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#46480 - 09/29/17 12:43 AM High Sierra not an option in Startup Disk
freelance Offline


Registered: 08/05/09
Loc: London, UK
I run a drive that always has the latest OS, but still use Yosemite as my main system. I found that in High Sierra, all my systems (Yosemite and Snow Leopard) are offered as startup options. However, in Yosemite, the High Sierra drive is not shown at all. In fact, that drive will not even appear in the Finder window side bar. All other drives are there, including the old Sierra backup.

I read something about a new system file arrangement in High Sierra. Is that what my problem is? The old file system won't acknowledge the new?

I can choose to boot in High Sierra when I start up using the Alt key, so the world hasn't come to an end. It's just a bit of a nuisance.
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Mac Pro dual-2.4 GHz, 10.13.6, 24 Gb RAM, 250 Gb Samsung EVO SSD/Velocity Solo PCIe card, 2x3Tb Seagate HD, 1x3Tb Hitachi HD, Dell 2408WFP; Canon PIXMA iX6550; CanoScan 8800F; MacBook Air 1.8 Ghz, 8 Gb RAM, 10.14.1, 256 Gb SSD; BT Home Hub 6/Wi-Fi Extender.

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#46481 - 09/29/17 01:00 AM Re: High Sierra not an option in Startup Disk [Re: freelance]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Yosemite doesn't know about Apple's new APFS file system, so it doesn't recognize the volume's existence; I don't think it will appear in Disk Utility either if oyu look.

You can get around this by installing High Sierra to any external drive - HDD or SSD - formatted HFS+, in which case HS, itself, will be HFS+ and will be visible, but installing HS to an internal SSD results in its - by default...no options - changing your HFS+ volume to an APFS volume.

And if that's incomprehensible, please ask for clarification. tongue

More: Alternatively, if you install HS on an external drive as HFS+ you can then clone it to a HFS+ volume on your internal, even if it's a SSD. (Carbon Copy Cloner 4 can do it but CAN'T make it bootable; 5 can do the entire job. I don't know about SuperDuper!.)


Edited by artie505 (09/29/17 03:21 AM)
Edit Reason: More
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#46497 - 09/29/17 02:57 PM Re: High Sierra not an option in Startup Disk [Re: artie505]
freelance Offline


Registered: 08/05/09
Loc: London, UK
Thank you. I'll have to look into this. Would all of my previous system installs been
to a HFS+ formatted drive by default? GUID?

The HS system is on a partitioned drive. Disk Utility sees the first partition correctly as Snow Leopard, and sees the second (HS) generic partition, but does not recognize a system on it, as you say.

Would not that partitioned drive have been HFS+?
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Mac Pro dual-2.4 GHz, 10.13.6, 24 Gb RAM, 250 Gb Samsung EVO SSD/Velocity Solo PCIe card, 2x3Tb Seagate HD, 1x3Tb Hitachi HD, Dell 2408WFP; Canon PIXMA iX6550; CanoScan 8800F; MacBook Air 1.8 Ghz, 8 Gb RAM, 10.14.1, 256 Gb SSD; BT Home Hub 6/Wi-Fi Extender.

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#46506 - 09/30/17 01:11 AM Re: High Sierra not an option in Startup Disk [Re: freelance]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Presumably, your drive is formatted GUID, and its partitions, on an individual basis, are/were formatted HFS+, but installing High Sierra on an internal SSD automatically changes the partition it's on to APFS. (You can check you formatting by individually selecting your drive and partitions in Disk Utility and hitting command-I.)

Code:
diskutil list

may also be informative.
_________________________
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

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#46529 - 09/30/17 02:15 PM Re: High Sierra not an option in Startup Disk [Re: artie505]
freelance Offline


Registered: 08/05/09
Loc: London, UK
Thanks for your help. I used CCC5 to clone the new High Sierra drive to the old Sierra backup. Then, I erased the SSD High Sierra partition using the Mac Journaled setting. Next, I cloned the High Sierra from the backup, back to the SSD partition.

It now shows up in Yosemite's Startup Disk preference pane. I'll be curious to see what happens to the partition after the 10.13.1 update.
_________________________
Mac Pro dual-2.4 GHz, 10.13.6, 24 Gb RAM, 250 Gb Samsung EVO SSD/Velocity Solo PCIe card, 2x3Tb Seagate HD, 1x3Tb Hitachi HD, Dell 2408WFP; Canon PIXMA iX6550; CanoScan 8800F; MacBook Air 1.8 Ghz, 8 Gb RAM, 10.14.1, 256 Gb SSD; BT Home Hub 6/Wi-Fi Extender.

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#46531 - 09/30/17 02:44 PM Re: High Sierra not an option in Startup Disk [Re: freelance]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: freelance
Thanks for your help.

I'll be curious to see what happens to the partition after the 10.13.1 update.

Happy to have helped. (Keychain Access kept losing my user IDs and passwords, so I'm back in Sierra.)

Question: Did your HS APFS change to HFS+ on its own when you cloned from your internal SSD to your external drive?

Answer: Since cloning can't change the format of a volume, it must have changed on its own.

Good point about the update; it hadn't occurred to me.

I decided to stay with HFS+ for a while to give the bad guys a window of opportunity without being at risk, but I'd still like to upgrade when the Keychain Access bug is squashed. If it's going to mean maintaining an HFS+ installation on my external drive and jumping through a hoop to maintain the format on my internal, though, I may bite the bullet. (You can change HFS+ to APFS from High Sierra's Recovery Drive, but I don't know if the reverse is possible, particularly on an internal SSD.)


Edited by artie505 (09/30/17 06:08 PM)
Edit Reason: Q & A
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The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

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#46534 - 10/01/17 12:57 AM Re: High Sierra not an option in Startup Disk [Re: artie505]
freelance Offline


Registered: 08/05/09
Loc: London, UK
Quote:
Question: Did your HS APFS change to HFS+ on its own when you cloned from your internal SSD to your external drive?

I'm guessing it changed when I did the volume erase from Yosemite, choosing Mac OS Extended [Journaled] from the Format selector. The changed volume showed up in the Disk Utility sidebar and the Finder sidebar before I copied across the clone.
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Mac Pro dual-2.4 GHz, 10.13.6, 24 Gb RAM, 250 Gb Samsung EVO SSD/Velocity Solo PCIe card, 2x3Tb Seagate HD, 1x3Tb Hitachi HD, Dell 2408WFP; Canon PIXMA iX6550; CanoScan 8800F; MacBook Air 1.8 Ghz, 8 Gb RAM, 10.14.1, 256 Gb SSD; BT Home Hub 6/Wi-Fi Extender.

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#46535 - 10/01/17 01:08 AM Re: High Sierra not an option in Startup Disk [Re: freelance]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Yep, that's it.

As I said, a cloning operation can change the file format, but it can't change the volume format, so cloning an APFS volume to a HFS+ volume will change the APFS to HFS+.

Now let's see what happens to your partition when you install 10.13.1.
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The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

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