An open community 
of Macintosh users,
for Macintosh users.

FineTunedMac Dashboard widget now available! Download Here

Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 3 of 7 1 2 3 4 5 6 7
Re: High Sierra Beta
artie505 #46495 09/29/17 08:26 PM
Joined: Aug 2009
Likes: 7
Online

Joined: Aug 2009
Likes: 7
It looks like your original problem was similar to the one in this Apple Discussions thread. Thanks for posting your issues, Artie. I'm glad that I haven't taken the plunge yet. Is this your post? It has a different user name.

Last edited by jchuzi; 09/29/17 08:27 PM.

Jon

macOS 11.7.10, iMac Retina 5K 27-inch, late 2014, 3.5 GHz Intel Core i5, 1 TB fusion drive, 16 GB RAM, Epson SureColor P600, Photoshop CC, Lightroom CC, MS Office 365
Re: High Sierra Beta
artie505 #46496 09/29/17 09:40 PM
Joined: Aug 2009
Offline

Joined: Aug 2009
I'm sorry, but I'm not clearly following your sequence.

Here's a link to HS Clean Install by iMore

Is that what you did?

BTW, I'm not having any issues with HS. And as I have an SSD, my local volume is now using APFS.


MacStudio M1max - 14.4.1, 64 GB Ram, 4TB SSD; Studio Display; iPhone 13mini; Watch 9; iPadPro (M2) 11" WiFi
Re: High Sierra Beta
jchuzi #46503 09/30/17 07:27 AM
Joined: Aug 2009
Likes: 15
Online

Joined: Aug 2009
Likes: 15
Originally Posted By: jchuzi
It looks like your original problem was similar to the one in this Apple Discussions thread. Thanks for posting your issues, Artie. I'm glad that I haven't taken the plunge yet. Is this your post? It has a different user name.

I used to be of the same mind as you, Jon, but since beta testers like joemike now do the heavy lifting, I don't mind giving them a belated hand, particularly since SSDs, USB 3, and Fios have made undoing any repercussions miraculously easier than it used to be.

I've done a lot of beta-testing over the years, and I'd beta-test macOS too, but I'm not enough of a user to do a quality job, and I don't think Apple is ceding betas to find out about TextEdit and Mail. tongue

(Nope, that's not me Jon; I'm exclusively an FTM guy. laugh )


The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire
Re: High Sierra Beta
pbGuy #46504 09/30/17 07:54 AM
Joined: Aug 2009
Likes: 15
Online

Joined: Aug 2009
Likes: 15
Originally Posted By: pbGuy
I'm sorry, but I'm not clearly following your sequence.

Here's a link to HS Clean Install by iMore

Is that what you did?

That's not a very well thought out article...incomplete at the least, but I follow its drift, and that's not what I did, because the procedure it describes results in an APFS High Sierra on an internal SSD while I wanted mine HFS+.

So, in order to get a HFS+ High Sierra on my internal SSD I first ran the installer on an external volume, where it installed as HFS+ by default, and then cloned that volume to an internal HFS+ volume.


The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire
Re: High Sierra Beta
artie505 #46509 09/30/17 01:16 PM
Joined: Aug 2009
Likes: 16
Moderator
OP Online
Moderator

Joined: Aug 2009
Likes: 16
Sorry guys you are already behind the release cycle. I installed MacOS 10.13.1 beta this morning. Unfortunately the release notes are apparently no yet available so I have no idea what is new or improved, just that it installed without a hitch and is running smoothly.


If we knew what it was we were doing, it wouldn't be called research, would it?

— Albert Einstein
Re: High Sierra Beta
joemikeb #46510 09/30/17 02:24 PM
Joined: Aug 2009
Likes: 7
Online

Joined: Aug 2009
Likes: 7
May I assume that you did not have Artie's issue of disappearing passwords and keychain?


Jon

macOS 11.7.10, iMac Retina 5K 27-inch, late 2014, 3.5 GHz Intel Core i5, 1 TB fusion drive, 16 GB RAM, Epson SureColor P600, Photoshop CC, Lightroom CC, MS Office 365
Re: High Sierra Beta
artie505 #46512 09/30/17 02:38 PM
Joined: Aug 2009
Offline

Joined: Aug 2009
According to Apple's Note (1st paragraph's reference is convoluted, but makes the point) Prepare for APFS in High Sierra, APFS is said to be the default format for internal SSD drives and one can not opt out of the conversion. ...So, it would seem this may be what's defeating your effort to clone your external, HFS+ HS back to your internal SSD.


MacStudio M1max - 14.4.1, 64 GB Ram, 4TB SSD; Studio Display; iPhone 13mini; Watch 9; iPadPro (M2) 11" WiFi
Re: High Sierra Beta
jchuzi #46514 09/30/17 02:52 PM
Joined: Aug 2009
Likes: 16
Moderator
OP Online
Moderator

Joined: Aug 2009
Likes: 16
Originally Posted By: jchuzi
May I assume that you did not have Artie's issue of disappearing passwords and keychain?

Not a bit of it in any of the numerous almost bi-weekly beta updates or in upgrading my wife's computer or our server.

FULL DISCLOSURE: My results may be colored by the fact my Keychain and Safari settings, autofill data, even my Desktop and Documents folders are on iCloud and shared by my MacBook Pro, iPhone, and iPad. It is possible those could be lost of overwritten in an upgrade or update, but I would never notice it because they would immediately be available and restored from iCloud as soon as I entered my Apple ID and password. (You wouldn't believe how easy that makes it to recover after a "nuke and pave" upgrade/update, disaster, or setting up a new device. The only thing missing are third party and app-store apps.)


If we knew what it was we were doing, it wouldn't be called research, would it?

— Albert Einstein
Re: High Sierra Beta
joemikeb #46520 09/30/17 03:55 PM
Joined: Aug 2009
Likes: 7
Online

Joined: Aug 2009
Likes: 7
I have three clones and a Time Machine backup. If necessary, could I recover from them instead of an iCloud backup (which I don't have)?


Jon

macOS 11.7.10, iMac Retina 5K 27-inch, late 2014, 3.5 GHz Intel Core i5, 1 TB fusion drive, 16 GB RAM, Epson SureColor P600, Photoshop CC, Lightroom CC, MS Office 365
Re: High Sierra Beta
jchuzi #46522 09/30/17 04:08 PM
Joined: Aug 2009
Likes: 16
Moderator
OP Online
Moderator

Joined: Aug 2009
Likes: 16
If by
Originally Posted By: jchuzi
could I recover from them
you mean could you run Migration Assistant against them the answer is yes. I would recommend installing fresh copies of the apps however, because of potential compatibility issues. For example an incompatible version of SoftRAID rendered my system un-bootable by causing immediate Kernel Panics every time I attempted to boot the system.


If we knew what it was we were doing, it wouldn't be called research, would it?

— Albert Einstein
Re: High Sierra Beta
pbGuy #46523 09/30/17 04:10 PM
Joined: Aug 2009
Likes: 15
Online

Joined: Aug 2009
Likes: 15
Originally Posted By: pbGuy
According to Apple's Note (1st paragraph's reference is convoluted, but makes the point) Prepare for APFS in High Sierra, APFS is said to be the default format for internal SSD drives and one can not opt out of the conversion. ...So, it would seem this may be what's defeating your effort to clone your external, HFS+ HS back to your internal SSD.

APFS is the default, can't opt out of, format for High Sierra installed directly onto internal SSDs, but HS on an internal SSD is not required to be APFS at the moment, although that may (will probably?) change down the road.

I had no problems installing HS on my internal SSD as HFS+, my only critical problem was with its Keychain Access component.


The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire
Re: High Sierra Beta
artie505 #46575 10/07/17 07:52 AM
Joined: Aug 2009
Likes: 15
Online

Joined: Aug 2009
Likes: 15
Update: I just installed the macOS 10.13 Supplemental update and re-migrated my user account, but with no improvement in the Keychain Access situation.

I forgot to mention at the outset that my login items weren't perpetuated when I upgraded, nor did System Preferences > Users & Groups > Login Items respond to the appropriate check-boxes, and the update didn't fix that either.


The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire
Re: High Sierra Beta
artie505 #46581 10/07/17 06:21 PM
Joined: Aug 2009
Likes: 16
Moderator
OP Online
Moderator

Joined: Aug 2009
Likes: 16
Artie I have come to believe you either do not hold your mouth right or there is a little black cloud over your head tat follows you from computer device to computer device?
shocked confused wink

I have upgraded and updated two non-beta computers around here to High Sierra and I have several friends and relatives who have done the same and there have been no problems with Keychain, Keychain Access, or Login Items — with one exception. A friend had one login item that did not transfer. It turned out the associated app was not compatible with High Sierra. One possible difference, as far as I know all of these different computes were linked to Keychain on iCloud, certainly all the ones here are. Whether that has anything to do with anything or not

🤷‍♂️



If we knew what it was we were doing, it wouldn't be called research, would it?

— Albert Einstein
Re: High Sierra Beta
joemikeb #46585 10/08/17 05:30 AM
Joined: Aug 2009
Likes: 15
Online

Joined: Aug 2009
Likes: 15
Just call me Joe.

(Or refer to my avatar. grin )

I wonder... Are the keychain passwords on all those other Macs the same as their login passwords, or do they differ as mine does?


The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire
Re: High Sierra Beta
artie505 #46586 10/08/17 11:47 AM
Joined: Aug 2009
Likes: 16
Moderator
OP Online
Moderator

Joined: Aug 2009
Likes: 16
Originally Posted By: artie505
I wonder... Are the keychain passwords on all those other Macs the same as their login passwords, or do they differ as mine does?
They are all the same.


If we knew what it was we were doing, it wouldn't be called research, would it?

— Albert Einstein
Re: High Sierra Beta
joemikeb #46632 10/15/17 09:44 AM
Joined: Aug 2009
Likes: 15
Online

Joined: Aug 2009
Likes: 15
Originally Posted By: joemikeb
Originally Posted By: artie505
I wonder... Are the keychain passwords on all those other Macs the same as their login passwords, or do they differ as mine does?
They are all the same.

Well, that called for an experiment, so I
  • made my keychain password the same as my login password in my Sierra boot account,
  • booted into High Sierra,
  • used migration assistant to import the changed Sierra boot account,
  • logged in to the newly imported account,
  • and VOILA! There, just like magic, was my complete keychain.
Bug identified and reported...ball's in Apple's court..

More: Oops! Although I logged out and back in with no issues, I forgot to restart to see if things remained copacetic, and I also forgot to make my keychain and login passwords different and see if things remained copacetic after a restart...and I've erased the volume.

Oh, well, another project.

Sidenote: The first time I logged in to the newly imported account, all my login items launched as expected, but when I logged out and back in they didn't launch and were gone from System Prefs > Users & Groups > Login Items.

Bug reported to Apple

Last edited by artie505; 10/15/17 02:03 PM.

The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire
Re: High Sierra Beta
artie505 #46638 10/15/17 10:35 PM
Joined: Aug 2009
Likes: 15
Online

Joined: Aug 2009
Likes: 15
Well, I just did a clean install of High Sierra and migrated my data from my boot Sierra volume after changing my keychain password to match my login password, and all was good...for about 5 minutes: my keychain was populated, and my login items launched as expected.

I then changed my keychain password so it differed from my login password, shut down, started up, and although my login items launched, my keychain was depopulated. frown

Keychain Access in High Sierra is pretty clearly choking on the differing login and keychain passwords, but I've got no idea what's up or, as the case may be, not up with login items.


The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire
Re: High Sierra Beta
artie505 #46760 11/01/17 08:18 PM
Joined: Aug 2009
Likes: 15
Online

Joined: Aug 2009
Likes: 15
Just did a clean install of 10.13.1, and it appears to have been worked on, but although my different keychain password was perpetuated this time around, my keychain was again unpopulated.

Also, my auto-login pref somehow got changed, and I had to enter a password to log in.

frown

Feedback sent to Apple.


The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire
Re: High Sierra Beta
artie505 #46761 11/01/17 09:33 PM
Joined: Aug 2009
Likes: 16
Moderator
OP Online
Moderator

Joined: Aug 2009
Likes: 16
Artie I wonder if you are running into one of the new security provisions built into MacOS 10.13 and iOS 11? Perhaps one we are not cognizant of or one we do not yet fully comprehend all of its implications?

Just to be sure I am following correctly
  • When you say, "my keychain", are you referring to the Login, iCloud, or System keychain?
  • Do you have iCloud Keychain activated?


If we knew what it was we were doing, it wouldn't be called research, would it?

— Albert Einstein
Re: High Sierra Beta
joemikeb #46763 11/01/17 10:41 PM
Joined: Aug 2009
Likes: 15
Online

Joined: Aug 2009
Likes: 15
By "my keychain", I mean my login keychain. (My System keychain remains locked after I've unlocked my login keychain.)

I haven't got iCloud activated.

I'm leaving my hat hung on "bug", because it appears that Apple has actually been working on the problem.

Also, the ability to have different login and login keychain passwords is a pretty powerful and useful security feature, and I can't imagine Apple breaking it as part of a new security scheme. Well, on the other hand.... confused crazy


The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire
Re: High Sierra Beta
artie505 #46764 11/01/17 10:51 PM
Joined: Aug 2009
Likes: 7
Online

Joined: Aug 2009
Likes: 7
Originally Posted By: artie505

Also, my auto-login pref somehow got changed, and I had to enter a password to log in.

Although I haven't yet upgraded to High Sierra, I have noticed that software updates that require a restart in Sierra make me enter my password after the update is completed. Subsequent restarts do not (my preferences are also set for automatic login).

Did you restart after this? What happened?


Jon

macOS 11.7.10, iMac Retina 5K 27-inch, late 2014, 3.5 GHz Intel Core i5, 1 TB fusion drive, 16 GB RAM, Epson SureColor P600, Photoshop CC, Lightroom CC, MS Office 365
Re: High Sierra Beta
jchuzi #46765 11/01/17 10:56 PM
Joined: Aug 2009
Likes: 15
Online

Joined: Aug 2009
Likes: 15
I threw in the towel instantly...couldn't see any reason to try a restart, but this was my third or fourth High Sierra clean install, and it's the first time I was asked to enter my password when starting up.

It's actually the first time I've EVER been asked to enter my password when starting up since I set the pref about a million years ago.


The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire
Re: High Sierra Beta
artie505 #46778 11/02/17 08:51 PM
Joined: Aug 2009
Likes: 8
Online

Joined: Aug 2009
Likes: 8
Originally Posted By: artie505
I threw in the towel instantly...couldn't see any reason to try a restart, but this was my third or fourth High Sierra clean install, and it's the first time I was asked to enter my password when starting up.

It's actually the first time I've EVER been asked to enter my password when starting up since I set the pref about a million years ago.


Yeah, about 875,000 years ago things changed. wink

I was asked for my password too, upon restart, but I don't think I am asked every time, but have been in the last 875,000 years. It may have to do with the type of update that is applied. This last one included security updates, so maybe that's the difference this time.


On a Mac since 1984.
Currently: 24" M1 iMac, M2 Pro Mac mini with 27" BenQ monitor, M2 Macbook Air, MacOS 14.x; iPhones, iPods (yes, still) and iPads.
Re: High Sierra Beta
artie505 #47177 12/08/17 09:19 AM
Joined: Aug 2009
Likes: 15
Online

Joined: Aug 2009
Likes: 15
I d/l'ed and installed High Sierra 10.13.2, and once again, my keychain password wasn't perpetuated nor was my keychain populated.

A few other posters elsewhere have run into similar or the same issues.

I may never run High Sierra! frown (I guess?)

Feedback sent to Apple.

Oh, and this is new: Migration Assistant made me select passwords for each admin account I wanted to migrate before it would complete migration.

Last edited by artie505; 12/08/17 10:20 AM.

The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire
Keychain Password
artie505 #47189 12/09/17 05:04 PM
Joined: Aug 2009
Offline

Joined: Aug 2009
Originally Posted By: artie505
I d/l'ed and installed High Sierra 10.13.2, and once again, my keychain password wasn't perpetuated nor was my keychain populated....


See this 7/24/17  Support Doc Keychain for Mac . This Apple Support doc advises by default, Login password & Keychain for Mac password is (should be) the same.

I guess the Support Doc begs the question "why persist attempting to have Keychain for Mac & Login passwords be different?" when the macOS default is they're the same password. ...And, Keychain works as expected when this macOS default is being used.

BTW, by asking, I'm simply curious to understand (from perspective of having Current User account having Admin privileges) why having different passwords is so important to persist in overriding the macOS default. ...It seems there's a perception of higher security level (if that's the objective) when these passwords are different. If one's Login password could be easily compromised, additionally allowing access to Keychain, it would seem a stronger, Login password would mollify this security concern. ...Am I misunderstanding your objective?


MacStudio M1max - 14.4.1, 64 GB Ram, 4TB SSD; Studio Display; iPhone 13mini; Watch 9; iPadPro (M2) 11" WiFi
Page 3 of 7 1 2 3 4 5 6 7

Moderated by  alternaut, cyn 

Link Copied to Clipboard
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.4
(Release build 20200307)
Responsive Width:

PHP: 7.4.33 Page Time: 0.041s Queries: 65 (0.031s) Memory: 0.7170 MB (Peak: 0.8984 MB) Data Comp: Zlib Server Time: 2024-03-28 18:50:21 UTC
Valid HTML 5 and Valid CSS