads, and I'd love to know where people see them; I pretty much never see ANY ads, let alone any that I'd call "targeted".

Ignorance is bliss as the old saying goes.

I'll stick my neck out and ask exactly what you meant by that.

My guess would be: Taking on a "so what" attitude doesn't negate that fact that nefarious activity can be going on in the background which could be harmful to you.

It's not that I don't care, but I, like you, will only let worrying about such things take up a minimal amount of my head space.

As far as unsolicited email ads are concerned, I discovered the delete button on my keyboard and use it regularly.

Right in one MG2009.

That calls for clarification.

You're implying that the trail I leave behind when I anonymously search with Google can be a springboard for "nefarious activity", and I'd like to know how, and what it might be.

I'll jump on your DuckDuckGo/Tor scheme if I've ever got something to hide, but until then, why even suggest that I may have something to hide? I don't see how adding additional innocuous info to the body of innocuous info about my ISP address that's already been collected can put me at risk, and I won't be happy to find out, but I'm certainly curious.

All I can say by way of clarification is that - speaking for myself now - I do not think that my activities on The Net are as "anonymous" and protected as websites would like me to believe.

I was in NO WAY saying or implying that YOU in particular had something to hide. My only point is that anyone who wants to dig around other people's business - with some extra effort and knowhow - probably can do so (i.e. in the context of the Google/Facebook/ Unsolicited Advertising discussion mentioned earlier). I have no "proof" per se. On the other hand, by way of example, look how easily the news media gets hold of folks' emails and text messages to support their latest headlines, etc. Are such messages always "voluntarily submitted" for broadcast or publication . . . or are some of these messages "retrieved" without permission?

I still stand by my original "gut feeling" : Anyone who really wants to track or monitor me probably can - although I have no idea why anybody would bother.

Nicely said....

No one truly knows exactly what tidbits of personal information exist in "the public domain" for retrieval and reassembly into something perhaps MORE revealing than you would be comfortable having openly revealed.

...and thus this discussion.

Re: "Nicely said...."


-------------------------


Tanx.

I just remembered another example: A while ago I was looking at a real estate site. Within minutes, I received a generic email from a mortgage company in my junk inbox.

Coincidence or targeted? Either way, the timing is kind of spooky.

Hungry, hungry hippo ...

Google’s File on Me Was Huge. Here’s Why It Wasn’t as Creepy as My Facebook Data.

One more thing . . .


This morning I wrote an email to a friend in which I included - among other tidbits - a mention of household insurance.

Within FIVE minutes, I received not one BUT three ad emails from insurance companies I have never communicated with before - either online or offline.

Yes . . . online activities, even "private" emails, are being monitored/scanned. To me, it would be far too coincidental that three different companies would contact me so quickly regarding such a specific topic not otherwise regularly found in my emails.

And, no, I am not being paranoid. Just reporting what happened as it happened.

GMail acc't???? On either end, outgoing server or incoming?

While I understand your curiosity, my intention was not to single out any particular email service.

I only mention the incident now in the context of the earlier discussions about Facebook's and Google's tracking practices. It would appear (to me) that email providers may have similar accessibility - something I had not considered until quite recently.

I've NEVER received a targeted email.

My only guess is that it's because I don't use Gmail, I've never broken bread with Facebook, and I basically never log in to Google.

A bunch of years back I posted here wondering what had happened to my Google prefs cookie which, among other useful things, enabled 'n' hits per page rather than the default 10, but I never got a response. I've since discovered that Google moved it behind their login pane...I'll guess because they realized they were giving us non-logger-inners free functionality.

As much as I miss that functionality, I've never looked back.

Whether or not you choose to reveal the service, you at least may have reason to consider changing….if you are with GMail.

My experience is exactly the same as artie….no targeted emails. And, I have the same conditions….not on Gmail and don’t log into Google so, while my email provider may “have similar accessibility”, they are not using it to send targeted emails. Just sayin’.

Re: My experience is exactly the same as artie….no targeted emails . . .

----------------

I get AD emails a fair amount on subjects related to WEBSITES which I have visited. My "Junk Mail" filter usually catches those.

This was the first time I received an ad email related to subject matter contained in a personal EMAIL . . . and three of them within minutes of sending my email.

Perhaps just a coincidence. Kind of freaky, though.

I can understand the email/email connection, but I don't see how your visiting a website could result in targeted emails.

How would the senders get your address?

There's got to be something in what you're doing that's making you vulnerable.

Re: " . . . but I don't see how your visiting a website could result in targeted emails."

-------------------------------------------------

Beats me.

(see post #48600 earlier)

Since WWI if not before, it has been a maxim among security circles that critical intelligence is seldom, if ever, the result of discovering single piece or source of information. Rather it is the sum of lots and lots of seemingly unrelated bits of data from lots of different sources that taken together become the "big reveal". The computer's ability to associate small bits of information from hundreds or thousands of sources in seconds is the key modern marketers rely on. They can gather much of the information from your browser including your IP address and use that to search through millions/billions of other apparently unrelated pieces of data gathered openly or covertly from any web site you may have accessed anywhere on the internet to find your email address, the sites you visit, the kind of computer you have, the browser you use, your purchasing habits, the financial institutions you do business with, hoe address, Social Security Number, etc.. At which point they "own" you.

How can you protect yourself?

• Eschew the use of the internet (which is akin to killing the goose that lays the golden eggs).
• Use a reliable VPN that does not record any of your data (check out NORDVPN, CyberGhost VPN, or EXPRESSVPN and there are many others
• Turn off JavaScript in your browser (NOTE: that is JavaScript not Java which means you will not be able to use virtually any eCommerce websites
• If you are using Firefox, Chrome, or Opera install HTTPS Everywhere (NOTE: HTTPS Everywhere uses Javascript which is a bummer IMO. (WARNING: When searching for a HTTPS Everywhere download the first site I visited (softonic.com) attempted to download MacKeeper which is a "cure" that is worse than any problem it purports to solve.
• Encrypt your email traffic using PGP/GPG (not perfect but better than nothing.}
• Use the TOR Browser and Onion Routing with security settings turned to maximum (which among other things turns off JavaScript)
• Some of the above
• Most of the above
• All of the above

The shorter version: Time to die and go to hell.

I closed my Facebook account last month. I wasn't that worried about the data scandal, because my account didn't have many personal details about me. I mainly used it to access other peoples pages. I closed my account because of the collateral damage that could have been caused to people I had "friended".

Google. I have turned off as many preferences as I can, but I rely on Google maps, both on my computer and my phone. I allow location tracking on my phone.

Amazon. I use Amazon a lot.

Two things have opened my eyes lately. Google sent my phone a message, asking me to update stops along my last road trip to Berlin. Any place I had stopped for more than fifteen minutes was logged on the map from London to Berlin and back.

Lesson: take a burner on your crime spree and turn off location tracking. Jeeze!

The second thing: I was browsing televisions on Amazon's site. I switched off and went directly to CNET.com/uk. On the home page was an advert for the television I had just looked at on Amazon. Wow! As fast was that!

Trouble is, it's getting harder and harder to use sites with an ad blocker.

The lastest thing I'm suffering is the endless blackmail emails I get from Russia and the Ukraine, which say they have caught me on camera enjoying myself while watching porn. I have 24 hours to pay up or my computer will be infected with a virus. I have yet to pay and it's a big bluff. I know it's a bluff 'cause my computer doesn't have a camera. Oh, and of course the other reason...

Too many FaceBook users are unaware of the potential for collateral damage. You are to be commended for your decision.
Google is the biggest data collector and not only from their sites but from thousands of other sites as well. They are making billions of dollars, pounds, euros, etc. selling data to anyone and everyone. Amazon breaks even or just a bit more on products they sell. They make their billions is in stock appreciation and the sale of data on who buys what.
I may be kidding myself, but since I have started using a VPN, I no longer get the nags urging me to turn off my content blockers. It appears the VPN gets the advertising so the site gets credit for it, but it does not get passed on to me. That is a win win for the content provider and me, but in truth the advertiser is not getting the visibility they are paying for.
A double threat blackmail scheme! That seems rather amateurish for the Russians and Ukrainians. Are you sure they are the source?

RE: The lastest thing I'm suffering is the endless blackmail emails I get from Russia and the Ukraine, which say they have caught me on camera enjoying myself while watching porn. . . .

------------------------

Mystery solved. I was wondering who I was watching the other night.

Stormy Daniels?

Surely the quickest way to catch a virus, and no one will raise an eyebrow.

[/quote] A double threat blackmail scheme! That seems rather amateurish for the Russians and Ukrainians. Are you sure they are the source? [/quote]
No. They say they are Russians or Ukranians and their email links end in .ru, but I'm guessing they are amateurs, as I haven't been attacked.

I've never run across any mention of collateral damage before...explanation, please.

Thanks.

Restating that, what sort of collateral damage could an individual such a freelance cause?

I was hoping joemikeb would answer your question, because my answer won't be very technical:

Supposing someone has got a hack to your details on Facebook. When they hack your page, everyone you have listed as a Friend is automatically a vulnerable target as well. I can't find the links to the newspaper articles that came out when the scandal broke, so I can't be more enlightening, but you, your friends and their friends and on an on are victims because of the simple association to you.

What's the game? Six degrees of separation? Only worse.

Here's a random page I Googled:

https://www.ctvnews.ca/sci-tech/facebook-privacy-scandal-explained-1.3874533

And, as I recall, all the people connected to your friends and to their friends were targets... and on and on. It started with an app that was supposedly some sort of survey. About 270,000 people installed the app but the never-ending "friend connections" allowed Cambridge Analytica to collect data on 50 million Facebook users.

I tried two or three times but it all became so baroque that I couldn't follow my own train of thought.

Facebook Gave Device Makers Deep Access to Data on Users and Friends Fortunately for me, I neither use Facebook nor do I intend to ever do so.

This Wizard of ID strip seems very appropriate to this thread.

I heard (quite some time ago) there was a similar issue with emails. Not sure if it amounted to much, though.

In theory, anyone who has my email can find out the addresses of anyone else I have in my contact list who has my email - but not without some real tech savvy (not some kind of app).

"And she told two friends, and so on, and so on."

And to make things more interesting, Facebook Gave Data Access to Chinese Firm Flagged by U.S. Intelligence

Who needs Big Brother when there's Facebook? What 7 Creepy Patents Reveal About Facebook

Who needs Facebook creepiness when Google is far more ubiquitous and far more intrusive. So much so the EU just hit them with a $5 Billion fine — yes BILLION — for anti-competitive practices.

This just in from the Washington Post

Once again I sigh in relief that I've chosen not to belong to any social media site.

Amen.