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#48433 - 03/30/18 01:14 PM A virtual PC for one software
kevs Offline


Registered: 12/07/09
At some point I may have to get a virtual OS to run a copy of dreamweaver which is not 64 bit. Does anyone have a recommendation on that and how it would be done?

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#48440 - 03/30/18 01:44 PM Re: A virtual PC for one software [Re: kevs]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
I know nothing from virtual, but why can't you simply keep a partition with a 32 bit capable version of macOS installed on it?
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#48442 - 03/30/18 02:26 PM Re: A virtual PC for one software [Re: kevs]
joemikeb Offline

Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas
You might give this a try, but whether that will allow you to run 32 bit apps or not, is an open question. Artie's suggestion may be your best option.
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#48446 - 03/30/18 05:20 PM Re: A virtual PC for one software [Re: joemikeb]
kevs Offline


Registered: 12/07/09
Thanks ok Joe/ Artie, how does one do Arties idea?

So I pick the last OS version that runs 32 bit apps and where does one make the partition?

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#48448 - 03/30/18 05:52 PM Re: A virtual PC for one software [Re: kevs]
joemikeb Offline

Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas
Personally I would use an external drive, not a partition. Install the current version of MacOS on that drive along with Dreamweaver. Then when you want to use Dreamweaver reboot your Mac while holding down the Option key and the select the drive containing Dreamweaver and boot from that. When you want to use your other newer apps, repeat the process but this time select your internal drive. You won't be able to use both OS versions at the same time.

As a safety measure I would retain backups of both drives in case either fails.
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#48449 - 03/30/18 05:59 PM Re: A virtual PC for one software [Re: joemikeb]
kevs Offline


Registered: 12/07/09
Ok Joe, I just bought a 1 terrabyte external last week to backup my120GB laptop every 2 months, only $50 or so.

So I may as well just get this going now? And you suggest to buy 2 drives as corruption can happen...

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#48464 - 03/31/18 10:30 AM Re: A virtual PC for one software [Re: kevs]
joemikeb Offline

Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas
  1. All drives fail — it is just a matter of time, and McGillicudy's corollary to Murphey's Law holds that If anything can happen, it will — and at the worst possible time
  2. Going without a backup is tempting fate and Murphey's Law
  3. Consider the impact if you were to lose either the drive with Dreamweaver on it or the main drive.
  4. There was a time when some sort of volume corruption was the most common form of drive failure, but these days it seems more likely the drive mechanism is more likely fail — so backing up to a partition/volume on the same drive is putting all your eggs in one basket.
  5. a separate backup drive as likely to fail as the drive being backed up but the odds thaat both will fail at the same time are much higher.
You do the math. I don't know what you are backing your internal drive up to but one possibility might be:
  1. Clone your existing system to the new 1TB drive you just got and use that as your Dreamweaver drive.
  2. Get a second external drive and make it a big one say 2 or even 4 GB, depending on the size of your internal drive.
  3. If you use Time Machine...
    1. use this big drive as the Time Machine drive for both the regular and Dreamweaver volumes. No partitionng is required because Time Machine will treat each backup as a different Mac and create separate sparse image bundles for the backups.
    2. NOTE: If you already have a Time Machine Backup drive Time Machine will happily use two different volumes althernating between the two and thereby further increasing the odds in your favor.
  4. If you use a clone as a backup…
    1. Get a 2GB external drive and partition it half and half
    2. Clone your internal drive to one partition and the Deamweaver drive to the other.
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#48465 - 03/31/18 10:51 AM Re: A virtual PC for one software [Re: joemikeb]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Great analysis, but adding HDD v SSD to the mix would make it better.
_________________________
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory Of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire

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#48470 - 03/31/18 02:08 PM Re: A virtual PC for one software [Re: joemikeb]
kevs Offline


Registered: 12/07/09
thanks JOe, well, I have many backups going right now, one backup HD here and one at bank.

But for this micro-project, you would not try to use preexiting drives right? It's best to buy 2 new small drives just for OS and DW and they can live on same drive no? I'll have the install somewhere else. BTW where is the OS install in app folder right?
And should I wait right up till 32 bit software does not work, when will that be?

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#48472 - 03/31/18 05:34 PM Re: A virtual PC for one software [Re: kevs]
joemikeb Offline

Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas
Just to be sure you understand, it is MacOS that will not be supporting 32 bit applications so you will have to have two separate and complete bootable MacOS volumes. One with say MacOS 10.13.x that will run 32 bit applications such as your ancient copy of Dreamweaver and another with MacOS 10.14 or 10.15 which will not run your 32bit Dreamweaver but will run all the latest apps. (NOTE: I am using MacOS 10.13 in my discussion because I am not sure if 32 bit apps will be turned off in MacOS 10.14 that will be released late this autumn (2018) or MacOS 10.15 in the same time frame of 2019.)

Both volumes will be a complete MacOS installation and Dreamweaver would be lodged in the /Applications folder of the MacOS 10.13 volume as I am confident it is now. If I were you I would set both systems to put the Desktop and Documents folders on your iCloud Drive which would make each boot volume share the same Desktop and documents. In fact I would put as much as possible on iCloud to assure everything remains synchronized. That might also obviate the need for either your backup at home or the one at the bank and save you the cost of an additional drive — assuming you have a good internet connection at both locations.

The apps on the two volumes will probably not remain synchronized as older app versions may not run on newer versions of MacOS and vice versa. You would also need to be careful of accessing some data files because databases and Libraries are often updated by newer app versions making them incompatible with the older versions of the app that may be on the Dreamweaver/MacOS 10.13 volume. (I nearly lost five years of accounting data that way but Time Machine saved me and I only lost five months of that data.)

Is that clear as mud yet❓
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#48474 - 03/31/18 06:04 PM Re: A virtual PC for one software [Re: joemikeb]
kevs Offline


Registered: 12/07/09
Thanks Joe, darn, I only understood a bit of that.. gist.

Now, I have a 3 TB external for Mac OS at home, and another for Data, and another 8 TB Time machine, and another 3TB at the bank, and I use a cloud based backup, which I've never had to use which is $60, think going up to $120 yr...

But for this issue, DW, and maybe also an old copy of Quicken that I like, why not just then buy 2 new externals of 1 TB each, small and thin, and boot into them as needed? I'm on 10.12.6 now. I usually like to wait 8 months before upgrading OS... but anyway, I'll just wait for 13, and then do all this no? When I upgrade to 13, Mac puts a folder of the new OS, 13 in my apps right ? Then just copy that to the new small hardrives?

Oh, it's Crashplan I use, in case of nuclear war and both my house and my bank burned down...

But could icloud take place of Crachplan? I suppose though Apple would charge as much...?

It would be nice to have a tiny partition in the OS for the old OS, for just the few 32 bit apps and then I would not have to buy or plug in the new tiny hard drives, but it sounds quite hairy to make that happen.. (create partitions into externals I already have..)

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#48477 - 04/01/18 06:13 AM Re: A virtual PC for one software [Re: kevs]
joemikeb Offline

Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas
Originally Posted By: kevs
Now, I have a 3 TB external for Mac OS at home, and another for Data, and another 8 TB Time machine, and another 3TB at the bank, and I use a cloud based backup, which I've never had to use which is $60, think going up to $120 yr…

Just be glad you hav never had to use your clue based backup.
Originally Posted By: kevs
But for this issue, DW, and maybe also an old copy of Quicken that I like, why not just then buy 2 new externals of 1 TB each, small and thin, and boot into them as needed?

That is what Artie and I were proposing. NOTE: 1TB drives may be overkill 256GB should be ample unless you are loading a lot of data on the drive. That might bring an external SSD into an acceptable price range and give you better performance.
Originally Posted By: kevs
I'm on 10.12.6 now. I usually like to wait 8 months before upgrading OS... but anyway, I'll just wait for 13, and then do all this no? When I upgrade to 13, Mac puts a folder of the new OS, 13 in my apps right ? Then just copy that to the new small hardrives?

Wrong! You need to either install the OS on the external drives. Just copying a folder will not work. The installation will also create Recovery drives on the external disks as well — and that can be invaluable if you ever have to use it.
Originally Posted By: kevs
Oh, it's Crashplan I use, in case of nuclear war and both my house and my bank burned down...

But could icloud take place of Crachplan? I suppose though Apple would charge as much…?

It is hard to compare Apples iCloud to other online backup plans as Apple provides free storage for items purchased through the App Store or iTunes Sore. but their monthly rates are 50GB — 99¢, 200GB — $2.99, 2TB — $9.99.
Originally Posted By: kevs
It would be nice to have a tiny partition in the OS for the old OS, for just the few 32 bit apps and then I would not have to buy or plug in the new tiny hard drives, but it sounds quite hairy to make that happen.. (create partitions into externals I already have..)

Your terminology "It would be nice to have a tiny partition in the OS for the old OS" is confusing because you cannot partition an OS, you can only partition a drive. The latter is doable, but as you surmise there are complications and the external drives would be a lot easier for you to maintain. Remember too that you will be applying updates, security patches, and even possible upgrades to the various OS configurations in the future.


Edited by joemikeb (04/01/18 06:33 AM)
Edit Reason: Clarify iCloud pricing
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#48480 - 04/01/18 08:21 AM Re: A virtual PC for one software [Re: joemikeb]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: joemikeb
Just be glad you hav never had to use your clue based backup.

Dictation apparently hasn't got a clue about clouds. tongue
_________________________
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory Of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire

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#48483 - 04/01/18 01:58 PM Re: A virtual PC for one software [Re: joemikeb]
kevs Offline


Registered: 12/07/09
Thanks Joe:

Seagate 1TB Backup Plus Slim Portable External USB 3.0 Hard Drive
$53, nothing is cheaper! Even 256gb flash drives are a tad more.

"You need to either install the OS on the external drives" - Of course, what I meant was first you need to move the install OS folder to it no? Or...? Have never installed an OS to an external

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#48485 - 04/01/18 02:12 PM Re: A virtual PC for one software [Re: kevs]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: kevs
Seagate 1TB Backup Plus Slim Portable External USB 3.0 Hard Drive
$53, nothing is cheaper! Even 256gb flash drives are a tad more.

Quite possibly correct, but if you crave speed and/or a solution with no moving parts, i.e. one that's far less likely to fail, a SSD is the way to go.

Originally Posted By: kevs
"You need to either install the OS on the external drives" - Of course, what I meant was first you need to move the install OS folder to it no? Or...? Have never installed an OS to an external

The installer, Install macOS High Sierra.app, for instance, lives in the /Applications folder of the volume to which you download it, but when you launch it it gives you your choice of EVERY connected volume, i.e. drive or partition, as an installation target.

(If you move the installer to an otherwise empty volume it will not run, because it needs an OS from which to run.)

More: Alternatively, you can clone your existing installation to your new drive and be done with it just like that (which is what I'd do).


Edited by artie505 (04/01/18 02:27 PM)
Edit Reason: More
_________________________
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory Of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire

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#48486 - 04/01/18 02:43 PM Re: A virtual PC for one software [Re: artie505]
kevs Offline


Registered: 12/07/09
Art, yeah, I forgot that Flash drives are SSD, while my new 1TB I got for backing up my laptop is not, but maybe you have a point. Will SSD flash boot up to the OS much faster?

I have not yet bought the 2 for the Dreamweaver OS project so yeah, I could go 256GB flash instead of 1 TB normal. You would not go lower than 256?

Ok I see installer, just drag that into the flash and then install OS, install DW, Quicken or anything else and it's that easy?

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#48487 - 04/01/18 03:26 PM Re: A virtual PC for one software [Re: kevs]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: kevs
Will SSD flash boot up to the OS much faster?

My experience has been that SSDs boot significantly faster than HDDs; the degree of difference is variable, but it will still be significant in any realistic circumstances of which I'm aware.

Originally Posted By: kevs
You would not go lower than 256?

It all depends on how much space for data you're going to need. 256 would suit me just fine, but it's your needs that govern.

Originally Posted By: kevs
Ok I see installer, just drag that into the flash and then install OS, install DW, Quicken or anything else and it's that easy?

It's almost that easy, but you've got to run the macOS installer from a BOOTED operating system. (The installer, itself, is NOT bootable, although a bootable installer can be created if you want to go to the trouble.)
_________________________
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory Of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire

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#48488 - 04/01/18 07:31 PM Re: A virtual PC for one software [Re: artie505]
kevs Offline


Registered: 12/07/09
I'm saying you would not go lower than 256 GB flash drive?

Then how does one put an OS onto a new hardrive?

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#48489 - 04/01/18 07:46 PM Re: A virtual PC for one software [Re: kevs]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: kevs
I'm saying you would not go lower than 256 GB flash drive?

What I would do is of no consequence.

The determining factor is how much more space than macOS's ~15-20 GB requirement you'll need to store apps, data, etc. on the drive; 128 GB may be more than sufficient, but only you can make the determination.

Originally Posted By: kevs
Then how does one put an OS onto a new hardrive?

One rereads post #48485.
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The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

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