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#47730 - 01/29/18 08:25 AM Re: High Sierra Beta [Re: grelber]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: grelber
Previously I could just go to Dictionary and have all sorts of info, including syllabification and etymology, which were much better provided than the Dictionary bits in El Capitan. I'd love to get them back.

What I really miss is the OED, which, giant PIA that it was, I still ran for as long as I could boot into Classic Environment.
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The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

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#47731 - 01/29/18 01:33 PM Re: High Sierra Beta [Re: artie505]
grelber Offline


Registered: 08/05/09
Loc: North of 49th ||
Man, that brings back memories.

I just found the following via Mr Google, but knowing nothing about the purveyor I'm a tad wary of accessing it:

Oxford English Dictionary (free version) download for Mac OS X
https://en.freedownloadmanager.org/Mac-OS/Oxford-English-Dictionary.html

Feb 1, 2016 - Free download Oxford English Dictionary forMacOSX. Oxford English Dictionary - The foremost single-volume authority on the English language - revised and updated in 2010 to include the very latest vocabulary.

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#47732 - 01/29/18 03:32 PM Re: High Sierra Beta [Re: grelber]
joemikeb Offline
Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas
I followed the links and ended up at the App Store and a price of $9.99. I am still trying to figure out the "free" part.

I think I will wait and see if the Dictionaries return in MacOS 10.13.4 Public Bata 2.

By the way I am hitting more and more compatibility and slowdownwarnings (Apples polite way of saying 32 bit). Mostly third party non-App Store support utilities such as Fujitsu's ScanSnap, H&R Block 2017 tax program, Dymo label printing software, a couple of games no longer on the App Store, and other admittedly obscure device support apps. I have contacted the developers and they are all scrambling. A couple have sent new releases with notes asking me to let them know if I still get the warning.
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#47733 - 01/30/18 02:16 AM Re: High Sierra Beta [Re: grelber]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: grelber
Man, that brings back memories.

I just found the following via Mr Google, but knowing nothing about the purveyor I'm a tad wary of accessing it:

Oxford English Dictionary (free version) download for Mac OS X
https://en.freedownloadmanager.org/Mac-OS/Oxford-English-Dictionary.html

I beat joemike to the App Store, but dinner intervened, so he beat me to the post. Free, indeed! tongue

That's not the OED!

This is the OED. There's also an online version for a very nominal $295/year or $29.95/month. tongue

The OED was released on CD-ROM for Mac and PC (for $800) in 1992, but the 2000 update was for PCs only, and further, since the original version was for OS 9, it ran in OS X in Classic Environment only, and only through Tiger. (Running it in Classic was a MAJOR PIA!)

The guy from whom I acquired my 3rd generation copy told me that Oxford had advised him that duplication of their neither up to date nor still distributed software was cool, but I knew people who wanted it, and I didn't care to distribute bootleg $800 software, so I contacted Oxford myself, and they were like "Sure. No problem."

It's too bad I didn't know you back then, because you'd have loved the thing; it was like a gigantic educational toy! You could even go into the prefs and choose different colors for different aspects of the text. cool

I'm sorry to say that being an inveterate cleaner-upper I destroyed my copy after a few OS X versions of its obsolescence, because I never expected to find anyone who was that far behind the times. tongue frown

Damn! I really should have saved it, if only as a cherished relic. mad
_________________________
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory Of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire

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#47737 - 01/30/18 07:34 AM Re: High Sierra Beta [Re: artie505]
grelber Offline


Registered: 08/05/09
Loc: North of 49th ||
Thanks to you and joemikeb for saving me the work and the ultimate disappointment after same, re the OED.

Once upon a time — likely in that OS 9 time frame — the OED offered, as I recall, a 3-month free access to the OED and, again as I recall, there was a hack which allowed permanent free access. Of course, now all gone, bye bye.

{sigh}

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#47740 - 01/30/18 08:25 AM Re: High Sierra Beta [Re: grelber]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
The OED online still offers a free 30 day trial, but to institutions only.

I've contacted my daughter, who maaay still have a copy of the CD, and if she's got one, and you've still got your discs and can restore OS 9 to your iMac, I"ll be happy to send you a copy.
_________________________
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory Of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire

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#47741 - 01/30/18 09:47 AM Re: High Sierra Beta [Re: artie505]
grelber Offline


Registered: 08/05/09
Loc: North of 49th ||
Originally Posted By: artie505
I've contacted my daughter, who maaay still have a copy of the CD, and if she's got one, and you've still got your OS 9 discs and can restore the OS to your iMac, I'll be happy to send you a copy.

Many thanks ... but after 6 years of inactivity I finally consigned my iMac DV SE to the recycler and trashcanned the OS 9 discs last July.

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#47787 - 02/04/18 04:39 AM Re: High Sierra Beta [Re: grelber]
jonsi Offline


Registered: 01/28/18
Hold Shift and open Dictionary app
Worked for me.

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#47790 - 02/04/18 08:17 AM Re: High Sierra Beta [Re: jonsi]
joemikeb Offline
Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas
Originally Posted By: jonsi
Hold Shift and open Dictionary app
Worked for me.

THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU! Since installing MacOS 10.13.4 Public Beta 1 all my dictionaries except Wikipedia had disappeared and your suggestion restored them all to full functionality. That one goes into my list of trouble-shooting tricks.

👍


Apparently the cost of publication rights for the Oxford dictionaries is not an issue for Apple because the dictionaries that showed up on my Mac are:
  • New Oxford American Dictionary
  • Oxford American Writer's Thesaurus
  • Apple Dictionary
  • Wikipedia
  • Oxford Thesaurus of English
  • Oxford Dictionary of English
  • พจนานุกรมไทย ฉบับทันสมัยและสมบูรณ์ (that's Thai)
  • Gran Diccionario Oxford - Español-Inglés • Inglés-Español
  • Dicionário de Português licenciado para Oxford University Press
  • Толковый словарь русского языка
  • Arkadaş Türkçe Sözlük


Edited by joemikeb (02/04/18 08:36 AM)
Edit Reason: add dictionary list
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#47791 - 02/04/18 08:31 AM Re: High Sierra Beta [Re: joemikeb]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
I can't even figure out how to follow jonsi's suggestion, but I don't know if I need to. (If I select Dictionary.app in Finder and then depress "shift" and hit command-O I wind up at ~/Documents. confused )

Please list the sources you've now got in Dictionary.app.

Thanks.
_________________________
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory Of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire

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#47793 - 02/04/18 09:10 AM Re: High Sierra Beta [Re: artie505]
grelber Offline


Registered: 08/05/09
Loc: North of 49th ||
At least in El Capitan, just open Dictionary, then go to Preferences in menu toolbar. That gives you all the options, including various incorporated dictionaries which come with the OS.
(God only knows what the Apple Dictionary is. Every attempt to elicit a definition results in "No entries found".)

And I still want The American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language.

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#47794 - 02/04/18 09:23 AM Re: High Sierra Beta [Re: grelber]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Since jonsi's trick was directed at you, I was hoping that it might restore The American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language, so I was asking joemike which ones he's now got. (It didn't. frown )

(Type "OS X" in the Apple Dictionary.)
_________________________
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory Of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire

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#47796 - 02/04/18 09:35 AM Re: High Sierra Beta [Re: grelber]
joemikeb Offline
Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas
Originally Posted By: grelber
At least in El Capitan, just open Dictionary, then go to Preferences in menu toolbar. That gives you all the options, including various incorporated dictionaries which come with the OS.

In my case the list of options contained only Wikipedia — until I tried the Shift+Click.
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#47797 - 02/04/18 09:36 AM Re: High Sierra Beta [Re: joemikeb]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: joemikeb
Apparently the cost of publication rights for the Oxford dictionaries is not an issue for Apple because the dictionaries that showed up on my Mac are:
  • New Oxford American Dictionary
  • Oxford American Writer's Thesaurus
  • Apple Dictionary
  • Wikipedia
  • Oxford Thesaurus of English
  • Oxford Dictionary of English
  • พจนานุกรมไทย ฉบับทันสมัยและสมบูรณ์ (that's Thai)
  • Gran Diccionario Oxford - Español-Inglés • Inglés-Español
  • Dicionário de Português licenciado para Oxford University Press
  • Толковый словарь русского языка
  • Arkadaş Türkçe Sözlük

Or maybe not.

I noted the Oxford copyrights a while back, and they were never at issue; I suggested a possible royalty issue for the now gone The American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language.

And I don't know what's up with this, but you listed 11 dictionaries, and I"ve got 31 in Sierra, many, maybe even most, of which are more logical choices than Turkish.
_________________________
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory Of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire

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#47798 - 02/04/18 09:37 AM Re: High Sierra Beta [Re: joemikeb]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: joemikeb
n my case the list of options contained only Wikipedia — until I tried the Shift+Click.

Click on what?
_________________________
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory Of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire

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#47799 - 02/04/18 09:41 AM Re: High Sierra Beta [Re: artie505]
joemikeb Offline
Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas
Originally Posted By: artie505
(Type "OS X" in the Apple Dictionary.)

Originally Posted By: Apple Dictionary
No entries found.
Only Wikipedia has an entry for OSX or OS X either of which jump to MacOS.
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#47800 - 02/04/18 09:43 AM Re: High Sierra Beta [Re: artie505]
joemikeb Offline
Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas
Originally Posted By: artie505
Click on what?

Shift+Click on the Dictionary icon in Finder, the Dock, or Launchpad
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#47801 - 02/04/18 09:49 AM Re: High Sierra Beta [Re: joemikeb]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: joemikeb
Originally Posted By: artie505
(Type "OS X" in the Apple Dictionary.)

Originally Posted By: Apple Dictionary
No entries found.
Only Wikipedia has an entry for OSX or OS X either of which jump to MacOS.

Well, that's curious! confused

More: And my Wikipedia entry for OS X looks like the complete page.

Who'd think that an app as straightforward as Dictionary would be subject to such major changes?

Or. more likely, Dictionary is badly broken.... Strange app to have gone down in flames like that.


Edited by artie505 (02/04/18 10:15 AM)
_________________________
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory Of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire

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#47802 - 02/04/18 09:52 AM Re: High Sierra Beta [Re: joemikeb]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: joemikeb
Originally Posted By: artie505
Click on what?

Shift+Click on the Dictionary icon in Finder, the Dock, or Launchpad

Shift-click does nothing; shift-double-click launches the app with no apparent change...perhaps because there's nothing to be changed in Sierra.
_________________________
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory Of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire

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#47803 - 02/04/18 10:22 AM Re: High Sierra Beta [Re: artie505]
joemikeb Offline
Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas
In Dictionary > Preferences there are 65 Dictionaries listed including those listed under Other Languages even before the Shift+Click trick but no matter which were checked none appeared in the list of selected Dictionaries in the Dictionary window.

The list I gave became active when I opened Dictionary with a Shift+Click. The dictionaries in that list and the order of their appearance can be changed in Dictionaries > Preferences. I have no idea how Thai, Russian, or Polish ever got added to my dictionary list but they are no longer there. The Dictionaries themselves are downloaded from the internet when they are selected in Dictionary > Preferences so the time I spent looking for them previously was wasted. 🤷‍♂️

As to the dictionary licensing:
Originally Posted By: Apple Dictionary
Most text is available under the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 3.0 Unported License <http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/> and the GNU Free Documentation License <http://www.gnu.org/licenses/fdl.html>. Check the page for specific licensing terms. Wikipedia® is a registered trademark of the Wikimedia Foundation, Inc.
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#47804 - 02/04/18 11:20 AM Re: High Sierra Beta [Re: artie505]
alternaut Offline

Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: artie505
Well, that's curious! confused

Dictionary is badly broken... Strange app to have gone down in flames like that.

This sure is confusing. What exactly is curious? What makes you think Dictionary is broken? And have you selected the 'All' tab in Dictionary's window to see what's available?
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#47807 - 02/04/18 12:11 PM Re: High Sierra Beta [Re: artie505]
grelber Offline


Registered: 08/05/09
Loc: North of 49th ||
Originally Posted By: artie505
Since jonsi's trick was directed at you, I was hoping that it might restore The American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language, so I was asking joemike which ones he's now got. (It didn't. frown )

Although it was ostensibly directed at me, I didn't take it as such, since I had implied that I had already checked to see which reference materials had been included in Dictionary (under Preferences). I should have been more definitive.
El Capitan has 27 reference works listed — and sadly none is The American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language. Hence my bemoaning.

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#47808 - 02/04/18 03:25 PM Re: High Sierra Beta [Re: grelber]
joemikeb Offline
Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas
Originally Posted By: grelber
(God only knows what the Apple Dictionary is. Every attempt to elicit a definition results in "No entries found".)

And I still want The American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language.

Sorry I overlooked your comment about the Apple Dictionary. Try terms specific to the Apple Environment such as:
  • Dock A feature of macOS, the Dock is located along the edge of the screen. It contains icons that you can click to open many of the apps available on the computer, and you can drag icons to and from the Dock.
  • Apple File System A file system from Apple for iOS, macOS, tvOS, and watchOS. It’s used to store data on Apple devices. See also APFS.
  • APFS A file system from Apple for iOS, macOS, tvOS, and watchOS. It’s used to store data on Apple devices. See also APFS. (On second thought that one may not appear in El Capitan)
…but in truth the content is relatively scanty and pretty rudimentary from what I have seen.

The American Heritage Dictionary is available in the App Store, but ONLY for iOS Devices. In fact of the 120 some odd dictionaries cataloged in the MacOS App Store there is a dearth of familiar names. All the old American English standbys such as American Heritage, and Websters are missing. However, they are available as iOS Apps for the iPhone and iPad — for a price.

In case you may be wondering why they ar eon iOS and not MacOS, I suggest you, "follow the money." There are literally millions more iPhones and iPads and therefore customers than there are Macs. Personally I am looking forward to a time when we will be able to run iOS apps on our Macs.
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#47810 - 02/04/18 05:19 PM Re: High Sierra Beta [Re: joemikeb]
grelber Offline


Registered: 08/05/09
Loc: North of 49th ||
Originally Posted By: joemikeb
In case you may be wondering why they are on iOS and not MacOS, I suggest you "follow the money." There are literally millions more iPhones and iPads and therefore customers than there are Macs. Personally I am looking forward to a time when we will be able to run iOS apps on our Macs.

Amen. tongue mad

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#47814 - 02/05/18 02:31 AM Re: High Sierra Beta [Re: joemikeb]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: joemikeb
In Dictionary > Preferences there are 65 Dictionaries listed including those listed under Other Languages even before the Shift+Click trick but no matter which were checked none appeared in the list of selected Dictionaries in the Dictionary window.

....

As to the dictionary licensing:
Originally Posted By: Apple Dictionary
Most text is available under the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 3.0 Unported License <http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/> and the GNU Free Documentation License <http://www.gnu.org/licenses/fdl.html>. Check the page for specific licensing terms. Wikipedia® is a registered trademark of the Wikimedia Foundation, Inc.

I remembered that I've still got a 10.13.3 volume and booted into it...

In Dictionary > Preferences I've got 33 dictionaries listed, and those that appear in my 10.12.6 Dictionary window appear in my 10.13.3 window...no tricks necessary. (Screenshot [entirely from 10.13.3] includes licensing, i.e. copyright, info.)

The licensing info you've posted is specific to Wikipedia; Apple Dictionary is specifically copyrighted by Apple, and all others are either specifically copyrighted by or Licensed to Oxford University Press, i.e. paid content (under ordinary circumstances, anyhow).
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