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#48371 - 03/25/18 11:37 AM Re: Anyone using Office? Advice on upgrading. [Re: artie505]
kevs Offline


Registered: 12/07/09
I'm thinking of doing Amazon's $129 for Office 2016, unless someone advises against it...

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#48380 - 03/26/18 02:10 AM Re: Anyone using Office? Advice on upgrading. [Re: kevs]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Benefits for 1 user: 
Install on 1 Mac 
Upgrades not included

I think that finally puts ryck's "updates" issue to rest.
_________________________
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory Of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire

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#48382 - 03/26/18 06:56 AM Re: Anyone using Office? Advice on upgrading. [Re: artie505]
kevs Offline


Registered: 12/07/09
Joe , Ryck etc

Do upgrades matter? I have copy of Dreamweaver 10 years old, they don't upgrade anything at all and I'm fine with it.

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#48383 - 03/26/18 08:19 AM Re: Anyone using Office? Advice on upgrading. [Re: kevs]
joemikeb Online
Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas
Originally Posted By: kevs
Do upgrades matter? I have copy of Dreamweaver 10 years old, they don't upgrade anything at all and I'm fine with it.

Are you taking about upGRADES or upDATES? I guarantee there were a number of upDATES to Dreamweaver, but it long ago dropped off of the support queue. To get upDATES for your Dreamweaver you would have to have purchased an later upGRADE version and there have been several since your version shipped..

upDATES generally offer…
  • ...bug fixes
  • ...security patches
  • ...are free

upGRADES generally offer...
  • …new features, some you may never use and some you may find invaluable
  • …compatibility with evolving standards (for example there is a lot of new stuff in HTML, CSS, Javascript, graphics, etc. that are not supported in your ten year old Dreamweaver and still other features that have been deprecated or removed from the. standards.)
  • …compatibility with newer versions of MacOS (for example your 10 year old Dreamweaver is likely 32 bit and will not be able to run in MacOS 10.13 or 10.14).
  • …built in protection from the latest generation Malware exploits.
  • …are NOT free but there are discounts if you are upGRADING from a recent version of the product.
Going back to your Dreamweaver example, If your website development needs are modest, and having a modern looking website with the latest features is not a concern, you can stick with your 10 year old Dreamweaver until it is broken by a MacOS upGRADE and it would be okay. With MS Office products their vulnerability to malware exploits would give one pause if for example there sere no security upDATES.
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joemikeb • moderator

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#48384 - 03/26/18 08:46 AM Re: Anyone using Office? Advice on upgrading. [Re: joemikeb]
kevs Offline


Registered: 12/07/09
Thanks So much Joe. So you say buy/ don't buy Office 2016?

I really did not want to spend the $80 year just to use Excel/ Word... but.....(subscription)

Hoping to buy 2016.. and use that for 5-10 years....

Do you have an opinion? You don't use Word/ Excel?

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#48385 - 03/26/18 11:26 AM Re: Anyone using Office? Advice on upgrading. [Re: kevs]
joemikeb Online
Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas
Originally Posted By: kevs
Thanks So much Joe. So you say buy/ don't buy Office 2016?

I really did not want to spend the $80 year just to use Excel/ Word... but.....(subscription)

Hoping to buy 2016.. and use that for 5-10 years....

Do you have an opinion? You don't use Word/ Excel?

What I am saying is the decision must be yours. You have to balance the cost/benefit/risk equation for yourself. I do think your ten year window may be unrealistic given the rate of technological advance but it will likely be good for another five years whether or not Microsoft continues to support it.

I don't use Microsoft Office instead I find Numbers easily fills all my rather pedestrian spreadsheet needs and has the advantage of being free and available on MacOS, iOS, and iCloud and can read and export Excel files. For word processing I occasionally use Pages because it is also free and available on MacOS, iOS, and iCloud but I often find it pretty limiting. For serious writing I use Mellel 4.1 which, in spite of its strong academic orientation, I find to be cleaner, easier to use, and in many ways more powerful than Word. To top it off Mellel 4.1 can read and export Word files. I used to use NeoOffice for all Office tasks but I find it as clunky as Word so now the only thing I use it for is database (which requires Java and is therefore not available in the App Store version. smirk ) For major writing projects for print, the web, eBooks, or a combination of all of the above my choice is Scriviner.

By-the-way in light of your Dreamweaver example, I wish I thought I could afford a new copy of it, but I don't do enough website work to make it a wise investment and I don't want to get stuck paying Adobe for it forever.
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#48386 - 03/26/18 11:36 AM Re: Anyone using Office? Advice on upgrading. [Re: joemikeb]
kevs Offline


Registered: 12/07/09
Thanks Joe, interesting, I don't see Numbers or Pages in my App folder, so I'll download to take a peek, but I'm so used to excel/ word.

NeoOffice, any better than Openoffice? A few interns have used open office.

Dreamweaver, someone (a tad incoherent), on DW forum mentioned idea of still using my old great copy of DW on a virtual machine. Do you think that would be practical?

(what would that be a Mac virtual machine that will run 32 bit apps?)

Still leaning then toward getting that final standalone copy of office 2016

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#48387 - 03/26/18 01:37 PM Re: Anyone using Office? Advice on upgrading. [Re: joemikeb]
grelber Offline


Registered: 08/05/09
Loc: North of 49th ||
Originally Posted By: joemikeb
... With MS Office products their vulnerability to malware exploits would give one pause if for example there [w]ere no security upDATES.

However ... if one only uses the product offline, it seems to me that this would be a non-issue. Moreover, running a malware-detection and cleaning package such as Malwarebytes from time to time should keep the MS Office suite clean; and running such on any incoming MS Office items should again be protective.
* Please correct any misconception(s) I might have in this regard. *

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#48388 - 03/26/18 01:39 PM Re: Anyone using Office? Advice on upgrading. [Re: grelber]
kevs Offline


Registered: 12/07/09
thanks G

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#48392 - 03/26/18 03:18 PM Re: Anyone using Office? Advice on upgrading. [Re: grelber]
joemikeb Online
Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas
All you have to do is open one infected document in Word or Excel, then the question is whether it can infect your Mac or not. There have been some nasty exploits written in Word Basic (or whatever it is called these days). So far Macs have been spared, but I would not want to be the first one bitten.
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#48393 - 03/26/18 03:38 PM Re: Anyone using Office? Advice on upgrading. [Re: joemikeb]
kevs Offline


Registered: 12/07/09
But Joe, even with my current 2011 which has security update, I'm not supposed to open emails docs, I'm not sure where came from..?

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#48395 - 03/27/18 12:50 AM Re: Anyone using Office? Advice on upgrading. [Re: joemikeb]
grelber Offline


Registered: 08/05/09
Loc: North of 49th ||
Originally Posted By: joemikeb
All you have to do is open one infected document in Word or Excel, then the question is whether it can infect your Mac or not. There have been some nasty exploits written in Word Basic (or whatever it is called these days). So far Macs have been spared, but I would not want to be the first one bitten.

True all around.
That's one reason I never open Word documents from anyone I don't feel is security-minded. That's also why any (usually long) Word documents I create and wish to share with others I first convert to PDF and send that file instead. (They can convert it back to Word, if they wish, at their end.)

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#48396 - 03/27/18 01:36 AM Re: Anyone using Office? Advice on upgrading. [Re: grelber]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: grelber
(They can convert it back to Word, if they wish, at their end.)

How do you convert a PDF back to Word?
_________________________
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory Of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire

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#48398 - 03/27/18 03:00 AM Re: Anyone using Office? Advice on upgrading. [Re: artie505]
grelber Offline


Registered: 08/05/09
Loc: North of 49th ||
Originally Posted By: artie505
Originally Posted By: grelber
(They can convert it back to Word, if they wish, at their end.)

How do you convert a PDF back to Word?

Open in Adobe Reader, then choose Convert to Word online [see toolbar]. Also works for Excel. [It costs.]
In Adobe Acrobat the conversion possibility is part of the app.

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#48399 - 03/27/18 03:52 AM Re: Anyone using Office? Advice on upgrading. [Re: grelber]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Useful info; thanks. (I've never needed anything more than Preview.)

Isn't Reader free and Acrobat the shareware version?
_________________________
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory Of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire

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#48400 - 03/27/18 07:10 AM Re: Anyone using Office? Advice on upgrading. [Re: artie505]
grelber Offline


Registered: 08/05/09
Loc: North of 49th ||
Originally Posted By: artie505
Isn't Reader free and Acrobat the shareware version?

Reader is the free version (which is why there are a lot of things you can't do with it compared with Acrobat).

I'm not aware that Acrobat has a shareware version. One pays up front for a given version (which then includes various updates).

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#48401 - 03/27/18 08:19 AM Re: Anyone using Office? Advice on upgrading. [Re: grelber]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: grelber
Reader is the free version (which is why there are a lot of things you can't do with it compared with Acrobat).

Thanks.

I was confused by "Open in Adobe Reader.... [It costs.]" which implies that it's not free.

Originally Posted By: grelber
I'm not aware that Acrobat has a shareware version. One pays up front for a given version (which then includes various updates).

I meant to say "commercial" but lost the word. (On the other hand, the difference between the two is often blurred.)
_________________________
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory Of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire

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#48406 - 03/27/18 11:10 AM Re: Anyone using Office? Advice on upgrading. [Re: kevs]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: kevs
Still leaning then toward getting that final standalone copy of office 2016

Apropos of your mention of "Chinese counterfeits" a few posts back, there's a guy who has sold 1,100 bootleg copies of Office 2016 Home & Business on eBay. If I remember correctly, they're on disc, and obviously bootleg, but I guess the price (which I forgot to note and can no longer find) was irresistible. (There are also guys selling obviously bootleg copies on thumb drives.)

The day you first posted, though, I didn't look on eBay and missed a legitimate copy of H & B for $55, but I've since decided to forego this golden opportunity to spend the next 1 1/2 years neurotically obsessing over an inconsequential amount of money and paid $90 for it.
_________________________
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory Of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire

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#48407 - 03/27/18 04:40 PM Re: Anyone using Office? Advice on upgrading. [Re: artie505]
grelber Offline


Registered: 08/05/09
Loc: North of 49th ||
Originally Posted By: artie505
I was confused by "Open in Adobe Reader.... [It costs.]" which implies that it's not free.

Mea culpa. I should have avoided the shorthand and noted that when you select Convert to Word online, it takes you to a pricing page (before conversion). That's one of the reasons Acrobat is a better deal in the long run.

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#48418 - 03/28/18 04:30 PM Re: Anyone using Office? Advice on upgrading. [Re: grelber]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Thanks for the clarification.
_________________________
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory Of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire

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#48419 - 03/29/18 02:21 AM Re: Anyone using Office? Advice on upgrading. [Re: artie505]
grelber Offline


Registered: 08/05/09
Loc: North of 49th ||
Originally Posted By: artie505
Useful info; thanks. (I've never needed anything more than Preview.)

And just as useful is your reminder about the utility of Preview, which is at least as good as Adobe Reader for PDF files. I never got into the habit of using Preview for other than viewing JPGs and such (which would just open automatically in that app). I may have to revise my habits.

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#48513 - 04/05/18 06:43 PM Re: Anyone using Office? Advice on upgrading. [Re: kevs]
Bob_00001 Offline


Registered: 01/03/10
Originally Posted By: kevs
NeoOffice, any better than Openoffice?


At one time NeoOffice had a much better user interface than OpenOffice. But then OpenOffice made some major changes to their user interface. After that, I didn't see any significant difference between the two. I stopped upgrading NeoOffice after they started charging for upgrades (and OpenOffice/LibreOffice remained free). The cost of NeoOffice is only $15, but it annoys me that there's no way to try it beforehand to see if it's really any better than OpenOffice/LibreOffice. So, I'm now using LibreOffice 5 (after Oracle's takeover of Sun made OpenOffice's future uncertain). Actually, I alternate between Apple's Pages app and LibreOffice for word processing, but use LibreOffice exclusively for spreadsheets. I find that Apple's Numbers app is like the dumb blond of spreadsheets; looks pretty, but useless for anything more complicated than adding a column of numbers.

I certainly wouldn't spend any significant amount of money to get MS Office.
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MacBook Pro 15" (2015)
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#48514 - 04/06/18 08:13 AM Re: Anyone using Office? Advice on upgrading. [Re: Bob_00001]
joemikeb Online
Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas
FYI: The current version of NeoOffice uses the LibreOffice code base, not OpenOffice. NeoOffice's contribution is to encapsulate the LibreOffice code in a Cocoa wrapper and provide full access to all the MacOS features and functions. Because Apple proscribes the use of Java for App Store release that version of NeoOffice has a very anemic database functionality. The non-app store version on the other hand has a very robust miniSQL database function together with ODBC and SQL compatibility.
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