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Cookie/Keychain weirdness
#47016 11/25/17 08:26 AM
Joined: Aug 2009
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As one of my login items, Cookie's icon has always appeared in my menu bar virtually immediately after any login. (It's my cookie management app if it's important.)

Beginning after a recent update, though, Cookie has not launched until after I've entered my login keychain password (which differs from my login password).

The developer's got no idea what may have happened, and I don't see anything in any of my keychains that looks like it could be the culprit.

Does anyone know what would make an app's launching dependent on an unlocked keychain?

Thanks.

More: I forgot to mention that Cookie does not appear in System Prefs > Users & Groups > Login Items, rather it launches by different means (with which I'm unfamiliar).

Last edited by artie505; 11/25/17 11:49 AM. Reason: More

The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire
Re: Cookie/Keychain weirdness
artie505 #47018 11/25/17 02:34 PM
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Originally Posted By: artie505
More: I forgot to mention that Cookie does not appear in System Prefs > Users & Groups > Login Items, rather it launches by different means (with which I'm unfamiliar).

That "different mans" is almost certainly via a .plist in /Library/LaunchDaemons, /Library/LaunchAgents, or ~/Library/LaunchAgents. This method of launching is now preferred by Apple (and I believe Login Items has been deprecated). LaunchDaemons Run at boot while LaunchAgents run at login so Cookie is probably being started by a LaunchAgent. See this article for more information. It may be another LaunchAgent, that accesses keychain, is blocking the launch of Cookie until it completes?


If we knew what it was we were doing, it wouldn't be called research, would it?

— Albert Einstein
Re: Cookie/Keychain weirdness
joemikeb #47021 11/25/17 05:34 PM
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Re: " . . . and I believe Login Items has been deprecated."

----------------


LOGIN ITEMS still appears in User/Groups in SIERRA.

Is the new "launching process" something new to HIGH SIERRA?

As a side note: When I installed HIGH SIERRA, I kept getting annoying and persistent popups to sign in to my Keychain . . . no matter what app I opened AND every time I opened it. This happened with both Apple and Third Party apps. It seemed like Keychain was not remembering my passwords.

Since I nuked my HD and re-installed (back to) SIERRA, the problem has not once resurfaced.

Re: Cookie/Keychain weirdness
MG2009 #47026 11/25/17 09:56 PM
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Originally Posted By: MG2009
LOGIN ITEMS still appears in User/Groups in SIERRA.

Is the new "launching process" something new to HIGH SIERRA?

The "new launching process" has been around for a good while now. I don't remember when it first appeared but I am thinking Mavericks (OS X 10.9) maybe even earlier. Apple has been urging app developers to use the LaunchItems/LaunchDaemons since that time. The idea is to get as much as possible under the control of launchd and launchctl to schedule and control launching of apps/utilities/etc. so that they don't inadvertently (or intentionally) interfere with one another and help assure reliability and security. You haven't noticed it because installing the LaunchDeamons and LaunchAgents is taken care either by the installer when an app is installed or by the app itself when you check the box labeled Start at login (or something similar).

Although Login Items has been deprecated and generally is eschewed by developers it is still present in High Sierra, probably because it is a simple way for users to launch apps automatically at login time, but even there I think there have been changes under the hood in how that is implemented in the OS. For anyone with a modicum of programming skills writing a LaunchAgent for just about any app is not that difficult (for more info open Terminal and enter…
Code:
man launchd.plist
But there are a lot of users with zero programming skills and even less interest in acquiring any, so Login Items still sticks around — at least for now.

For details on launchd, LaunchDaemons, and LaunchAgents go to Terminal and enter…
Code:
man launchd


If we knew what it was we were doing, it wouldn't be called research, would it?

— Albert Einstein
Re: Cookie/Keychain weirdness
joemikeb #47031 11/26/17 04:52 AM
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Thanks for the added info.

Re: Cookie/Keychain weirdness
MG2009 #47036 11/26/17 10:20 PM
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Originally Posted By: MG2009
As a side note: When I installed HIGH SIERRA, I kept getting annoying and persistent popups to sign in to my Keychain . . . no matter what app I opened AND every time I opened it. This happened with both Apple and Third Party apps. It seemed like Keychain was not remembering my passwords.

Since I nuked my HD and re-installed (back to) SIERRA, the problem has not once resurfaced.

My passwords weren't migrated from my Sierra installation when I upgraded to High Sierra, and I was forced to revert. (I documented my experiences beginning here.)

After much aggravation I finally pinned my problem down to my login and keychain passwords NOT being the same; my situation improved somewhat in 10.13.1, but not sufficiently for me to remain in High Sierra...waiting for 10.13.2.


The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire
Re: Cookie/Keychain weirdness
joemikeb #47038 11/27/17 12:02 PM
Joined: Aug 2009
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Originally Posted By: joemikeb
Originally Posted By: artie505
More: I forgot to mention that Cookie does not appear in System Prefs > Users & Groups > Login Items, rather it launches by different means (with which I'm unfamiliar).

That "different mans" is almost certainly via a .plist in /Library/LaunchDaemons, /Library/LaunchAgents, or ~/Library/LaunchAgents. This method of launching is now preferred by Apple (and I believe Login Items has been deprecated). LaunchDaemons Run at boot while LaunchAgents run at login so Cookie is probably being started by a LaunchAgent. See this article for more information. It may be another LaunchAgent, that accesses keychain, is blocking the launch of Cookie until it completes?

Cookie's developer just linked me to The Launch At Login Sandbox Project, which is both how Cookie launches and pretty much, if not totally, beyond my comprehension.

He says he's been using the exact same methodology, i.e. no changes in the code, since Snowy.

I finally tried launching Cookie in a pristine test user account and ran into the same problem as in my login account with all its other login type items.

I'm going to try to forget about this issue, because in the end, its merely an anomalous annoyance that doesn't add any extra steps or time to my login.


The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire

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