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#48329 - 03/22/18 07:19 AM Re: Anyone using Office? Advice on upgrading. [Re: kevs]
MacManiac Online
Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Paradise....on the central Ore...
Apparently Artie and I are dealing in 2 very different marketplaces.....he's advocating the auction / bidding process on eBay and I'm advocating dealing with a retail discount through a more established retail marketplace. Both will work for an end-user, but the auction process has more moving pieces....the $30 price cited above was the OPENING BID price in an auction that has now seen the price rise to close to double, and there remains lots of time before the auction closes, so that price will continue to rise as bidding continues.

I shopped and compared online at Amazon, Fry's Electronics, NewEgg, BD Photo, Best Buy, Walmart, etc in order to find the most reasonable price for ease of purchase now rather than working the auction timing on eBay.

If you have the time and patience and understanding of the process, eBay can provide many bargains and I have shopped there a lot in the past.....for this particular need, I chose otherwise.
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#48330 - 03/22/18 08:02 AM Re: Anyone using Office? Advice on upgrading. [Re: MacManiac]
ryck Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Okanagan Valley
Originally Posted By: MacManiac
I agree that 64 bit applications are soon to become a requirement to work under future versions of Mac OS.....for now, 32 bit apps are still supported through the current Mac OS. I updated to Office 2016 for this reason.

I’m currently using 2011 and was pleased that it continued to work with my upgrade to Sierra. However, it’s silly to think that will go on forever, so I’m thinking I’ll get on the 64 bit horse sooner rather than later.

At the Microsoft site I did see one disconcerting statement:

“Office 2016 suites, including Office Home & Student and Home & Business, include applications such as Word, Excel, PowerPoint, and OneNote; they are available as a one-time purchase for use on a single PC or Mac. The applications are not automatically updated; to get the latest version, you must purchase Office again when the new version becomes available.”

Am I safe to assume “latest version” does not mean the regular updates for improvements or security?


Edited by ryck (03/22/18 08:03 AM)
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#48331 - 03/22/18 09:24 AM Re: Anyone using Office? Advice on upgrading. [Re: ryck]
grelber Offline


Registered: 08/05/09
Loc: North of 49th ||
Originally Posted By: ryck
... At the Microsoft site I did see one disconcerting statement:
“Office 2016 suites, including Office Home & Student and Home & Business, include applications such as Word, Excel, PowerPoint, and OneNote; they are available as a one-time purchase for use on a single PC or Mac. The applications are not automatically updated; to get the latest version, you must purchase Office again when the new version becomes available.”

Am I safe to assume “latest version” does not mean the regular updates for improvements or security?

Lacking the clarity which Microsoft usually provides, I would read it literally, namely that Microsoft is going to try to squeeze blood from as many stones as possible (ie, all updates would require repurchase of the suite) — after all, Bill Gates needs a raise. tongue

Given earlier discussion in this thread, I figure that we have a good 5-6 years of being able to use Office for the Mac 2011 before our desire to upgrade our macOSes to 64-bit-only versions. At that point there may be alternatives to Office for the 2016 or its successor which are more viable.

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#48332 - 03/22/18 09:50 AM Re: Anyone using Office? Advice on upgrading. [Re: MacManiac]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Not to just brush off kevs's Bonanza.com find, I took a look and found $40 (not $30) offerings that actually look kosher on the surface: they email you a key that they say enables you to d/l directly from Microsoft.

But even accepting those offerings at face value, I like "hard" media (I paid $10 for a TechTool Pro disc. crazy ), so I'd opt to pay more for Microsoft packaging on eBay, and with an 18 month window I'm under no pressure to buy now and pay more for the privilege, and can watch and wait.

One of the things I love about eBay is that my time v reward factor is very favorable. YAY! grin

Ya takes yer choice, and ya pays yer money. grin
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#48333 - 03/22/18 10:06 AM Re: Anyone using Office? Advice on upgrading. [Re: grelber]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: grelber
Originally Posted By: ryck
... At the Microsoft site I did see one disconcerting statement:
“Office 2016 suites, including Office Home & Student and Home & Business, include applications such as Word, Excel, PowerPoint, and OneNote; they are available as a one-time purchase for use on a single PC or Mac. The applications are not automatically updated; to get the latest version, you must purchase Office again when the new version becomes available.”

Am I safe to assume “latest version” does not mean the regular updates for improvements or security?

Lacking the clarity which Microsoft usually provides, I would read it literally, namely that Microsoft is going to try to squeeze blood from as many stones as possible (ie, all updates would require repurchase of the suite) — after all, Bill Gates needs a raise. tongue

Given earlier discussion in this thread, I figure that we have a good 5-6 years of being able to use Office for the Mac 2011 before our desire to upgrade our macOSes to 64-bit-only versions. At that point there may be alternatives to Office for the 2016 or its successor which are more viable.

I'll guess that ryck's quote means that subscribers will be upgraded to newer versions of Office as part of their subscriptions whereas purchasers will have to, well, purchase them...same as now...nothing new.

I can't see Microsoft charging for incremental updates which are traditionally free.

As for how long you can run Office 11? How long did you run OS 9?
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#48334 - 03/22/18 10:18 AM Re: Anyone using Office? Advice on upgrading. [Re: artie505]
kevs Offline


Registered: 12/07/09
Rick wrote,

"The applications are not automatically updated; to get the latest version, you must purchase Office again when the new version becomes available.”

Joe you want to pipe in?

I'm assuming, as Artie is noting, I think, that they are saying you are with 2016 and that's it.. now that we live in the world of subscription/ leasing, where people are getting used to the new wham bam wiz features daily.

And this is fine for me and Rick. We don't care we have 2016 in 6-7 years. As long as it keeps working right? Then other issue of updating, whatever gets updated over the months years, as I've been seeing for 2011. What are those updates? Just little trinkets or security things? Those continue? And if not does it matter?

Thanks Mac, will probably take your advice and buy from the legit retail outlets.. otherwise, it 40% chance bogus...


Edited by kevs (03/22/18 10:22 AM)

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#48335 - 03/22/18 11:33 AM Re: Anyone using Office? Advice on upgrading. [Re: artie505]
ryck Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Okanagan Valley
Originally Posted By: artie505
I can't see Microsoft charging for incremental updates which are traditionally free.

That would be my assumption too, given the history of getting updates automatically, except the words are very specific "....applications are not automatically updated".

I wonder what MacManiac's experience has been with 2016......getting the security and other updates automatically?


Edited by ryck (03/22/18 11:35 AM)
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#48336 - 03/22/18 11:43 AM Re: Anyone using Office? Advice on upgrading. [Re: ryck]
kevs Offline


Registered: 12/07/09
Or if Joe jumps back in he might have an opinon...

BTW do any of you use Quicken? I'm on Quicken Mac 2007, and they say the last pre subsciption is 2017, but I can't find a place that sells it.

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#48337 - 03/22/18 11:44 AM Re: Anyone using Office? Advice on upgrading. [Re: grelber]
ryck Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Okanagan Valley
Originally Posted By: grelber
Given earlier discussion in this thread, I figure that we have a good 5-6 years of being able to use Office for the Mac 2011 before our desire to upgrade our macOSes to 64-bit-only versions.

Except, considering what artie said earlier, that could mean sacrificing the ability to update our system software which, given various security issues, might not be wise.

Originally Posted By: artie505
....since it's 32 bit, it will run only through macOS 10.14 (the next version, which is due out in the fall), but maybe not with full functionality, and it absolutely will NOT run in macOS 10.15.

My other concern would be if they stop publishing 2016 and it becomes difficult to acquire (like keys' Quicken in the post above), which is a key in my thinking about 'getting with 64 bit' now rather than later.


Edited by ryck (03/22/18 12:05 PM)
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iMac (Retina 5K, 27", 2017), 3.4 GHz Intel Core i5, 8GB RAM, 2400 MHz DDR4
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Time Machine on 320GB OWC Mercury OTG Pro
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#48338 - 03/22/18 11:47 AM Re: Anyone using Office? Advice on upgrading. [Re: ryck]
kevs Offline


Registered: 12/07/09
Ryck, Office 2016 is 64 bit no?

And you are saying, for next 5-6 years, it could have security issues for the Mac OS if Microsoft drops the ball and does not send the usual updates we have been getting over the years with 2011?

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1266124-REG/microsoft_gza_00850_office_home_student.html

Specs, don't talk about 32 bit 64 bit... whereas with Widows specs they do... are we all sure this is an issue.. that Mac will need 64 bit?


Edited by kevs (03/22/18 11:50 AM)

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#48340 - 03/22/18 12:01 PM Re: Anyone using Office? Advice on upgrading. [Re: kevs]
ryck Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Okanagan Valley
Originally Posted By: kevs
Ryck, Office 2016 is 64 bit no?

I believe so, as I haven't heard otherwise in this thread.

Originally Posted By: kevs
And you are saying, for next 5-6 years, it could have security issues for the Mac OS if Microsoft drops the ball and does not send the usual updates we have been getting over the years with 2011?

This is what I'm thinking:

• We have come to the end of updates for 2011 so we'd have to rely on 2016 to maintain security and/or other improvements.

• Microsoft's words inject some doubt about getting the 2016 updates without a cost. I hear what artie is saying about the assumption that updates should be provided as usual. Maybe I've been involved with various versions of contract language too long but I've always found: "The words matter".

• If updates have a cost, it wouldn't be Microsoft "dropping the ball" but rather enhancing their bottom line as grelber earlier opined. And, if that's the case, it may or may not be an issue if the charge is small.


Edited by ryck (03/22/18 12:02 PM)
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Time Machine on 320GB OWC Mercury OTG Pro
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#48342 - 03/22/18 12:13 PM Re: Anyone using Office? Advice on upgrading. [Re: kevs]
Pendragon Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Georgetown, Texas, USA
Kevs,

Please contact me: ****pndrgnsvc))))AT//aoldotcom I may be able to help with your Quicken 2017 issue.
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#48343 - 03/22/18 12:13 PM Re: Anyone using Office? Advice on upgrading. [Re: ryck]
kevs Offline


Registered: 12/07/09
Ok but BH photo does not list it as 64 bit.

Anyone on this thread own Mac Office 2016, and/ or Quicken 2017 and can verify they are 64 bit? Thanks

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#48344 - 03/22/18 12:15 PM Re: Anyone using Office? Advice on upgrading. [Re: Pendragon]
kevs Offline


Registered: 12/07/09
Thanks Harv, sent email.. check spam to be safe, appreciate it.

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#48347 - 03/22/18 12:47 PM Re: Anyone using Office? Advice on upgrading. [Re: kevs]
Urquhart Offline


Registered: 08/10/17
Loc: Netherlands
Originally Posted By: kevs
64 bit Mac Office 2016

Microsoft themselves say that they transitioned Office 2016 to 64 bit last year (August), by version 15.25, for all license types.

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#48348 - 03/22/18 12:53 PM Re: Anyone using Office? Advice on upgrading. [Re: Urquhart]
kevs Offline


Registered: 12/07/09
Thanks U for that confirmation. Ok probably going roll with Amazon (BH photo would be my 2nd choice, but I think Amazon is a even a tad better with refund issues)

No better rate I've found $129.00 anyone else ?

And U or others, have an opinion on Ryck's concerns on them updating over the years 2016? Would you not buy this per that issue?

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#48350 - 03/22/18 01:02 PM Re: Anyone using Office? Advice on upgrading. [Re: artie505]
grelber Offline


Registered: 08/05/09
Loc: North of 49th ||
Originally Posted By: artie505
As for how long you can run Office 11? How long did you run OS 9?

On my Apple iMac DV SE G3 I ran OS 9 from 2000 to 2011 (and then until mid-2017 when I finally recycled it).
I used OS 9 on other (institutional) Macs for a while before that (ie, since its inception).
So I'm good to squeeze out however much time I might have with El Capitan and perforce Office for the Mac 2011.

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#48355 - 03/24/18 12:37 AM Re: Anyone using Office? Advice on upgrading. [Re: kevs]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: kevs
Thanks Mac, will probably take your advice and buy from the legit retail outlets.. otherwise, it 40% chance bogus...

Have you got a source for that "40% chance bogus"?

I won't even begin to try to convince you that there's no bootleg Office 2016 on eBay, because I know for a fact that there is (I also know that a lot of people have bought it and been happy with it, i.e. the price, because it's apparently fully functional, albeit illegitimate.), but I've had experience with eBay, Office 2011 in particular, and if what you get is not what was described in the listing, they cover you.
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#48356 - 03/24/18 12:45 AM Re: Anyone using Office? Advice on upgrading. [Re: ryck]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: ryck
Originally Posted By: artie505
I can't see Microsoft charging for incremental updates which are traditionally free.

That would be my assumption too, given the history of getting updates automatically, except the words are very specific "....applications are not automatically updated".

Originally Posted By: |Microsoft Store
What's the difference between Office 365 plans and Office 2016 suites?
Office 365 plans include the complete suite of Office applications, plus other services that are enabled over the Internet, including extra cloud storage with OneDrive and Skype minutes for home use. With Office 365 you get the full, installed Office experience on PCs, Macs, tablets (including Windows, iPad, and Android) and smartphones. Office 365 plans are available as a monthly or annual subscription. With Office 365, upgrades are always included with your subscription. (Emphasis added)

I think that addresses your concerns. (Just plain lousy nomenclature on Microsoft's part.)
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The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

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#48357 - 03/24/18 01:00 AM Re: Anyone using Office? Advice on upgrading. [Re: ryck]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: ryck
If updates have a cost, it wouldn't be Microsoft "dropping the ball" but rather enhancing their bottom line as grelber earlier opined. And, if that's the case, it may or may not be an issue if the charge is small.

You've already posted "The applications are not automatically updated; to get the latest version, you must purchase Office again when the new version becomes available."

That's NOT a small charge!

Nah, I'll stick with my guess. (Again, just plain lousy nomenclature on Microsoft's part.)
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#48358 - 03/24/18 07:21 AM Re: Anyone using Office? Advice on upgrading. [Re: artie505]
joemikeb Online
Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas
Again from my experience in Microsoft Tech Support: illegitimate versions of Microsoft products, are never eligible for upgrade pricing. With the rental pricing model the update/upgrade line gets blurred beyond recognition because version upgrades are considered an update the previous version. It is how Microsoft makes software rental attractive to corporate IT and accounting departments and thereby maintain their cashflow.
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#48360 - 03/24/18 08:57 AM Re: Anyone using Office? Advice on upgrading. [Re: joemikeb]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
You're out of context.

ryck was wondering about Microsoft's language that suggests that legitimate purchasers of the Office 2016 suite will be charged for updates as well as upgrades.
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The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

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#48367 - 03/24/18 02:51 PM Re: Anyone using Office? Advice on upgrading. [Re: artie505]
kevs Offline


Registered: 12/07/09
Joe, the final question is: I one buys Office 2016 Mac, will they do the little tiny upgrades over the years as they have been doing for version 2011?

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#48368 - 03/24/18 06:46 PM Re: Anyone using Office? Advice on upgrading. [Re: kevs]
joemikeb Online
Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas
Originally Posted By: keys
Joe, the final question is: I one buys Office 2016 Mac, will they do the little tiny upgrades over the years as they have been doing for version 2011?

Microsoft spends an inordinate amount of money supporting older software versions. Long term support for older versions of software was assured because the business community was heavily invested in them and understandably reluctant to spend money on upgrades. If Microsoft has been sufficiently successful in moving corporate customers (by far their biggest cash cow) to a rental model they might decide to phase out support of the older stand alone versions in order to move the consumer base to rental or on-line products, thereby reducing Microsoft's costs and significantly improving the bottom line as well as assuring even greater locked in cash flow.

As with all such questions, only those in the front office at Redmond, Washington know the answer to your question with any degree of certainty.
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#48369 - 03/25/18 04:02 AM Re: Anyone using Office? Advice on upgrading. [Re: joemikeb]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: joemikeb
If Microsoft has been sufficiently successful in moving corporate customers (by far their biggest cash cow) to a rental model they might decide to phase out support of the older stand alone versions in order to move the consumer base to rental or on-line products, thereby reducing Microsoft's costs and significantly improving the bottom line as well as assuring even greater locked in cash flow.

Pulling all the pieces together here, kevs's anxiety relates relates back to ryck's quoted

Originally Posted By: Microsoft via ryck
Office 2016 suites, including Office Home & Student and Home & Business, include applications such as Word, Excel, PowerPoint, and OneNote; they are available as a one-time purchase for use on a single PC or Mac. The applications are not automatically updated; to get the latest version, you must purchase Office again when the new version becomes available.

and while I could maybe see Microsoft charging for incremental security and other updates to the Office 2016 suite (They've already stopped supporting earlier stand alone versions.), it doesn't seem likely that they'd require a new $130 purchase for each one.

Originally Posted By: Microsoft via artie
With Office 365, upgrades are always included with your subscription. (Emphasis added)

taken together with your "With the rental pricing model the update/upgrade line gets blurred beyond recognition because version upgrades are considered an update the previous version" sure sounds like Microsoft's copywriters have tripped over that blurred line and conveyed the erroneous impression that incremental security and other updates to Office 2016 will be treated as if they're functionality upgrades cum dates.

But as you said, "As with all such questions, only those in the front office at Redmond, Washington know the answer to your question with any degree of certainty."

Personally, though, I'll bet against kevs's fears if the price is right.
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